Guild Wars 2

I’ve been playing power rev for quite some time now (mainly in WvW, roaming).

And I’ve been experiencing over and over again how impossible it is to properly cleanse conditions against many of these condi bunker bombs (especially mesmer).

It has gotten to the point where ist basically mandatory to run the sigil of cleansing on atleast one of your weapons and even then the 1 condition removed is still random.
(that one stack of vulnerability gets removed instead of the high stacked torment/confusion)

Yes, I’m using staff and yes I do know it has one ability (staff 4) to remove 2 conditions, but the casttime is so painfully slow compared to the time the enemy needs to apply or reapply tons of conditions, that he most likely even randomly cc’s you while you try to cast it, ending with the power rev having lost like half of his hp already when he finally finished casting that single ability.

I’m not asking for more passive condi cleansing through abilities or traits, but I’d really like to see the cast time of staff 4 to be decreased so you can actually use it reactively and not be cc’ed on it every single time.

Sure you can stow the weapon to fake cast it, so you wont get cc’ed on it, but since it’s the only proper condi cleanse I’ve got in that situation, it will just hurt me even more ‘cause I’ll need to wait additional time for interrupting the cast and then start that slow casting ability again. Meanwhile the conditions run rampant on me and I’m most certainly going to end up dead at that point.

Yes, I know that power rev does pretty well against most other power builds, but that doesn’t mean we should just straight up get steamrolled by any properly played condi build.

Edit: The reason I’m posting this right now is, that I was actually hoping for anet to adress that issue somehow in the latest patch, but instead revenant received damage buffs, which were, in my opinion, obsolete, when it comes to WvW.
PvE is a whole ’nother Story, of course.

-Sincerely your jaded power rev

Rev’s are notoriously weak to conditions. When they made the class, they decided this should be it’s weakness. They just made it too glaring.

Cygnus.6903:

Rev’s are notoriously weak to conditions. When they made the class, they decided this should be it’s weakness. They just made it too glaring.

That’s the point.
A class shouldn’t be strong all around in every aspect, but that doesn’t mean this class shouldn’t be able to deal with that one aspect, that’s supposed to be it’s weakness, in any way at all, no matter what you’re doing.

Every class should have it’s weakness, but please don’t make it literally impossible to deal with that weakness.

Couldn’t agree more. Classes should have weaknesses(some barely do) but not obvious delete buttons. Revs have more weaknesses then any class..perhaps they would’ve been justified if they actually stuck with their original design of the class but they didn’t. They scrapped the whole idea and left the weaknesses with zero compensation. The few ways we have to deal with these weaknesses are all pathetically weak and resource expensive. Effectively keeping us from doing anything meaningful in a fight when we actually get any kind of pressure.

Crayth.3276:

I’m not asking for more passive condi cleansing through abilities or traits, but I’d really like to see the cast time of staff 4 to be decreased so you can actually use it reactively and not be cc’ed on it every single time.

A shorter cast would be nice.

One thing to help you,
Use Riposting Shadows to clear cripple/chill/immobilize first if they are present. It also has the benefit of moving you out of harms way to get that staff 4 cast off.

I know you don’t wanna read it but you really just need to be avoiding heavy condi bursts with solid evades.

Justine.6351:

Crayth.3276:

I’m not asking for more passive condi cleansing through abilities or traits, but I’d really like to see the cast time of staff 4 to be decreased so you can actually use it reactively and not be cc’ed on it every single time.

A shorter cast would be nice.

One thing to help you,
Use Riposting Shadows to clear cripple/chill/immobilize first if they are present. It also has the benefit of moving you out of harms way to get that staff 4 cast off.

I know you don’t wanna read it but you really just need to be avoiding heavy condi bursts with solid evades.

Oh, yea I definitely do know about Riposting Shadows, but theres still too many cover condis.
But the overuse of Riposting Shadows is just going to get you either into a stalemate or it’s just going to delay the inevitable.
The 30 energy cost is also a factor. (And no I’m not saying that it should be lowered.)

Sorry, didn’t mean to sound negative about everything.

