Guild Wars 2

Simply why not add an effect to mallyx stance: “Conditions cannot be removed from you.”? (To remove the tension between supportive allies and revenants.) or even make incoming cleanses cause condi duration extention instead or something. When they leave the stance the condis could be cleared again. This would allow keeping the signature skills of mallyx like condi copying to foes and self-inflicted condis.

Mallyx is completely flavourless now. I liked the original idea a lot though.
Resistance would require some kind of counterplay other than boon removal though because it is too easy to keep up in 1v1s, like incoming CCs reduce resistance duration duration on you by a set amount while in mallyx, lets say 2-3s.

sidenote:
Also Unyielding anguish needs at least a pull or launch upon activation.(Has a nice leaping animation so ppl could react to it which is fun)

I am also in for this! Though I did some calculation, and because the Resistance skills are quite energy heavy, you wouldn’t be able to cast much other spells because of it.

But a buff that allows you to not clear conditions while in that mode would be great.

I sorta agree on flavourness BUT we have to test it first..then we can give propwr feedback.
Still i’d like my condicopypasterino back, it was a good counter to condi build (and not op like others claim, you pasted only 1 stack of each condi for 3s…)

You don’t feel the old version of Mallyx wasn’t massive counter-intuitive to how the rest of combat works across all professions, and how it work with the rest of the legends?

Condis’ are supposed to be bad. There is nothing wrong with focusing on generating our own conditions.

Has it lost a little flavor Yes, but it’s not completely devoid.

Mallyx still has the one State-Change, is still the strongest vs Conditions, still provides Resistance (Which personally, I think should be the first Minor Trait, and work outside of Demon Stance), and still causes massive Conditions.

Sarif.1827:

You don’t feel the old version of Mallyx wasn’t massive counter-intuitive to how the rest of combat works across all professions, and how it work with the rest of the legends?

The old Mallyx was an alternative to condition necromancers’ combat wise.

Sarif.1827:

There is nothing wrong with focusing on generating our own conditions.

The condition output of his utilities skills were all reduced by one and his way of generating non-damaging conditions by applying them to himself and spreading them with embrace the darkness was removed.

Sarif.1827:

Has it lost a little flavor Yes, but it’s not completely devoid.

His only “flavor” was getting stronger with each condition on him; He has nothing but a heal that does not scale as well with conditions as it use to.

Sarif.1827:

Mallyx still has the one State-Change, is still the strongest vs Conditions, still provides Resistance (Which personally, I think should be the first Minor Trait, and work outside of Demon Stance), and still causes massive Conditions.

Out of the dozens of revenants I saw last beta, only two or three used Mallyx instead of Shiro/Glint in sPvP. If the other stances were allowed to use resistance, Mallyx would see even less play.

Also, how can he apply massive conditions when the stance only applies a few stacks of confusion and melee ranged torment now? Even zerker warriors have enough condi cleanse to ignore that

Hiki.9310:

The condition output of his utilities skills were all reduced by one and his way of generating non-damaging conditions by applying them to himself and spreading them with embrace the darkness was removed.

Only one Utility Skill, Banish Enchantment, was docked on it’s confusion generation, but the low end of the skill was also bumped up so we have a better idea what the end effect is.

Your also forgetting the Chill and Torment added to Unyielding Anguish now that it doesn’t displace.

Yes, EtD was changed to compensate for the change to the idealogy of the spec. Let’s play with it, see how it feels, and if we still feel like we need a cripple or chill on EtD, let’s give feedback.

Hiki.9310:

His only “flavor” was getting stronger with each condition on him; He has nothing but a heal that does not scale as well with conditions as it use to.

Your also forgetting that the base heal was increased as well.
Doing the math, the Heal has a higher bottom-end heal, evens out around 2 to 3 Condis. After 4, Yes, the old Heal was stronger, but was that really useful? You still have on conditions on, and once outside of Resistance, that could really screw you up.

What if your in a fight that is mostly physical effects and little to no conditions? Would it not be a pain to have to apply your own conditions to get a decent heal?

What if they add a trait that increase the damage you do to a target when they have conditions on them? (Hint Hint Roy!)

Hiki.9310:

Out of the dozens of revenants I saw last beta, only two or three used Mallyx instead of Shiro/Glint in sPvP. If the other stances were allowed to use resistance, Mallyx would see even less play.

If we set aside that Glint was the new sauce added to that weekend, and that the portion of Beta Testers that played in sPvp was a sub section of those that play tested and that the only ones you saw using Mallyx are some how the only ones that used Mallyx, and that mobility has always and will always be a massive part in Pvp (in any game/game-mode really).

If you set all that aside.. your personal observation of how other people are using the class is cause for concern. However… I doubt that your personal experience is indicative of the whole scope here. I know a lot of people that only ran PvE or WvW, and they tried out Mallyx. I even fall into this group.

We now have a set of utilities that we can use comfortably without needing to pick the connected trait lines for, meaning it might actually see more use now that it doesn’t feel like your kneecapping yourself.

Hiki.9310:

Also, how can he apply massive conditions when the stance only applies a few stacks of confusion and melee ranged torment now? Even zerker warriors have enough condi cleanse to ignore that

What if Condi-Bombing is not how the team want Mallyx to be used? What if we could post feedback to increase the range, types, intensity of conditions EtD applies?

What is the downfall of any Condition based tactics? A Character set up to clear conditions. Why should this be any different for Revenant? Besides, it’s not like we arn’t bleeding Torment out of every orifice and couldn’t just reapply it all in a matter of seconds thanks to our low CD skills.

Even a Druid in all their Condi-Clearing glory would have a hard time doing anything else BUT clearing condi’s vs Mallyx.

Even if you take a Guardian Shout Spec, set up to remove 2 Condis Passively on a ten second timer, on top on their shouts, with solider runes, You could still Condi him to death.

At some point, you have to decide which one wins: The Immovable Object or the Unstoppable Force. GW2 has been clearly choosing the Unstoppable Force since Launch and this hasn’t changed. Fast, rapid Condi application will always beat out Condi-clearing mechanics due to their larger CDs.

