Guild Wars 2

So many skills in this game use the charge when an attack is missed. Bassy venom and all venoms in general are a good example. Sigils however cannot miss but can be blocked.

Now inserted enchanted daggers. Enchanted dagger charges cannot be blocked. The charge is not consumed. If you evade the attack, the charge is not consumed. If you prevent damage, life siphon still occurs.
Yesterday, two revenants jumped me on a node, so I immediately popped endure pain in response. Because they were both with enchanted daggers up and using unrelenting assault, I lost 10k hp in lifesteal (~850×6×2). In an unavoidable manner. And, one of my major cooldowns is rendered useless.
Obviously, if I did not pop endure pain, I would have taken enough damage to be one shot. I was not expecting to win this 1v2, but I did not think I would lose over half my hp while in endure pain.

Now let’s look at this, I could have shield blocked the two UAs. But the enchanted dagger charges would still be there. Or even dodge rolled and the issue is still there, as the following attacks would have just stolen the health.

So the point is that ED is guaranteed damage that does not miss. Since when is anything supposed to be a given in pvp? It should follow venoms, or conjure weapon charges, or even burst skill adrenaline. Miss and its gone.

TLDR: charges should be consumed on blind, block, or evaded attacks.

Well… the issue is a non-issue… Endure pain don’t prevent lifesteal damage, endure pain only prevent direct damage.

I think this is a reasonable nerf. Though its reflectable nature could be removed for compensation. As for the lifesteal working through endure pain and signet of stone, I dont think its a huge issue, and probably a hard one to fix.

Endure pain and signet of stone are such lame defensive skills they deserve to get wrecked by life steal.

Consuming charges on miss would do much to destroy the legend… It would be almost as worthless as the others.

Dadnir.5038:

Well… the issue is a non-issue… Endure pain don’t prevent lifesteal damage, endure pain only prevent direct damage.

Lifesteal is fine. I don’t care so much about that damage.

But having damage that can’t miss is the issue. That’s all I care about. If I dodgewhen you have the daggers up, I should be rewarded and you should be punished for missing attacks.

This has irked me since the class came out. Its a poor design. Easy comparison is adrenaline consumed on everything. Even the old style put it on a cooldown.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Dadnir.5038:

Well… the issue is a non-issue… Endure pain don’t prevent lifesteal damage, endure pain only prevent direct damage.

Lifesteal is fine. I don’t care so much about that damage.

But having damage that can’t miss is the issue. That’s all I care about. If I dodgewhen you have the daggers up, I should be rewarded and you should be punished for missing attacks.

This has irked me since the class came out. Its a poor design. Easy comparison is adrenaline consumed on everything. Even the old style put it on a cooldown.

You are forgetting the fact that Enchanted Daggers is a healing skill and with the meta revenant build we actually have 2 of the worst heals out there against competent players. The initial heal of glint is 1.8k and the initial heal of shiro is 1.5k. Enchanted Daggers duration is 15 seconds and even though the lifesteal cannot be countered with defensive skills you can counter it by being offensive. There are stuns, roots, dazes and as a warrior you have alot of those. Glint heal can be countered even easier, just don’t hit them while they have it active. You are not playing a bunker so should you be able to live 1v2 regardless of the opposing classes? No. I can see the concern if enchanted daggers was an utility skill then it would be overpowered. But as a healing skill, I think it’s fine.

When you put it that way, it would indeed hurt the sustain. I still think unavoidable things like this are bad design so I’d be ok with a change. Though if it is nerfed, it would require compensation of some sort (CD, numbers or unblockable).

Thieves’ venoms are consumed whether hit or miss, so why not enchanted daggers too? Thieves have the same kind of healing skill too. Rev has plenty of sustain; medium health base, high armor base, access to protection, stability, plenty of blocks, dodges. This is a reasonable nerf, and in PvP revenant is top tier after all.

Egnineer FT f-skill is consumed on miss,block and dodge, so why shouldnt this

i agree it should be consume on dodge i see no reason it should not be. i mean what difference make to the rev just means he has to watch when he attacks over spaming keys out.

Stop your whining it’s legit and fair~

The other professions have other means to heal you have a bunch of skills to choose from that does decent healing, REV does not, you literally have 4 and the base heal on majority of them is kitten, and they work on Energy management a system the other profession does not and to put on top of that they have CD just like any other class, so I say it’s fair. ONCE the other class have to deal with energy management then you can bring them into the argument but no they only have to deal with CD when a Rev have to deal with both energy and CD.

