Guild Wars 2

Rejoice!!

Our complaining got results!

But what about all those poor people who claimed that weapon swap is not needed for the Revenant, have proposed overly-complicated weapon-swap alternatives, or have threatened to cancel their pre-orders if Revenant gets it?

They can simulate their underpowered suggestion pressing F1+weaponswap at the same time.

Genesis.8572:

But what about all those poor people who claimed that weapon swap is not needed for the Revenant, have proposed overly-complicated weapon-swap alternatives, or have threatened to cancel their pre-orders if Revenant gets it?

its the easiest alternative to solve the problem – the most ideas of the comminutiy would also have worked though (but woud all take way more effort to implement)

ROY …. THANK YOU =)
and WTF … the Sword 3 is just insane as hell …

Loex.5104:

Genesis.8572:

But what about all those poor people who claimed that weapon swap is not needed for the Revenant, have proposed overly-complicated weapon-swap alternatives, or have threatened to cancel their pre-orders if Revenant gets it?

its the easiest alternative to solve the problem – the most ideas of the comminutiy would also have worked though (but woud all take way more effort to implement)

ROY …. THANK YOU =)
and WTF … the Sword 3 is just insane as hell …

most of them were “swap weapon when you swap legend”, that is actually WORSE then having no weaponswap at all.

And all of them were way worse then actual weaponswap, not only harder to make.

Loex.5104:

its the easiest alternative to solve the problem – the most ideas of the comminutiy would also have worked though (but woud all take way more effort to implement)

Oh, I know. I’m thrilled by this development. Weapon-swapping down, now onward as we debate the traits and utility inflexibility!

YAY THEY KILLED EVERY OTHER CLASS

Ok Ok in all seriousness, I dunno how I feel about this… On one hand yeah I guess it’s cool that rev gets weapon swap, but I am concerned that they have given people no reason to play the other classes now…

Whilst this is good news, where was the info’s source? Was it the POI stream?

Randulf.7614:

Whilst this is good news, where was the info’s source? Was it the POI stream?

yep.

Randulf.7614:

Whilst this is good news, where was the info’s source? Was it the POI stream?

Yes. This and other changes should be posted on forums soon.

thewaterguy.4796:

YAY THEY KILLED EVERY OTHER CLASS

Ok Ok in all seriousness, I dunno how I feel about this… On one hand yeah I guess it’s cool that rev gets weapon swap, but I am concerned that they have given people no reason to play the other classes now…

How does Revenant weapon swapping kill the other classes? The reason to play a Revenant over other classes will boil down more to their playstyles and group utility in WvW/sPvP/Dungeons/Fractals rather than simply their ability to weapon and utility swap.

Woohooooooooooooooooooo

So much win. Was definitely needed. Now I’ll be able to swap out hammer & mace/axe or hammer and dual swords

Another great news it seems: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Energy-cost-removed-from-weaponskill/first#post5291286

Astralporing.1957:

Randulf.7614:

Whilst this is good news, where was the info’s source? Was it the POI stream?

Yes. This and other changes should be posted on forums soon.

Cool. I look forward to reading them in due course

thewaterguy.4796:

YAY THEY KILLED EVERY OTHER CLASS

Ok Ok in all seriousness, I dunno how I feel about this… On one hand yeah I guess it’s cool that rev gets weapon swap, but I am concerned that they have given people no reason to play the other classes now…

Revenants still have terrible ranged damage options, so I wouldn’t be too worried about it. The hammer AA is the only consistent ranged attack as the other ranged attacks have long cast times.

thewaterguy.4796:

YAY THEY KILLED EVERY OTHER CLASS

Ok Ok in all seriousness, I dunno how I feel about this… On one hand yeah I guess it’s cool that rev gets weapon swap, but I am concerned that they have given people no reason to play the other classes now…

I’ll still play my other 3 main classes, along with revenant, simply because they’re all different in their playstyle. I think Ele still trumps all other classes when it comes to mass damage – no other class can really top their meteor skill, for example. Sure rev hammer #1 skill can hit up to 5 players, but it has nothing on meteor.

Other professions will use have their uses, it’s all about how much you enjoy that particular class. I for one, don’t like thief, but that’s because it’s very hands on, close combat et cetera. I know many who LOVE thief and it’s their main. I main Ele and LOVE it, some hate it because it’s so squishy.

Different strokes for different folks.

MiniEquine.6014:

thewaterguy.4796:

YAY THEY KILLED EVERY OTHER CLASS

Ok Ok in all seriousness, I dunno how I feel about this… On one hand yeah I guess it’s cool that rev gets weapon swap, but I am concerned that they have given people no reason to play the other classes now…

Revenants still have terrible ranged damage options, so I wouldn’t be too worried about it. The hammer AA is the only consistent ranged attack as the other ranged attacks have long cast times.