The big issue you run into with “condi’s coan’t be removed” is what if the Rev run into a situation where they do need to have their conditions removed (e.g. their resistance is stripped or runs out)? Are they supposed to swap out of Mallyx for a cleanse only to be locked out of the Legend for 10 seconds?

I think old mallyx completely shut down a condi class, and as Roy pointed out, is very unhealthy for the game/future game. There are already several skills out there that can shut down builds entirely alone. We don’t need another one of those. Instead, those should be brought back down too.

Rather than a copy condi mechanic, why not a strengthening mechanic for incoming condis? For example, the 10% stat gain from EtD is with no condi’s, add an additional 10% stats to a total of 20% if you get a condi?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I think old mallyx completely shut down a condi class, and as Roy pointed out, is very unhealthy for the game/future game. There are already several skills out there that can shut down builds entirely alone. We don’t need another one of those. Instead, those should be brought back down too.

Rather than a copy condi mechanic, why not a strengthening mechanic for incoming condis? For example, the 10% stat gain from EtD is with no condi’s, add an additional 10% stats to a total of 20% if you get a condi?

Except Roy never said Mallyx was shutting down Condi builds; he only mentioned how Group Cleansing made it awkward to use. I’ve only seen a whopping 1 complaint about this and there was no reason from Roy as to why he removed the Condi Copy.

I don’t even buy that it was OP. Condi builds can either:
1. Boon Strip Resistance so the Rev takes a billion damage(recall that EtD only copied a SINGLE STACK)
2. CC the Rev(Mallyx has no Stun Breaks so the only way to mitigate this effectively is to Roll while using Retribution + Herald)
3. Run away for a few seconds(Pain Absorption + EtD = 5s of EtD) since it has 240 Radius and the Rev will most likely only have Off-hand Axe to reach you.

So, if you drop 15+ stacks of Burning on me in a second and I’m just copying a single one that you apparently can’t deal with, is there really an issue?
What “kills” Condi Builds is more the Resistance(Which is costly) rather than the Condi Copy.

This is exactly what I suggested when the change came out, but the devs tend to be spread too thin to create new coding.

I mean it took them over 3 years to fix minion AI and mesmer focus swiftnesss, and they just turned rev downstate 2 into a knockback instead of changing the displacement code to make it recognize stability, which was the real problem.

They’ll also justify it with the age old, “new players won’t understand anything complicated, so for them we’ll dumb everything down!!!”, line of reasoning thats gone into a surprising amount of balancing for this game. I mean look at some of the reasoning behind gravity well iterations over the past few months, the devs don’t want its complicatedness to scare new players away.

So yeah, they just don’t have the resources to make a complicated, yet ultimately more appropriate solution.

nearlight.3064:

This is exactly what I suggested when the change came out, but the devs tend to be spread too thin to create new coding.

I mean it took them over 3 years to fix minion AI and mesmer focus swiftnesss, and they just turned rev downstate 2 into a knockback instead of changing the displacement code to make it recognize stability, which was the real problem.

They’ll also justify it with the age old, “new players won’t understand anything complicated, so for them we’ll dumb everything down!!!”, line of reasoning thats gone into a surprising amount of balancing for this game. I mean look at some of the reasoning behind gravity well iterations over the past few months, the devs don’t want its complicatedness to scare new players away.

So yeah, they just don’t have the resources to make a complicated, yet ultimately more appropriate solution.

Sorta, also the amount of time needed to add a full new mechanic in core game with testing, reviewing, qualirty checks etc etc.

Also, i’d dislike that, because a simple corrupt boon will screw you with no counterplay.
I understand the reasoning (same thing should happen to necro corruptions imho, or reworking the curruption idea using effects, not conditions).

As said, i’m said for the flavour gone, but we have to test it first. Also, actually, we didn’t had a proper condi powerhouse before, now we do.

Malchior.5732:

he only mentioned how Group Cleansing made it awkward to use.

Wrong. I quote the following:

…while I know some of you will miss some old functionality we feel it will be the right choice for the health of the game and profession for the long term.

I’ve underlined and bolded the important part. That tells me right there that there may have been some underlining problems with the skills that others may have not noticed or pointed out yet.

Everyone really needs to try out the change first before crying for the old EtD back. The amount of Tormenting stacks will be extremely good. Even Roy said it might have to be toned down before live.

Gaaroth.2567:

Also, actually, we didn’t had a proper condi powerhouse before, now we do.

^ This!

That doesn’t give us a real reason though. What does unhealthy mean? The only reason he gave was group cleansing.
Even then, I’m not saying the new Mallyx wont work, but rather that it’s a bit dull. All it does is spew out Torment and lost a lot of strategy.

Malchior.5732:

That doesn’t give us a real reason though. What does unhealthy mean? The only reason he gave was group cleansing.
Even then, I’m not saying the new Mallyx wont work, but rather that it’s a bit dull. All it does is spew out Torment and lost a lot of strategy.

Again, wrong. That’s not the only reason he gave. I just quoted another one above. He doesn’t have to explain why in depth. Do you explain to people how you put your pants on in the morning? Do you go left leg first, then right, zip, button, or some other order? Or does simply stating that you put your pants on is enough? Personally, I’d rather him spend his time doing his job than telling us all the exact details to each and every decision. Less time blabbing, more time with quality time fine tuning.

And in all honesty, there’s a bit of strategy involved if you want to pump out a lot of Torment out at one time. It’s not just pop EtD and follow target around. That’s not enough. There’s going to have to be several sequences to make it effective. You’re going to have to figure out how to dump a ton of it on at the same time, while keeping the target from cleansing, pushing out cover condi’s if he does, being able to reapply quickly. Etc, etc. I fail to see how this is dull. If you’re just tunnel visioning at EtD alone, you’ve already failed.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

That doesn’t give us a real reason though. What does unhealthy mean? The only reason he gave was group cleansing.
Even then, I’m not saying the new Mallyx wont work, but rather that it’s a bit dull. All it does is spew out Torment and lost a lot of strategy.

Again, wrong. That’s not the only reason he gave. I just quoted another one above. He doesn’t have to explain why in depth. Do you explain to people how you put your pants on in the morning? Do you go left leg first, then right, zip, button, or some other order? Or does simply stating that you put your pants on is enough? Personally, I’d rather him spend his time doing his job than telling us all the exact details to each and every decision. Less time blabbing, more time with quality time fine tuning.

