Guild Wars 2

Okay so I really need to get this out of my system.
There have been a couple threads detailing how revenants are mostly weak to condis, and I always though “well, slot mallyx which is what you’re supposed to do to deal with condis”.
But now even this doesn’t stand true. The canges to Mallyx are just not okay. I understand them trying to help us in case we had allies around, but what about when we didn’t? Mallyx was meant to be the counter to condis, taking them on you and sending them back. Most condi builds don’t run many condi cleanses themselves which made them vulnerable to Embrace the Darkness. Now there’s no point in using Pain Absorption, Mallyx doesn’t even have a condi removal to begin with because YOU WANTED THOSE CONDIS ON YOU. That was the whole point of the legend and the elite.
Let’s say I’m fighting a condi engie, the spams me with granades, what do I do now? Only thing I can do is spam pain absorption for the resistance to keep myself alive but then I have no energy to fight back. Before I would use PA once to get some resistance and then go back on that engie to blow him up with his own medicine. Now I just run around spamming resistance waiting for those condis to wear off unable to do anything with them. I can’t neither remove them nor copy them back.
Even the heal doesn’t make sense, now it’s just like consume conditions except it doesn’t cleanse them at all. The numbers we had before meant if I was doing my job right and taking all those condis from my team I would get a huge heal, which was a way to deal with all those condis if I ran out of resistance.
Mallyx was literaly the hard counter to condis, now it’s just a filler legend.
You may not like it being a hard counter, but that was literaly its role, and was half of your build. They’ve stripped away its identity. This honestly feels like taking boons away from Glint or removing quickness from Impossible Odds. Seriously:
You want to do high damage? Slot shiro
You want to tank and be defensive? Slot Jalis
You want to heal your allies and cleanse condis? Slot Ventari
You want to support allies through boons and some control? Slot Glint
What role does Mallyx fill when slotted? Condi output? At a mease 1 torment per second on an ELITE? You are literaly better off using mace auto than EtD.

This needs to be reverted back asap.

I kind of agree, now the only option is to just sit there and wait for conditions to expire. Can’t even really fight back ha ha. Instead of being at a disadvantage with conditions now we are gonna get steamrolled! Wooo are you ready?!?

On a side note they changed pulsating pestilence to 25%. But now that the whole Mallyx idea has changed why does it simply copy conditions? Why not make it send conditions instead?

I made a post in another thread concerning this, but I’m pretty much in full agreement here. If they were worried about you being adversarial with your allies that are condition cleansing…add in a mechanic to Embrace the Darkness where conditions cannot be cleansed from you while its active?

Personally I don’t even understand where the adversarial view comes from. Say the conditions on you get cleansed. With a condition build you are STILL applying conditions in other ways, and it still gives you a 10% stat boost even with nothing on you.

I think a better design rather than the currently broken implementation they announced would be have it actually act as a condition support role. Pull conditions from allies actively so those allies that would normally be having to run a bunch of condition cleanse can instead slot something else. It’s another way of approaching a situation…not everything has to be the same. I thought Guild Wars 2 was all about doing things in new and interesting ways, thus the lack of the tank/healer/dps roles?

With this change we might as well have the heal on Mallyx clear all your conditions after you use them for the extra heals.

Trait for condi copy got buffed by 100%, at least wait to test it out.

Feedback is generally ignored before BW and it’s a wise decision.

Kidel.2057:

Trait for condi copy got buffed by 100%, at least wait to test it out.

Feedback is generally ignored before BW and it’s a wise decision.

yes but iwth 15s CD, good luck time that with a condi spike to be useful!

Well now, if i understand well, Mallyx become the condition dealer legend and corruption line is must have with Replenishing Despair for deal with condis?

Edit: How are going to work corruption line now? Demonic defiance with resistance on Mallyx utilities is now useless. Bolstered Anguish and maniacal persistance are pretty useless too coz it only work with some conditions on you so just rely on other dealing you conditions? Meh…

Condi are going to eat you alive

gannondorf.7628:

Well now, if i understand well, Mallyx become the condition dealer legend and corruption line is must have with Replenishing Despair for deal with condis?

