Jalis Brainstorming - Would You Change It?

Jalis Brainstorming - Would You Change It?

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Posted by: Deified.7520

Deified.7520

Today I’d like to start a discussion about the Legendary Dwarf Stance.

In your opinion, what is the current state of this legend? Is it in a good or bad state? What roles do you view this legend as filling or should be filling?

If you think it is in a good state, where does it excel? How do you use it to get the most bang for your buck (or energy in this case).

If you think it is in a bad state, what needs to be changed? What are some of your ideas for “fixing” it?

Finally, what gamemode do you mainly play?

(edited by Deified.7520)

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Posted by: Vennyhedgie.5369

Vennyhedgie.5369

I like jalis a lot, I just want the hammers not to despawn when they colide with grass. Like seriously that’s the only real problem with that legend.

I use Jalis when paired with the lifesteal traits when using condi builds and it’s great sustain when you can keep the hammers up, lots of small packets of damage and healing end up adding up.
Road + mace 3 is 20 secs of swiftness if timed properly, and even when it’s not it’s still 10 seconds (+5 if you have a certain invocation skill) so it’s already 100% uptime.

And when traited it offers great defensive skills as well as a ver powerful defiance bar breaker with increased taunt duration. Forceful engagement is one of the best soft cc skills with taunt+slow, and it’s hilarious to use in wvw to force people out of zergs lol

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Posted by: Thermaltron.6829

Thermaltron.6829

Forced Engagement:

1200 range with a 2 second taunt. I was wondering if a flip over skill could be added which when activated would launch your taunted target towards you. Energy cost and cool down to balance.

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Posted by: Deified.7520

Deified.7520

I like jalis a lot, I just want the hammers not to despawn when they colide with grass. Like seriously that’s the only real problem with that legend.

I use Jalis when paired with the lifesteal traits when using condi builds and it’s great sustain when you can keep the hammers up, lots of small packets of damage and healing end up adding up.
Road + mace 3 is 20 secs of swiftness if timed properly, and even when it’s not it’s still 10 seconds (+5 if you have a certain invocation skill) so it’s already 100% uptime.

And when traited it offers great defensive skills as well as a ver powerful defiance bar breaker with increased taunt duration. Forceful engagement is one of the best soft cc skills with taunt+slow, and it’s hilarious to use in wvw to force people out of zergs lol

Is this for WvW? I’ve always seen people get chastised for using Jalis in PvP. Never really considered the lifesteal applications of it though.

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Posted by: InsaneQR.7412

InsaneQR.7412

Force engagement:
AoE taunt and block for some seconds. Would give it more area effects and a more useful place in pvp.

Pale Raiders united.
9 Sylvari, 9 unique Builds.

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Posted by: Vennyhedgie.5369

Vennyhedgie.5369

I like jalis a lot, I just want the hammers not to despawn when they colide with grass. Like seriously that’s the only real problem with that legend.

I use Jalis when paired with the lifesteal traits when using condi builds and it’s great sustain when you can keep the hammers up, lots of small packets of damage and healing end up adding up.
Road + mace 3 is 20 secs of swiftness if timed properly, and even when it’s not it’s still 10 seconds (+5 if you have a certain invocation skill) so it’s already 100% uptime.

And when traited it offers great defensive skills as well as a ver powerful defiance bar breaker with increased taunt duration. Forceful engagement is one of the best soft cc skills with taunt+slow, and it’s hilarious to use in wvw to force people out of zergs lol

Is this for WvW? I’ve always seen people get chastised for using Jalis in PvP. Never really considered the lifesteal applications of it though.

Mix of PvE and WvW, I don’t PvP.
I’ve been running what is now the pve meta build of condi mallyx/jalis since the beta, even when people prefered to go zerker shiro/glint

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

  • Move the stunbreak to Inspiring Reinforcement. Or generally somewhere else than Elite.
  • Change Vengeful Hammers to be an aura and make hammers purely visual. Currently they behave “physical” causing problems with terrain collision. They don’t need that – nobody is going to be dodging them anyway.
  • Hard truth is, functioning defensive builds have access to more invunlnerabilities, evades, blocks. Just look at Glint – it’s the better defensive Legend than Jalis just because of the heal skill. Sneaking in some of that would come with a cost, but may be necessary if we want Jalis to be the defensive Legend.
  • Alternatively, Jalis could lean more towards bruiser, with stronger emphasis on retaliatory abilities, more access to Retaliation and better self-heal.
  • Maybe it’s just me, but I would like to see Forced Engagement be basically Pudge’s/Stitches’ hook, along with the ability to hook allies away from danger.
[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144

(edited by Rym.1469)

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Posted by: Kahrgan.7401

Kahrgan.7401

All around:

Less energy costs
Road would spawn in front of you, instead of reticle activated.

Traits:
Holy kitten what a mess.

Don’t call anyone out on their BS, that’s an infraction and a deleted post. —Anet.

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Posted by: Vennyhedgie.5369

Vennyhedgie.5369

Oh yeah also, I would like to see Jalis, y’know, the guy who was designed to be a tank, to be an actual tank.

>Taunt mechanic is introduced
>Doesn’t work in raids

gg anet you had one job

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Posted by: tuvok.7806

tuvok.7806

First, I would fix the health bug of Vengeful hammers healing for 2-4 hp instead of what the tooltip says. I’d like to see the hammers disappearing on ramps/walls fixed though I have no solution other than to at least stop draining energy when it does bug out. It sometimes stops, sometimes doesn’t.

I would reduce the energy cost of ROTGD to 40, move the stunbreak to Inspiring Reinforcement.