He never specified why he did it. Part of the reason Roy is so liked here is because he usually goes into “why” he does these changes. In this case, he took away Displacement, gave a valid reason. He took away Self-Condi because it’s awkward for teams to use which is debatable and he took away Condi-Copy on EtD because….I don’t know. He NEVER specified that EtD was unhealthy with it, it’s just gone. Was the functionality that was unhealthy the displacement, the self-condis, or the condi copy or all of them? I don’t know. He didn’t say.

He doesn’t HAVE to say “why”, but I’d like to know because just saying it’s unhealthy(which he didn’t even direct at EtD) doesn’t tell me much.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

And in all honesty, there’s a bit of strategy involved if you want to pump out a lot of Torment out at one time. It’s not just pop EtD and follow target around. That’s not enough. There’s going to have to be several sequences to make it effective. You’re going to have to figure out how to dump a ton of it on at the same time, while keeping the target from cleansing, pushing out cover condi’s if he does, being able to reapply quickly. Etc, etc. I fail to see how this is dull. If you’re just tunnel visioning at EtD alone, you’ve already failed.

The strategy is just not being dumb with it. It literally is just pop EtD and follow the target because there’s nothing else to it; it’s just a Condi Pulsing skill.
If they cleanse, it’s just going to be re-applied immediately and like I said, I don’t think this will be really weak or anything, but it lost a ton of depth.
Oh, and Cover Condis? We actually lost Blind, Weakness, Cripple, and Vuln applications on Mallyx because of these changes.

Before, I could apply Self-Blind/Weakness and then pulse it out or I could walk through Fire fields on purpose to start dealing out better damage, or I could watch when my team gets Condi-Bombed, use Pain Absorption and then spread the condis around. Powerful? Yes, but it only copies a SINGLE stack of each Condi, it had a 1s cast time, the condis themselves only last 3 seconds, it only has 240 radius, and without Pain Absorption, you’ll only have 2 seconds of Resistance.
I have trouble believing this is unhealthy.

Old Mallyx was a Corruption Necro done right. It’s a high risk, high reward playstyle that Condi builds are generally lacking and it was a ton of fun.
At the very least make the Condi Copy trait not so RNG-based. It’s way too unpredictable for me to ever rely on.

I’m with Malchior on this. Lonewolf Kai, you cant just shout “wrong” every time someone Disagrees with you. It makes you sound like a child throwing a tantrum. The truth is He did never specify what with Unhealthy. The only real answer was Cleansing. The OP is right really, If its possible to stop condi’s from being Cleasned that really should be the route taken instead of gimping the entire build.

Malchior.5732:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

That doesn’t give us a real reason though. What does unhealthy mean? The only reason he gave was group cleansing.
Even then, I’m not saying the new Mallyx wont work, but rather that it’s a bit dull. All it does is spew out Torment and lost a lot of strategy.

Again, wrong. That’s not the only reason he gave. I just quoted another one above. He doesn’t have to explain why in depth. Do you explain to people how you put your pants on in the morning? Do you go left leg first, then right, zip, button, or some other order? Or does simply stating that you put your pants on is enough? Personally, I’d rather him spend his time doing his job than telling us all the exact details to each and every decision. Less time blabbing, more time with quality time fine tuning.

He never specified why he did it. Part of the reason Roy is so liked here is because he usually goes into “why” he does these changes. In this case, he took away Displacement, gave a valid reason. He took away Self-Condi because it’s awkward for teams to use which is debatable and he took away Condi-Copy on EtD because….I don’t know. He NEVER specified that EtD was unhealthy with it, it’s just gone. Was the functionality that was unhealthy the displacement, the self-condis, or the condi copy or all of them? I don’t know. He didn’t say.

He doesn’t HAVE to say “why”, but I’d like to know because just saying it’s unhealthy(which he didn’t even direct at EtD) doesn’t tell me much.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

And in all honesty, there’s a bit of strategy involved if you want to pump out a lot of Torment out at one time. It’s not just pop EtD and follow target around. That’s not enough. There’s going to have to be several sequences to make it effective. You’re going to have to figure out how to dump a ton of it on at the same time, while keeping the target from cleansing, pushing out cover condi’s if he does, being able to reapply quickly. Etc, etc. I fail to see how this is dull. If you’re just tunnel visioning at EtD alone, you’ve already failed.

The strategy is just not being dumb with it. It literally is just pop EtD and follow the target because there’s nothing else to it; it’s just a Condi Pulsing skill.
If they cleanse, it’s just going to be re-applied immediately and like I said, I don’t think this will be really weak or anything, but it lost a ton of depth.
Oh, and Cover Condis? We actually lost Blind, Weakness, Cripple, and Vuln applications on Mallyx because of these changes.

Before, I could apply Self-Blind/Weakness and then pulse it out or I could walk through Fire fields on purpose to start dealing out better damage, or I could watch when my team gets Condi-Bombed, use Pain Absorption and then spread the condis around. Powerful? Yes, but it only copies a SINGLE stack of each Condi, it had a 1s cast time, the condis themselves only last 3 seconds, it only has 240 radius, and without Pain Absorption, you’ll only have 2 seconds of Resistance.
I have trouble believing this is unhealthy.

Old Mallyx was a Corruption Necro done right. It’s a high risk, high reward playstyle that Condi builds are generally lacking and it was a ton of fun.
At the very least make the Condi Copy trait not so RNG-based. It’s way too unpredictable for me to ever rely on.

Again, why does he have to explain every single detail to us? Why not just trust in what the developer does? Roy’s track record shows that he deeply cares about the Revenant, so it’s not like he is doing this just to spite the class.

Also, I can’t help you if you’re unable to see the more complex strategies for using EtD effectively for condi-attacking. That’s a learn to play issue. As I said before, if you think popping EtD and sticking to the target is good enough for the amount of effective Torment, you’ve already failed at condi-Rev. There’s a lot more involved, and alot more what-if’s you’ll need to be prepared for.

Chakatsilverpaw.5218:

I’m with Malchior on this. Lonewolf Kai, you cant just shout “wrong” every time someone Disagrees with you. It makes you sound like a child throwing a tantrum. The truth is He did never specify what with Unhealthy. The only real answer was Cleansing. The OP is right really, If its possible to stop condi’s from being Cleasned that really should be the route taken instead of gimping the entire build.