1. its legit and fair

2. daggers are bugged like kitten, staff 5 only uses 1 dagger while staff hits you up to 9 times. stop crying.

Are you high or smth? ED can be blinded, blocked, evaded, obstructed, deflected, reflected. You can even LoS it or ktie for the duration.. What tf you talk about? Git gut.

People referencing the thief venom heal seem to forget the huge difference in initial healing between the two. I believe it’s at least 3x the amount of ED? (Don’t quote me)

CutesySylveon.8290:

People referencing the thief venom heal seem to forget the huge difference in initial healing between the two. I believe it’s at least 3x the amount of ED? (Don’t quote me)

You’re correct~plus the duration is twice as long, and SV is only 10secs longer on CD…FAIR MUCH? I THINK NOT! But anywho to everyone complaining, they’re just complaining just cause they like to whine when they get mauled by someone…Rev that runs Shiro literally have 1 legitimate combo that can be waited out and counter by most ppl…once their sword 3 is gone and staff 5…they’re pretty much useless in terms of burst and not to mention most Rev pretty much run the same thing in pvp for the most part, so if you don’t know how to counter it by now then you need to stop playing pvp in general LOL it’s really obv when they’re going to burst you down with their combo….the moment you see ED and the animation for sw3 you should be backing up or getting rdy to evade, or just enter stealth/block also they will most likely start off with sw2 for the most effectiveness and if you group up with your team members they don’t even have a legitimate burst anymore and if you’re playing a ranger and you’re losing to a rev then just pure shame on you LOL same with a typical mes.

ED:
Damage.png Siphon Damage: 858 (0.05)?
Healing.png Siphon Healing: 808 (0.2)?
Healing.png Initial Heal: 1,640 (0.25)?
Miscellaneous effect.png Number of Hits: 6
Duration.png Duration: 15s
Radius.png Interval: ½s
Range.png Range: 1,200

SV:
Healing.png Initial Self Heal: 4,210 (0.75)?
Healing.png Healing: 965 (0.3)?
Skelk Venom.png5 Skelk Venom (30s): Striking an enemy heals you.
Miscellaneous effect.png Number of Targets: 5
Miscellaneous effect.png Number of Attacks: 5
Duration.png Venom Duration: 30s
Radius.png Radius: 240

Here’s an alternative viewpoint.
There is now a direct counter to an instant cast skill (or instant cast skills) that flat negate damage, something that people have been griping about for a long time.

Yes, a lot of skills consume charges on miss, but I don’t think many of those skills are also a dedicated heal for a class. If you’re asking to make the leeching whiff on miss,block,or evade, Revenants should also have that initial heal buffed, because if I am not mistaken it is one of the lowest self-heals in the game at the moment, lower even than the healing signet active (which grants resistance mind you).

Asking for a nerf to ED without increasing its appeal or usefulness in another way would probably break Shiro.

Also, consider your context, OP. Two Revenants attacked you on point (and a 2v1 should not be balanced or come out even by any means) and the center of your complaint about ED being broken is, not that you -died- (which you should have) but that you lost half your health.

in a 2v1.
Against two heavy armors.
Two heavy armors that happened to be the -only class that can do this to you-.
And they used their heal skill to do it.

Think about it.

OP has a point, dunno what are you all smoking. If rev was rly balanced (which it isnt) and this fix would make him drop from the meta, then buff smth else. But the fact that you guys are against changing smth that its clearly bad designed+from a class that is over performing blows my mind. You can make it so missing charges doesnt do dmg but still heal you, but what we have now is clearly unfair.

Krysard.1364:

OP has a point, dunno what are you all smoking. If rev was rly balanced (which it isnt) and this fix would make him drop from the meta, then buff smth else. But the fact that you guys are against changing smth that its clearly bad designed+from a class that is over performing blows my mind. You can make it so missing charges doesnt do dmg but still heal you, but what we have now is clearly unfair.

