Question for experienced Rev's

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Posted by: Law.1704

Law.1704

Rev feels sort of clunky and I couldn’t figure out why and I don’t just mean renegade which has its own issues.

Energy cost on everything as well as huge cooldowns feels weird, would it not make more sense to not have energy cost on weapon skills then the huge energy cost of the utilities would be fine since you are spending your resource how you want?

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Posted by: All Matters Fecal.9560

All Matters Fecal.9560

That’s always been my question.

Even if Rev got a damage nerf to compensate for being able to use more skills I’d be happy. Nothing worse than wanting to play your character and having to wait for both CD and find that you have no energy anyway….then to top it off you have to arbitrarily switch to another legend that has no relevance to the situation.

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Posted by: Dinsy.2491

Dinsy.2491

With both energy and cool down requirements skills can be more powerful as they require bigger investments to use. Problem is a lot of the skills are far too expensive for what they actually do, to the point that you use one or two skills and then have to legend swap.

For me the problem is not they have energy and cooldown costs it’s that there’s no energy management outside of legend swap, which forces you to change legend after a couple of utilities to be able to use your weapon skills, not because that legend is useful in the current situation.

A simple fix would be to add energy gain on AA, say 5-10% per attack, or whatever numbers work.

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Posted by: Kidel.2057

Kidel.2057

Rev feels sort of clunky and I couldn’t figure out why and I don’t just mean renegade which has its own issues.

Energy cost on everything as well as huge cooldowns feels weird, would it not make more sense to not have energy cost on weapon skills then the huge energy cost of the utilities would be fine since you are spending your resource how you want?

Don’t get the wrong idea. Revenant is NOT Renegade.

Revenant up until now has always been a pretty decent class, not perfect, but enjoyable and usable in basically every game format, with a particular idea behind.

Normal Revanant (and Herald) has just energy management to care about, and almost no cooldowns. This has been particularly used with Herald and Glint, allowing for a set of utility skills all with upkeep, meaning that are pulsing skills that you activate and drain your energy over time.

Herald is basically what Revenants is supposed to be to an extreme. It’s all energy based.

Renegade, on the other hand, is the complete opposite. Huge energy costs on useless skills with ALSO cooldowns for some reason. So even if you have good energy management you can’t use a skill if it’s on cooldown.

It seems like the Renegade class was made by somebody who knows nothing about Revenant and Herald.

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Posted by: Caeledh.5437

Caeledh.5437

Energy cost on everything as well as huge cooldowns feels weird, would it not make more sense to not have energy cost on weapon skills then the huge energy cost of the utilities would be fine since you are spending your resource how you want?

Personally, yes, I’d strongly prefer this. And there’s probably many players who don’t play GW2 because they don’t like CD driven combat design who also would.

But the best time to do that would have been with HoT’s launch and the newly introduced revenants. Because at this point ArenaNet would struggle to get the message out to such players that GW2 suddenly has something for them.

I suspect instead that they’re heading in the opposite direction. They’ll give up on trying to cater to such players and just make every profession cooldown driven, eg. Renegade.

Even thieves get a weapon ability with a charge (which is essentially a softer cooldown) on it with PoF. Might just be the first of many.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kneel

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Posted by: Ghin.1653

Ghin.1653

Personally I really like condi rev. However its kind of hamstrung in it’s purpose, as originally we were supposed to take condi from allies, or receive them and use it nefariously, however…..

Embrace the Darkness is too expensive with no benefit (in pip degen anyway), it costs 5 initial OK -7/s pip OK and then 1 torment every second……. Where the hell is the rest of my elite skill? If it mirrored all my conditions onto nearby enemies with each pulse THEN we have some kind of decent elite (again linking back to original concept).

The heal skill Empowering Misery is only effective if you have conditions, meaning that unless you can self depreciate yourself with condi (one trait does this, and only torment so still no good) or fight a fellow condi opponent, your underpowered in healing. You then swap to a second skill set (which before renegade has nothing to do with your spec as condi) to use skills (in my case shiro).

Then theres Jade winds, 50 cost (ouch) 5 cd (the hell?) and 3 second stun in aoe target of 5. I’d take a longer cooldown over that brutal cost that requires your entire stamina bar anyday (cuz you sure as hell aint gonna be full when you swap from demon stance).

I agree that a lot of the Revenant, including Renegade, needs to be re-evaluated. Too much up front cost, not enough straight forward usage. A lot of his skills and utilities don’t make sense. I would also like to put out a glaring contradiction that really bothers me in Renegade….. ICErazor’s Ire…. it deals cripple……

(edited by Ghin.1653)

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Posted by: Thermaltron.6829

Thermaltron.6829

A simple fix would be to add energy gain on AA, say 5-10% per attack, or whatever numbers work.

