Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
(edited by nearlight.3064)
RIP Demon Lord Mallyx
Copied from another thread for maximum visibility:
Wow I am absolutely against those mallyx changes. Mallyx was my favorite legend! I understand the change on most skills but making embrace the darkness not copy conditions anymore is a huuuuge hit. There’s no reason to use pain absorption if all those condis you absorb are not gonna get transfered back to your enemy! Do you have any idea how fun it was to embrace the darkness on a ranger with entangle?
I can understand removing the self applied condis and the change to displacement, in fact I like them more like this as mallyx was about condi manipulation instead of condi output, but I will have to please ask, reconsider the embrace the darkness condition pulse! It was what made Mallyx unique imo. Now we’re just another necro. (Ironically better than them still though)
TL;DR: I’m in the same boat, all the other changes are alright, but Embrace the Darkness MUST keep the condi pulse.
Wait for bw3 to test the changes before saying the legend is “gutted.” If it feels weak while playing, it will be fixed, but you can’t know how it will work 100% without playing it.
I kinda have to agree. It was already difficult to maintain due to the large upkeep + only applying a few seconds of Resistance when traited, but now it seems incredibly weak.
A single stack of Torment every second in a small AoE sounds pathetic as is, but not copying conditions not only removes a lot of flavor from the skill, but also a chance to punish Condi Bombing or allowing the Revenant to Condi-bomb back.
I really hope they either revert this or make it more powerful, because it seems far too costly for just a few stacks of Torment in such a small radius. The +10% stats is nice, but not the primary reason of the skill.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
I am so kittened that this got nerfed….
Wait for bw3 to test the changes before saying the legend is “gutted.” If it feels weak while playing, it will be fixed, but you can’t know how it will work 100% without playing it.
I played mallyx extensively to know this is a huge hit. It was my favorite legend, and I clocked in 60 hours of revenant last weekend. EtD was that one skill that you wouldn’t use very often but when you did it was devastating. It literally had one role and it did that perfectly, and it was also the main flavor of the legend as well as the whole point of its design: “take condis, spread them back”.
It’s like removing quickness from shiro’s impossible odds, you now just have an upkeep that gives super speed. Wow, fun!
I am gonna be trying my absolute best to make the devs reconsider such huge change.
Wait for bw3 to test the changes before saying the legend is “gutted.” If it feels weak while playing, it will be fixed, but you can’t know how it will work 100% without playing it.
I played mallyx extensively to know this is a huge hit. It was my favorite legend, and I clocked in 60 hours of revenant last weekend. EtD was that one skill that you wouldn’t use very often but when you did it was devastating. It literally had one role and it did that perfectly, and it was also the main flavor of the legend as well as the whole point of its design: “take condis, spread them back”.
It’s like removing quickness from shiro’s impossible odds, you now just have an upkeep that gives super speed. Wow, fun!
I am gonna be trying my absolute best to make the devs reconsider such huge change.
I have not clocked as many hours on Mallyx as you have, and you have the right to refute everything I’m about to say, but please listen. I agree that the flavor of Mallyx has been sullied, but I also agree with Roy’s thought process behind it. I quite enjoyed 1v1 against condi heavy classes, but most of my time in Mallyx was during team fights. I run with several people who slot a lot of condi removal. Mallyx, to me, felt as though I was fighting both the enemy AND my own teammates. All in all, I feel the changes to Embrace the Darkness could be a step in the right direction, but they will need to be tested and, if underpowered (which it seems to be now), tuned properly by either adding new condis to the mix (maybe poison to further increase the use of Venom Enhancement) or increasing the stacks of torment applied. As I see it, all that’s been lost is a lot of flavor. Roy has been very kind to us these past few months, and seems to have the Revenants best interests at heart, so I trust him to tune Mallyx once we’ve all had a chance to test the changes and see how they stand in game.
Reposted from the sticky thread as it is relevant here:
I’m very sad right now for the gutting of the Legendary Demon Stance. I get get the point that was being made as it made it difficult to run with others who were pulsing condition cleanse, but it seems like it was taken too far.