What in the world are you squawking about? Re-read the posts again. I’m simply stating facts. Malchior was stating that Roy said condi-cleanse was the only reason for changing Mallyx, when he clearly stated more. Implying that’s the only reason is just plain stupid when there was more to it, and unless you’re Roy himself, you can’t say otherwise. He gave his reason S. Deal with it.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

That doesn’t give us a real reason though. What does unhealthy mean? The only reason he gave was group cleansing.
Even then, I’m not saying the new Mallyx wont work, but rather that it’s a bit dull. All it does is spew out Torment and lost a lot of strategy.

Again, wrong. That’s not the only reason he gave. I just quoted another one above. He doesn’t have to explain why in depth. Do you explain to people how you put your pants on in the morning? Do you go left leg first, then right, zip, button, or some other order? Or does simply stating that you put your pants on is enough? Personally, I’d rather him spend his time doing his job than telling us all the exact details to each and every decision. Less time blabbing, more time with quality time fine tuning.

He never specified why he did it. Part of the reason Roy is so liked here is because he usually goes into “why” he does these changes. In this case, he took away Displacement, gave a valid reason. He took away Self-Condi because it’s awkward for teams to use which is debatable and he took away Condi-Copy on EtD because….I don’t know. He NEVER specified that EtD was unhealthy with it, it’s just gone. Was the functionality that was unhealthy the displacement, the self-condis, or the condi copy or all of them? I don’t know. He didn’t say.

He doesn’t HAVE to say “why”, but I’d like to know because just saying it’s unhealthy(which he didn’t even direct at EtD) doesn’t tell me much.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

And in all honesty, there’s a bit of strategy involved if you want to pump out a lot of Torment out at one time. It’s not just pop EtD and follow target around. That’s not enough. There’s going to have to be several sequences to make it effective. You’re going to have to figure out how to dump a ton of it on at the same time, while keeping the target from cleansing, pushing out cover condi’s if he does, being able to reapply quickly. Etc, etc. I fail to see how this is dull. If you’re just tunnel visioning at EtD alone, you’ve already failed.

The strategy is just not being dumb with it. It literally is just pop EtD and follow the target because there’s nothing else to it; it’s just a Condi Pulsing skill.
If they cleanse, it’s just going to be re-applied immediately and like I said, I don’t think this will be really weak or anything, but it lost a ton of depth.
Oh, and Cover Condis? We actually lost Blind, Weakness, Cripple, and Vuln applications on Mallyx because of these changes.

Before, I could apply Self-Blind/Weakness and then pulse it out or I could walk through Fire fields on purpose to start dealing out better damage, or I could watch when my team gets Condi-Bombed, use Pain Absorption and then spread the condis around. Powerful? Yes, but it only copies a SINGLE stack of each Condi, it had a 1s cast time, the condis themselves only last 3 seconds, it only has 240 radius, and without Pain Absorption, you’ll only have 2 seconds of Resistance.
I have trouble believing this is unhealthy.

Old Mallyx was a Corruption Necro done right. It’s a high risk, high reward playstyle that Condi builds are generally lacking and it was a ton of fun.
At the very least make the Condi Copy trait not so RNG-based. It’s way too unpredictable for me to ever rely on.

Again, why does he have to explain every single detail to us? Why not just trust in what the developer does? Roy’s track record shows that he deeply cares about the Revenant, so it’s not like he is doing this just to spite the class.

Also, I can’t help you if you’re unable to see the more complex strategies for using EtD effectively for condi-attacking. That’s a learn to play issue. As I said before, if you think popping EtD and sticking to the target is good enough for the amount of effective Torment, you’ve already failed at condi-Rev. There’s a lot more involved, and alot more what-if’s you’ll need to be prepared for.

Because that’s not how things work? Roy is just a regular person and can make mistakes; that’s the whole point of the Beta anyway: to fix things. I think he went a little too far with the changes.

I don’t see anything special you can do with EtD anymore. Outside of the +10% stat boost, literally all it does is pulse out Torment. What special strategy can you do with this? Please tell me, because outside of not being dumb with the timing, there doesn’t seem to be much else. Do you want me to use Unrelenting Assault to stick to the target? I could do that before. Do you want me to use it after they cleanse? I have no Condi-Bombs to use, so you basically have to use EtD to make your Condi lethal by using it then. There’s literally nothing else you can do with it.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Chakatsilverpaw.5218:

I’m with Malchior on this. Lonewolf Kai, you cant just shout “wrong” every time someone Disagrees with you. It makes you sound like a child throwing a tantrum. The truth is He did never specify what with Unhealthy. The only real answer was Cleansing. The OP is right really, If its possible to stop condi’s from being Cleasned that really should be the route taken instead of gimping the entire build.

What in the world are you squawking about? Re-read the posts again. I’m simply stating facts. Malchior was stating that Roy said condi-cleanse was the only reason for changing Mallyx, when he clearly stated more. Implying that’s the only reason is just plain stupid when there was more to it, and unless you’re Roy himself, you can’t say otherwise. He gave his reason S. Deal with it.

Actually, you’re using nothing but blind speculation. Roy never specified what was unhealthy, but removed several aspects of Mallyx. He did mention reasons for the Displacement and the Self-Condis(which, again, are pretty debatable), but never EtD. Displacement was disorienting, and Self-Condis were awkward to use with Group cleanse, but EtD? No one knows. You can’t ignore this fact.

Malchior.5732:

Because that’s not how things work? Roy is just a regular person and can make mistakes; that’s the whole point of the Beta anyway: to fix things. I think he went a little too far with the changes.

I don’t see anything special you can do with EtD anymore. Outside of the +10% stat boost, literally all it does is pulse out Torment. What special strategy can you do with this? Please tell me, because outside of not being dumb with the timing, there doesn’t seem to be much else. Do you want me to use Unrelenting Assault to stick to the target? I could do that before. Do you want me to use it after they cleanse? I have no Condi-Bombs to use, so you basically have to use EtD to make your Condi lethal by using it then. There’s literally nothing else you can do with it.

