Guild Wars 2

Hello all,

As a huge fan of the condition revenants playstyle, I would like to make a proposal to buff the condition damage a revenant can output.

Currently, the revenant deals the most condition damage when geared towards burning duration, despite being a torment-focused class. This lack of torment damage is due to most enemies having very little movement, or even not moving at all.

In order to improve not only the condition damage dealt by the class to make it more competitive with other condi classes, but also better fit the torment based theme of condi rev, I propose the following:

The passive trait that impoves torment duration now also causes torment to deal additional damage to targets that are standing still. (This additional damage will still be less than the damage when the target is moving)

Let me know what you think!

We just need more pve bosses to actively move around instead of just standing there taking it. We are starting to see this happen more since HoT. But more could be done.

Is Rev really tourment focused? I mean, most condi builds on different profession can focus on different condi, only sometimes can they focus on both. There is often a strong condi build (most likely burn based) and a weak one (often bleed based) which gives other tools. For example you can focus on bleed with Earth Ele, and that comes with good defensive tools. On the other hand, burn based condi ele stay on fire attunement and is way stronger than the bleed counterpart.
Fire-based ele, engi, berzerker, ranger and maybe guard all require the target to not move too much to achieve high DPS due to static fire fields.

In the case of Rev, though the numbers do not seem totally right at the moment, there is a stronger burn based build for static bosses (mace 2 requires no movement, arguably Facet of elements too) combined with the burn on elite use.
The second build, torment based, is for moving targets. Those are punished through movement (torment and chill on crit). The numbers may be not as high but you gain some functionality with it.

TDisPro.4896:

The passive trait that impoves torment duration now also causes torment to deal additional damage to targets that are standing still. (This additional damage will still be less than the damage when the target is moving)

I was proposing that it did the full mobile damage. I’ve tested condi engi, VS theif, and condi rev(all three in full ascended vipers with the same buffs) and the condi is always faaaaar less dps than the other two. Even the thief was vastly outshining condi rev and I only had my two thieves guild guys there to share my venoms with. If I had all 5 shared targets dishing out condi’s, the thief would’ve utterly dwarfed the condi rev numbers instead of just being noticeably better.

The problem with this suggestion is that it would make the revenant a completely dominating class in PvP. I’ve been screaming for a change to the revenant to make condi a good PvE option since it released last year. Mallyx, in general, has felt…. off since they gutted its mechanics from the beta weekends. Unless they polish the entire class or do something to it to allow for more build diversity(the class has the potential to be the most diverse class in the game, even over engi, imo), I’m afraid we’re going to be stuck as a one-trick pony; a walking, talking buff machine and a boring one at that.

Ranael.6423:

Is Rev really tourment focused?

Yes. I don’t understand how you could think otherwise. The only reason revenant condi builds focus on burning is because of how weak torment is in PvE. The condi build has at least 5 skills that can apply torment, while only having 2 skills+1 trait that applies burning. When I’m super focused on my rotation, I’ve been able to peak over 30 stacks of torment and my burning ticks STILL did more damage. Therefor, in order to even get mediocre dps, you need to be more focused on your rotation and make less mistakes than a condi engi. Not cool…

So it is hard to get high dps with torment, easier with burn … this is supposed to prove that the build is torment-based.
It is like saying engie condi is bleed based because of shrapnel… no the best ticks come from burns, bleed is the cherry on the pie. In case of rev, Torment is the cherry on the pie, but contrary to engie it becomes something strong when the boss moves.

Ranael.6423:

So it is hard to get high dps with torment, easier with burn … this is supposed to prove that the build is torment-based.
It is like saying engie condi is bleed based because of shrapnel… no the best ticks come from burns, bleed is the cherry on the pie. In case of rev, Torment is the cherry on the pie, but contrary to engie it becomes something strong when the boss moves.

Ok… I think I worded this poorly to convey my actual point. My bad. To be blunt, my point is this: The class is SUPPOSED to be torment focused(I think that’s the part I left out), but because of how weak torment is in PvE, everyone who plays condi rev will focus more on their burning skills.

The class has DOUBLE the number of skills to apply torment than it does burning. The class can EASILY apply waaaaay more torment than any other class. Logically you’d think the build is torment focused. But, like I said, because torment, overall, is vastly weaker than other conditions, no one actually focuses on it.

So, again, it’s SUPPOSED to be torment focused, but it ends up dealing more burning damage.

Was that better? Sorry my brain is all over the place today. :P

Condi mesmer, condi rev, and condi thief all share the same feature of being inferior condi specs.

Why? They don’t have access to burning, the only condition that doesn’t suck DPS wise.

The only exception is necro and that’s not because necro does more damage, in fact it does less DPS than any burn engineer or ranger, but because necros can cheese encounter mechanics to clone their damage to inflate it.

Damage needs to be shaved off burning and brought into torment, bleeding, confusion, and poison.

In the case of torment and confusion, they should do the same DPS as bleeding and just have the movement/attack triggers be a benefit on top of it since torment and confusion are harder to stack and upkeep than bleeding.

Another reason why condi mesmer and rev suck in PvE is that they can’t cleave worth kitten. Unlike engineer or necro, their condi application for the most part is single target and harder to spread around various targets in an area.

Most importantly, condi rev relies a lot on Mallyx while power rev can just sit in Glint and lose very little.

The problem with condi builds is that they are more defensive by nature. When you dodge out a zone, go away from the boss… your conditions are still ticking. On top of that, most condi weapons are ranged, that is more defensive again.
So they can’t be as high as power melee build, hence not “competitive”.
That said, there are different condi build for different purposes. If you are just speaking of raids, thief venom share (as long kitten people are in range) or scepter/pistol chrono/mesmer (60 bleed stacks applied by an almost invulnerable phantasm!) is quite competitive on high toughness boss (red guardian, Gorseval) and for other bosses they are viable since they are no DPS check. Not to mention they also remain good if you have to move.
All profession relying on burning loose a lot when the boss starts to move since most burning application comes from fields (engi’s napalm and fir bomb, berserker LB rage, WH/dagger/focus for Ele, guard’s symbol, Ranger flame trap and bonfire) and they switch to another (bleed/poison/torment) when these conditions are not met.

Rev condi build relies more on burning from mace 2 and corruption trait on long fights, or static mobs while torment becomes better in pvp/open world (or moving target). I’m not saying it is as high as other profession, in fact I did not run any test on golem but from a design point of view they are not so different as other profession.

Zenith.7301:

Condi mesmer, condi rev, and condi thief all share the same feature of being inferior condi specs.

Why? They don’t have access to burning, the only condition that doesn’t suck DPS wise

Mesmers have access to burning through use of the torch, there’s a phanta specifically for burning. Not much perhaps, but it’s something

I dont get why suddenly condition is bad for revenants when condition dps just got buffed across the board.

http://i.imgur.com/KgHCg39.jpg

Ryou.2398:

I dont get why suddenly condition is bad for revenants when condition dps just got buffed across the board.

Condition Revenant can’t be viable in PvE because of the flaws in class design. As the OP mentioned we are Torment based – That’s not very suitable for PvE.

In addition since they weren’t planning on the class having weapon swap we don’t have any alternative condition weapons and certainly no ranged condition option.

All of this just further highlights the inherent problems of the class due to faulty design.