Mallyx now seems very bland. I loved the unique feel of Mallyx in BW1 and BW2. He was unique, interesting, and had his own play style. Seems now he is a poor man’s necromancer or condi engi. Even with these changes, I was surprised that he didn’t deal in more “corruption” given that is what his trait line is even named. He applies some conditions and that is it. He doesn’t transfer much, he doesn’t corrupt, he doesn’t absorb and send back at all.
Suggestions: Give Mallyx some unique corruption mechanics.
-Have a skill that steals conditions from allies and instantly transfer them to enemies.
-Perhaps another skill that applies a stack of torment, then also applies another stack of any condition the target already has on them.
-An upkeep skill that returns all incoming conditions to their source (if somebody tries to apply a condition to you, they receive the condition themselves instead)
Things along those lines that are unique and interesting.
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
Wait for bw3 to test the changes before saying the legend is “gutted.” If it feels weak while playing, it will be fixed, but you can’t know how it will work 100% without playing it.
I played mallyx extensively to know this is a huge hit. It was my favorite legend, and I clocked in 60 hours of revenant last weekend. EtD was that one skill that you wouldn’t use very often but when you did it was devastating. It literally had one role and it did that perfectly, and it was also the main flavor of the legend as well as the whole point of its design: “take condis, spread them back”.
It’s like removing quickness from shiro’s impossible odds, you now just have an upkeep that gives super speed. Wow, fun!
I am gonna be trying my absolute best to make the devs reconsider such huge change.
I have not clocked as many hours on Mallyx as you have, and you have the right to refute everything I’m about to say, but please listen. I agree that the flavor of Mallyx has been sullied, but I also agree with Roy’s thought process behind it. I quite enjoyed 1v1 against condi heavy classes, but most of my time in Mallyx was during team fights. I run with several people who slot a lot of condi removal. Mallyx, to me, felt as though I was fighting both the enemy AND my own teammates. All in all, I feel the changes to Embrace the Darkness could be a step in the right direction, but they will need to be tested and, if underpowered (which it seems to be now), tuned properly by either adding new condis to the mix (maybe poison to further increase the use of Venom Enhancement) or increasing the stacks of torment applied. As I see it, all that’s been lost is a lot of flavor. Roy has been very kind to us these past few months, and seems to have the Revenants best interests at heart, so I trust him to tune Mallyx once we’ve all had a chance to test the changes and see how they stand in game.
I could’ve totally understood a nerf, something like pulsing up to 3 of your condis per second. But outright removing condi transfer from this skill just completely kills the whole purpose of the legend
The change to the skill makes it just purely situational, but removing the self applying conditions was good, EtD it still is useful as it is, but it’s just weaker in the sense that it adds nothing to condition pressure itself but it does help with damage output and mitigation because of the stat change, practically if you want to run Malyx you either need to run Herald and make a celestial hybrid, or run rampager or carrion, depending on stat choice the trait lines, runes and sigils will change, but it’s more than likely that one weaponset will have geo/doom as stapple and you’re gonna be using condition on skill usage runes such as krait or balthazar, it’s not a condition manipulation stance now, it’s more like condition management with an option to tank if you run Jalis+Retribution or Glint+Herald, or just condi burst if you run Shiro+Malyx but that leaves you with suboptimal survival options whatsoever. Also this makes condition Revenant literally useless in PvE as the only 2 conditions with reliable damage output Revenants have are Poison and Burning, Confusion and Torment are crap for PvE
Wait for bw3 to test the changes before saying the legend is “gutted.” If it feels weak while playing, it will be fixed, but you can’t know how it will work 100% without playing it.
I feel gutted is reasonable even before the event. The whole concept of the legend was practically 180’d. How about a trait that stops condition cleansing to yourself when in demon stance.
I’d preferred if they just gave the elite a 90sec cooldown then just remove such an interesting mechanic.
Honestly I’m not sure i’d call it a nerf. It lost the ability to copy conditions, but gained the ability to add more torment, pulsing it every second; with a 6 second duration you can get 6 stacks not even counting the other sources of torment we have.
