Proposed trait changes
I honestly feel that Invocation as well as Salvation need a few better traits.
Invocation doesn’t quite feel like a class mechanic and Salvation has 4 traits regarding heal output.
Invigorating Flow: Remove this. At least remove it’s mechanic. The heal on this is not worth it in the long. I wan’t to be honest hear: This should rather give you energy on evade, successful evade probably.
Empty Vessel: Make the stunbreak on legendary swap base. The class on a whole would benefit. What to make this instead?
Simple: Legendary swap gives you 25 additional energy.
My reason for this is simple: If you use Jallis elite for example you are basically useless for a few seconds. This would ensure that you can still do a little afterwards.Charged Mists: This probably should get a rework too, as it is this trait is not really helpful. I’m honestly not sure what to do with this one, maybe a damage boost after legend swap or give the buff under other circumstances.
Salvation:
Tranquil Balance: Rework. For example: Interrupting an enemy triggers a small heal around you.
Invoking Harmony: Legend Swap removes a buff from surrounding enemies. This may sound weird in this line but Ventary is supposedly about leveling the playing field and pacification. In a way it would fit.
Retribution
Versed in Stone: This trait is… problematic. While Rite of the Great Dwarf is nice it shouldn’t also be a direct Counter to condition damage in my opinion. Not in the way this does at the Moment at least.
I’d rather see this removing 2 conditions from affected allies on use, so it would take inspiration from Soothing Stone, Jallis’ selfheal.
Maybe remove the auto-use as well but give it: Return energy per affected ally.
To make it more worthwhile.Corruption
Replenishing Despair: This… is really hurt by it’s cooldown. Now removing that would be too strong.
Simply healing more wouldn’t help much either. It could buff selfheal skills, giving it more synergy with other legends as well, triggering two or three torment stacks around you on selfheal use.Venom Enhancement: Probably should either get it’s cooldown cut down significally or simply apply more poison on Trigger.
Maniacal Persistance: Rework this: not having speced in precision in a line about crits shouldn’t be rewarded. Landing a critical hit grants you a stacking buff to condition damage. Small CD, buff lasts 5 seconds.
I’d also change Nefarious Momentum from Devastation but as i have no good idea i only mention it as it has little to no good use.
Anyway… these would be my changes to the lines.
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiers to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.
Senbu Ren[Wind]
Herald of Ventari
Herald of Ventari
(edited by Varezenem.2813)
Once you start messing with improving amount of profession-specific resources, traits that give more of it generally become “baseline” for any serious spec. That would happen if there were traits giving you more energy generation. It’s a big no no and I’m glad they’re not messing with it.
One note from myself: Long time ago, during Beta Weekend Events I was suggesting small rework of Invigorating Flow.
Instead of random small self-heal every 5 seconds, it would spawn one of small healing Orbs that Staff Autoattack creates for every 10 energy spent. It would not only make the trait a bit more interesting, but also give Tranquil Benediction better synergy – each traited orb would give little bit of Regeneration and Swiftness, making Glint less required.
Alternatively, this trait could change places with Shrouding Mists. Then Invigorating Flow could additionaly pull existing Orbs to the most injured allies/ally within 600 radius upon invoking Legend that would be a real improvement to Support builds.
If Shrouding Mists and Equilibrium were in the Invocation Master Tier (Tier 2) already, we could also move Charged Mists there and make the whole tier about managing the below/above 50 energy treshold where each of 3 choices could cater to different playstyle.
- Equilibrium – Burst option: either damage on swap or small self-heal.
- Shrouding Mists – Support/defensive option: Increased healing or reduced damage.
- Charged Mists – Mightstacking option, oriented most likely for sustained damage or condition builds.
This way Invocation could have one more new Grandmaster trait. With Rolling Mists, Invigorating Flow the third option could provide more self-sustain, utility or maybe interaction with boons.
[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
(edited by Rym.1469)
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiers to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.
I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.
Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.
Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.
Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.
Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.
Senbu Ren[Wind]
Herald of Ventari
Herald of Ventari
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.
Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.
Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.
Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.
Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.
You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.
And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.
Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.
Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…
Senbu Ren[Wind]
Herald of Ventari
Herald of Ventari
(edited by Varezenem.2813)
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.
Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.
Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.
You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.
And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.
Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.
Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…
Yes, i can read, the reason i ignore your argument is this: All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself.
Not a single of the mods affects himself, only others.
So honestly, my changes would help him more than simply leaving it like this because he can’t do anything to make heal affect himself more.
Besides, i don’t know about you but i like rewarding active play above giving passive boni that simply apply no matter what the situation.
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.
Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.
Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.
You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.
And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.
Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.
Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…
Yes, i can read, the reason i ignore your argument is this: All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself.
Not a single of the mods affects himself, only others.
