Guild Wars 2

Before crying starts, as well as call for nerfs on Condition Revenant, I want to point out couple things, having played Mallyx builds since earliest Betas:

- People don’t run as much AoE cleanses as they used to. Everyone shifted to CC spam which doesn’t work as good against double Stability on dodge. Part of reason why Reapers are popular.

- Good Reaper should counter Viper Revenant. If you don’t run one against teams with stacked Viper Revenants, your fault. Celestial Revenant also counters Viper Revenant.

- People don’t realise how vulnerable Mallyx Revenant is during burst.

Now, where to aim nerfs:

- Riposting Shadows – I’ve talked about this before. This is ridiculously good stunbreak which synergizes a little bit too good with Retribution. Reduce Endurance restoration to 25 or 30 Endurance. Maybe add Vigor to Shiro stance.
Notice how most Herald builds currently run Shiro. Vast majority. That’s the reason.

- Durability rune – These need to go from PvP. AoE Protection and Regeneration for doing nothing, excellent defensive stats. On top of that, you have 20% boon duration which (with Herald minor – +35% boon duration) means extra second or two to most Revenant boons, including Resistance.

Mallyx should obviously be changed in the future and I expect it since BWE3. With above problems solved, you shouldn’t have problems with Viper Revenant anymore. If you do, you may ask me on streams and I will gladly show you how to win with Mallyx Revenant.

Thanks for attention,
Rym

Somebody got stomped in ESL by a condi rev? Source?

How about we nerf Mallyx instead? Banish enh reduced to 1 boon removal, confusion reduced to 2 and lower condi duration on Mallyx utilities in general. Shiro is fine and was already nerfed. Futher nerfs will destroy him.

Burtnik.5218:

How about we nerf Mallyx instead? Banish enh reduced to 1 boon removal, confusion reduced to 2 and lower condi duration on Mallyx utilities in general. Shiro is fine and was already nerfed. Futher nerfs will destroy him.

I actually hope they rethink Mallyx to being an eat condis/spit condis back out legend rather than the current resistance bot design.

i can not understand how the revenant community is suggesting nerfs to themselves that seems stupid and masochistic.
Since HoT I have mostly played several classes in pvp. Almost all classes feel in a good spot right now (maybe with exception of thieves?). Revenants are certainly not the class that make me the most nervous in a pvp match. CC, Conditions and especially boon corruption rip them apart easily.
If any changes do come, I hope they do not destroy mechanics or whole weapons – mechanics of energy management are fun and weapons? we don’t have many of them.

Cayenne.5341:

i can not understand how the revenant community is suggesting nerfs to themselves that seems stupid and masochistic.
Since HoT I have mostly played several classes in pvp. Almost all classes feel in a good spot right now (maybe with exception of thieves?). Revenants are certainly not the class that make me the most nervous in a pvp match. CC, Conditions and especially boon corruption rip them apart easily.
If any changes do come, I hope they do not destroy mechanics or whole weapons – mechanics of energy management are fun and weapons? we don’t have many of them.

Yeah I’m surprised people arent as upset about reapers or scrappers or even tempest eles.

Israel.7056:

Cayenne.5341:

i can not understand how the revenant community is suggesting nerfs to themselves that seems stupid and masochistic.
Since HoT I have mostly played several classes in pvp. Almost all classes feel in a good spot right now (maybe with exception of thieves?). Revenants are certainly not the class that make me the most nervous in a pvp match. CC, Conditions and especially boon corruption rip them apart easily.
If any changes do come, I hope they do not destroy mechanics or whole weapons – mechanics of energy management are fun and weapons? we don’t have many of them.

Yeah I’m surprised people arent as upset about reapers or scrappers or even tempest eles.

Go to HoTM, People are more upset about reapers and tempests and dragonhunters, scrappers? Not so much.

Why can’t things settle down so we can sort L2P issues from things that are truly unbalanced. This sort of posts are not beneficial to anyone, let alone the game.

Removing Durability Runes because of Herald? How is a 1.9 second resistance every 20 seconds supposedly over powered? And the boon duration exists on many runes. I don’t get your argument at all.

I guess he’s just trying to get ahead of all the inevitable revenant qq.