That being said, though, it IS a loss of its uniqueness, and THAT does bother me.
condi revnant will still exist just fine. most primaly used banish enchantment anyhow for condi pressure from the utilities.
The displacment nurf hurt alot for utilties for reviving allies or knocking people out of certain areas such as nodes or shadow refuge.
I agree, the ult change is horendous.
Same here…they’ve really gutted what made Mallyx so unique and interesting and just turned him into a poor man’s necromancer condition build…
Same here…they’ve really gutted what made Mallyx so unique and interesting and just turned him into a poor man’s necromancer condition build…
You do realize necromancer is one of the worst condition builds out there, right? You might want to cry about engineers instead.
I saw these changes myself and immediately winced. I’m okay with most the changes. I really am. I LIKED the whole design of the build originally, but I could stomach everything except the change to Embrace the Darkness. The elite is now completely ‘useless’, and as a result the entire stance is (as stated) completely gutted. I saw this as a really unique playstyle that actually COUNTERS condition builds (rather than just cleanses) much like you can build a necromancer for, but a more melee variant of this.
With the changes to Embrace the Darkness, it’s now honestly not worth the upkeep or, imo, even using the stance. As it was, it was a great stance to use for both condition builds AND Direct Damage builds because it offered you an avenue for dealing with conditions. Nor was it overpowered in this, because you’re giving up: Assassin- High mobility and direct damage, Dwarf – Great stability and general sturdiness/damage, Centaur – Healing, obviously, Dragon – Auras and all the tasty mechanics that come with this.
Now this stance has been reduced to a rather sub-par condition stance that is…bland. Really, really ‘bland’. Before it offered a unique playstyle, but now the only use anyone is going to get out of the stance is for dedicated condition builds as it will have no real cross-build viability. And that, to me, is reducing an amazing class into so much less than it could be.
TLDR: Mally is now bland, typical condition stance instead of being something special and, where it once offered viability for various builds, is now pigeonholed into Condition Builds. Utterly destroyed.
Note: I’m sad to see displacement go, but that’s a change I can deal with. Please bring back the old functionality of Embrace the Darkness!
Same here…they’ve really gutted what made Mallyx so unique and interesting and just turned him into a poor man’s necromancer condition build…
You do realize necromancer is one of the worst condition builds out there, right? You might want to cry about engineers instead.
He might just be saying Mallyx is worse than Necro’s condi build…kinda exaggerated, but well, EtD kinda got turned into an AoE Mace Auto-attack, so yea.
I have to admit I didn’t see the 180 coming. If we’re honest, everything unique and subsequently fun about Revenant was pretty much because of Mallyx.
I can’t understand what is so impossible to fix about Embrace the Darkness. Just make it be impossible to be cleansed from any other source than yourself for the duration or rather than be cleansed be healed a small amount instead. Give it a 15s CD and its fine.
As for Unyeilding Anguish, ok it was perhaps a bit too strong but either give it a 5 sec CD so it can’t be spammed or make it a knockback on cast and keep the pulsing chill. Mallyx needs some sort of denial skill effect to make it actually interesting. I don’t buy the ‘players found it too confusing’ thats an l2p issue – which also means the skill cap is lowered and its just more bland.
Wait for bw3 to test the changes before saying the legend is “gutted.” If it feels weak while playing, it will be fixed, but you can’t know how it will work 100% without playing it.
I played mallyx extensively to know this is a huge hit. It was my favorite legend, and I clocked in 60 hours of revenant last weekend. EtD was that one skill that you wouldn’t use very often but when you did it was devastating. It literally had one role and it did that perfectly, and it was also the main flavor of the legend as well as the whole point of its design: “take condis, spread them back”.
It’s like removing quickness from shiro’s impossible odds, you now just have an upkeep that gives super speed. Wow, fun!
I am gonna be trying my absolute best to make the devs reconsider such huge change.