And don’t get me wrong, I’m open for advice.
The thing is, I’ve been heavily focusing on blocking/evading the condi bursts,
but even if I’m able to avoid them, there’s still 2 ways they are able to apply loads of condis, depending on their class obviously.

If I’m able to properly avoid the telegraphed condi bursts and I’m able to go on to the offensive, they can either (again, depending on the class or build)

- apply enough pressure through their passive condi traits/runes, that make them able to either apply pressure by using minor bursts/abilities, you can’t avoid anymore since you’ve already been trying to avoid the big condi bursts or just straight up passive “apply x when struck” traits/runes (most prominent here is obviously perplexity).
This alone often applies enough pressure to force you back into the defensive, from which you most likely won’t be able to recover anymore.

or

- use abilities, that apply lots of pressure and are not telegraphed at all, so the avoid game is all up to predicting, when it will happen.
So pretty much you need to be lucky, if your enemy is atleast mediocre at playing his build.

I’m definitely not opposed to the idea of preemptively working against condis, so I don’t have to cleanse them, obviously.
But especially in those cases you’re just bound to have something up your sleeves that works reactively or you end up dying in most cases.

Again, I don’t want really anything about power rev to be changed, except for that 1 ability on staff.
I just feel like I need to point that out again, so people don’t get the impression of me saying rev is weak or anything, it’s definitely not.

Thanks for your reply and adding your thoughts to the discussion.

Cygnus.6903:

Rev’s are notoriously weak to conditions. When they made the class, they decided this should be it’s weakness. They just made it too glaring.

may I ask then, what is the strong side of a revenant?

Garr.1823:

Cygnus.6903:

Rev’s are notoriously weak to conditions. When they made the class, they decided this should be it’s weakness. They just made it too glaring.

may I ask then, what is the strong side of a revenant?

Imo, regarding WvW roaming, they are quite good at facing power builds in general and usually can melt through tankier ones too. Well timed heals and evades + blocks make for some crazy sustain in power controlled fights.
With the exception of thieves though, they just shut down rev or kite him, but that’s not a rev only related thing.

this what i run for zerging on rev http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApeinfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMsklZlxO6s/edjQGRNgDaA-TFSDABy/EAtAhq+jhKBzS5HAnAAHOEA/v/ge6CIFgfTtA-w it a support build

Taobella.6597:

this what i run for zerging on rev http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApeinfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMsklZlxO6s/edjQGRNgDaA-TFSDABy/EAtAhq+jhKBzS5HAnAAHOEA/v/ge6CIFgfTtA-w it a support build

I think you SLIGHTLY missed the point of this topic.

Crayth.3276:

Taobella.6597:

this what i run for zerging on rev http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApeinfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMsklZlxO6s/edjQGRNgDaA-TFSDABy/EAtAhq+jhKBzS5HAnAAHOEA/v/ge6CIFgfTtA-w it a support build

I think you SLIGHTLY missed the point of this topic.

point of the topic was rev lack con removal. that build has all con removal in world lol.

Taobella.6597:

Crayth.3276:

Taobella.6597:

this what i run for zerging on rev http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApeinfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMsklZlxO6s/edjQGRNgDaA-TFSDABy/EAtAhq+jhKBzS5HAnAAHOEA/v/ge6CIFgfTtA-w it a support build

I think you SLIGHTLY missed the point of this topic.

point of the topic was rev lack con removal. that build has all con removal in world lol.

Neither did I ask for a certain build suggestion nor did I ask for a zerging one, a support one and especially not a condi one.

This topic is about power rev, if you would kindly read the title of this thread.
And roaming, not zerging.

Crayth.3276:

Imo, regarding WvW roaming, they are quite good at facing power builds in general and usually can melt through tankier ones too. Well timed heals and evades + blocks make for some crazy sustain in power controlled fights.
With the exception of thieves though, they just shut down rev or kite him, but that’s not a rev only related thing.

To be honest I have problems with good power warriors – too many stun/knockdown skills.
Condi warriors are usually not so dangerous.

The condi cleanse on sigil of cleansing is not random. Say you have it on staff(you should). It will proc when you swap into staff or if you’re already in staff, proc when you swap legend. Getting off that staff 4 can be made easier/faster with sigil of agility if you want to give up a sigil slot.