Taldren.7523:

Why can’t things settle down so we can sort L2P issues from things that are truly unbalanced. This sort of posts are not beneficial to anyone, let alone the game.

Removing Durability Runes because of Herald? How is a 1.9 second resistance every 20 seconds supposedly over powered? And the boon duration exists on many runes. I don’t get your argument at all.

this is the most reasonable post I have read here today

tempest D/F is kinda balanced now plz don’t make ppl raging about ele again it would be fine =)

Can we get a way to get Rym and Roy in the same room? He needs to read these

Hooglese.4860:

Can we get a way to get Rym and Roy in the same room? He needs to read these

Not really. He would nerf everything except his precious Mallyx. On top of that his suggestion makes no sense. You cant use riposting shadow in Mallyx.

I also might add that Valk Druid eats Viper Revenants alive, let’s not start with Marauder revenants

Cayenne.5341:

i can not understand how the revenant community is suggesting nerfs to themselves that seems stupid and masochistic.
Since HoT I have mostly played several classes in pvp. Almost all classes feel in a good spot right now (maybe with exception of thieves?). Revenants are certainly not the class that make me the most nervous in a pvp match. CC, Conditions and especially boon corruption rip them apart easily.
If any changes do come, I hope they do not destroy mechanics or whole weapons – mechanics of energy management are fun and weapons? we don’t have many of them.

Reminds me those idiot Mesmer players after the trait revamp patch, they were doing the same thing. The end result was anet nerfed other stuff that didnt need nerfs, and then some. I cant believe I’m witnessing another epic fail.

Zerikin.1593:

Somebody got stomped in ESL by a condi rev? Source?

Dude condi rev in pvp is a ridiculous menace. It’s built for pvp but is meh in pve

This is hilarious. Two weeks ago there were threads all over crying about Mallyx being weak.

Mallyx counters the current Meta. That just means the Meta is going to shift. The sky isn’t falling, Chicken Little.

And I find it fascinating how very many of you all believe you know what’s going on inside the head of every developer, especially because a lot of what is said contradicts and no one will ever cite a source.

Mercurias.1826:

This is hilarious. Two weeks ago there were threads all over crying about Mallyx being weak.

Mallyx counters the current Meta. That just means the Meta is going to shift. The sky isn’t falling, Chicken Little.

And I find it fascinating how very many of you all believe you know what’s going on inside the head of every developer, especially because a lot of what is said contradicts and no one will ever cite a source.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Roy-Feedback-about-out-Feedback/first#post5609485

I think this is what people are citing.

Marauder Scrapper handles the viper build well as does my similarly built personal marauder reaper build, but both of them are also abusing durability runes so theres that..

Wait. Why do we need to nerf Mallyx? I’ve stomped condi Revs over and over on my Dual Sword Shiro/Glint set that has zero condi cleanse :o I’ve also stomped them on Daredevil, Reaper, Ranger, etc.

Only thing OP about it is when UA bugs out and leaves me standing in their aoe fields unable to do anything :S That and offhand shield which is fine on its own but that trait has got to go.

Just because everyone is bandwagoning Mallyx right now, doesn’t mean it’s broken though.

Taldren.7523:

Why can’t things settle down so we can sort L2P issues from things that are truly unbalanced. This sort of posts are not beneficial to anyone, let alone the game.

Removing Durability Runes because of Herald? How is a 1.9 second resistance every 20 seconds supposedly over powered? And the boon duration exists on many runes. I don’t get your argument at all.

Because those little 1.9 seconds don’t happen every 20 seconds, they can be stacked to achieve 27-30 seconds of straight resistance. Take shiro/mally and invest in herald traits without using glint as a legend. Mace/axe-sword/shield and you’ll see what I mean. That is why what the OP is saying is sensible. better to have players suggest the nerf then let anet nerf. We all saw what happened to warrior and thief when the community got their hair about them. Now they barely usable in PvE, let alone PvP.

Rain.9213:

Wait. Why do we need to nerf Mallyx? I’ve stomped condi Revs over and over on my Dual Sword Shiro/Glint set that has zero condi cleanse :o I’ve also stomped them on Daredevil, Reaper, Ranger, etc.

Only thing OP about it is when UA bugs out and leaves me standing in their aoe fields unable to do anything :S That and offhand shield which is fine on its own but that trait has got to go.