Actually, you’re using nothing but blind speculation. Roy never specified what was unhealthy, but removed several aspects of Mallyx. He did mention reasons for the Displacement and the Self-Condis(which, again, are pretty debatable), but never EtD. Displacement was disorienting, and Self-Condis were awkward to use with Group cleanse, but EtD? No one knows. You can’t ignore this fact.

Sorry, I’m not a trainer or have the time to help you. If you have a guild, I’d suggest hitting someone up for some strat help from someone who knows condi-gameplay well.

Onto Roy’s reasonings, look at the quote again:

…while I know some of you will miss some old functionality we feel it will be the right choice for the health of the game and profession for the long term.

Yes, he does not specify which skills, but if you look at the context of what he was saying and when he said this, you’ll see it was refering to all of the Mallyx changes, including EtD.

EDIT: Here’s a direct link to the post where I got the quote from. If you look at the previous postings, you’ll see the context he is replying too.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Upcoming-Revenant-changes-for-BWE3/page/3#post5494389

while i love that old EtD madly, i have to admit it was preyy OP, let’s face it, it hadn’t real skill or counterplay attached…in a meta where DD ele were (before today) gods i literally swallowed them (fun trick: continuosly walk in ring of fire :-D ) they had to either disengage (it wasn’t that easy) or die.
So yeah, it wasn’t healty even if not explicitly said.

What we have lost is the mallyx skill level with self loading with conditions to empower ourselves and as i said, i get the difficulty in that in group scenarios.
Thinking closely on necro corruptions, also, you understand that self conditions there are just a secondary cost with no mechanic attached, unlikely old Mallyx, just an extra burden. There group clenses are actually good.

So…yes, now we Mallyx is a torment powerhouse, let it be, let us test it.
What’s the gameplay now? we have many skill to apply torment, we cant spam them due to energy so the skill will be seen in the good rotation management to fight clenses on the other side. Fine with that. On after some thiking i’m extra sold on torment buff trait while standing. this will just enhance our dps in more static contexts like pve.

BWE is near…let’s try then give our sincere feedback…but for now i’m kinda convinced.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

Because that’s not how things work? Roy is just a regular person and can make mistakes; that’s the whole point of the Beta anyway: to fix things. I think he went a little too far with the changes.

I don’t see anything special you can do with EtD anymore. Outside of the +10% stat boost, literally all it does is pulse out Torment. What special strategy can you do with this? Please tell me, because outside of not being dumb with the timing, there doesn’t seem to be much else. Do you want me to use Unrelenting Assault to stick to the target? I could do that before. Do you want me to use it after they cleanse? I have no Condi-Bombs to use, so you basically have to use EtD to make your Condi lethal by using it then. There’s literally nothing else you can do with it.

Actually, you’re using nothing but blind speculation. Roy never specified what was unhealthy, but removed several aspects of Mallyx. He did mention reasons for the Displacement and the Self-Condis(which, again, are pretty debatable), but never EtD. Displacement was disorienting, and Self-Condis were awkward to use with Group cleanse, but EtD? No one knows. You can’t ignore this fact.

Sorry, I’m not a trainer or have the time to help you. If you have a guild, I’d suggest hitting someone up for some strat help from someone who knows condi-gameplay well.

Look at the quote again:

…while I know some of you will miss some old functionality we feel it will be the right choice for the health of the game and profession for the long term.

Yes, he does not specify which skills, but if you look at the context of what he was saying and when he said this, you’ll see it was refering to all of the Mallyx changes, including EtD.

EDIT: Here’s a direct link to the post where I got the quote from. If you look at the previous postings, you’ll see the context he is replying too.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Upcoming-Revenant-changes-for-BWE3/page/3#post5494389

So basically, you have no idea what else the new EtD can do(all it does is pulse Torment…) and your “facts” are nothing but blind speculation(like you just said, he doesn’t refer to EtD at all).

I’m just about done since you clearly don’t want a discussion.

If I’m not mistaken, the other issue with EtD was that it copied the conditions you had at the same level of intensity. In other words you could walk in with zero condi damage, resist a burst from a Burn Guard (for example), and effectively make the guard eat his own attack. Since EtD is a pulsing effect that Guard would have to worry about this problem every 3 seconds.

To me, that doesn’t seem right. Yes, you can just strip the Resist boon off a Rev and have him explode, but how readily can a boon be stripped vs how often a Rev can apply that boon on himself?

Necros still have their own corruption, but their skills work differently. The Necro gains virtually nothing from hoarding conditions outside of his heal. Any sort of condition manipulation or transfer is a one time effect as well so there’s not this constant chase of having to repeatedly wash off copied conditions. All classes that have transfer abilities (be it naturally or through gear upgrades) are generally capped at how many conditions are copied with a modest cooldown such as Necro’s marks and Sigil of Generosity.

Ultimately, Mallyx still does well as a condi counter. I agree that there was a lot of flavor lost, but mechanically a Mallyx Rev is still very strong (at least on paper) against condi builds. Other than laughing at your foes by ignoring all conditions effects, Bolstered Anguish still offers an incentive for hoarding conditions (even more so for sinister-esque builds).

Edit: As far as a stand-alone Condition build for Mallyx (can Mallyx generate enough condi’s on his own)? Well, that’s to be determined in the next beta. On paper it doesn’t look all that great, but Roy mentioned changing/adding traits to help the Legend self-reliance.

savacli.8172:

If I’m not mistaken, the other issue with EtD was that it copied the conditions you had at the same level of intensity. In other words you could walk in with zero condi damage, resist a burst from a Burn Guard (for example), and effectively make the guard eat his own attack. Since EtD is a pulsing effect that Guard would have to worry about this problem every 3 seconds.

To me, that doesn’t seem right. Yes, you can just strip the Resist boon off a Rev and have him explode, but how readily can a boon be stripped vs how often a Rev can apply that boon on himself?

Necros still have their own corruption, but their skills work differently. The Necro gains virtually nothing from hoarding conditions outside of his heal. Any sort of condition manipulation or transfer is a one time effect as well so there’s not this constant chase of having to repeatedly wash off copied conditions.