So honestly, my changes would help him more than simply leaving it like this because he can’t do anything to make heal affect himself more.Besides, i don’t know about you but i like rewarding active play above giving passive boni that simply apply no matter what the situation.
The point of those modifiers IS making the healing not affect yourself and that is done for a very good reason. Devs even mentioned it during the original Ventari stream.
You might like active play but the amount of outgoing healing has to be kept the same for balance reasons.
And no you cannot read if your argument is " All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself." .
Senbu Ren[Wind]
Herald of Ventari
Herald of Ventari
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.
Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.
Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.
You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.
And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.
Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.
Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…
Yes, i can read, the reason i ignore your argument is this: All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself.
Not a single of the mods affects himself, only others.
So honestly, my changes would help him more than simply leaving it like this because he can’t do anything to make heal affect himself more.Besides, i don’t know about you but i like rewarding active play above giving passive boni that simply apply no matter what the situation.
The point of those modifiers IS making the healing not affect yourself and that is done for a very good reason. Devs even mentioned it during the original Ventari stream.
You might like active play but the amount of outgoing healing has to be kept the same for balance reasons.
And no you cannot read if your argument is " All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself." .
Weren’t you talking bout self-sustain for quite some time?
You know what. Don’t care. You are right, i am wrong.
Tried to bring something to the plate, didn’t work.
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.
Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.
Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.
You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.
And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.
Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.
Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…
Yes, i can read, the reason i ignore your argument is this: All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself.
Not a single of the mods affects himself, only others.
So honestly, my changes would help him more than simply leaving it like this because he can’t do anything to make heal affect himself more.Besides, i don’t know about you but i like rewarding active play above giving passive boni that simply apply no matter what the situation.
The point of those modifiers IS making the healing not affect yourself and that is done for a very good reason. Devs even mentioned it during the original Ventari stream.
You might like active play but the amount of outgoing healing has to be kept the same for balance reasons.
And no you cannot read if your argument is " All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself." .Weren’t you talking bout self-sustain for quite some time?
You know what. Don’t care. You are right, i am wrong.
Tried to bring something to the plate, didn’t work.
The point of the modifiers is to allow Ventari to heal well without providing too much self sustain.
But base healing values are insatisfactory and self-sustain as a consequence.
Senbu Ren[Wind]
Herald of Ventari
Herald of Ventari
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.
Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.
Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.
You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.
And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.
Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.
Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…
Yes, i can read, the reason i ignore your argument is this: All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself.
Not a single of the mods affects himself, only others.
So honestly, my changes would help him more than simply leaving it like this because he can’t do anything to make heal affect himself more.Besides, i don’t know about you but i like rewarding active play above giving passive boni that simply apply no matter what the situation.
The point of those modifiers IS making the healing not affect yourself and that is done for a very good reason. Devs even mentioned it during the original Ventari stream.
You might like active play but the amount of outgoing healing has to be kept the same for balance reasons.
And no you cannot read if your argument is " All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself." .Weren’t you talking bout self-sustain for quite some time?
You know what. Don’t care. You are right, i am wrong.
Tried to bring something to the plate, didn’t work.The point of the modifiers is to allow Ventari to heal well without providing too much self sustain.
But base healing values are insatisfactory and self-sustain as a consequence.
No idea why you keep justifying yourself now, as i said:
You are right, i am wrong.
This is pretty much over.
Why change anything in Ventari’s Traits anyway if it’s basically fine and everything else would make him op.
Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.
Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.
Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.
You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.
And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.
Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.
Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…
Yes, i can read, the reason i ignore your argument is this: All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself.
Not a single of the mods affects himself, only others.
So honestly, my changes would help him more than simply leaving it like this because he can’t do anything to make heal affect himself more.Besides, i don’t know about you but i like rewarding active play above giving passive boni that simply apply no matter what the situation.
The point of those modifiers IS making the healing not affect yourself and that is done for a very good reason. Devs even mentioned it during the original Ventari stream.
You might like active play but the amount of outgoing healing has to be kept the same for balance reasons.
And no you cannot read if your argument is " All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself." .Weren’t you talking bout self-sustain for quite some time?
You know what. Don’t care. You are right, i am wrong.
Tried to bring something to the plate, didn’t work.The point of the modifiers is to allow Ventari to heal well without providing too much self sustain.
But base healing values are insatisfactory and self-sustain as a consequence.No idea why you keep justifying yourself now, as i said:
You are right, i am wrong.
This is pretty much over.
Why change anything in Ventari’s Traits anyway if it’s basically fine and everything else would make him op.
I never said it was fine quite the contrary. What I did say is that the amount of outgoing healing is fine. And I also said that due to the jan 26 nerfs Ventari can be buffed in the sustain department even with condi cleanse.
For example ryms suggestion of increasing the amount of outgoing healing in the minor GM to free up trait slots would work.
Senbu Ren[Wind]
Herald of Ventari
Herald of Ventari
(edited by Varezenem.2813)