I guess the swiftness is cool for out of combat. But almost every class besides mesmer has better party swiftness. Regen facet is pretty useless, might facet is pretty useless, protection facet is strong, just too bad it’s gonna drain too much energy. Unless pve all of a sudden needs aoe reveal I don’t really see a reason to use Glint unless it’s really niche stuff.
In what way to other classes have “better” swiftness and how is might facet “useless”. I’m not sure if you understand how little upkeep those facets are ,but they are far from useless in fact our swiftness Upkeep is better then other classes you literally toggle it on for -1 upkeep and its always there no other action required. None of our other facets are useless other then maybe the Regen one the might one will really help keep people capped.
It’s not about how easy it is to toggle it on and off, it’s about effectiveness. The range on the facets are only 600. Unless the group is running really close to each other the swiftness is not going to be beneficial on every 3 second tick. Warrior has 1,200 range swiftness, Engi has own perm swiftness, Ele can blast perm swiftness easy, etc. Plus you have to stay with the Glint utility set to maintain the facet. Which means no quickness from Shiro… which means you’re giving up DPS… If you’re solo and need the fury and might then yes stay Glint, but if you’re with a group Glint is pretty worthless. Glint utility needs a huge buff for both pve and pvp imo.
I don’t think a buff is needed at all, especially since we haven’t even played the spec. Revenant is not supposed to be equal to other professions in anything, but it’s supposed to offer a wider variety of things to make up for a lack in a group. There are only a handful of players who run in an optimal meta composition in all things in PvE all the time. For the rest, the meta is a good GUIDELINE, but not a good rule set.
Revenant can keep a permanent uptime on fury for a group, but an Elementalist with the rest of the group using blast finishers (or a D/F ele) can do it better. Revenant with a facet and a trait can keep a very high uptime on a good amount of might. But a Phalanx Strength warrior can do it better. The point is not to be better than what we have, it’s to be comparative while still offering viable alternatives. What if you don’t have a PS warr in the group, oh look…you can have a Herald Revenant fill in. What if you don’t have an Ele in the group? Oh look…Revenant can fill in. It’s about playing what you want and being able to offer unique ways to support the group. Balance should NEVER be about being equal…as that leads to homogenization. It’s about being comparable. Yes, some professions are going to be better at some roles than others. Ideally, if all the professions are OP with one role and UP with another…then you have unique playstyles form and create VARIETY with your professions.
It’s not about how easy it is to toggle it on and off, it’s about effectiveness. The range on the facets are only 600. Unless the group is running really close to each other the swiftness is not going to be beneficial on every 3 second tick. Warrior has 1,200 range swiftness, Engi has own perm swiftness, Ele can blast perm swiftness easy, etc. Plus you have to stay with the Glint utility set to maintain the facet. Which means no quickness from Shiro… which means you’re giving up DPS… If you’re solo and need the fury and might then yes stay Glint, but if you’re with a group Glint is pretty worthless. Glint utility needs a huge buff for both pve and pvp imo.
600 range is plenty. Maybe it’s not amazing for WvW ,but that’s one facet of the game. 600 is fine for PvE and it’s also fine SPvP 600 will cover almost any conquest point. You keep mentioning Ele and PS warrior which both have disadvantages. In the Eles case it’s down to combos which often times requires help from the group so the Ele isn’t doing it alone. In the warriors case they are required to pick up their banners and move them. Then you have the Revenant who literally hits a button and done. Sure it may take a little bit longer to stack to 25 Might but the Upkeep is far easier. This is the same across all buffs it’s far easier for the Revenant to upkeep them then the other classes they literally just hit a button and its done no combos or banner moving required.
Revenant can keep a permanent uptime on fury for a group, but an Elementalist with the rest of the group using blast finishers (or a D/F ele) can do it better. Revenant with a facet and a trait can keep a very high uptime on a good amount of might. But a Phalanx Strength warrior can do it better. The point is not to be better than what we have, it’s to be comparative while still offering viable alternatives. What if you don’t have a PS warr in the group, oh look…you can have a Herald Revenant fill in. What if you don’t have an Ele in the group? Oh look…Revenant can fill in. It’s about playing what you want and being able to offer unique ways to support the group. Balance should NEVER be about being equal…as that leads to homogenization. It’s about being comparable. Yes, some professions are going to be better at some roles than others. Ideally, if all the professions are OP with one role and UP with another…then you have unique playstyles form and create VARIETY with your professions.