Honestly, the main issue I have with Jalis is not so much the legend, but Retribution. It doesn’t do anything positive for the legend except allow you to die a bit slower if that at all. If you want Jalis to do what it’s design to do(tank), you’re actually better off speccing Devastation to get the life siphon procs. Steadfast rejuvenation is laughably weak. For a Grandmaster, it’s ICD needs to reduced to 2 secs in order for it to even compete with Focused Siphoning. If Improved Aggression worked in PvP/WvW, I’d actually spend the energy to use it.

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Posted by: Rashagar.8349

Rashagar.8349

It’s been a while since I’ve slotted it but I think the main thing I wished was different was for more retaliation.

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Posted by: Jarettellis.7813

Jarettellis.7813

I’d rework it from the ground up.
(Apology in advance for wall of text)
Traits
Adept: stone flesh: gain a 5% physical and condition damage reduction.
Close quarters: stays same.
Improved aggression: Taunted foes deal less damage to you. Forced engagement now affects in an aoe of your target.
Planer Protection: stays same. 15-25% chance of the field applying in an aoe (to give fall traits more application)

Major: unwavering avoidance: gain two stacks of stab and retaliation (8 seconds) (to deal with the 8 sec cooldown)

Eye for an eye: stays same, it just reflects the damage back that the Stun/etc did to you (more of a real “eye for an eye”)
Dwarven battle training: ignore weakness, and all immobilized, cripple, chill, and slow expires 33% faster
Great Dwarf’s Anvil: tempered by the great dwarf, stone flesh is doubled to 10% damage reduction.

Grandmaster: King’s Presence: when struck in combat you and allies gain a stacking buff of toughness (up to 100 toughness) and enemies gain 2 stacks of vulnerability (up to 10 stacks of vulnerability ).Stacks 5 times.

King’s Voice: at max stacks, King’s presence now causes an aoe taunt. Resets king’s presence to 0 (20 sec cool down on the taunt)
Versed in Stone: Rite of the Great Dwarf now applies to user and those around you. (Allies only gain 10% DMG reduction since RotGD is now an upkeep skill)
Steadfast Rejuvenation: gain health every second when affected by stability.

Skills:
Heal: same
Forced Engagement: same. Just improves projectile speed.
Vengeful hammers: same. (Had an idea of it summoning 5 dwarf ghosts to surround you and attack in an aoe around you. They are indestructible and are not affected by terrain) upkeep skill.
Inspiring reinforcements: appears where you face. Also grants allies a 3 second instance of Dwarven Battle Training (does not stack). You hear “For deldrimor” as the road is created.
Version 2 of it: Pulse Stability (1 stack) every 3 seconds for 15 seconds.

Elite: Rite of the Great Dwarf: now an upkeep skill: Damage reduction is reduced to 10-25% since its an upkeep) Also breaks stun on activation. (A 30 second cool down though)

Some might be a little too strong. But if we are going to have defensive tank line, let’s do it right.

Vikings with Attitude (Zerk)

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Posted by: Garr.1823

Garr.1823

0 stun breaks (there is 1, on ulti and will cost you 50 energy…)
heal affected by poison (will remove poison AFTER the heal)

so, while this stance got taunt and stability… it’s PvE only stance at the same time

heal should be fixed
next – one of utility skills should be also a stun breaker
price of stability (Inspiring Reinforcement) should be lowered – 35 energy is too much

maybe that will make this stance little bit better..

P.S.: I just checked PvP anbd PvE versions of some skills – they are much better in PvP version, maybe PvP versions should also work in WvW?

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Posted by: otto.5684

otto.5684

Jails is actually good if the utility costs are dropped significantly. As it currently stands, the cost are way too high for what they do (with the exception of the hammers) and the stability has to change from the stupid to being like an AOE shout.

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Posted by: Varyla.1592

Varyla.1592

Hi,

My opinion is that Jalis is a quite better since 2 paches (2 monthes approximatively). I talk about sPvP as it is what I mainly play. I actually don’t play it with Punition trait line but with devastation. I don’t know now with the patch. Last days, I played a Ventari / jalis build which was more efficient and fun as the current meta in my hands. I would never say it is the new meta, but it is clearly a viable and interesting option in terms of tankiness and support.

Paired with lifesteal, VH gives nice sustain, and I guess more since the 08/08 patch. I think the stunbreak should be moved; where i don’t know. But on the elite, it is clunky to use. On IR or on Taunt, it would be good.

I haven’t tested yet VM since the 08/08 patch which seems to fix them.

I have not tested yet the new trait on taunt but it is very interesting.

I think that stability works well. I don’t want a shout as we would lose the combo zone, which is usefull for swiftness (otherwise you are toooo slow between points). With Enhanced Bullwark, it is very powerful. I would not like a nobrain shout that would give AoE stability without even targeting anything. I like when skill is required.

I haven’t tested yet if Jalis Healing cleans poison before getting healed or not, but it is a very important point. In pvp, a base 5s retaliation rather than 3s/condi cleared may be a nerf, it will depend of what builds will emerge (we could get more with 3 condi cleared and that happen a lot).

I think that RotgD should reduce both condi and direct damage even if not traited, but at a lower amount (e.g. : -30% each). If traited, get the free application on 50% health, and get the bonuses increased to -50%. Another option would be to make it only for the revenant if not traited, the trait allowing you to share it with your mates and get the free application. I like when traits are not just “buffs”, but when they change the playstyle.

I would dream of a Jalis revenant with protection traits. I think of a trait that gives protection you apply reduce condi damages. This would fit the theme. Direct and condi damage reduction is a unique and revenant specific way to play support in this game.

I would tolerate a slight nerf if they reduced a bit energy cost, yeah. Jalis is the only legend where energy management is that much crucial.