Edit: How are going to work corruption line now? Demonic defiance with resistance on Mallyx utilities is now useless. Bolstered Anguish and maniacal persistance are pretty useless too coz it only work with some conditions on you so just rely on other dealing you conditions? Meh…

Demonic Defiance isn’t useless. It still works the same if you’re facing a condition-heavy (spelled D/D Ele) mongo cleave, although it lost all of it’s internal synergy with anything, similary to basically whole Mallyx and Corruption specialization.

Maniacal Persistence stays as it is, so in pretty crappy position considering our design is all about frequent hits with rather good gapclosing. Not affected. It’s Pestilience that lost all internal synergy and works pretty much as very poor version of RNG Epidemic if you have someone kind enough to put some conditions of any good value on you (and hugs you every 15s).

Bolstered Anguish lost it’s all internal synergy also, so while it’s a nice trait, it again is only worth anything if you face condition-heavy cleaves or stand in fire.

Honestly, thinking about it now, if the idea with copying conditions and keeping them on yourself turned out to be bad…they should’ve re-worked half of Corruption specialization or just get rid of both Mallyx and Corruption and replace them with something else.

It has lost it’s flavour, idea, synergy, logic, damage, utility. Basically, only bare bones are left here and there with some generic stuff.

Rym.1469:

Honestly, thinking about it now, if the idea with copying conditions and keeping them on yourself turned out to be bad…they should’ve re-worked half of Corruption specialization or just get rid of both Mallyx and Corruption and replace them with something else.

It has lost it’s flavour, idea, synergy, logic, damage, utility. Basically, only bare bones are left here and there with some generic stuff.

Yeah that’s what i want to point too.
It’s stupid coz revenant was in good spot last bw and all others changes are good but mallyx one pretty hurt the revenant in heart. Now it’s more than even a condition victim, having barelly nothing to clean conditions (your best tools still Jailis heal making it nearly a must have, invocation trait line for clean a condition all 10s when changing legend, staff 4 and corruption with replenishing despair for not clean but resist a little more to condi), and corruption trait line is just completly destroyed…
At last if mallyx really need those changes change corruption line completly for making it a condi cleaner of resist more to conditions. When mesmer can take inspi o engi alchemy revenant still have nothing, and pretty much really nothing after change on Mallyx.

Had an idea that maybe making Embrace the darkness convert conditions to boons when active could maybe salvage the elite.

Actually Mallyx didn’t lose any tools to deal with conditions.

1. The primary tool, Resistance, is still there in every form. It’s there as Demonic Resistance and it’s there on Pain Absorption. As always it continues to be the mandatory take for Mallyx/Corruption. This means we lose out on more condi output from Venom Enhancement and more condi “management” from Replenishing Despair. To be honest it should be made base line and the whole line reviewed cause it lacks clear order (IE: Condi offense Trait, Boon trait, Condi defense Trait) in each tier.

2. The copy conditions means we lost condition output off of Darkness cause we no longer copy conditions. However copy conditions never removed conditions (IE: Transfer) it simply copied what you had. You still had to keep them on you.

3. We gained more base conditions because Unyielding Anguish now always applies torment and chill each tick, AOE which will allow us to force dodges for people to get out of it or sit in it and eat Chill/Torment. We also gained an extra stack of Confusion on Banish Enchantment.

4. The heal we got in Malyx just became stronger regardless of condition status. Before it required a lot of Condis to really shine, now it doesn’t, but it also doesn’t shine as much with condis. This makes it a strong alternative to the powerful Jalis heal as well with a more offensive tool set (I personally hate pairing up Shiro/Glint because the two super weak heals and always took Malyx/Jalis with Shiro/Glint).

So our biggest changes were to condition output and not management. Over all I think the net result will end up being we will suffer against high condition opponents compared to previously but do better against lower/no condition opponents because we’re able to stack more Torment now.

It never removed conditions I agree, but it kept people from stacking more onto you because it would hurt them as well. Now there is no way to fight back.

Kodiak.3281:

So our biggest changes were to condition output and not management. Over all I think the net result will end up being we will suffer against high condition opponents compared to previously but do better against lower/no condition opponents because we’re able to stack more Torment now.