^This exactly.
Also not that Vuln is a super hard condi to come by ,but Rev are literally the King of it. 20 Vuln instantly with 1 ability on a 15sec cd + 3 more every auto chain not including the trait passive proc.
So you are saying that using Frigid Blitz which crits anywhere from 5-8k is a DPS loss.
That is exactly what I am saying. There is nothing you can do that is superior to IO + auto-attack.
You can use Frigid Blitz for a very, very modest DPS improvement while in your non-Shiro stance, but while in Shiro stance using it is a substantial DPS loss over continuing to auto-attack.
I mean its not a matter of what you think its just pure math even if all 3 AA hits crit you are looking at 5-6 damage over 4 sec where as Fridge Blitz is 5-8k damage in 1 sec.
Frigid Blitz has a 1.65 coefficient and a 1s cast time. The Auto Attack chain has a 2.1s cast time with (based on the numbers in the update post) a 1.513 coefficient/second. The difference is that Frigid Blitz has an energy cost that will take up 2.3 seconds worth of quickness from Impossible Odds. The quickness is worth roughly a 33% damage per second increase for the AA chain, which makes the 2.3s worth of quickness better than the paltry difference between the AA and the Frigid Blitz to begin with.
That doesn’t even factor in the lifesteal procs that also favor the AA + quickness.
TLDR: For max DPS, only use Impossible Odds + Auto Attack in Shiro Stance. Use Sword 3 and Axe 4 + AA when not in Shiro Stance.
So you are saying that using Frigid Blitz which crits anywhere from 5-8k is a DPS loss.
That is exactly what I am saying. There is nothing you can do that is superior to IO + auto-attack.
You can use Frigid Blitz for a very, very modest DPS improvement while in your non-Shiro stance, but while in Shiro stance using it is a substantial DPS loss over continuing to auto-attack.
I mean its not a matter of what you think its just pure math even if all 3 AA hits crit you are looking at 5-6 damage over 4 sec where as Fridge Blitz is 5-8k damage in 1 sec.
Frigid Blitz has a 1.65 coefficient and a 1s cast time. The Auto Attack chain has a 2.1s cast time with (based on the numbers in the update post) a 1.513 coefficient/second. The difference is that Frigid Blitz has an energy cost that will take up 2.3 seconds worth of quickness from Impossible Odds. The quickness is worth roughly a 33% damage per second increase for the AA chain, which makes the 2.3s worth of quickness better than the paltry difference between the AA and the Frigid Blitz to begin with.
That doesn’t even factor in the lifesteal procs that also favor the AA + quickness.
TLDR: For max DPS, only use Impossible Odds + Auto Attack in Shiro Stance. Use Sword 3 and Axe 4 + AA when not in Shiro Stance.
Yeah for some reason I remembered the AA chain taking longer then 2.1s ,but I just checked it again and this is right. Frigid Blitz however is only 1/2s cast.
(edited by Griffith.7238)
Frigid blitz is a 1s animation. The tooltip may be 1/2s but it doesn’t activate that fast in game.
Frigid blitz is a 1s animation. The tooltip may be 1/2s but it doesn’t activate that fast in game.
Oh did you bust out your stopwatch lol? Brutal Blade also has a travel time before it activates the final part of the AA chain did you factor that in too or just take the tooltip value for one and then make something up for the other?
(edited by Griffith.7238)
I spent the first Revenant preview capturing video of the skills for animation times. The sword stuff I added in during the BWE. It is possible that I missed something, but those times should be accurate.
This is what I’ll be adding with Glint as the second Legend and the following traits from the Herald Line: (image of traits for reference: http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/gw2-revenant-herald-traits1.jpg)
Radiant Revival in Fractals, Hardening Persistance everywhere else.