I have not clocked as many hours on Mallyx as you have, and you have the right to refute everything I’m about to say, but please listen. I agree that the flavor of Mallyx has been sullied, but I also agree with Roy’s thought process behind it. I quite enjoyed 1v1 against condi heavy classes, but most of my time in Mallyx was during team fights. I run with several people who slot a lot of condi removal. Mallyx, to me, felt as though I was fighting both the enemy AND my own teammates. All in all, I feel the changes to Embrace the Darkness could be a step in the right direction, but they will need to be tested and, if underpowered (which it seems to be now), tuned properly by either adding new condis to the mix (maybe poison to further increase the use of Venom Enhancement) or increasing the stacks of torment applied. As I see it, all that’s been lost is a lot of flavor. Roy has been very kind to us these past few months, and seems to have the Revenants best interests at heart, so I trust him to tune Mallyx once we’ve all had a chance to test the changes and see how they stand in game.
Well, to be honest when Roy said he’d change Mallyx to be nicer with teamplay, I expected an actual solution, such as a “buff” preventing all condition cleanses while in Mallyx, or preventing condition cleanses while you have resistance. What Roy did was gut the legend and make it pretty much not worth using, since much of Mallyx revenant in a condi build’s damage came from Embrace the Darkness’s ability to copy condi bombs.
The change also screws with the whole point of resistance in the first place. The self-applied conditions were pretty negligable, but everything about this change just feels rushed, and like a horribly cheap cop out to avoid spening more manpower and time on coding an ideal solution.
Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Hate to see Mallyx nerfed like this, it had such a unique playstyle that I loved. It really felt like you turned into a condi feasting monster.
I think the initial landing of Unyielding Anguish should still displace enemies.
Also maybe make Embrace the Darkness copy at least 3 condies? If not then please decrease the Upkeep cost. -8 doesn’t feel worth.
And to make Mallyx still feel like it’s about condition management and wanting to have condies on yourself, the heal changes should be reverted too. The heal currently has nothing interesting in it, it’s just a heal. With the heal increase per condi on you it felt more rewarding and it gave you the health needed if you ran out of resistance.
What is more, Pain Absorption doesn’t fit the kit anymore. Why would I want conditions on me anymore, when I benefit from them in no way. Only reason to activate PA now is resistance.
I will probably still use Mallyx for the resistance, AoE ally cleanse and boon rips, but these nerfs make other legends look much more desirable.
Nymeriali #Druid
[TLA] Desolation (EU)
[TLA] Desolation (EU)
(edited by My Sweet Lily.1952)
If we don’t get the ability to copy conditions back then the upkeep should cost less. It doesn’t seem worth using otherwise.
I love to the old mallyx, the feelings to be a condition feast monster. I’m pretty confusing to these changes and most on the elite one. But i still try it before speaking of it. But very confusing for me. Idk some others changes beside mallyx are good.
I harshly criticized Mallyx in the past. This legend had and has many flaws (condi healed from allies, resistance trait mandatory, stacking condition is useless) and so on.
However the direction of those changes is right.
Hold the while for after BW3. This is a direction. Test Mallyx and if it’s not good just give feedback.
In some situations this is a Buff in most situation its a Nerf to the whole Mallyx. But its now a completely new Hero Stance, basicly a total change in Mechanic and the sad part it was 1 of the few Stances if not the only one that made Revenant unque…
The displacement changes tho made due to bugs, were a unique Rev experience that actually made it annoying to other classes and therefor fun. Removeing this completely is more hurtfull to the class then say Self-Conditions.
Displacement was Revenant imho, and this is shameful cause u had so many many months to test this and to get it right but 5weeks pre-launch u deside “lets remove the mechanic” and u sadly removed a big chunk of the Revenant by doing so.
The self-condi stuff I can understand, Gw2 is an MMO and grouping is a part of the game hence AoE cleanses totally mess up this mechanic abit strange tho that u still DONT remove this from Necros Corruption skills ?
Underjordens Furste 80 Necro Piken-server
Servant of Dhuum
Servant of Dhuum
Displacement was Revenant imho
I don’t think it was intended however.
Displacement was Revenant imho
I don’t think it was intended however.