No the op don’t a REV generally have the same predictable combo that’s very visible not only does their actual burst completely depends on ED for the most part but once its down the Rev is just an auto attack bot. ED duration isn’t even that long most class have a way to block it, if your burn you defensive skills before ed runs out then that’s on you ED is really only useful when SW 3 is up, learn how to counter them instead of complaining this is like a thread complaining about guardians trap WHICH is simple af to avoid JUST ROLL THROUGH WHERE THE GUARDIAN IS not only does it trigger the trap but you’re not effected by it, same applies for Rev the moment you see ED channels and the animation for SW3 starts get ready to hit that evade?! also if you’re standing next to another person that burst goes to kitten. If you’re nearfing the only viable thing that a rev has going for it in PvP and WvW I expect ALL of the other legends to be super buff because they all suck Ventari literally provides nothing the heal from it is meaningless, Jalis takes too much energy to be useful for the kittenty buffs it gives, Mallyx is entirely dependent on a gimmick that isn’t even that useful.

Veka.8710:

same applies for Rev the moment you see ED channels and the animation for SW3 starts get ready to hit that evade?!

The whole point of this post is that you cannot evade ED, wth are you on? You can double dodge UA if you feel like it, after that he will just PS and quickness AA you to death with the 6 ED charges. The only way to avoid ED dmg is blocking/dodging for 15s straight, pretending to do that is ridiculous. Trying to say that the only burst a rev has is ED is ridiculous. Trying to said that rev is bad without ED is ridiculous. Comparing ED with a guard trap is ridiculous. And lastly, I’ve said that im totally on for a qol change to ED with buffs to other underperforming areas, disagreeing with it is ridiculous if you actually care about rev.

Krysard.1364:

Veka.8710:

same applies for Rev the moment you see ED channels and the animation for SW3 starts get ready to hit that evade?!

The whole point of this post is that you cannot evade ED, wth are you on? You can double dodge UA if you feel like it, after that he will just PS and quickness AA you to death with the 6 ED charges. The only way to avoid ED dmg is blocking/dodging for 15s straight, pretending to do that is ridiculous. Trying to say that the only burst a rev has is ED is ridiculous. Trying to said that rev is bad without ED is ridiculous. Comparing ED with a guard trap is ridiculous. And lastly, I’ve said that im totally on for a qol change to ED with buffs to other underperforming areas, disagreeing with it is ridiculous if you actually care about rev.

You do realize it last for 15secs…and sw3 takes up a good chunk of time…and you can just run around till it’s down? NOT consuming it and playing around it is two different things, you just suck if you don’t understand that concept, lets nerf Rev only good thing going for them. I play a mesmer main and ED isn’t even that big of a deal so clearly you guys are doing something wrong because Rev drops like a fly.

Veka.8710:

Krysard.1364:

Veka.8710:

same applies for Rev the moment you see ED channels and the animation for SW3 starts get ready to hit that evade?!

The whole point of this post is that you cannot evade ED, wth are you on? You can double dodge UA if you feel like it, after that he will just PS and quickness AA you to death with the 6 ED charges. The only way to avoid ED dmg is blocking/dodging for 15s straight, pretending to do that is ridiculous. Trying to say that the only burst a rev has is ED is ridiculous. Trying to said that rev is bad without ED is ridiculous. Comparing ED with a guard trap is ridiculous. And lastly, I’ve said that im totally on for a qol change to ED with buffs to other underperforming areas, disagreeing with it is ridiculous if you actually care about rev.

You do realize it last for 15secs…and sw3 takes up a good chunk of time…and you can just run around till it’s down? NOT consuming it and playing around it is two different things, you just suck if you don’t understand that concept, lets nerf Rev only good thing going for them. I play a mesmer main and ED isn’t even that big of a deal so clearly you guys are doing something wrong because Rev drops like a fly.

So we’re supposed to run for 15s in order to play around ED? thats your idea of game design? running from the rev 50% of the time? lul

Btw, just quoting you “I counter rev, so rev is clearly balanced and doesnt need nerf”

You can reflect them back at the rev if you felt like it. If he doesn’t attack, then he’s blowing time for his charges. No one camps Shiro to keep ED up, so running from him 50% of the time is a joke. Other classes, like thief, can completely negate this heal, so your concept of ‘unfair’ is a little out of line just because what YOU play isn’t as well equipped to do so. If the OP was jumped by two condi classes, he would have died guaranteed with Endure Pain anyway.

Does the skill hurt? Yes, it’s supposed to be a dps heal, and it is, even if we don’t like it the way it is, it’s what we have to work with. The base healing is total garbage and relies on the lifesteal to do its job. It has very clear ways of being dealt with, and if it was too easy to avoid, then there’d be no use to it at all.