Ultimately, Mallyx still does well as a condi counter. I agree that there was a lot of flavor lost, but mechanically a Mallyx Rev is still very strong (at least on paper) against condi builds. Other than laughing at your foes by ignoring all conditions effects, Bolstered Anguish still offers an incentive for hoarding conditions (even more so for sinister-esque builds).

Edit: As far as a stand-alone Condition build for Mallyx (can Mallyx generate enough condi’s on his own)? Well, that’s to be determined in the next beta. On paper it doesn’t look all that great, but Roy mentioned changing/adding traits to help the Legend self-reliance.

AFAIK, it used the Rev’s own Condi Damage(and again, it’s only 1 stack for 3 seconds). Then, Necro’s Curse line does have Plague Sending(and Necro’s transfers on Staff/OH Dagger) and Parasitic Contagion(that should work, no?) to actually “make use” of the self-conditions. It doesn’t work very well, but the design is pretty similar to Mallyx’s. You’re right that Mallyx was made to hoard them while Necro was made to get rid of them, however, this was the Corruption gameplay that actually worked.

Also, the Heal, Pain Absorption, Bolstered Anguish, Repleneshing Despair, and Pulsating Pestilence were all technically nerfed upon removing Self-Conditions.

A stand-alone Mallyx condi build might work, but since it relies almost entirely on Torment and a few supplementary Burn/Confusion/Poison stacks with few Cover Condis(Chill/Vuln) , I don’t know how well this will do. It has no Control, no Stun Break, no Cleanses, no Transfers. So you have to just vomit out Torment I guess.

Malchior.5732:

savacli.8172:

If I’m not mistaken, the other issue with EtD was that it copied the conditions you had at the same level of intensity. In other words you could walk in with zero condi damage, resist a burst from a Burn Guard (for example), and effectively make the guard eat his own attack. Since EtD is a pulsing effect that Guard would have to worry about this problem every 3 seconds.

To me, that doesn’t seem right. Yes, you can just strip the Resist boon off a Rev and have him explode, but how readily can a boon be stripped vs how often a Rev can apply that boon on himself?

Necros still have their own corruption, but their skills work differently. The Necro gains virtually nothing from hoarding conditions outside of his heal. Any sort of condition manipulation or transfer is a one time effect as well so there’s not this constant chase of having to repeatedly wash off copied conditions.

Ultimately, Mallyx still does well as a condi counter. I agree that there was a lot of flavor lost, but mechanically a Mallyx Rev is still very strong (at least on paper) against condi builds. Other than laughing at your foes by ignoring all conditions effects, Bolstered Anguish still offers an incentive for hoarding conditions (even more so for sinister-esque builds).

Edit: As far as a stand-alone Condition build for Mallyx (can Mallyx generate enough condi’s on his own)? Well, that’s to be determined in the next beta. On paper it doesn’t look all that great, but Roy mentioned changing/adding traits to help the Legend self-reliance.

AFAIK, it used the Rev’s own Condi Damage(and again, it’s only 1 stack for 3 seconds). Then, Necro’s Curse line does have Plague Sending(and Necro’s transfers on Staff/OH Dagger) and Parasitic Contagion(that should work, no?) to actually “make use” of the self-conditions. It doesn’t work very well, but the design is pretty similar to Mallyx’s. You’re right that Mallyx was made to hoard them while Necro was made to get rid of them, however, this was the Corruption gameplay that actually worked.

Also, the Heal, Pain Absorption, Bolstered Anguish, Repleneshing Despair, and Pulsating Pestilence were all technically nerfed upon removing Self-Conditions.

A stand-alone Mallyx condi build might work, but since it relies almost entirely on Torment and a few supplementary Burn/Confusion/Poison stacks with few Cover Condis(Chill/Vuln) , I don’t know how well this will do. It has no Control, no Stun Break, no Cleanses, no Transfers. So you have to just vomit out Torment I guess.

well we have a whole another legend to cover up + traits. Conditions on mallyx aren’t an issue if you pace nicely the skills with the resistence trait. The control is not extremely needed (even tho you ca use axe/sword OH). Stun breaks can be fetched elsewhere. Overall i think i’ll still run my mace/axe/shield mallyx/glint corruption/retribution/herald build with some tweaks in trait and adjustment in gameplay

I’m just thinking about the Mallyx Legend itself. As Gaaroth mentioned we have a few ways to patch up our downfalls. But that’s a brainstorm for another thread :p

Anyway, I think this was the issue with the Elite: even if they revert that skill alone it’ll promote the hoarding type of gameplay again and potently cause clashing within teams.

I read one suggestion that suggested a unique “Mallyx” stacking buff. The example was given that the number of stacks would determine additional effects or bonuses on Demon skills. A Rev would gain stacks by being inflicted with a condition or something similar, but no additional incentive would be offered for maintaining the condition. That way Rev would still benefit from taking on conditions, and they’re wouldn’t be ‘punished’ for having the conditions cleansed.

Malchior.5732:

So basically, you have no idea what else the new EtD can do(all it does is pulse Torment…) and your “facts” are nothing but blind speculation(like you just said, he doesn’t refer to EtD at all).

That’s not what I posted at all, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, be my guest and think that.

Gaaroth.2567:

Malchior.5732:

savacli.8172:

If I’m not mistaken, the other issue with EtD was that it copied the conditions you had at the same level of intensity. In other words you could walk in with zero condi damage, resist a burst from a Burn Guard (for example), and effectively make the guard eat his own attack. Since EtD is a pulsing effect that Guard would have to worry about this problem every 3 seconds.

To me, that doesn’t seem right. Yes, you can just strip the Resist boon off a Rev and have him explode, but how readily can a boon be stripped vs how often a Rev can apply that boon on himself?

Necros still have their own corruption, but their skills work differently. The Necro gains virtually nothing from hoarding conditions outside of his heal. Any sort of condition manipulation or transfer is a one time effect as well so there’s not this constant chase of having to repeatedly wash off copied conditions.

Ultimately, Mallyx still does well as a condi counter. I agree that there was a lot of flavor lost, but mechanically a Mallyx Rev is still very strong (at least on paper) against condi builds. Other than laughing at your foes by ignoring all conditions effects, Bolstered Anguish still offers an incentive for hoarding conditions (even more so for sinister-esque builds).

