Guild Wars 2

Why is there no Glint, Ventari and Dwarf stance for underwater combat? I know underwater content isn’t a priority or anything, but I feel that, since there are 5 legends the revenant has access to, and only 2 available underwater (Shiro and Mallyx), wouldn’t this mean it’s incomplete? All other professions, if I recall correctly, to my knowledge, have access to their kits/elements/shatters etc.

In comparison, this would be like only providing the mesmer with 2 of their shatters, or 2 of the elementalist’s elements, or only 1 or 2 of the engineer kits.

I’m hoping this will be fixed with any future expansion as I know it’s not a priority and all, and I suppose we can live without the other 3 legends for now, but it would be nice to see them added at some point :-/

Ventari isn’t available because the tablet really can’t work underwater.

Glint and Jalis, however, have no good reason as to why they’re not available. Ground target skills aren’t even an obstacle once you consider Necro wells (which are now usable underwater, but only as PBAoE).

That said, not every utility skill is available underwater. For example, I don’t think any traps can be used there.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

… Necro wells (which are now usable underwater, but only as PBAoE).

This always makes me so sad…

But yeah… Glint and Jalis should work with some light tweaking. They probably just ran out of time and never bothered again. The spear makes it even more obvious.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ventari isn’t available because the tablet really can’t work underwater.

Glint and Jalis, however, have no good reason as to why they’re not available. Ground target skills aren’t even an obstacle once you consider Necro wells (which are now usable underwater, but only as PBAoE).

This

Surely Ventari’s tablet could work underwater though – I mean if necro’s can have wells underwater… surely pulling a ventari tablet towards you, wouldn’t be impossible?

I definitely don’t understand why Jalis isn’t available underwater though. Ok, so the ground targeted skill that gives stability wouldn’t work underwater, but that skill could just be disabled, or used differently underwater. Where there’s a will, there’s a way

Zaoda.1653:

Surely Ventari’s tablet could work underwater though – I mean if necro’s can have wells underwater… surely pulling a ventari tablet towards you, wouldn’t be impossible?

I definitely don’t understand why Jalis isn’t available underwater though. Ok, so the ground targeted skill that gives stability wouldn’t work underwater, but that skill could just be disabled, or used differently underwater. Where there’s a will, there’s a way

Necro wells originally required traiting to become ground-targeted. Now that functionality is baseline, but them being PBAoE’s was around beforehand.

More specifically as to why Ventari can’t work underwater is because all of the skills are based on the tablet specifically. You can’t move the tablet underwater, so the entire legend falls apart in function.

Personally, I’d say they’re all doable.

For Glint, I think the only skill that’s problematic is the Facet of Elements active, but that could just be made into a column that centers on your target (or on yourself if you have no target selected).

Jalis is a little more difficult, but the ‘road’ could be made into a corridor in front of the player when underwater, or reworked to have a different area and appearance but holding the same function.

Ventari could be made to just have the tablet stick to the player by default. Or you could make skill 6 call the tablet to you and then send it out forward, with a second activation while it’s moving causing it to stop. Or if push comes to shove, just have the tablet always remain on the revenant and give skill 6 a new functionality underwater.

It’s pretty clear, though, that ArenaNet has pretty much abandoned underwater combat for the time being. They probably simply reached ‘minimum viable product’ for underwater revenant and stopped there.

I think it’s a lore thing… Dwarves are made of stone and Glint’s made of crystal making them both quite un-boyant.

This is just a theory though, but if you look at other classes and the skills that they can’t use underwater, it’s all things like fire skills and poison clouds and other things that wouldn’t make sense underwater.

I don’t think it’s an actual problem with getting the skills to work though, because Unyielding Anguish (ground targeted travel skill) and Embrace the Darkness (area of effect around the caster) both have functioning underwater versions.

narcx.3570:

I think it’s a lore thing… Dwarves are made of stone and Glint’s made of crystal making them both quite un-boyant.

This is just a theory though, but if you look at other classes and the skills that they can’t use underwater, it’s all things like fire skills and poison clouds and other things that wouldn’t make sense underwater.

I don’t think it’s an actual problem with getting the skills to work though, because Unyielding Anguish (ground targeted travel skill) and Embrace the Darkness (area of effect around the caster) both have functioning underwater versions.

But there was a time when Facets would work underwater, so long as you activated them on land. You utilities would be disabled by you’d still pulse said boons. Anet sadly fixed it however.

Another prime example of a lack in resources. They don’t have the budget to fix these kind of things. It’s sad.

Pyriall.1683:

Another prime example of a lack in resources. They don’t have the budget to fix these kind of things. It’s sad.