Just because everyone is bandwagoning Mallyx right now, doesn’t mean it’s broken though.

People only band wagon what is broken.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Taldren.7523:

Why can’t things settle down so we can sort L2P issues from things that are truly unbalanced. This sort of posts are not beneficial to anyone, let alone the game.

Removing Durability Runes because of Herald? How is a 1.9 second resistance every 20 seconds supposedly over powered? And the boon duration exists on many runes. I don’t get your argument at all.

Because those little 1.9 seconds don’t happen every 20 seconds, they can be stacked to achieve 27-30 seconds of straight resistance. Take shiro/mally and invest in herald traits without using glint as a legend. Mace/axe-sword/shield and you’ll see what I mean. That is why what the OP is saying is sensible. better to have players suggest the nerf then let anet nerf. We all saw what happened to warrior and thief when the community got their hair about them. Now they barely usable in PvE, let alone PvP.

Is that a bug? because how can it proc for 27sec of continuous resistance?

If its a bug then def should be fixed. Tooltip is proc once every 20s.

Spartacus.3192:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Taldren.7523:

Why can’t things settle down so we can sort L2P issues from things that are truly unbalanced. This sort of posts are not beneficial to anyone, let alone the game.

Removing Durability Runes because of Herald? How is a 1.9 second resistance every 20 seconds supposedly over powered? And the boon duration exists on many runes. I don’t get your argument at all.

Because those little 1.9 seconds don’t happen every 20 seconds, they can be stacked to achieve 27-30 seconds of straight resistance. Take shiro/mally and invest in herald traits without using glint as a legend. Mace/axe-sword/shield and you’ll see what I mean. That is why what the OP is saying is sensible. better to have players suggest the nerf then let anet nerf. We all saw what happened to warrior and thief when the community got their hair about them. Now they barely usable in PvE, let alone PvP.

Is that a bug? because how can it proc for 27sec of continuous resistance?

If its a bug then def should be fixed. Tooltip is proc once every 20s.

Demonic Defiance has no ICD and gives you 2s of Resistance each time you use Mallyx skill.
That high uptime on Resistance is only achieveable in teamfights with multiple targets present + with Boon Duration increases, like FoN active, due to scalling nature of Pain Absorption.

Rym.1469:

Spartacus.3192:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Taldren.7523:

Why can’t things settle down so we can sort L2P issues from things that are truly unbalanced. This sort of posts are not beneficial to anyone, let alone the game.

Removing Durability Runes because of Herald? How is a 1.9 second resistance every 20 seconds supposedly over powered? And the boon duration exists on many runes. I don’t get your argument at all.

Because those little 1.9 seconds don’t happen every 20 seconds, they can be stacked to achieve 27-30 seconds of straight resistance. Take shiro/mally and invest in herald traits without using glint as a legend. Mace/axe-sword/shield and you’ll see what I mean. That is why what the OP is saying is sensible. better to have players suggest the nerf then let anet nerf. We all saw what happened to warrior and thief when the community got their hair about them. Now they barely usable in PvE, let alone PvP.

Is that a bug? because how can it proc for 27sec of continuous resistance?

If its a bug then def should be fixed. Tooltip is proc once every 20s.

Demonic Defiance has no ICD and gives you 2s of Resistance each time you use Mallyx skill.
That high uptime on Resistance is only achieveable in teamfights with multiple targets present + with Boon Duration increases, like FoN active, due to scalling nature of Pain Absorption.

So because Elementalist Tempests can spam auras and have a trait with no cooldown that when they apply an aura can generate Protection … all runes that grant as little as 1 second of protection for any reason are too powerful and should be removed.

This thinking is upside down and backwards.

As long as the rune ability itself is properly functioning with its ICD then it is fine. If not, then its a bug that needs to be fixed. Asking for the removal because it provides something that is already abundant is asinine … that argument could be made to the point where all runes that provide a buff should be removed as one class or another can do this with one buff or another.

Durability runes are being used on majority of current PvP fotm specs for a reason. Look at last EU ESL. It’s not just Viper Revenants – it’s also Druid, Scrapper, Chrono. Even some Tempests are using it. That permanent, passive activation Protection on everyone hurts Power builds.