Well I cant say it was or wasnt but It made the class unique to me and most likely make me leave Mallyx alltogether
Underjordens Furste 80 Necro Piken-server
Servant of Dhuum
Servant of Dhuum
Unyielding Anguish should just get it’s range increased to smthing like 900 to actually work like a leap and not just a shady AoE chill. That would actually be some good compensation for the rework.
As for Embrace the Darkness: it could’ve been nerfed on so many other ways. Just removing it seems such poor balancing. RIP balancing.
Displacement was Revenant imho
I don’t think it was intended however.
Well I cant say it was or wasnt but It made the class unique to me and most likely make me leave Mallyx alltogether
the class is already “unique”.
revenant is legend and energy management, not mallyx, nor unyelding anguish.
I’m not saying I don’t agree on the fact that this is a nerf. However I’ll wait and see how it plays out in BW3 before crying.
Come on, how many threads on this mallyx “nerf”? And nobody had the chance to play it.
the class is already “unique”.
revenant is legend and energy management, not mallyx, nor unyelding anguish.I’m not saying I don’t agree on the fact that this is a nerf. However I’ll wait and see how it plays out in BW3 before crying.
Come on, how many threads on this mallyx “nerf”? And nobody had the chance to play it.
Well, condi rev was strong but not OP or gamebreaking. By totally removing the thing that allowed it to be so strong without buffing anything (besides a little extra poison in the traits), it’s pretty safe to say it’s just another condition build with conditions only being applied through the users output. And yes, while theres a GM trait that does the same still exists, this is not able to time and just is ’’another’’ condi pressure skill. Especially since its only 3 seconds.
How are you supposed to have a good condi output in any group play with condi cleanse? That’s why mallyx was mainly used in pvp. Other classes have too many active and passive aoe cleanses.
Also Unyelding Anguish was bugged or simply op in pvp. Of course it was going to be changed or nerfed.
Those changes are in the right direction. If condi output is low it will be buffed.
Come on, how many threads on this mallyx “nerf”? And nobody had the chance to play it.
This isn’t the normal “the sky is falling” complaint when something is changed. They totally changed the base mechanic of Condition counterplay/ punishment to High resistance while adding little for the high energy use. I totally understand the displacement changes. It was a bit clunky and went through stabilization so in pvp you could blink someone trying to get ressed all over the place.
Lets face it poison and torment is generally pretty bad in PVE because poison ticks for 250 with 3 stacks and enemys rarely heal themselves. Torment only hurts while the enemy moves and most people tank stuff unless its a boss. If it isn’t moving it does 1/3 the damage.
For PVP Lots of torment is pretty good but since you are only applying torment and poison (and the low duration freeze)cleansing two conditions pretty regularly is easy making it also not that great.
Increase the energy use and/or add a larger cool down but don’t just remove the condition copy.
In my opinion, the conditions copy removal is a mistake and makes the whole legend just weak, a possible solution that can make happy everyone is give the option to add the effect of copy conditions to the enemy when traited (just adding a GM trait for this, obviously something should be removed/adjusted to do so).
EDIT: typos
[SoW] Sông Of War – Baruch Bay
Displacement was Revenant imho
I don’t think it was intended however.
Well I cant say it was or wasnt but It made the class unique to me and most likely make me leave Mallyx alltogether
the class is already “unique”.
revenant is legend and energy management, not mallyx, nor unyelding anguish.I’m not saying I don’t agree on the fact that this is a nerf. However I’ll wait and see how it plays out in BW3 before crying.
Come on, how many threads on this mallyx “nerf”? And nobody had the chance to play it.
Energy management? More like cooldown management cause that’s what it’s turning into.
And if you need a beta to see how the Mallyx changes are horrible you know absolutely nothing about the game. Plain and simple. Yes, displacement had to leave. The self condis I CAN understand, but am not a fan of. But the condi copying gone? Do you REALLY need to test that to realize it’s an absolutely uncalled for change?
I read a thread in WvW which complain about pressured by condi thief and Mesmer. Being able to absorb conditions from allies and transfer back should be a very fun counter. But this is no more with the proposed changes.