Well I’m no coder, but given that Facet of Nature works underwater and is mechanically the same as the other dragon stance skills, I wouldn’t think it would take too much to allow it.
Also to those saying Anet doesn’t want to give any attention to underwater skills, last balance patch they made changes to underwater Mesmer phantasm skills.

Lahmia.2193:

Also to those saying Anet doesn’t want to give any attention to underwater skills, last balance patch they made changes to underwater Mesmer phantasm skills.

This may come across as overly cynical, but that may simply be a matter of maintaining plausible deniability. Since they’d updated all of the other phantasm skills over time to have an effect on casting beyond simply summoning the phantasm, it would have been really obvious that they’d abandoned underwater skills altogether if they’d left the underwater phantasms as they were.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ventari isn’t available because the tablet really can’t work underwater.

That’s silly.

It would only require one small change to one of Ventari’s abilities – Ventari’s Will.

Instead of moving the tablet to the selected location, which isn’t possible underwater, have it flip between moving to your selected enemy target or yourself.

It would be that easy.

Zaoda.1653:

…if I recall correctly, to my knowledge, have access to their kits/elements/shatters etc.

It varies widely between professions.

Revenant is probably the worst with 60% of our utilities unavailable. For a very long time guardians had no elites they could use UW except for racials. I just read that necros still lose their elite pet every time they go UW.

Everyone gets screwed a little bit.

Engineers seem to get screwed the least though and many of their abilities are cleverly and simply transformed to function perfectly UW. Several kits even work almost identically UW as they do on the ground.

Why the same isn’t done for other professions is a mystery.

One of the biggest insults to Revenants. It’s truly silly, and I’ve made a thread on this myself. Jalis and Glint need underwater access. (I don’t even care if they make the glint aoe pulsing attack melee range)

Honestly Underwater is so abandoned at this point, this is just one more checkbox in an endless list of “is underwater off the development table” list.

Carighan.6758:

Honestly Underwater is so abandoned at this point, this is just one more checkbox in an endless list of “is underwater off the development table” list.

Thank god for that. In pvp underwater battle is horribly inbalanced and in pve it is horribly annoying.

Zaoda.1653:

Why is there no Glint, Ventari and Dwarf stance for underwater combat?

This is crap by design. You start with dwarf, nothing else. First underwater mission and you are screwed, because you have no healing skill and no utility skills. Thanks for great leveling experience anet.

vove.2768:

Carighan.6758:

Honestly Underwater is so abandoned at this point, this is just one more checkbox in an endless list of “is underwater off the development table” list.

Thank god for that. In pvp underwater battle is horribly inbalanced and in pve it is horribly annoying.

Zaoda.1653:

Why is there no Glint, Ventari and Dwarf stance for underwater combat?

This is crap by design. You start with dwarf, nothing else. First underwater mission and you are screwed, because you have no healing skill and no utility skills. Thanks for great leveling experience anet.

They could atleast put jalis underwater. Without glint and ventari could live.

Caeledh.5437:

Zaoda.1653:

…if I recall correctly, to my knowledge, have access to their kits/elements/shatters etc.

It varies widely between professions.

Revenant is probably the worst with 60% of our utilities unavailable. For a very long time guardians had no elites they could use UW except for racials. I just read that necros still lose their elite pet every time they go UW.

Everyone gets screwed a little bit.

Engineers seem to get screwed the least though and many of their abilities are cleverly and simply transformed to function perfectly UW. Several kits even work almost identically UW as they do on the ground.

Why the same isn’t done for other professions is a mystery.

I forgot about necro minions being lost underwater. I don’t understand why Anet can’t make minions survive UW too, since rangers have pets that can go UW. Not all of them, but at least they aren’t lost UW.

Most minions survive underwater, as long as you have the minions on your underwater skillbar. Flesh Golem is the exception, because Flesh Golem doesn’t have an underwater version.

Why Flesh Golem doesn’t have an underwater version, I don’t know.

vove.2768:

Thank god for that. In pvp underwater battle is horribly inbalanced and in pve it is horribly annoying.

Honestly PvP itself is so imbalanced, it hardly makes a difference any more. And meh, I liked PvE underwater combat due to the added complexity of 360° combat, there’s a lot of design space to make truly terrifying content areas with, since underwater restricts you so much.

Sadly underwater combat is not that unimportant if you are in wvw. If I am not on my rev , and if I see an enemy rev, I usually bait him to fight under water, as I know he is weaker there. A good rev can manage himself/herself under water, but usually people cannot change their rhytm so easily.

And another sad news; there have been so many bugs, fix &adjustment needs for rev for so long. I have no hope to see a good fix until the next xpac.