They stack well, because passive Prot+Regen proc is AoE, are bugged so they give +25% boon duration and have amazing defensive stats on top. Each of these effects on their own isn’t overpowered, but all three on one runeset give best value by far. They don’t have to go completly, but they need to be brought back in line with others.

Rym.1469:

Durability runes are being used on majority of current PvP fotm specs for a reason. Look at last EU ESL. It’s not just Viper Revenants – it’s also Druid, Scrapper, Chrono. Even some Tempests are using it. That permanent, passive activation Protection on everyone hurts Power builds.

They stack well, because passive Prot+Regen proc is AoE, are bugged so they give +25% boon duration and have amazing defensive stats on top. Each of these effects on their own isn’t overpowered, but all three on one runeset give best value by far. They don’t have to go completly, but they need to be brought back in line with others.

It’s a bug that it is adding an extra 5% boon bonus … but the rest of it is normal. It isn’t the only AoE boon proc. Rune of the Pack is an AoE that grants Fury, Might, and Swiftness for 10 seconds vs Durabilities 3 seconds. That is over three times the duration and yet I don’t hear anyone complaining about permanent, passive activation +20% Crit rate, swiftness, and might stacks that boosts all builds.

Because these days, after Specialization update and with E-specs, Swiftness, some Might and Fury is absolutely no problem for vast majority of builds. Protection is by far more valuable.

Pack Runes also increase the duration of just one specific boon – Swiftness. Durability increase durations of all boons. If Durability increased duration of, let’s say – Regeneration, then it would be much more balanced. Still picked, but not broken.

There’s a major difference and so is reason why you don’t see Pack runes in 90% new builds, but Durability is almost in every single one apart from Reaper.

You do know that Tempests give perm AoE protection as a class ability combo, right?

Elemental Shielding + Heat Sync + Unstable Conduit

Should Tempests be deleted or changed too?

Taldren.7523:

You do know that Tempests give perm AoE protection as a class ability combo, right?

Elemental Shielding + Heat Sync + Unstable Conduit

Should Tempests be deleted or changed too?

Passives Runes vs Multiple Skills/traits that require you to be in range as well

Also, didn’t hear sync get changed to only copy certain boons(and people run Warhorn now?)?

Ive played many duells with the mallyx build and i must say its rly strong but not stronger as druid at healing or scrapper or reaper its at the right place … it had a rly big nerf after bw 2 .
And GOOD reaper can counter u but its not the ulimative counter to condi rev , same with cele Rev

Malchior.5732:

Taldren.7523:

You do know that Tempests give perm AoE protection as a class ability combo, right?

Elemental Shielding + Heat Sync + Unstable Conduit

Should Tempests be deleted or changed too?

Passives Runes vs Multiple Skills/traits that require you to be in range as well

Also, didn’t hear sync get changed to only copy certain boons(and people run Warhorn now?)?

How is that any different than Facet of Nature + Envoy of Sustenance? And it doesn’t require the stars to align where you have all 5 of your players on top of each other and proc the abilitiy all within range of all 5. I mean, seriously, how far are you going to stretch this?

Taldren.7523:

Malchior.5732:

Taldren.7523:

You do know that Tempests give perm AoE protection as a class ability combo, right?

Elemental Shielding + Heat Sync + Unstable Conduit

Should Tempests be deleted or changed too?

Passives Runes vs Multiple Skills/traits that require you to be in range as well

Also, didn’t hear sync get changed to only copy certain boons(and people run Warhorn now?)?

How is that any different than Facet of Nature + Envoy of Sustenance? And it doesn’t require the stars to align where you have all 5 of your players on top of each other and proc the abilitiy all within range of all 5. I mean, seriously, how far are you going to stretch this?

1. I didn’t stretch anything.
2. FoN + Envoy does not passively proc resistance and Protection while also supplying +20% boon duration and a bunch of stats. I have no idea where you’re going with this really. If anything, FoN + Envoy just makes it much worse.