This is exactly what I mean. You could take Mallyx to fight back condi builds (WHICH IS WHAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO IN THE FIRST PLACE), but now you’re better off slotting shiro and killing them before they kill you. Wow, fun. Now we’re exactly like any other class in the game. EtD made Mallyx the true, should’ve-been-on-the-necro, attrition based playstyle.

Kodiak.3281:

Actually Mallyx didn’t lose any tools to deal with conditions.

1. The primary tool, Resistance, is still there in every form. It’s there as Demonic Resistance and it’s there on Pain Absorption. As always it continues to be the mandatory take for Mallyx/Corruption. This means we lose out on more condi output from Venom Enhancement and more condi “management” from Replenishing Despair. To be honest it should be made base line and the whole line reviewed cause it lacks clear order (IE: Condi offense Trait, Boon trait, Condi defense Trait) in each tier.

2. The copy conditions means we lost condition output off of Darkness cause we no longer copy conditions. However copy conditions never removed conditions (IE: Transfer) it simply copied what you had. You still had to keep them on you.

3. We gained more base conditions because Unyielding Anguish now always applies torment and chill each tick, AOE which will allow us to force dodges for people to get out of it or sit in it and eat Chill/Torment. We also gained an extra stack of Confusion on Banish Enchantment.

4. The heal we got in Malyx just became stronger regardless of condition status. Before it required a lot of Condis to really shine, now it doesn’t, but it also doesn’t shine as much with condis. This makes it a strong alternative to the powerful Jalis heal as well with a more offensive tool set (I personally hate pairing up Shiro/Glint because the two super weak heals and always took Malyx/Jalis with Shiro/Glint).

So our biggest changes were to condition output and not management. Over all I think the net result will end up being we will suffer against high condition opponents compared to previously but do better against lower/no condition opponents because we’re able to stack more Torment now.

I think the idea was that Mallyx was meant to be more of a counter to high condition damage/low condition removal specs like Condi Engi and Condi Mesmer than just a buffer against conditions in general. Now you can’t really do much against those builds because their condition output will always exceed your resistance uptime.

Black Box.9312:

I think the idea was that Mallyx was meant to be more of a counter to high condition damage/low condition removal specs like Condi Engi and Condi Mesmer than just a buffer against conditions in general. Now you can’t really do much against those builds because their condition output will always exceed your resistance uptime.

But that idea was, ultimately, viewed as flawed because (and I’m just going off what Roy said) too niche. It only performed incredibly well in that niche heavy condition scenario. In other scenarios, such as light to no conditions, it was under performing because there wasn’t as much stand-alone condition output (something that was increased). In addition, your own team worked against you in team scenarios where you’d want to pile up heavy conditions onto yourself but any kind of group AOE cleanse would actually hurt your performance because that was less conditions you could transfer. That’s not easily addressed in a team environment because it’s not like you are targeting who is and isn’t affected by your 600 range AOE cleanse.

While there is, somewhat, an argument about the idea of condition management through punishing people who use conditions on you there other ways to achieve it. For example my ideas would be:

1. I would fold Pulsing Pestilence into Embrace the Darkness by default, but leave it at 15% with same ICD.

2. I would replace Pulsing Pestilence with “Mirrored Torment” where anytime you receive a condition (bleed, burn, poison, cripple, chill, torment, weakness, vulnerability)(notice I left some out) a similar condition is also put on the source (5s ICD).

Kodiak.3281:

Black Box.9312:

I think the idea was that Mallyx was meant to be more of a counter to high condition damage/low condition removal specs like Condi Engi and Condi Mesmer than just a buffer against conditions in general. Now you can’t really do much against those builds because their condition output will always exceed your resistance uptime.

But that idea was, ultimately, viewed as flawed because (and I’m just going off what Roy said) too niche. It only performed incredibly well in that niche heavy condition scenario. In other scenarios, such as light to no conditions, it was under performing because there wasn’t as much stand-alone condition output (something that was increased). In addition, your own team worked against you in team scenarios where you’d want to pile up heavy conditions onto yourself but any kind of group AOE cleanse would actually hurt your performance because that was less conditions you could transfer. That’s not easily addressed in a team environment because it’s not like you are targeting who is and isn’t affected by your 600 range AOE cleanse.