I guess you do have a point there… I only hope that arena-net are keeping the old professions in the back of their minds when it comes to revenant and even the elite specs, didn’t they openly say that they wanted their to be a reason to stay as the base classes and NOT go revenant or elite spec?

Wonderful! This will really open up a lot of options build wise, and make it much easier to optimize each stance.

I have much <3 for the devs for this.

Well, old professions are all getting new mechanic and more skills to customize with elite. Revenant is only getting another legend probably. Still no skill rearrange.

Thank god, revs really did need that weapon swap. TY so much for listening Roy.

Amazing.
I was fine without the weapon swap, but now it is WAY better.

kitten , I have to wait another couple hours before I can watch the POI

Good job guys. You complained and begged for an unimaginative solution, and you got it. Now the class is doomed to be boring as all hell. There were plenty of way better ideas than duct-taping default weapon swap to the class.

MiniEquine.6014:

thewaterguy.4796:

YAY THEY KILLED EVERY OTHER CLASS

Ok Ok in all seriousness, I dunno how I feel about this… On one hand yeah I guess it’s cool that rev gets weapon swap, but I am concerned that they have given people no reason to play the other classes now…

Revenants still have terrible ranged damage options, so I wouldn’t be too worried about it. The hammer AA is the only consistent ranged attack as the other ranged attacks have long cast times.

On the livestream Roy said he buffed the hammer damage significantly, so we’ll have to see when he makes his forum post regarding changes.

Xenon.4537:

Good job guys. You complained and begged for an unimaginative solution, and you got it. Now the class is doomed to be boring as all hell. There were plenty of way better ideas than duct-taping default weapon swap to the class.

To be fair, Anet had every ability to make it that unique thing but ended up going with regular weapon swap, at least for now. I really can’t much complain about getting an extra 5 skills though.

Also, it makes more sense thematically if you can swap your legend and swap into weapons that fit them better, no? Running hammer with Jalis makes sense, but hammer on Shiro is more difficult to make it fit thematically.

Xenon.4537:

Good job guys. You complained and begged for an unimaginative solution, and you got it. Now the class is doomed to be boring as all hell. There were plenty of way better ideas than duct-taping default weapon swap to the class.

Sometimes the best and most practical fixes to problems are not the most imaginative ones nor should they be.

MiniEquine.6014:

Xenon.4537:

Good job guys. You complained and begged for an unimaginative solution, and you got it. Now the class is doomed to be boring as all hell. There were plenty of way better ideas than duct-taping default weapon swap to the class.

To be fair, Anet had every ability to make it that unique thing but ended up going with regular weapon swap, at least for now. I really can’t much complain about getting an extra 5 skills though.

Also, it makes more sense thematically if you can swap your legend and swap into weapons that fit them better, no? Running hammer with Jalis makes sense, but hammer on Shiro is more difficult to make it fit thematically.

Yeah, it’s great and all to have the weapon swap. It’s just not a solution to the deeper problem. You put a band-aid on a surface cut when the patient was suffering from internal bleeding.

You have weapon versatility. Great. What about skillful play? Where is it? The Revenant’s main mechanic is legends which cost energy to use. Energy is nothing but a passive resource that you can’t influence other than consuming it. It’s like thief initiative, but at least thieves get traits and skills to boost initiative. Revs don’t. It’s also like warrior adrenalin. You just wait for it to build up and then spam it down. And again, at least warriors get traits to affect adrenalin. Revs don’t.

Energy is a watered-down version of existing mechanics with none of the possible modifiers and no chance of a better player using it more effectively than a bad player. Now that you’ve added weapon swapping, it would be even harder to balance a skillfully-based energy system.

Genesis.8572:

Xenon.4537:

Good job guys. You complained and begged for an unimaginative solution, and you got it. Now the class is doomed to be boring as all hell. There were plenty of way better ideas than duct-taping default weapon swap to the class.

Sometimes the best and most practical fixes to problems are not the most imaginative ones nor should they be.

That is just depressing. If this is how humans think, I’m ashamed to be one.

Xenon.4537:

MiniEquine.6014:

Xenon.4537:

Good job guys. You complained and begged for an unimaginative solution, and you got it. Now the class is doomed to be boring as all hell. There were plenty of way better ideas than duct-taping default weapon swap to the class.

To be fair, Anet had every ability to make it that unique thing but ended up going with regular weapon swap, at least for now. I really can’t much complain about getting an extra 5 skills though.

Also, it makes more sense thematically if you can swap your legend and swap into weapons that fit them better, no? Running hammer with Jalis makes sense, but hammer on Shiro is more difficult to make it fit thematically.