Wouldn’t that mess with upkeep skills when you are running a deficit?

What I wondered about was something like boosting your natural energy gain while doing an AA. As an example, rather than gain 5 energy per tick, you’d get 8 or whatever seems right.

So, your natural energy gain is boosted by just over 50% while doing AA, but upkeep skills would still drain your energy pool.

If not on AA, what about when you hit 0 energy, you get a temp buff which generates say, 15 energy a tick, for say, 4 seconds. You can either stay on your current legend, or if you flip at the right time, your next legend will get the benefit of the boost and be near full power in no time.

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Posted by: Hooglese.4860

Hooglese.4860

Most of the CDs arent as big as other classes but you make good questions that we all don’t understand. Maintaining it well does put you on a higher playing ground than most other professions.

PvP
revenant – Hoogles Von Boogles
Mesmer – hoogelz

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Posted by: Caeledh.5437

Caeledh.5437

However its kind of hamstrung in it’s purpose, as originally we were supposed to take condi from allies, or receive them and use it nefariously,

That was an interesting idea. It’s a shame they couldn’t pull it off.

If I recall correctly ANet did try this but it failed because in WvW Mallyx revenants were being cleansed against their will and losing the extra power they got from being conditioned?

Could be an interesting idea to revisit. Maybe a trait to repel cleanse attempts?

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Posted by: narcx.3570

narcx.3570

Embrace the Darkness is too expensive with no benefit (in pip degen anyway), it costs 5 initial OK -7/s pip OK and then 1 torment every second……. Where the hell is the rest of my elite skill? If it mirrored all my conditions onto nearby enemies with each pulse THEN we have some kind of decent elite (again linking back to original concept).

The 10% stat increase alone gives Embrace one of the highest damage outputs of all the elites in the game… In PvE at least.

I mean, it’s no FGS, but still.

Although, they really need to get rid of its cast time so it has the same feel as all of the other upkeep skills.

(edited by narcx.3570)

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Posted by: Swiftly.2385

Swiftly.2385

I am just returning to the game. Haven’t played since right before HOT. Was thinking of leveling a Rev. but this discussion makes me think it might not be worth it as I am looking for a good all around class with good mobility. (Something that can function in all aspects of the game depending on the spec) Was trying to choose between Rev, Mesmer, Ele, or Guardian. I know, I know much different play styles.

Is it even worth it at this point to level up a Rev in anticipation of maining it in POF? Or would the other classes I listed be better choices?

This is not a troll, I am just honestly trying to decide and having a tough time.

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Posted by: Fractured.3928

Fractured.3928

I am just returning to the game. Haven’t played since right before HOT. Was thinking of leveling a Rev. but this discussion makes me think it might not be worth it as I am looking for a good all around class with good mobility. (Something that can function in all aspects of the game depending on the spec) Was trying to choose between Rev, Mesmer, Ele, or Guardian. I know, I know much different play styles.

Is it even worth it at this point to level up a Rev in anticipation of maining it in POF? Or would the other classes I listed be better choices?

This is not a troll, I am just honestly trying to decide and having a tough time.

If you want Mobility, nothing is better than Sword/Axe Rev. Literally teleporting around the battlefield is pretty fun.

However, from what I understand, Rev is not on par with other classes at the moment. Nor does that seem to be changing with the expansion.

Which also happens to be the top reason I haven’t bought the expansion yet.

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Posted by: LucianTheAngelic.7054

LucianTheAngelic.7054

I am just returning to the game. Haven’t played since right before HOT. Was thinking of leveling a Rev. but this discussion makes me think it might not be worth it as I am looking for a good all around class with good mobility. (Something that can function in all aspects of the game depending on the spec) Was trying to choose between Rev, Mesmer, Ele, or Guardian. I know, I know much different play styles.

Is it even worth it at this point to level up a Rev in anticipation of maining it in POF? Or would the other classes I listed be better choices?

This is not a troll, I am just honestly trying to decide and having a tough time.

If you want Mobility, nothing is better than Sword/Axe Rev. Literally teleporting around the battlefield is pretty fun.

However, from what I understand, Rev is not on par with other classes at the moment. Nor does that seem to be changing with the expansion.

Which also happens to be the top reason I haven’t bought the expansion yet.

That’s an outdated opinion. Rev can do good damage in pve and is good/great in both pvp and wvw. A few classes can do more damage than rev in pve, however it’s only by a few thousand dps, not some significant difference. Also renegade is a literal substantial dps increase for both power and condi revenant in pve. The class isn’t perfect but its certainly not awful and it’s more than viable, just not used for most speedclears.