You will still have trouble with condis. Roaming as a power rev, the best you can hope for is a race to the bottom as the longer a fight takes against a condi class like say, mesmer, the more likely you are to lose. Traiting Malicious Reprisal or using Phase traversal during the block chain is a good way to tip the fight in your favor. Overall, I’d just avoid them if I can.

Set.7461:

The condi cleanse on sigil of cleansing is not random. Say you have it on staff(you should). It will proc when you swap into staff or if you’re already in staff, proc when you swap legend. Getting off that staff 4 can be made easier/faster with sigil of agility if you want to give up a sigil slot.
————-.

Pretty sure he means its random which condition is removed not random in how it triggers.

Garr.1823:

Crayth.3276:

Imo, regarding WvW roaming, they are quite good at facing power builds in general and usually can melt through tankier ones too. Well timed heals and evades + blocks make for some crazy sustain in power controlled fights.
With the exception of thieves though, they just shut down rev or kite him, but that’s not a rev only related thing.

To be honest I have problems with good power warriors – too many stun/knockdown skills.
Condi warriors are usually not so dangerous.

Power warriors are quite easy to deal with, as soon as you get their stun timings down.
It’s all gonna be about reactively using your blocks or glint blind to deny their stuns and when they’re out of stuns you can just outburst his damage.
This way you still have your dodges to avoid certain damage periods.

They are quite telegraphed in pretty much all they do, which is why dueling warriors is a good way to practice reactive dodging based on visual or audio tells instead of random dodging.

That’s atleast how I do it.

Datenshi.2765:

Set.7461:

The condi cleanse on sigil of cleansing is not random. Say you have it on staff(you should). It will proc when you swap into staff or if you’re already in staff, proc when you swap legend. Getting off that staff 4 can be made easier/faster with sigil of agility if you want to give up a sigil slot.
————-.

Pretty sure he means its random which condition is removed not random in how it triggers.

Yes, that’s exactly what I was talking about, sorry I didn’t make it more obvious.
Thought it already was obvious enough, since sigil of cleansing has a 100% proc chance on weapon swap.

Have you ever tought of using Ventari Legend in wvw? It have a strong insta cast condi removal with a 5 sec cooldown.

Tycko Larsson.7829:

Have you ever tought of using Ventari Legend in wvw? It have a strong insta cast condi removal with a 5 sec cooldown.

Yes, I have thought about it, but thats sacrificing both too much survivability and damage at the same time, by either giving up on shiro or glint.
Also using a legend just because of it’s condi cleanse capabilities won’t make the whole situation any better.
In addition you will miss out on a lot of mobility using the centaur stance.
(Managing the tablet is going to render you quite immobile on the open field, when playing alone)

Condi removal for a power rev yes is kind of saddening. As a main power rev that roams, I used to have to rely on glints heal and burst them as fast as I could.
With the new update, I’ve been messing with an almost perma immob, unblock chains, lots of taunt, and rupts. (Grasping darkness, jade winds, staff 2 and 5). (All on a core rev BTW). With a consumable that does 5% less condi DMG, plus vengeful hammers(25% DMG reduction) and the hammers healing (only do this when they are low or are sticking to you in melee).

Side note: ik you were probably not asking for builds or what have you. But that’s what I’ve been doing)

Jarettellis.7813:

Condi removal for a power rev yes is kind of saddening. As a main power rev that roams, I used to have to rely on glints heal and burst them as fast as I could.
With the new update, I’ve been messing with an almost perma immob, unblock chains, lots of taunt, and rupts. (Grasping darkness, jade winds, staff 2 and 5). (All on a core rev BTW). With a consumable that does 5% less condi DMG, plus vengeful hammers(25% DMG reduction) and the hammers healing (only do this when they are low or are sticking to you in melee).

Side note: ik you were probably not asking for builds or what have you. But that’s what I’ve been doing)

Oh, I’m definitely not opposed to suggestions in terms of builds and all that, it should just stay on topic. (as in specifically power rev and roaming build)

So thanks for throwing in some thoughts.