While there is, somewhat, an argument about the idea of condition management through punishing people who use conditions on you there other ways to achieve it. For example my ideas would be:

1. I would fold Pulsing Pestilence into Embrace the Darkness by default, but leave it at 15% with same ICD.

2. I would replace Pulsing Pestilence with “Mirrored Torment” where anytime you receive a condition (bleed, burn, poison, cripple, chill, torment, weakness, vulnerability)(notice I left some out) a similar condition is also put on the source (5s ICD).

Okay.

Then use it in those specific niche situations, and then don’t use it when you don’t need it.

Wow, that was simple.

I feel like the devs treat a weakness to conditions like it’s the same as a weakness to kiting builds. Unfortunately, that is very wrong. Being weak to conditions means that you’re basically helpless against half of the damage spectrum. Just as an example, there aren’t any classes who are helpless against power builds. It just wouldn’t be acceptable. Imagine how bad ele would be against power if they removed all of the ele’s protection. People would riot. Conditions are not a secondary aspect of a build. They should not be treated like mobility or CC. All classes deserve decent options to combat condis.

Black Box.9312:

Okay.

Then use it in those specific niche situations, and then don’t use it when you don’t need it.

Wow, that was simple.

Except, it really isn’t. You may have one SPvP match with that in there, next one have none. You can’t afford to half-n-half the gear and with Mallyx you’re either full Condi or not and full condi in the scenario where you face no conditions wasn’t enough. Not really feasible to go half in or half out depending on the scenario, either.

We still have resistance dude. We only lost the copy condition part but other than that Mallyx is how it was before. Mallyx still manages conditions the way it did before but now you cant send conditions that you have on you back out. Mallyx gained a lot for losing the condition copy it had going for it.

Kodiak.3281:

Black Box.9312:

Okay.

Then use it in those specific niche situations, and then don’t use it when you don’t need it.

Wow, that was simple.

Except, it really isn’t. You may have one SPvP match with that in there, next one have none. You can’t afford to half-n-half the gear and with Mallyx you’re either full Condi or not and full condi in the scenario where you face no conditions wasn’t enough. Not really feasible to go half in or half out depending on the scenario, either.

I found hybrid (or cele as it’s more commonly known) glint mallyx extremely viable. I wouldn’t use mallyx against a non condi build but the amount of builds that don’t use conditions is almost none. Sure it may not be their main source of damage but everyone’s got something even if it is just a cripple. For instance thieves bring panic strike which immobs and steal poisons and weakens so you send those back and its going to get them. The only class I know that really doesn’t inflict any conditions is a gs/ham warrior but even they do weakness and cripple which is mean for them specifically. The real weakness to it wasn’t no conditions but boon rip cause when they resistance goes down you do too.

Kodiak.3281:

Black Box.9312:

Okay.

Then use it in those specific niche situations, and then don’t use it when you don’t need it.

Wow, that was simple.

Except, it really isn’t. You may have one SPvP match with that in there, next one have none. You can’t afford to half-n-half the gear and with Mallyx you’re either full Condi or not and full condi in the scenario where you face no conditions wasn’t enough. Not really feasible to go half in or half out depending on the scenario, either.

I’d like to give an example from my Revenant build during the last beta weekend. I’ll use the pvp example. Used Marauder amulet (so Power, Precision, mix Ferocity and Vitality). Trait lines chosen were Devastation, Retribution, Corruption. Legends slotted were Shiro and Mally. Weapons were Sword/Axe and Hammer.

I like to think of this as an incredibly balanced build. Most of the time I stayed in Shiro while dealing damage because it was highly mobile. However, when I faced people using conditions (and let’s be honest, in the current state of pvp, they’re like a plague of locusts), I would swap into Mally and thus be able to combat them. I gave up mobility for this, but it gave me a recourse for actually fighting successfully against them. Condi trap rangers were the best to go against like this, because they have tremendous condi spike damage.