Similar to something someone wrote above, if you don’t want condi copying back, make it at least this:
When you enter Embrace the Darkness, inflict torment in large radius, you and allies in small radius around you gain buff, reflecting back incoming conditions to its sources. (Counts from your condi dmg)
I am lazy to write it over and over. So sorry for my English.
My main gripe with the changes is that Mallyx lost access to all of his non-damaging conditions.
With the old self-condis and embrace the darkness, we could pulse blind, vulnerability, cripple, weakness on our own. Now we don’t have any extra conditions to apply to stop our damaging ones from being cleansed instantly.
“If it ain’t broke don’t fix it” – Mallyx
The self-condi stuff I can understand, Gw2 is an MMO and grouping is a part of the game hence AoE cleanses totally mess up this mechanic abit strange tho that u still DONT remove this from Necros Corruption skills ?
As a necro main gotta admit these Mallyx changes do sting. Mallyx was essentially Corruptions done right, self inflicted conditions with a good payoff and synergy for hurting yourself. I really was hoping to see some improvements to corruptions based on how well Mallyx worked, and now…. not looking good for an overhaul to corruptions once again.
The self-condi stuff I can understand, Gw2 is an MMO and grouping is a part of the game hence AoE cleanses totally mess up this mechanic abit strange tho that u still DONT remove this from Necros Corruption skills ?
As a necro main gotta admit these Mallyx changes do sting. Mallyx was essentially Corruptions done right, self inflicted conditions with a good payoff and synergy for hurting yourself. I really was hoping to see some improvements to corruptions based on how well Mallyx worked, and now…. not looking good for an overhaul to corruptions once again.
I still find it stupid how they removed condis from yourself on mallyx but not from corruptions. Why is it a bother when revenants have them but not for necros? When necros have absolutely NO access to resistance and they have to take specific skills to transfer condis, when revenants had the condi transfer(or shall I say copy to be more accurate) on the exact same kit that applied those self condis.
It just keeps going over my head really
@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.
Nymeriali #Druid
[TLA] Desolation (EU)
[TLA] Desolation (EU)
@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.
That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.
@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.
That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.
I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.
“If it ain’t broke don’t fix it” – Mallyx
@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.
That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.
I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.
I think the fact it got nerfed/removed is the fact that you could spike-spam conditions. While this is a pretty nice counter to condition builds, it doesn’t really have much counterplay besides… well… not applying conditions or to lure the revenant in a 1v1 to possibly not have him stack up a lot resistance (eventhough in a 1v1 situation with herald as 2nd legend, a revenant could still gain good resistance duration).
Transfering conditions is a very powerful effect. If something like that can be spammed it can become OP very fast. Especially with the amount of conditions being output without even having a condition spec on the enemy team. That’s, however, more of a game issue than an issue that came with the revenant.ds
In it’s current state, I dont see this coming back any soon due that revenant only gets more and more condi pressure on his own. So expect him to be stronger in 1v1’s, but less effective in team fights.
So yes, I can imagine it being nerfed. Removing it is just the easy way to avoid a lot of ‘’QQ mallyx OP’’ threads honestly.
@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.
That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.
I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.
I assume this was mostly a WvW issue? In PvP and PvE, I never found the Mallyx skills to be weak with ally cleanses. I still had condis on me from my own skills and if I didn’t, the baseline effects for Mallyx were still decent enough to use without hitting the caps.
EtD still pulsed out a bit of Damage and gave me +10% stats(can be funny running around with 4k Armor + Prot + Retribution traits in PvP) and could immediately “mirror” anything sent my way while the best part of Banish Enchantment is the Boon Strip anyway, Pain Absorption is basically a group cleanse, the heal was so-so, but easy to fix, and Unyielding Anguish was a buggy CC and insanely good for de-capping(can we at least get some sort of CC on this?).
@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.
That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.
I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.