Shared Empowerment.
Elders Force, this ones very nice, so long as i camp glint, this’ll be a flat 4% bonus damage modifier at least, throw in boons from other group members, and this’ll ramp up quite fast.
Feels like a pretty solid build to me. With fury now granting 40% crit chance for us with the grand master trait, 57% crit chance feels like a good place to stop, considering warrior banner gives a chunk too, and I’ll most likely always be with a warrior.
Feels like a pretty solid build to me.
My current plan is pretty similar, though I do intend to use sword/shield. I expect to try the cleanse on legend swap instead of fury on heal.
Still trying to figure out armor. Which amulet and rings are those?
(edited by Misguided.5139)
After thinking a lot about it I’m planning to use something like this in PvE:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscinbbkonEpqk5qEKrEYsEFNFhdc62tBW0A-TBCBABGt/gFHCgKV/5MlgAcCAyS5Xe6DC4JAEA4A43+23fDc+5nf+5n3v/+7v/+bpAiYMA-e
Sword is just a placeholder for Shield until mr gw2skills.net adds it (so consider 62 extra Def).
Not going to use Jalis in PvE as it is right now (but I believe it’s almost mandatory for WvW). Jade Winds + Reposting Shadows give a lot of survivability, and Impossible Odds is great and has synergy with Herald’s traits (Hardening Persistance gives max Toughness with IO active, 80 more then Jalis). Jalis only has a nice flat healing skill at the moment.
Having over 52% crit rate is not useful because of the 40% we get under Fury (if you add rangers or warriors in group that’s already over 100%). This means we can add 90 more Vitality basically for free.
Banner of Discipline or Spotter are enough to reach 100% Crit Chance (Spotter is “only” 99%) and you can use food for solo play to achieve up to 97%. Banner of Discipline gives a flat 8% Crit Chance, meaning every point of precision after 52% is wasted in many situations (and trivial, since you still get a 92% under Fury with no external help).
Superior Rune of Rage gives basically 100% Fury uptime just with Invoker’s Rage, plus 5% extra damage. It also allows to stack a lot of Fury under Glint’s upkeep, even after swapping legend, since with Rune + Envoy of Sustenance it’s 0.45 seconds of extra Fury every second, meaning 4.5 seconds of Fury if I keep that upkeep up for 10 seconds, adding that to 6.5 seconds Fury on legendswap i have 11 extra seconds every 10 seconds (if I swap on cd), meaning that the 4th effect of the rune is there just to ensure permanent uptime and don’t force me to swap on cd if not needed. With Facet of Nature passive that’s way more, plus it’s active for 13 seconds of Fury. We really have a lot.
Superior Rune of Rage is also useful if we don’t use Glint, basically making still possible a 100% uptime with Facet of Nature and still no extra Fury traits (except the Minor one).
This gives room for Cleansing Channel and Invigorating Flow for extra survivability. No extra sources of Fury are needed from traits.
Sure, Superior Rune of Strength gives 1 Might every 5 seconds, but it’s very easy to stack 25 Might on Herald alone, plus Rune of Rage allows to use Cleansing Channel and Invigorating Flow without giving up Fury uptime when on Shiro/Jalis/Mallyx/Ventari.
And Fury is such a great boon on Revenant because of 20% extra crit rate and 7% extra damage from Invocation line.
Superior Sigil of Frailty is on Hammer to ensure Vulnerability even in solo, getting that extra 7% damage from Devastation even without a Sword. I may consider Superior Sigil of Cleansing if conditions are an issue despite Glint’s healing skill, Reposting Shadows and Cleansing Channel. Honestly with permanent Regen and Facet of Light(2nd) I think it’s enough. Reposting Shadows will clear most of the conditions that stack in duration.
From Herald traits I’ll pick (adding Minors for reference):
(edited by Kidel.2057)
Superior Rune of Rage gives basically 100% Fury uptime just with Invoker’s Rage, plus 7% extra damage.