I agree about the Durability rune, but not Riposting Shadows and Mallyx. I don’t think it’s that strong really. Catch them when they’ve just swapped to Mallyx and they’ll get wrecked if you can work around the stability. It’s pretty hard to work around the stability alone and catch someone after a swap to Mallyx, but it’s supposed to be very capable 1v1. On top of that, they really don’t have much healing. They have two healing skills, and two skills that provide some healing on their shield. All of the skills have situations in which they are useful. Shield 5 is good when you’re fighting bursty easily blockable classes. Empowering Misery is good when you’re being condi pressured. None of them are hugely reliable heals though. You can be locked out of all of them when you need them through weapons/legend swaps. All of them have long CDs. All of them have energy costs, even though the heal skill cost is low (5). This makes them pretty kitten weak if you’re not a condi class. They can easily be put on the defensive and that will not bode well for them.

I think the real issue is Enhanced Bulwark which allows high uptime of Stability, covering Mallyx’s biggest weakness quite well. Combine this with Durability Runes and all of our active defenses and heals and you get quite an annoying spec. I think a change for Enhanced Bulwark(makes no sense without retribution or jalis anyway) to make it work(as in it no longer has anything to do with stab) with, say, Prot, and potentially change Shield 4 to do something else(why have two skills with such similar functions?) and I think a lot of complaints would stop while also making for a much healthier class.

I would also love Pain Absorption changes since the condi transfer it does no longer makes sense and the resistance is not needed since Mallyx no longer applies conditions to the player(before, it was necessary because you’d end up killing yourself otherwise, but now that Mallyx is really safe, it makes no sense, esp the Heal; make them cleanses or something).

The vast majority of people run Shiro because it’s the only line with a reliable stun break. Every other line, even the supposed tanky line, just isn’t good for stun break or stability which forces us into Shiro.

If other lines offered more reliable stun breaks, such as Inspiring Reinforcements acting like a stunbreak/stability you might see more people using Jalis over Shiro. However until they give Revenant more access to stun breaks in other lines, it really forces us into Shiro for that aspect alone.

Malchior.5732:

Taldren.7523:

Malchior.5732:

Taldren.7523:

You do know that Tempests give perm AoE protection as a class ability combo, right?

Elemental Shielding + Heat Sync + Unstable Conduit

Should Tempests be deleted or changed too?

Passives Runes vs Multiple Skills/traits that require you to be in range as well

Also, didn’t hear sync get changed to only copy certain boons(and people run Warhorn now?)?

How is that any different than Facet of Nature + Envoy of Sustenance? And it doesn’t require the stars to align where you have all 5 of your players on top of each other and proc the abilitiy all within range of all 5. I mean, seriously, how far are you going to stretch this?

1. I didn’t stretch anything.
2. FoN + Envoy does not passively proc resistance and Protection while also supplying +20% boon duration and a bunch of stats. I have no idea where you’re going with this really. If anything, FoN + Envoy just makes it much worse.

Tempest procs AoE protection on just about everything the Tempest does.

This stupid little run does it for 1.9 seconds of Resistance with Facet and Envoy and 5.7 seconds with protection 25% of the time when hit with a 20s cooldown.

You are trying to say that if everyone stands in a little circle and all procs it together that you could have it up passively full time which is just ridiculous. If that isn’t a stretch (of reality) I don’t know what is.

AoE buff procs exist in the game already and classes like Tempest can actually do them full time buffs on demand. Trying to construed this rune as some sort of outlier is mind boggling silly.

Taldren.7523:

Malchior.5732:

Taldren.7523:

Malchior.5732:

Taldren.7523:

You do know that Tempests give perm AoE protection as a class ability combo, right?

Elemental Shielding + Heat Sync + Unstable Conduit

Should Tempests be deleted or changed too?

Passives Runes vs Multiple Skills/traits that require you to be in range as well

Also, didn’t hear sync get changed to only copy certain boons(and people run Warhorn now?)?

How is that any different than Facet of Nature + Envoy of Sustenance? And it doesn’t require the stars to align where you have all 5 of your players on top of each other and proc the abilitiy all within range of all 5. I mean, seriously, how far are you going to stretch this?

1. I didn’t stretch anything.
2. FoN + Envoy does not passively proc resistance and Protection while also supplying +20% boon duration and a bunch of stats. I have no idea where you’re going with this really. If anything, FoN + Envoy just makes it much worse.

Tempest procs AoE protection on just about everything the Tempest does.

This stupid little run does it for 1.9 seconds of Resistance with Facet and Envoy and 5.7 seconds with protection 25% of the time when hit with a 20s cooldown.