I think the fact it got nerfed/removed is the fact that you could spike-spam conditions. While this is a pretty nice counter to condition builds, it doesn’t really have much counterplay besides… well… not applying conditions or to lure the revenant in a 1v1 to possibly not have him stack up a lot resistance (eventhough in a 1v1 situation with herald as 2nd legend, a revenant could still gain good resistance duration).
Transfering conditions is a very powerful effect. If something like that can be spammed it can become OP very fast. Especially with the amount of conditions being output without even having a condition spec on the enemy team. That’s, however, more of a game issue than an issue that came with the revenant.ds
In it’s current state, I dont see this coming back any soon due that revenant only gets more and more condi pressure on his own. So expect him to be stronger in 1v1’s, but less effective in team fights.So yes, I can imagine it being nerfed. Removing it is just the easy way to avoid a lot of ‘’QQ mallyx OP’’ threads honestly.
But it didn’t get removed because “Rev OP”. It got removed because it didn’t “work well with groups”.
The counter-play to EtD is CC. Mallyx has no Stun Breaks whatsoever and EtD only gives you a whopping 2s of Resistance.
If he runs Retribution and/or Herald for Stab, then your best bet for countering it is abusing its low radius. Pain Absorption + EtD eats up a lot of Energy too, so he’s either going to swap soon or use nothing but Autos for a while.
@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.
That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.
I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.
I think the fact it got nerfed/removed is the fact that you could spike-spam conditions. While this is a pretty nice counter to condition builds, it doesn’t really have much counterplay besides… well… not applying conditions or to lure the revenant in a 1v1 to possibly not have him stack up a lot resistance (eventhough in a 1v1 situation with herald as 2nd legend, a revenant could still gain good resistance duration).
Transfering conditions is a very powerful effect. If something like that can be spammed it can become OP very fast. Especially with the amount of conditions being output without even having a condition spec on the enemy team. That’s, however, more of a game issue than an issue that came with the revenant.ds
In it’s current state, I dont see this coming back any soon due that revenant only gets more and more condi pressure on his own. So expect him to be stronger in 1v1’s, but less effective in team fights.So yes, I can imagine it being nerfed. Removing it is just the easy way to avoid a lot of ‘’QQ mallyx OP’’ threads honestly.
But it didn’t get removed because “Rev OP”. It got removed because it didn’t “work well with groups”.
The counter-play to EtD is CC. Mallyx has no Stun Breaks whatsoever and EtD only gives you a whopping 2s of Resistance.
If he runs Retribution and/or Herald for Stab, then your best bet for countering it is abusing its low radius. Pain Absorption + EtD eats up a lot of Energy too, so he’s either going to swap soon or use nothing but Autos for a while.
You forgot to mention boon removal. If a Mallyx user had enough conditions on them to make etd powerful and got stripped of their resistance, they would be in a really bad spot. They could be easily counted by mesmers, a well timed steal, and especially necromancers.
“If it ain’t broke don’t fix it” – Mallyx
@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.
That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.
I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.
I think the fact it got nerfed/removed is the fact that you could spike-spam conditions. While this is a pretty nice counter to condition builds, it doesn’t really have much counterplay besides… well… not applying conditions or to lure the revenant in a 1v1 to possibly not have him stack up a lot resistance (eventhough in a 1v1 situation with herald as 2nd legend, a revenant could still gain good resistance duration).
Transfering conditions is a very powerful effect. If something like that can be spammed it can become OP very fast. Especially with the amount of conditions being output without even having a condition spec on the enemy team. That’s, however, more of a game issue than an issue that came with the revenant.ds
In it’s current state, I dont see this coming back any soon due that revenant only gets more and more condi pressure on his own. So expect him to be stronger in 1v1’s, but less effective in team fights.So yes, I can imagine it being nerfed. Removing it is just the easy way to avoid a lot of ‘’QQ mallyx OP’’ threads honestly.
But it didn’t get removed because “Rev OP”. It got removed because it didn’t “work well with groups”.
The counter-play to EtD is CC. Mallyx has no Stun Breaks whatsoever and EtD only gives you a whopping 2s of Resistance.