Yeah, it’s great and all to have the weapon swap. It’s just not a solution to the deeper problem. You put a band-aid on a surface cut when the patient was suffering from internal bleeding.

You have weapon versatility. Great. What about skillful play? Where is it? The Revenant’s main mechanic is legends which cost energy to use. Energy is nothing but a passive resource that you can’t influence other than consuming it. It’s like thief initiative, but at least thieves get traits and skills to boost initiative. Revs don’t. It’s also like warrior adrenalin. You just wait for it to build up and then spam it down. And again, at least warriors get traits to affect adrenalin. Revs don’t.

Energy is a watered-down version of existing mechanics with none of the possible modifiers and no chance of a better player using it more effectively than a bad player. Now that you’ve added weapon swapping, it would be even harder to balance a skillfully-based energy system.

I addressed this in your thread, and I thoroughly disagree with you. Head over there for that.

im againts it but seeing as they wont give us 6 more skills to each legend another weapon will do

Xenon.4537:

That is just depressing. If this is how humans think, I’m ashamed to be one.

You don’t need to reinvent the wheel every time you design a new car. You should be honest with yourself. You are more upset that they did not use your solution and what you think would have been more creative rather than any of this hoopla you are storming up about creativity.

Congorats on your fix, weapon swap complainers. Now comes the insanse Utility (6-0) Skills uber-nerfs to balance this.

Thank you…..

Xenon.4537:

Genesis.8572:

Xenon.4537:

Good job guys. You complained and begged for an unimaginative solution, and you got it. Now the class is doomed to be boring as all hell. There were plenty of way better ideas than duct-taping default weapon swap to the class.

Sometimes the best and most practical fixes to problems are not the most imaginative ones nor should they be.

That is just depressing. If this is how humans think, I’m ashamed to be one.

If you’re just going to post insultive remarks towards people, do it in another thread. Infact, better yet, don’t do it at all.

BUT how does it actually work? Is there one button for Legend & Weaponswap (both are swapped simultaneosly) or 2 buttons and I can swap legend independently from weapon?

I can’t help but feel like this is a forced change, something that wasn’t really planned – like a kneejerk reaction without thinking about the consequences. I may be wrong, all I remember is an outcry of a few loud ones and a reaction from Anet to this outcry. Was it the right move?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Congorats on your fix, weapon swap complainers. Now comes the insanse Utility (6-0) Skills uber-nerfs to balance this.

Thank you…..

Nerf? Theres nothing to nerf, they are useless already and will remain so. Theres no reason to buff them anymore.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Xenon.4537:

Genesis.8572:

Xenon.4537:

Good job guys. You complained and begged for an unimaginative solution, and you got it. Now the class is doomed to be boring as all hell. There were plenty of way better ideas than duct-taping default weapon swap to the class.

Sometimes the best and most practical fixes to problems are not the most imaginative ones nor should they be.

That is just depressing. If this is how humans think, I’m ashamed to be one.

If you’re just going to post insultive remarks towards people, do it in another thread. Infact, better yet, don’t do it at all.

To be fair Josh, Genesis’ first post of this thread is just as condescendingly insulting.

skowcia.8257:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Congorats on your fix, weapon swap complainers. Now comes the insanse Utility (6-0) Skills uber-nerfs to balance this.

Thank you…..

Nerf? Theres nothing to nerf, they are useless already and will remain so. Theres no reason to buff them anymore.

Just shutter in horror at what is to come next due to balancing weapon swap. I already see the salt building up from the other classes…. Look at those red rims around their eyes!

Mark my words here Weaponswap Criers. Mark my words. There will be Utility nerfs.

skowcia.8257:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Congorats on your fix, weapon swap complainers. Now comes the insanse Utility (6-0) Skills uber-nerfs to balance this.

Thank you…..

Nerf? Theres nothing to nerf, they are useless already and will remain so. Theres no reason to buff them anymore.

And will remain so? Wow, what an arrogant, presumptive, and utterly ignorant remark.

Genesis.8572:

But what about all those poor people who claimed that weapon swap is not needed for the Revenant, have proposed overly-complicated weapon-swap alternatives, or have threatened to cancel their pre-orders if Revenant gets it?

It wasn’t needed, they could have designed the class with or without it just fine.

And honestly, this hasn’t made that big of a difference and the class is still disappointing, so far as customization is concerned this rose the Revenants four build decisions up to… FIVE! I can hardly contain my excitement.

Conncept.7638:

Genesis.8572:

But what about all those poor people who claimed that weapon swap is not needed for the Revenant, have proposed overly-complicated weapon-swap alternatives, or have threatened to cancel their pre-orders if Revenant gets it?

It wasn’t needed, they could have designed the class with or without it just fine.