Edit: As far as a stand-alone Condition build for Mallyx (can Mallyx generate enough condi’s on his own)? Well, that’s to be determined in the next beta. On paper it doesn’t look all that great, but Roy mentioned changing/adding traits to help the Legend self-reliance.

AFAIK, it used the Rev’s own Condi Damage(and again, it’s only 1 stack for 3 seconds). Then, Necro’s Curse line does have Plague Sending(and Necro’s transfers on Staff/OH Dagger) and Parasitic Contagion(that should work, no?) to actually “make use” of the self-conditions. It doesn’t work very well, but the design is pretty similar to Mallyx’s. You’re right that Mallyx was made to hoard them while Necro was made to get rid of them, however, this was the Corruption gameplay that actually worked.

Also, the Heal, Pain Absorption, Bolstered Anguish, Repleneshing Despair, and Pulsating Pestilence were all technically nerfed upon removing Self-Conditions.

A stand-alone Mallyx condi build might work, but since it relies almost entirely on Torment and a few supplementary Burn/Confusion/Poison stacks with few Cover Condis(Chill/Vuln) , I don’t know how well this will do. It has no Control, no Stun Break, no Cleanses, no Transfers. So you have to just vomit out Torment I guess.

well we have a whole another legend to cover up + traits. Conditions on mallyx aren’t an issue if you pace nicely the skills with the resistence trait. The control is not extremely needed (even tho you ca use axe/sword OH). Stun breaks can be fetched elsewhere. Overall i think i’ll still run my mace/axe/shield mallyx/glint corruption/retribution/herald build with some tweaks in trait and adjustment in gameplay

Control will be key for a few situations if you want to dump a lot of Torment stacks on at the same time, but contrary to thought, Revenants do have several control options.

You’re all probably better off ignoring Lonewolf Kai and their tantrums. They seem to be of the nature and mindset of “I’m always right, you’re always wrong.” Anything to the contrary will wind up causing a screaming-fit/tantrum. In short? Feed not yonder troll.

From what I’ve read, other that them, this is a good debate over the potential nature of the changes until they can be experienced first hand.

LunaraGK.8725:

You’re all probably better off ignoring Lonewolf Kai and their tantrums. They seem to be of the nature and mindset of “I’m always right, you’re always wrong.” Anything to the contrary will wind up causing a screaming-fit/tantrum. In short? Feed not yonder troll.

From what I’ve read, other that them, this is a good debate over the potential nature of the changes until they can be experienced first hand.

All I really want is:

1. If possible, I want Roy’s reasons behind removing EtD’s Condi Copy(and not changing Pulsating Pestilence to something different/more useful/less RNG).

2. At the very least something more interesting to be brought into Mallyx. I’ve read some really awesome suggestions like the Demon stacks thing or Self-Corrupting all your own Boons to then spread or something more than just vomiting Torment.

I just dont understand why something cant be done to prevent Condi from being cleansed on Demon Stance. I mean what, Now i’m torment version of the Necro Plague form? And what buffs did we actually get when we lost Condi copy? Didnt we already have torment and stat boost before?

LunaraGK.8725:

You’re all probably better off ignoring Lonewolf Kai and their tantrums. They seem to be of the nature and mindset of “I’m always right, you’re always wrong.” Anything to the contrary will wind up causing a screaming-fit/tantrum. In short? Feed not yonder troll.

From what I’ve read, other that them, this is a good debate over the potential nature of the changes until they can be experienced first hand.

Way to flamebait. And you call me the troll?

Malchior.5732:

All I really want is:

1. If possible, I want Roy’s reasons behind removing EtD’s Condi Copy(and not changing Pulsating Pestilence to something different/more useful/less RNG).

2. At the very least something more interesting to be brought into Mallyx. I’ve read some really awesome suggestions like the Demon stacks thing or Self-Corrupting all your own Boons to then spread or something more than just vomiting Torment.

1. He did gave a reason: for the health of the class and the game.
2. Matter of opinion. Some us like the changes and want to at least try it.

Chakatsilverpaw.5218:

Didnt we already have torment and stat boost before?

The torment stacking was effectively doubled on EtD.

What I want is a “why”. Why is it unhealthy? Just cuz he’s a dev and he said so? That’s not a good reason. Because it counters Condi Builds? That’s really debatable.

Second, it IS a matter of opinion, hence “All I really want is:”.
If I want a condi build that does nothing but vomit out 1 or 2 conditions, I’ll play a Burn Guard. Hell, the new Necro Scepter outputs a nice chunk of Torment now too so what does Mallyx bring?

Malchior.5732:

What I want is a “why”. Why is it unhealthy? Just cuz he’s a dev and he said so? That’s not a good reason. Because it counters Condi Builds? That’s really debatable.

Second, it IS a matter of opinion, hence “All I really want is:”.
If I want a condi build that does nothing but vomit out 1 or 2 conditions, I’ll play a Burn Guard. Hell, the new Necro Scepter outputs a nice chunk of Torment now too so what does Mallyx bring?

Ok, I can see that then, on the why.

Malchior.5732:

What I want is a “why”. Why is it unhealthy? Just cuz he’s a dev and he said so? That’s not a good reason. Because it counters Condi Builds? That’s really debatable.

Second, it IS a matter of opinion, hence “All I really want is:”.
If I want a condi build that does nothing but vomit out 1 or 2 conditions, I’ll play a Burn Guard. Hell, the new Necro Scepter outputs a nice chunk of Torment now too so what does Mallyx bring?

Wut? @1200 condi dmg torment is 70|140 while bleedind is 94.
Basically you need 1 time and half more stacks to be on par. Rev can dish out easy 15 stack and can spike for at least 25 (possible but extremely consuming), necro needs to put 22 / 37 stacks just to be equal. Hint: he doesnt.
Sure, has other condis. Imho atm we are extremely reliable condi appliers, beaten only by engis.

Gaaroth.2567:

Malchior.5732:

What I want is a “why”. Why is it unhealthy? Just cuz he’s a dev and he said so? That’s not a good reason. Because it counters Condi Builds? That’s really debatable.