I’ve been trying out the Invocation traitline with condi removal on legend swap and I’ve put in another cleansing sigil into my shield, so I’ve got 1 in my staff and 1 in my sword/shield weaponset.
Even been considering to get rid of the air sigil in sword instead of the energy sigil, since the the damage output of rev should still be good without the air sigil.

Been doing better against condis, than with the retribution traitline, but the fundamental problem still persists, in which you can’t properly react, when you happen to not be able to avoid the condi bomb or passively applied conditions even.

A halfed cast time on staff 4 would change so many things.

Cygnus.6903:

Rev’s are notoriously weak to conditions. When they made the class, they decided this should be it’s weakness. They just made it too glaring.

So they build a game almost entirely around condition damage.
Then they create a class that’s weak to what they built the game around?

I almost completely retired my revenant for solo and most roaming. Unless you have the party comp, its always an uphill battle as 90% of the solo roaming fights you face are either power thief or some condition build, both hard countering revenant. Revenant has to rely on allies to overcome those weaknesses, and when you’re pugging or solo it just doesn’t pan out great.

Since S/D thief was brought back last patch, I’ve switched mains back to that. Better tactics with the repeat engagements thanks to sword 2, better condition clear even without escapists absolution, less obvious and more flexible play style, more mobility, and boon rip.

Crayth.3276:

Yes, I have thought about it, but thats sacrificing both too much survivability and damage at the same time, by either giving up on shiro or glint.
Also using a legend just because of it’s condi cleanse capabilities won’t make the whole situation any better.
In addition you will miss out on a lot of mobility using the centaur stance.
(Managing the tablet is going to render you quite immobile on the open field, when playing alone)

This is kinda how Rev is built though. The legends heavily define the roles you choose to take. If you want more condition cleanse on any class, you’ll need to make some trade-offs. Ventari and Mallyx are what give Revenants condition defense, just like Mesmer getting theirs from Mantras and Inspiration, or Engineers with Elixirs and Alchemy. It all depends on how much you’re willing to invest to get the results you want.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Crayth.3276:

Yes, I have thought about it, but thats sacrificing both too much survivability and damage at the same time, by either giving up on shiro or glint.
Also using a legend just because of it’s condi cleanse capabilities won’t make the whole situation any better.
In addition you will miss out on a lot of mobility using the centaur stance.
(Managing the tablet is going to render you quite immobile on the open field, when playing alone)

This is kinda how Rev is built though. The legends heavily define the roles you choose to take. If you want more condition cleanse on any class, you’ll need to make some trade-offs. Ventari and Mallyx are what give Revenants condition defense, just like Mesmer getting theirs from Mantras and Inspiration, or Engineers with Elixirs and Alchemy. It all depends on how much you’re willing to invest to get the results you want.

One of the issues with this is that you can’t just take the specific things you want as a rev; you have to take the entire bundle of other things that you may have no use for if you want something specific.

An engi can take the elixir that wipes all condi into boons and still run a perfectly fine build with other skills that don’t cripple half its effectiveness. However, if you needed the best access to condi cleanse rev has, then you have to take the rest of the baggage that comes with Ventari when it may be completely useless to you. The amount of investment you have to do with a rev is a bit too much for what can often be simple things, like reliable cleansing. It doesn’t help that in most of these situations the strict role system they had in mind for rev with legends often do not mix well with each other; there is little synergy between lines and legends, which is one big reason Glint is so easy to build around because she can work with pretty much anything.

Faolon.9702:

Cygnus.6903:

Rev’s are notoriously weak to conditions. When they made the class, they decided this should be it’s weakness. They just made it too glaring.

So they build a game almost entirely around condition damage.
Then they create a class that’s weak to what they built the game around?

We’re in a condi heavy meta right now. The game wasn’t built around it specifically, but they are forcing the meta towards it very heavily.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Faolon.9702:

Cygnus.6903:

Rev’s are notoriously weak to conditions. When they made the class, they decided this should be it’s weakness. They just made it too glaring.

So they build a game almost entirely around condition damage.
Then they create a class that’s weak to what they built the game around?

We’re in a condi heavy meta right now. The game wasn’t built around it specifically, but they are forcing the meta towards it very heavily.

Yeah, I’ts not like it happened all of a sudden either.
They’ve been going that route for quite a long time already.