You are trying to say that if everyone stands in a little circle and all procs it together that you could have it up passively full time which is just ridiculous. If that isn’t a stretch (of reality) I don’t know what is.

AoE buff procs exist in the game already and classes like Tempest can actually do them full time buffs on demand. Trying to construed this rune as some sort of outlier is mind boggling silly.

You misread SO hard that it’s physically painful.

What I was saying was that there’s a HUGE difference between a passive rune proccing and a specific class using very specific skills with specific traits.

And I am saying it doesn’t matter at all. It doesn’t matter how you get the buffs if you always have those buffs anyway. Be it from a class full time on demand or from a proc chance of a rune that gives it for very short durations with long cooldowns.

Rev is fine, just nerf d/d ele……..

While a do think Mallyx rev is the strongest build in the game right now (it does have counters though), I think we’re actually in a fairly decent state for balance right now. I’d focus on buffing thieves (ya their mobility is amazing, but they’re almost useless in fights) and warriors (easily the worst PvP class in the game) before looking at nerfing others.

Taldren.7523:

And I am saying it doesn’t matter at all. It doesn’t matter how you get the buffs if you always have those buffs anyway. Be it from a class full time on demand or from a proc chance of a rune that gives it for very short durations with long cooldowns.

But you wont have it all the time. You assume you’ll always have a Tempest next to you to supply that Protection constantly, as opposed to just applying it passively whenever you get into a fight. Yea, it wont be permanent, but with these runes doing so many things at the same time, it doesn’t matter.

You can’t throw a stone in sPvP and not hit a Tempest. I usually have 1 to 2 of them on my team. This is what allows me to forsake Herald in the first place. It just isn’t that useful with all the boons being thrown around.

Revenant

• Demonic Defiance: This trait now has a 5 second internal cooldown.
• Radiant Revival: This trait’s functionality has been altered to provide Infused Light for the revenant, instead of the downed target. This trait now grants the revenant 10% bonus revival speed.
• Coalescence of Ruin: This ability will no longer hit over the maximum number of targets (5). The cascade will additionally cease its progression if it hits the maximum number of targets.

These are balance updates for tomorrow.

Don’t panic, these are good. Demonic Defiance change kills Mallyx builds in PvP and it will be probably unviable there untill next balance patch, but I understand that quick hotfixes were needed and there was no time for redesigns etc.

Mallyx is still in line for major redesign which will hopefully happen in proper Balance Patch after Season 1 of PvP ends, so I’m not too salty about tomorrow’s changes.

What it means? In short:

1. Viper build is most possibly gone for now. With 5s ICD on Demonic Defiance, Reaper will be able to take it out no problem whatsoever.

2. Power Revenant is back, no longer being hard-countered by Mallyx Revenant.

3. Reaper is back.

4. WvW will hopefully be more healthy.

The only thing I’m not quite sure about is if nerf to Bunker Mesmers is enough, but we will see.

Link to full version:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Upcoming-Balance-Changes-Week-of-December-14-2015/first#post5853135

Good changes for sure and I don’t know if this will kill Viper Revenants, but it’s definitely going to tone them down and is a much needed change.

Speaking of which, why are you so sure that we’re getting a Mallyx redesign? I’d love that, but unfortunately I think we’re stuck with the current iteration.

Rym.1469:

2. Power Revenant is back, no longer being hard-countered by Mallyx Revenant.

mallyx rev will still hardcounter power rev if the enemy does not run a necro.

it is quite plausible that there will be less viper revenants around, that won’t mean that there will be more necros though. necros have bad matchups against more or less everything right now and just don’t have the survivability a viper/wanderer revenant has.

the bad thing about this is that without condi revs or condi necros there will be even less to keep mesmers and other boon heavy bunkers/bruisers in check. → meta even worse.

It won’t kill Viper Revenants if there are no Necromancers, but it will if Necromancers appear.

As for Mallyx redesign, I may only hope and I hope for good things. It was clearly rushed and 1/3 of our traits are pre-specialization patch.

As for bunkers, I share the concern that it might backfire. Reaper isn’t as efficient as Mallyx Rev in dealing with Bunker Mesmer and Tempest, as well as Scrapper I’d say even. Bunker Mesmer didn’t get many nerfs. We will see.