(snip)
Sure, Superior Rune of Strength gives 1 Might every 5 seconds, but it’s very easy to stack 25 Might on Herald alone
The wiki says Rune of Rage is 5% extra, not 7%. Am I missing something? The extra fury just seems like a waste to me.
How are you stacking 25 might with Herald alone? I’m not seeing it.
It’s 5%, while trait is 7%. Fixed, thanks.
Facet of Strength alone is around 5 stacks of permanent might, 8.5 with Facet of Nature.
Shared Empowerment alone may be easily 4 extra stacks every 3 seconds for almost 6 seconds (with 15% duration from trait) from just 1 upkeep active, meaning almost 8 stacks from only 1 upkeep in a group of at least 5. A lot more with 2 upkeeps, imagine 3. Edit: nevermind, I’m sure it has a icd lol.
Charged Mists is another 2 mights (I believe this has an icd, even if the wiki doesn’t say so).
Unrelenting Assault is 7 might stacks.
Activate Facet of Nature 2nd for 3 more might, or passive effect for more stacks from facet of str and shared emp.
Add a sigil if you want to be sure, no need to spend 80g on a runeset when Rage is a better and cheaper option.
Plus in a group, even if not organized, you get a lot of external might (lol, imagine 2 Heralds in a group), meaning that all the extra from the rune is basically wasted and instead it could be permanent fury, cleansing and passive regen on each skill.
Just did a random tequatl with no party and I had 25 might on me all the time on my guardian (I can only stack around 10 might maybe by myself).
(edited by Kidel.2057)
Shared Empowerment alone may be easily 4 extra stacks every 3 seconds for almost 6 seconds (with 15% duration from trait) from just 1 upkeep active, meaning almost 8 stacks from only 1 upkeep in a group of at least 5. A lot more with 2 upkeeps, imagine 3.
So, you think we will get one stack from shared empowerment for each ally? I hope you are right about that. Also, with the ICD, I wonder about ticks from different abilities occurring within the ICD (and not counting). I guess we will see how it shakes out during next BWE.
I don’t really know about that icd, however superior rune of strength doesn’t make much impact on might stacking on herald (since you already have a lot of it), and makes less impact compared to rune of rage. I’ve tried both, at least on normal revenant, ging to give it a shot again and see if it’s worth the price, but I don’t think so. Might on swap (also works on legendswap) is going to be enough, if skills are not enough already.
However I usually have 25 stacks on might on my guardian while doing dungeons and I have very low selfmight on paper and no rune of strength. AOE might in a good group is insane.
Rune of Str is usually a good choice because it gives a +5% damage bonus when you have a very common boon (every class has might and that’s permanent in groups) and gives a little help stacking it, but Revenant is the first class to have very easy access to Fury and many options for a permanent one (I even excluded 2 of them in my build). No other class can efficiently use the 5% boost from superior rune of rage (maybe guardian has a good uptime, but far form 100%), but Revenant can. I managed to get an easy 100% Fury uptime in last beta, without Glint.
tl;dr with both you get that 5% extra damage, but rune of rage has more synergy and is less wasted (also because it extends your aoe fury by 30%, giving allies a boon that is harder to get).
(edited by Kidel.2057)
I honestly don’t expect glint to be that great for dungeons. I would use Shiro/Mallyx and sword + sword/axe.
Using Impossible Odds when on Shiro till you’re out of energy and then switching to Mallyx and use Embrace the Darkness. I’m not sure if just auto-attacking will still be your best option with all the sword buffs, but in the last BWE it was great.
Glint will be one of if not the best damage Legend we have. 100% uptime on Fury for only -2 Upkeep means 100% crit chance 100% of the time. That is a lot of damage. Not to mention the 2 Facet Actives of Elements (decent AoE damage) and Strength (AoE 20 vuln stacks) both on a 15 sec cd.
Uhm, yeah 100% fury uptime and 20+ vulnerability is something you should already get from your party. Not to mention you can almost get perma fury uptime by yourself by traiting into fury at legend swap and on heal. Also you can get around 18 stacks of vulnerability by just auto attacking and get 25 stacks if you use Impossible Odds, so yeah that facet of strength is really useful there. The facet of elements is a nice burst skill, but you might aswell just keep auto-attacking and opening more rifts with sword auto-3 for aoe damage. So yeah, I’m still not sold on Glint being THE legend we must have in dungeons.