And honestly, this hasn’t made that big of a difference and the class is still disappointing, so far as customization is concerned this rose the Revenants four build decisions up to… FIVE! I can hardly contain my excitement.

Yeah thats the one issue I had, and have, with the revenant. very low build diversity.

very happy about this…and after watching shiro, excited again for this profession.

Conncept.7638:

It wasn’t needed, they could have designed the class with or without it just fine.

As the Revenant stood? Yeah. It needed some form of skill #1-5 variability.

And honestly, this hasn’t made that big of a difference and the class is still disappointing, so far as customization is concerned this rose the Revenants four build decisions up to… FIVE! I can hardly contain my excitement.

I certainly don’t think that the Revenant is close to done, as I agree that it needs more build variability via its trait design and utility options. Weapon skill flexibility was simply one of the issues.

Genesis.8572:

Conncept.7638:

It wasn’t needed, they could have designed the class with or without it just fine.

As the Revenant stood? Yeah. It needed some form of skill #1-5 variability.

Yeah, but the reason that variability was needed in the first place was not to create more build options, but because of how all the weapon skills are shoehorned in to being combined with one specific trait path and set of utility skills. Which is a monster of a design issue all on its own.

As things are, this change really hasn’t even helped diversity at all. On the livestream, once the developer got in to actual combat, how did he build? Ogden legend>Ogden trait line>Hammer//Shiro Legend>Shiro Trait Line>Swords. How much you want to bet that if he had gone Shiro and Ventari he would instead have been wielding a staff with the centaur trait line instead of the hammer and ogden line?

This whole class is designed around dependency rather than synergy, to the point of rendering the very customization system moot. You know how ANet just took out dozens of traits because either people took the weapon/utility skill the trait affected and the trait, or neither? That’s exactly what they are doing with this entire class so far.

In reality what the class needs, regardless of whether it has a weapon swap or not, is customization which work toward the classes mechanics rather than those themes specific to each legend. That way there can be crossover, options, and synergy between legends, weapons, and traits rather than just four clear undiverging paths up the customization tree.

Genesis.8572:

Conncept.7638:

And honestly, this hasn’t made that big of a difference and the class is still disappointing, so far as customization is concerned this rose the Revenants four build decisions up to… FIVE! I can hardly contain my excitement.

I certainly don’t think that the Revenant is close to done, as I agree that it needs more build variability via its trait design and utility options. Weapon skill flexibility was simply one of the issues.

I really hope you are right, but a lot of the developer comments really sound like they are totally okay with the revenant launching with this pitiful level of build customization.

Conncept.7638:

As things are, this change really hasn’t even helped diversity at all, even on the livestream, once the developer got in to actual combat, how did he build? Ogden legend>Ogden trait line>Hammer//Shiro Legend>Shiro Trait Line>Swords. How much you want to bet that if he had gone Shiro and Ventari instead he would have been wielding a staff with the centaur trait line?

There was also more criticism of the hammer, so I suspect Roy was also trying to showcase the combat improvements to the hammer.

In reality what the class needs, regardless of whether it has a weapon swap or not, is customization which work toward the classes mechanics rather than those themes specific to each legend. That way there can be crossover, options, and synergy between legends, weapons, and traits rather than just four clear undiverging paths up the customization tree.

This is indeed beside the point of weapon swapping.

So, how are on swap sigils going to work now, will they get proc’d with legend swap, weapon swap, or both?

Genesis.8572:

Xenon.4537:

That is just depressing. If this is how humans think, I’m ashamed to be one.

You don’t need to reinvent the wheel every time you design a new car. You should be honest with yourself. You are more upset that they did not use your solution and what you think would have been more creative rather than any of this hoopla you are storming up about creativity.

Thug life music in background.
+1

Genesis.8572:

But what about all those poor people who claimed that weapon swap is not needed for the Revenant, have proposed overly-complicated weapon-swap alternatives, or have threatened to cancel their pre-orders if Revenant gets it?

Obviously those people are not enough in number compared to the vast amount that called for weapon swap.

For maybe every 10 posts wanting weapon swap or attunement like system I saw maybe one asking to stay with only 1 weapon set and none of their arguments were insightful or valid.

Julie Yann.5379:

So, how are on swap sigils going to work now, will they get proc’d with legend swap, weapon swap, or both?

Swap sigils never proc’ed with legend swap.

Weapon swap is nice but having skills change on legend similar to ele attunements would have been nicer but I understand it would have taken lots more work so they took the easy way out.

At the 3min mark (or a bit before), Roy says they added weapon swap so that it would be easier and more fluid to melee and range. I main an ele. I want to melee and range, not one or the other. Where’s my weapon swap?

Ignore the elements and the skills which can (and can’t) be used for a given scenario, the precedent has been set here. I’m sure engi’s wouldn’t mind a weapon swap ability either.