If he runs Retribution and/or Herald for Stab, then your best bet for countering it is abusing its low radius. Pain Absorption + EtD eats up a lot of Energy too, so he’s either going to swap soon or use nothing but Autos for a while.
Well, that’s a general counter to revenant and as you already said with the stability on dodge (which pretty much every build requires), you would need quite a few people to CC. A mesmer could go in for a shatter but he would kitten himself up with that too if he gets hit even once by the condi spike.
Well.. resistance wasn’t really relied on EtD anyway so I don’t quite understand what you mean with this? That you would harm yourself quite fast? Cause the general combo was pain absorber into EtD, which gave more than enough resistance.
Honestly moving out of range is a nice counter, but in practice that just doesn’t really work. A revenant isn’t slow and has quite a few blinks to get to his enemy. (Especially if you have axe equiped). Not only that, but the stance is instantly activated, meaning if you are already close enough, you only have to klick the skill. No casting time required and you already applied all conditions on your enemy. Of course this only lasts 3 seconds so getting off the fully spike time after time is not accomplished yet, but you get the point. It’s like a pulsing, aoe and stronger version of signet of spite without casting time in some situations.
A good nerf would be to cap the amount of conditions you would transfer over to your enemy, have a casting time or increase the interval from 1 to 3 seconds so you wouldn’t overwrite your conditions so they stack 3 times before the new stack of conditions are applied.
Please do note that I dislike the way they have handled the skill by removing it’s functionality totally, but agree it should have been nerfed.
(edited by BlackDevil.9268)
Wait a minute what? What?? WHAT! Why How? Who concieved this monstrosity? I had crafted my first ever hybrid build consisting of Mallyx and Glint and now you’re telling me they did perhaps the most hardcore nerf on a skill yet? And I’m a thief! Anet please be the angry dad in the minivan and turn this vehicle around because we are upset.
Shawtell, Zen Verani, Rayshia Howen, Iyado, Colace Nzoir, Arteel Fyrien [Teef]
I think it’s worth pointing out that at one point Roy called the changes to Mallyx “Necessary to the health of the game in the future” or something along these lines, on twitter I think. Although the issue he raised up to justify the changes is valid (it was hard to keep up Mallyx’s bonuses when condi cleanses are so prominent in coordinated play), I’m inclined to believe a strong reason to do this is that not only there was this problematic nature of the clash between Mallyx’s playstyle and group cleanses, but also because Embrace the Darkness hardcountered all condi builds in the game, and has no counter outside of… not applying conditions to the Revenant, like BlackDevil pointed out. When you consider that conditions are supposed to be Revenant’s weakness (although I’m hopeful we’ll see more changes in the future to help Revenant not be like Warrior was at launch), it’s easy to see why the old Embrace the Darkness had to be changed, specially in the PvP scene.
I think it’s worth pointing out that at one point Roy called the changes to Mallyx “Necessary to the health of the game in the future” or something along these lines, on twitter I think. Although the issue he raised up to justify the changes is valid (it was hard to keep up Mallyx’s bonuses when condi cleanses are so prominent in coordinated play), I’m inclined to believe a strong reason to do this is that not only there was this problematic nature of the clash between Mallyx’s playstyle and group cleanses, but also because Embrace the Darkness hardcountered all condi builds in the game, and has no counter outside of… not applying conditions to the Revenant, like BlackDevil pointed out. When you consider that conditions are supposed to be Revenant’s weakness (although I’m hopeful we’ll see more changes in the future to help Revenant not be like Warrior was at launch), it’s easy to see why the old Embrace the Darkness had to be changed, specially in the PvP scene.
Then he can just straight-up say: “EtD was too strong” and tweak it appropriately. It wasn’t even that crazy. It was -8 per turn, required you to use a -35 move beforehand to not die to the same conditions you were copying, was weak to CC/Boon Strip, had a low radius, had a 1s cast time, and the Conditions you copied only lasted for 3 seconds AND were only 1 stack of each.
It was a way to punish these Condi Tanks that just unloaded everything on you at once and then just sat there tanking and kiting all day. If anything, this is a better designed counter than Diamond Skin.