This didn’t mean I couldn’t die to condition classes. It happened. And in team fights, sometimes giving up that mobility meant I got dropped pretty quick before I could swap back. But it meant I wasn’t just fodder for them, which I would have been without Mally and the beautiful thing that was Embrace the Darkness. This build quickly made Revenant my favorite class by far, because I was fairly decent in any given situation.

More to the point, I never felt like I was kitten going against teams without any condition heavy classes. And the couple times I did? Know what I could do? Swap Legends out while maintaining the generally useful traits from the Corruption line. So no, you don’t kitten yourself in those rare times that you aren’t facing condition classes.

Kodiak.3281:

Black Box.9312:

Okay.

Then use it in those specific niche situations, and then don’t use it when you don’t need it.

Wow, that was simple.

Except, it really isn’t. You may have one SPvP match with that in there, next one have none. You can’t afford to half-n-half the gear and with Mallyx you’re either full Condi or not and full condi in the scenario where you face no conditions wasn’t enough. Not really feasible to go half in or half out depending on the scenario, either.

Are you kidding? Hybrid builds are absolutely perfect on Revenant. Just slot a carrion amulet and get some fury uptime and/or Maniacal Persistence and you’re good to go.

i’m not sure what all this talk of condition removal supports cleansing you harmed you is about. the way I see it, the condis on you will do damage. whilst they’re on, sure you’re stronger, but you can’t constantly have a full row of conditions on you or you’ll die. you can copy them to your enemies, but as far as I knew this didn’t remove them.

all they need to do is make it so condi’s can’t be cleansed whilst in Embrace the Darkness, giving a choice to the masochistic Malyx rev’s of ’i’ll sit this whole row of condi’s and pop my heal skill/etc. so I can copy them back to the enemy and get the damage buff’ and whilst they’re not going full Demon monkey mode, they can be cleansed like everyone else.

That condi copy trait is useless. It may proc when you have just 1 condi but be on ICD when a second later you got 5 on yourself.

Should be 100% chance with 15s ICD with a thresold of 3 condis on rev to activate the trait.

Killyox.3950:

That condi copy trait is useless. It may proc when you have just 1 condi but be on ICD when a second later you got 5 on yourself.

Should be 100% chance with 15s ICD with a thresold of 3 condis on rev to activate the trait.

and this, sir, is pretty kitten good suggestion

Gaaroth.2567:

Killyox.3950:

That condi copy trait is useless. It may proc when you have just 1 condi but be on ICD when a second later you got 5 on yourself.

Should be 100% chance with 15s ICD with a thresold of 3 condis on rev to activate the trait.

and this, sir, is pretty kitten good suggestion

I second that.

Demented Yak.6105:

Gaaroth.2567:

Killyox.3950:

That condi copy trait is useless. It may proc when you have just 1 condi but be on ICD when a second later you got 5 on yourself.

Should be 100% chance with 15s ICD with a thresold of 3 condis on rev to activate the trait.

and this, sir, is pretty kitten good suggestion

I second that.

Except you’ll never have 3 condis on you because obviously your allies will be cleansing them!

Mallyx was only a hard counter to condi builds if you were running condi dmg yourself because the transferd condis are based on your condi dmg.
Always said there is a problem for power based revs with condis but nobody really cares. Specially if you are in a team fight were condis are flieing around everywhere. Rev is in pvp more or less meele so having no condi remove isn’t a option. We saw it at warrior and we would have saw it on engi elite spec (but oh wait look they are getting more condi remove what a miracle) ^^

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Demented Yak.6105:

Gaaroth.2567:

Killyox.3950:

That condi copy trait is useless. It may proc when you have just 1 condi but be on ICD when a second later you got 5 on yourself.

Should be 100% chance with 15s ICD with a thresold of 3 condis on rev to activate the trait.

and this, sir, is pretty kitten good suggestion

I second that.

Except you’ll never have 3 condis on you because obviously your allies will be cleansing them!

I see what you did there

Valfaros.6908:

Mallyx was only a hard counter to condi builds if you were running condi dmg yourself because the transferd condis are based on your condi dmg.

Wow someone who knows how it works :o

The Mallyx Rev who has their condis constantly cleared must of played on a team with 4 bunker shout guardians.