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Posted by: narcx.3570

narcx.3570

I am just returning to the game. Haven’t played since right before HOT. Was thinking of leveling a Rev. but this discussion makes me think it might not be worth it as I am looking for a good all around class with good mobility. (Something that can function in all aspects of the game depending on the spec) Was trying to choose between Rev, Mesmer, Ele, or Guardian. I know, I know much different play styles.

Is it even worth it at this point to level up a Rev in anticipation of maining it in POF? Or would the other classes I listed be better choices?

This is not a troll, I am just honestly trying to decide and having a tough time.

Here’s the thing… Looking for one character that can excel in all game aspects is tough in GW2. (I suppose Ele, Thief, and War do in the current PvP/WvW/PvE metascape, mesmer and guardian do to a degree too as long as your willing to fulfill very specialized roles.)

But having a “main” isn’t really what excelling in GW2 is all about. They made it SOOOO easy to multiclass by making leveling to 80 basically require no time or effort and by having ascended gear bind to account instead of character. It’s not like other MMORPG’s where you’re basically married to your one character and better pray they don’t get nerfed or else it’ll be months before you can be competitive in end-game again.

In fact, even if you do have your one character that excels in all game types, you STILL might have trouble finding groups… Some raid lfg’s only want multiclass, and you leave yourself no option to swap your class in soloque sPvP when you see that you have a terrible team composition.

I guess that’s a little off topic, so to answer your question, “No, don’t main Rev in PoF.”

I mean, all we can do is speculate, but Rev’s going to have a TERRIBLE time in sPvP now that boon corrupt/strip has been expanded and more viable condi specs have been added. At best Rev will be in-and-out of the raid meta from patch to patch—probably settling on niche roles in certain fights. And, for WvW, Rev will still be fine… There’s a lot more boon strip/corrupt out there now, but group resistance will always be wanted for large team fights and Renegade’s spirits might actually be pretty useful as Well-specs have always done pretty good in WvW.

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Posted by: Fractured.3928

Fractured.3928

I am just returning to the game. Haven’t played since right before HOT. Was thinking of leveling a Rev. but this discussion makes me think it might not be worth it as I am looking for a good all around class with good mobility. (Something that can function in all aspects of the game depending on the spec) Was trying to choose between Rev, Mesmer, Ele, or Guardian. I know, I know much different play styles.

Is it even worth it at this point to level up a Rev in anticipation of maining it in POF? Or would the other classes I listed be better choices?

This is not a troll, I am just honestly trying to decide and having a tough time.

If you want Mobility, nothing is better than Sword/Axe Rev. Literally teleporting around the battlefield is pretty fun.

However, from what I understand, Rev is not on par with other classes at the moment. Nor does that seem to be changing with the expansion.

Which also happens to be the top reason I haven’t bought the expansion yet.

That’s an outdated opinion. Rev can do good damage in pve and is good/great in both pvp and wvw. A few classes can do more damage than rev in pve, however it’s only by a few thousand dps, not some significant difference. Also renegade is a literal substantial dps increase for both power and condi revenant in pve. The class isn’t perfect but its certainly not awful and it’s more than viable, just not used for most speedclears.

You say that, but every single pro raiding guild has Rev listed as being good at 1-2 bosses. Thats it. Every other class other than Necro has 5+. Not only that, but Rev has only Condi build for DPS, and 1 heal build. Nothing else.

So as far as I’m concerned, that isn’t out-dated.

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Posted by: LucianTheAngelic.7054

LucianTheAngelic.7054

I am just returning to the game. Haven’t played since right before HOT. Was thinking of leveling a Rev. but this discussion makes me think it might not be worth it as I am looking for a good all around class with good mobility. (Something that can function in all aspects of the game depending on the spec) Was trying to choose between Rev, Mesmer, Ele, or Guardian. I know, I know much different play styles.

Is it even worth it at this point to level up a Rev in anticipation of maining it in POF? Or would the other classes I listed be better choices?

This is not a troll, I am just honestly trying to decide and having a tough time.

If you want Mobility, nothing is better than Sword/Axe Rev. Literally teleporting around the battlefield is pretty fun.

However, from what I understand, Rev is not on par with other classes at the moment. Nor does that seem to be changing with the expansion.

Which also happens to be the top reason I haven’t bought the expansion yet.

That’s an outdated opinion. Rev can do good damage in pve and is good/great in both pvp and wvw. A few classes can do more damage than rev in pve, however it’s only by a few thousand dps, not some significant difference. Also renegade is a literal substantial dps increase for both power and condi revenant in pve. The class isn’t perfect but its certainly not awful and it’s more than viable, just not used for most speedclears.