I spent the first Revenant preview capturing video of the skills for animation times. The sword stuff I added in during the BWE. It is possible that I missed something, but those times should be accurate.
Knox, can you look over some damage calculation I did? It’s my first time doing this, not sure if I’m doing it right. My math and build are on this page.
(edited by Recursivision.2367)
Shared Empowerment alone may be easily 4 extra stacks every 3 seconds for almost 6 seconds (with 15% duration from trait) from just 1 upkeep active, meaning almost 8 stacks from only 1 upkeep in a group of at least 5. A lot more with 2 upkeeps, imagine 3.
So, you think we will get one stack from shared empowerment for each ally? I hope you are right about that. Also, with the ICD, I wonder about ticks from different abilities occurring within the ICD (and not counting). I guess we will see how it shakes out during next BWE.
I believe you can’t because when you apply the boon to allies, one player will get it first no matter if the skilll applies to 5 targets (server reads one command at time, this is the reason they had to adapt the code for Blinding Ashes), so the ICD starts.
But if you activate Facet of Strength > wait 1 sec > Facet of Darkness > wait 1 sec > either Facet of Light or Elements, that’s 5 extra might stacks permanetly*. With Facet of Nature as well, it goes to extra 8 stacks for ~25 seconds.
*Auto attack only.
I’ll paste my reply here since it will probably be informative for a lot of people:
Using this build with the glint tree for 2% per boon on you, you’d end up with 2962 Power, 103% crit, 230% crit damage. For damage modifiers, you’d have an average of 7% from the stacking sword trait, 7% vs. Vuln, 7% w/ Fury, 2% per boon (assume fury and might) for 4% and 5% from the STR runes and 5% for the Sigil of Force.
with the new numbers being 30% higher than the old numbers, you’d be looking at this:
- 1050(2962)(5.005)/2600 (Heavy armor golem and tooltip armor value) = 5986
With crits factored in:
- 5986(2.305) = 13800
With damage mods:
- 13800(1.07)(1.07)(1.07)(1.04)(1.05)(1.05) = 19383 damage
Presumably at some point the target would be below 50% so we’ll call that another 10% damage
- 19383(1.1) = 21,321
That is on a 2600 armor target. A thief with 0 toughness would be looking at 26,950 damage.
But don’t worry you can always just hide behind a pillar or something to avoid the damage…. oh wait, you can’t.
Shared Empowerment alone may be easily 4 extra stacks every 3 seconds for almost 6 seconds (with 15% duration from trait) from just 1 upkeep active, meaning almost 8 stacks from only 1 upkeep in a group of at least 5. A lot more with 2 upkeeps, imagine 3.
So, you think we will get one stack from shared empowerment for each ally? I hope you are right about that. Also, with the ICD, I wonder about ticks from different abilities occurring within the ICD (and not counting). I guess we will see how it shakes out during next BWE.
I believe you can’t because when you apply the boon to allies, one player will get it first no matter if the skilll applies to 5 targets (server reads one command at time, this is the reason they had to adapt the code for Blinding Ashes), so the ICD starts.
But if you activate Facet of Strength > wait 1 sec > Facet of Darkness > wait 1 sec > either Facet of Light or Elements, that’s 5 extra might stacks permanetly*. With Facet of Nature as well, it goes to extra 8 stacks for ~25 seconds.
*Auto attack only.
It has just been confirmed in another thread that the “5 targets” is for might application, the trait only counts 1 boon on 1 target every 1 second. Meaning you can stack 2 might with each upkeep, but only if you activate them with 1s delay from each other. With 4 upkeeps delayed by 1s you basically give around 8 aoe might.
Hate the fact that to get the max out of it you basically have to count between upkeep activations.
Yeah, that’s what I had figured. As it stands, especially because of the short duration, but I’m not very excited about the other majors either. The protection is super short. The stun break is a neat idea, but seems really situational.
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