As a healing skill, it’s extremely unreliable and does NOTHING if you get cc locked or can’t attack for whatever reason, it gets blocked or reflected. So while you cry about it doing damage like it’s supposed to, other people are using it to heal themselves or taking advantage of the poor healing it does to force the rev on the defense so he can’t make use of it in the first place.

or maby reduce the active duration from 15 to 5-10 sec?

You cant dodge/evade/invull (endure pain etc doesnt work vs life steal) for 15 sec..
So yeah Enchanted daggers 100% hit in those 15 sec.. or the Rev have to walk away ofc.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Yes, a lot of skills consume charges on miss, but I don’t think many of those skills are also a dedicated heal for a class.

Uhm something like: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blood_Reckoning

( or what about Defiance stance and Infuse light)

CutesySylveon.8290:

As a healing skill, it’s extremely unreliable and does NOTHING if you get cc locked or can’t attack for whatever reason, it gets blocked or reflected.

so i have to CC / evade / walk away (no you cant walk away from shiro) for 15 sec?
how?

Ps if i blocked your ED then is doesnt consume your ED. only reflect maby could be a way to counter it but you can stop attacking my reflect and go on after it because well.. 15sec active time..

15sec..

CutesySylveon.8290:

You can reflect them back at the rev if you felt like it. If he doesn’t attack, then he’s blowing time for his charges. No one camps Shiro to keep ED up, so running from him 50% of the time is a joke. Other classes, like thief, can completely negate this heal, so your concept of ‘unfair’ is a little out of line just because what YOU play isn’t as well equipped to do so. If the OP was jumped by two condi classes, he would have died guaranteed with Endure Pain anyway.

Does the skill hurt? Yes, it’s supposed to be a dps heal, and it is, even if we don’t like it the way it is, it’s what we have to work with. The base healing is total garbage and relies on the lifesteal to do its job. It has very clear ways of being dealt with, and if it was too easy to avoid, then there’d be no use to it at all.

As a healing skill, it’s extremely unreliable and does NOTHING if you get cc locked or can’t attack for whatever reason, it gets blocked or reflected. So while you cry about it doing damage like it’s supposed to, other people are using it to heal themselves or taking advantage of the poor healing it does to force the rev on the defense so he can’t make use of it in the first place.

I pretty much main engineer, so reflecting ED its ez pz, which by any means changes the fact that you cant negate the damage, and so a bad design. Also, ofc no rev is going to camp shiro, I was just stating how ridiculous is the pretension of having to run from ED as someone proposed. Im not saying its broken kitten , forums are more and more dumb each day lol, nor saying i have difficulties beating revs, im just showing how badly designed this heal is

I succeeded in being rational!!!

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I succeeded in being rational!!!

Meanwhile enjoy your passive 0 skill warrior with 900hp/s for being afk

Please do tell me about how rev is so much harder than warrior.
I am waiting for this OP warrior build that all the pro teams much run.
Oh Wait…
That’s right. It was all revs running the same build, doing the exact same rotation with no care for missing of evades because ED never missed.
You mean you actually have to land your attacks? lol tough break.

Veka.8710:

Krysard.1364:

Veka.8710:

same applies for Rev the moment you see ED channels and the animation for SW3 starts get ready to hit that evade?!

The whole point of this post is that you cannot evade ED, wth are you on? You can double dodge UA if you feel like it, after that he will just PS and quickness AA you to death with the 6 ED charges. The only way to avoid ED dmg is blocking/dodging for 15s straight, pretending to do that is ridiculous. Trying to say that the only burst a rev has is ED is ridiculous. Trying to said that rev is bad without ED is ridiculous. Comparing ED with a guard trap is ridiculous. And lastly, I’ve said that im totally on for a qol change to ED with buffs to other underperforming areas, disagreeing with it is ridiculous if you actually care about rev.

You do realize it last for 15secs…and sw3 takes up a good chunk of time…and you can just run around till it’s down? NOT consuming it and playing around it is two different things, you just suck if you don’t understand that concept, lets nerf Rev only good thing going for them. I play a mesmer main and ED isn’t even that big of a deal so clearly you guys are doing something wrong because Rev drops like a fly.

The bolded is why these forums are filled with shenanigans… Your Point of View is not the same as others mate.

Condi Mes meta is hands down the biggest soft counter to Revenant for obvious reasons. Not everyone can “just run around for 15s”… that was a very ignorant statement. One that’s not near politically correct because Necro, War, & DH cannot outrun a Rev.

The OP has a very valid point to his standing.