You say that, but every single pro raiding guild has Rev listed as being good at 1-2 bosses. Thats it. Every other class other than Necro has 5+. Not only that, but Rev has only Condi build for DPS, and 1 heal build. Nothing else.

So as far as I’m concerned, that isn’t out-dated.

That’s because these groups are INTERESTED IN SPEED CLEARS AND SPEED CLEARS ALONE WITH PLAYERS THAT CAN CONSISTENTLY HIT BENCHMARKS (i.e. the top 1%, which most players are not).

I use Rev (condi, power, and/or healing depending on the fight and how I feel that day) and I get consistently good dps or fill my role just fine. Usually I’m 2nd best for dps or consistently pulling as much dps as the other dps roles. We consistently clear bosses in 1 shot most of the time.

So don’t quote QT at me thinking they’re the supreme gods of all that is raiding. Hell, they don’t even have Non Utility Power Chronomancer listed which gets pretty much the same DPS as Power Mesmer and it has more cleave and a little extra utility. They don’t have it listed because they don’t care about classes that aren’t helping them get a speed clear kill. Most people don’t give a kitten about speedclears. I don’t. Most just want to clear the content. My group’s times are fine as is and we run a ton of off meta stuff. We never hit enrage or come close.

Revenant in it’s current form is fine and about to get better with renegade for high end pve content so yes, it IS an outdated opinion. Find a group that doesn’t adhere to strict meta or build your own groups. Rev is MORE than viable. This is a community elitism problem, NOT a revenant problem.

(edited by LucianTheAngelic.7054)

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Posted by: narcx.3570

narcx.3570

That’s an outdated opinion. Rev can do good damage in pve and is good/great in both pvp and wvw. A few classes can do more damage than rev in pve, however it’s only by a few thousand dps, not some significant difference. Also renegade is a literal substantial dps increase for both power and condi revenant in pve. The class isn’t perfect but its certainly not awful and it’s more than viable, just not used for most speedclears.

The thing is—even before Rev got all the recent condi love—Power Jalis/Glint was ALSO only a few thousand behind the other power classes on small hitbox, and nobody wanted them then just as nobody wants them now.

So things haven’t really changed THAT much for revs… They’re still a few K behind the other classes… Which is fine. And while I agree that it’s certainly viable to take a Rev, I gotta say that it should not be your only class. Playing Rev is a luxury to do with friends/guildies or once people in the raid scene know who you are and trust you to not screw up the fight.

But telling some guy that making a Rev is a “viable” choice for raiding is just leading him down a path of extreme frustration since OBVIOUSLY he’s going to be trying to pug most of his kills. If he had a guild to raid with he wouldn’t even have to ask a question like that on the forums… :P Why steer someone down the dark, infuriating path of not finding groups and having to constantly hear, “Ummm, got any other classes?” Just to prove a point and be anti-meta? Poor form.

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Posted by: LucianTheAngelic.7054

LucianTheAngelic.7054

That’s an outdated opinion. Rev can do good damage in pve and is good/great in both pvp and wvw. A few classes can do more damage than rev in pve, however it’s only by a few thousand dps, not some significant difference. Also renegade is a literal substantial dps increase for both power and condi revenant in pve. The class isn’t perfect but its certainly not awful and it’s more than viable, just not used for most speedclears.

The thing is—even before Rev got all the recent condi love—Power Jalis/Glint was ALSO only a few thousand behind the other power classes on small hitbox, and nobody wanted them then just as nobody wants them now.

So things haven’t really changed THAT much for revs… They’re still a few K behind the other classes… Which is fine. And while I agree that it’s certainly viable to take a Rev, I gotta say that it should not be your only class. Playing Rev is a luxury to do with friends/guildies or once people in the raid scene know who you are and trust you to not screw up the fight.

But telling some guy that making a Rev is a “viable” choice for raiding is just leading him down a path of extreme frustration since OBVIOUSLY he’s going to be trying to pug most of his kills. If he had a guild to raid with he wouldn’t even have to ask a question like that on the forums… :P Why steer someone down the dark, infuriating path of not finding groups and having to constantly hear, “Ummm, got any other classes?” Just to prove a point and be anti-meta? Poor form.

I said “screw the meta” after revenant fell out of meta and I made it work. If I did, others can. If not, it’s on them. And honestly anyone who doesn’t multiclass at least a bit is screwing themselves, but to say you can’t main a revenant is ludicrous. There are options, people just need to not be lazy and take them. Tired of all the revenant mains QQing when they could step up and make it work for them. Some of us have.