Second, it IS a matter of opinion, hence “All I really want is:”.
If I want a condi build that does nothing but vomit out 1 or 2 conditions, I’ll play a Burn Guard. Hell, the new Necro Scepter outputs a nice chunk of Torment now too so what does Mallyx bring?

Wut? @1200 condi dmg torment is 70|140 while bleedind is 94.
Basically you need 1 time and half more stacks to be on par. Rev can dish out easy 15 stack and can spike for at least 25 (possible but extremely consuming), necro needs to put 22 / 37 stacks just to be equal. Hint: he doesnt.
Sure, has other condis. Imho atm we are extremely reliable condi appliers, beaten only by engis.

And Necro has corruptions(we have Confusion and Boon Stripping) and transfers and while Necro Condi isn’t super strong(at least it wasn’t pre-patch, dunno now), that isn’t the point. The point is that they have something that sets them apart and is unique.
Now we’re just Torment dispensers, that while out-putting more Torment than anyone else, is just another condi tank.

Yes like i said this is how we work now: condi/conditank.
Before we had the same role in a different and sorta skillful way (also only really workable against other condis) now we are simplier but stronger.
I repeat again, let’s try and give Roy all the feedback. After all in Roy we trust, no

Gaaroth.2567:

Yes like i said this is how we work now: condi/conditank.
Before we had the same role in a different and sorta skillful way (also only really workable against other condis) now we are simplier but stronger.
I repeat again, let’s try and give Roy all the feedback. After all in Roy we trust, no

It was a lot more high risk, high reward style though. Of course I’m still going to try it out, but the new Mallyx doesn’t really seem to have any real depth anymore.

Malchior.5732:

Gaaroth.2567:

Yes like i said this is how we work now: condi/conditank.
Before we had the same role in a different and sorta skillful way (also only really workable against other condis) now we are simplier but stronger.
I repeat again, let’s try and give Roy all the feedback. After all in Roy we trust, no

It was a lot more high risk, high reward style though. Of course I’m still going to try it out, but the new Mallyx doesn’t really seem to have any real depth anymore.

On this we all agree i guess

One can hope then that once the beta weekend has ended, that should these complaints continue, any suggestions will carry some more weight. I can agree that with the removal of the condition equate to buffs mechanic, the way this legend is presented falls a little, well, flat.

that’s accouly a great idea

People are saying that our torment application has improved, but isn’t it worse now?

The only changes affecting our torment are to unyielding anguish and embrace the darkness.

Unyielding anguish use to apply 6 stacks of torment instantly, and after the changes it can only apply 4 stacks on players who refuse to step out of the aoe.

Also the new etb only offers a 3 second longer torment than the old one that could do so much more.

Malchior.5732:

Gaaroth.2567:

Yes like i said this is how we work now: condi/conditank.
Before we had the same role in a different and sorta skillful way (also only really workable against other condis) now we are simplier but stronger.
I repeat again, let’s try and give Roy all the feedback. After all in Roy we trust, no

It was a lot more high risk, high reward style though. Of course I’m still going to try it out, but the new Mallyx doesn’t really seem to have any real depth anymore.

As pointed out though, you have to be facing a condi target. If you weren’t fighting a condi-dispenser, Mallyx was only partially effective. Now, you don’t have to depend on that. You are self-reliant.

Gaaroth.2567:

Malchior.5732:

Gaaroth.2567:

Yes like i said this is how we work now: condi/conditank.
Before we had the same role in a different and sorta skillful way (also only really workable against other condis) now we are simplier but stronger.
I repeat again, let’s try and give Roy all the feedback. After all in Roy we trust, no

It was a lot more high risk, high reward style though. Of course I’m still going to try it out, but the new Mallyx doesn’t really seem to have any real depth anymore.

On this we all agree i guess

No, I still disagree with that, but I will agree to disagree.

Hiki.9310:

People are saying that our torment application has improved, but isn’t it worse now?

The only changes affecting our torment are to unyielding anguish and embrace the darkness.

Unyielding anguish use to apply 6 stacks of torment instantly, and after the changes it can only apply 4 stacks on players who refuse to step out of the aoe.

Also the new etb only offers a 3 second longer torment than the old one that could do so much more.

Torment stacking was doubled on EtD.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

Gaaroth.2567:

Yes like i said this is how we work now: condi/conditank.
Before we had the same role in a different and sorta skillful way (also only really workable against other condis) now we are simplier but stronger.
I repeat again, let’s try and give Roy all the feedback. After all in Roy we trust, no

It was a lot more high risk, high reward style though. Of course I’m still going to try it out, but the new Mallyx doesn’t really seem to have any real depth anymore.

As pointed out though, you have to be facing a condi target. If you weren’t fighting a condi-dispenser, Mallyx was only partially effective. Now, you don’t have to depend on that. You are self-reliant.

Not necessarily true. Eles, Guards, Rangers, Power Necros, even Thieves, etc. all provide Conditions for you to play with without even focusing on them and IIRC, EtD used the Rev’s Condition Damage.
You were less effective against builds that had like no (damaging) conditions at all, but those aren’t exactly common. The old elite was somewhat situational, but very powerful while the new one has no reason not to be activated(it only puts you at -2 energy/sec after all) .

Malchior.5732:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Malchior.5732:

Gaaroth.2567:

Yes like i said this is how we work now: condi/conditank.
Before we had the same role in a different and sorta skillful way (also only really workable against other condis) now we are simplier but stronger.
I repeat again, let’s try and give Roy all the feedback. After all in Roy we trust, no

It was a lot more high risk, high reward style though. Of course I’m still going to try it out, but the new Mallyx doesn’t really seem to have any real depth anymore.

As pointed out though, you have to be facing a condi target. If you weren’t fighting a condi-dispenser, Mallyx was only partially effective. Now, you don’t have to depend on that. You are self-reliant.

Not necessarily true. Eles, Guards, Rangers, Power Necros, even Thieves, etc. all provide Conditions for you to play with without even focusing on them and IIRC, EtD used the Rev’s Condition Damage.
You were less effective against builds that had like no (damaging) conditions at all, but those aren’t exactly common.

That’s true. Didn’t think about that.

Malchior.5732:

The old elite was somewhat situational, but very powerful while the new one has no reason not to be activated(it only puts you at -2 energy/sec after all) .

Unless you’re a condi-Revy