Which is kind of sad, since active power build gameplay compliments this games amazing combat system way more than rather passive condition builds.
But that’s just my opinion.

It might not be an option you want to take, but there is an option to run Lemongrass Poultry Soup and Runes of Hoelbrak which will cut 40% off all incoming condi durations. Yes you give up offensive options but it is a hard counter to condi builds and Rev has good enough offense to cover. With the new Renegade Elite there is also a trait for -33% incoming condi damage.

Elessaria.9142:

It might not be an option you want to take, but there is an option to run Lemongrass Poultry Soup and Runes of Hoelbrak which will cut 40% off all incoming condi durations. Yes you give up offensive options but it is a hard counter to condi builds and Rev has good enough offense to cover. With the new Renegade Elite there is also a trait for -33% incoming condi damage.

Wow, my long post gone… haha I won’t retype it all, but generally.

Baseline: Leamongrass + Hoalbrak = 40% duration reduction
Jalis: 20% (hammers) + 50% (elite) = 60% condition damage reduction
Renegade: 33% (build-up) + 33% (heal) = 55% condition damage reduction

These numbers assume multiplicative effects.

Even without Jalis elite (since it has such a high energy cost), this is a lot of reduced damage from conditions. You can make those crazy condi bombs into tiny tickles… haha

Looking forward to testing this.

Loboling.5293:

Elessaria.9142:

It might not be an option you want to take, but there is an option to run Lemongrass Poultry Soup and Runes of Hoelbrak which will cut 40% off all incoming condi durations. Yes you give up offensive options but it is a hard counter to condi builds and Rev has good enough offense to cover. With the new Renegade Elite there is also a trait for -33% incoming condi damage.

Wow, my long post gone… haha I won’t retype it all, but generally.

Baseline: Leamongrass + Hoalbrak = 40% duration reduction
Jalis: 20% (hammers) + 50% (elite) = 60% condition damage reduction
Renegade: 33% (build-up) + 33% (heal) = 55% condition damage reduction

These numbers assume multiplicative effects.

Even without Jalis elite (since it has such a high energy cost), this is a lot of reduced damage from conditions. You can make those crazy condi bombs into tiny tickles… haha

Looking forward to testing this.

I’ve tested a core version of this with melandru runes and it is very strong. The instant proc of RoTGD at 50% is much better than the randomness we had before. When renegade comes out, my wallet is going to be hurting, but I’ll try a version with antitoxin runes.

A good opener for anyone who want to run it in the meantime is to stay in jalis > RoTGD > Instantly swap to shiro during the cast animation(You will still get the effect) jump in with Phase Traversal(or swd 4 for cheaper port) > Swd 2 depending on what you need. You just save Swd 3 until the buff runs out to get the best effect on it. Whatever damage you take when you jump in is reduced and you should top off your health with a swd 3/legend swap> vengeful hammers.

I’m just curious but is Ventari’s Tablet at all able to keep up with condi cleanse? I am always tempted to try it but I hate trying to micro manage the darn thing.. have you given this a solid try while roaming?

I haven’t but I will say with my past experience with a full nomad’s zerg healer, I would doubt it will work. Even with the new changes to energy expulsion clearing condis, I still think you’ll just die a bit slower.

There’s already lots of condis flying around. While roaming, you’ll fight lots of condi mesmers and now there’s a new s/d condi thief spec that is able to load more effectively than the spammy deathblossom variant. If you take Ventari, you have to give up either shiro or jalis. As much as I love shiro, I can’t make my build work without jalis. Cleaving down clones is important for your sustain and the longer the fight takes, the more it favors the mesmer. But then again, if fights go in your favor, you can’t finish it because you don’t have shiro to catch them.

It definitely won’t hurt to try ventari because the xpac is coming soon and lots of people in my matchup are trying off-meta builds.

For sure, the Revenant is supposed to use unconventional means to meet their goals. I think there are lots of options to deal with condition roamers but the profession definitely lacks in the normal condi cleanses. I’ve used power Rev in PvP a decent amount and it seems to come down to evading the spam or negating it with resistance. There really isnt too much straight cleanse so if you get caught you get screwed…but that kind of makes it fun tbh