Guild Wars 2

The revenant is great…. very strong, and otherwise awesome.

When using a condi build… and trying to use ranged combat…. (like is sometimes required in PvE) condi damage falls through the floor…

This means no carrion, no dire, no apothecary’s and no settler’s ranged combat.

This is the only real weak point revenant has. (beyond minor energy cost imbalance… lookin’ at you Ventari’s tablet elite)

…and because certain things need ranged options… we’re SoL.

…and no… weapon sigils are not enough. They really aren’t (neither is the minor trait that demands you use precision for torment on crit, and invocation and glint stance for fury uptime)

I vote:
MH “throwing” dagger. (combo with axe/shield/sword OH)
MH “throwing” Torch. (Burning is strong, and there are no other torches MH. it would be cool)
Shortbow.
Rifle. (as there are no other condi rifles.)
MH scepter. (though this closes in on guardian’s wheelhouse.)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAS5nnfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMskFTFhtZ0qpBS0YNWufA-TxRFABfobAn9HA4iAm/kR9HPVCGkyvkfCAkCYRlVA-e

This is the build I was using for party support/ condi’s and its great, don’t get me wrong… but it means that if I’m using hammer (I would use staff in its place… but I need ranged… burning oil in ascalon frac…. thaumanova boss…. ect…) I’m doing virtually no dps… which is fine I guess, cause I’m using a ranged weapon while I manipulate the tablet… but… I also use it in melee for various purposes, and Ventari/ Mace-Axe does condi’s just fine…. Mallyx/Hammer does not.

also the minor trait in Corruption that increases poison uptime only applies to our ONE source of poison… on the third auto on mace…. perhaps make the ranged condi option focus more on poison to make the trait more viable without changing it?

Just gap close with your axe or use the long range of the fire field.

I’ve been running mace/shield + mace/axe, works fine. And it’s refreshing to play something that doesn’t rely so much on weapon swapping.

Well… I see where your coming from… but the mace isn’t ranged as such.

Every other class has a condition and direct ranged option.

And the class does rely on weapon swap. It didn’t in its initial design. .. as it originally didn’t have it at all.

But I feel that the lack of a ranged condi option seriously limits build diversity.

Let’s say I stack precision to operate the torment trait… and put sigils of earth and torment on my weapons…

Now the hammer is a barely passable condi applicator. But the mace axe is godlike. So again, no reason to use it by comparison.

We need either

A. Hammer applies conditions trait in the corruptuon tree. (Like the “poision lasts longer trait”…. could become “hammer skills have a 25% chance to cause 1stack of 5sec poison on hit, and poison lasts 20% longer”…. then the “chill on crit trait” could become “50% chance to chill on crit. 33% chance on chill to apply 1 stack of 4s poison.”

B. MH dagger.
- skill 1. Auto chain. “Throw knife” damage and poision.
- skill 1. Auto 2. “Ricochet knife” bouning knife that does high damage and venerablity.
- skill 1. Auto 3. “Fan of knives” throws a fan of knives that does poison, and torment.

-skill 2. “Mistblade” -ground target r.180- throw a knife into the ground, do x9 hits similar to “smite” as knives thrown by unseen assasins lost in the mist hit the target, every 3rd knife poisions.

-skill 3 “assassinate/mist step” shadowstep to your target with the effect of “heartseeker” (-the leap, at 3/4 damage) if done while the enemy is above 50% hp, expose “mist blast” -rend your mist portal to cause 2 burn stacks for 5 sec on your target, returning to your original position.

Or some other weapon of effect like those above I made up.

What if we just made mace auto have the same range as the rest of the mace/axe skills? 600 or 900, I think it is. Because, currently, I am finding it only semi-feasible to melee on Revnant with my Malyx/Glint line-up (I would rather Malyx/N and have better heals but oh well). So, instead, I stay at ranged and only use 2-5. I still have decent burning and torment but it also gives me the survivability of not being in the monsters face and getting body-slammed (you know that frog) or burnt to a crisp by those wyvryns.

Sure, it does not work well on some bosses, like Megadestroyer or Golem MII, but it would give us that mid-range option (like shortbow on Ranger does) for condi.

Which makes me wonder… besides warrior (lb)/ele (staff), does any class have much long-ranged condi? I keep thinking most condi damage on all the classes is mid-range (necro scepter, ranger sb or axe/torch, thief sb, engi pistols, mesmer scepter). Guard gets fire on any weapon…

Ok mid range… sure. But ranged none the less.

Making mace auto into mid ranged would solve the problem… if we normalize the ranges to 900, on all mace skills, and have the shadowstep portion of axe 4 be a “flip skill” as in throw axe and chill ‘flips’ to shadowstep in while the axe is in flight. Meaning one would press 4 to throw, 4 4 to throw and shadowstep.

I personally think ArenaNet chose not to add a ranged condi weapon yet because they want to add it for an elite specialization. Don’t forget that the originally intended for the Revenant to not weapon swap. Because of this they tied each weapon with a legend.

I guess what I’m trying to say is rest assured that a condi ranged weapon will be given to the Revenant eventually. At least in my opinion.

Tritone.1395:

I personally think ArenaNet chose not to add a ranged condi weapon yet because they want to add it for an elite specialization. Don’t forget that the originally intended for the Revenant to not weapon swap. Because of this they tied each weapon with a legend.

I guess what I’m trying to say is rest assured that a condi ranged weapon will be given to the Revenant eventually. At least in my opinion.

I want to believe you.

I really do.

but every other class had one at launch…. and I don’t know why they would leave such a glaring oversight in an otherwise really well designed class.

Ok, lets take a look at the Necromancer. Everyone disliked that the Necromancer didn’t really good damage weapon. What did ArenaNet do? They added the Reaper elite. The elite specialization system allows them to add things to classes that they are lacking. The profession was missing something at launch, so they used an elite specialization to fix it.

I want to repeat something I said earlier because I think it is important: “The Revenant was originally intended to use 1 weapon set.” With that in mind is it really that hard to believe that they wouldn’t add a ranged condi weapon since they already had M/A.

If that still doesn’t satisfy you then consider this. ArenaNet knew they were adding Elite Specializations to the game. They knew they would need things to add to the professions, so they decided to make the Revenant only cover the basics. This allows them to add a ranged Condi weapon because that is something the Revenant doesn’t have right now. Not including a condi-ranged weapon is not a “glaring oversight” it is careful planning.

Tritone.1395:

Ok, lets take a look at the Necromancer. Everyone disliked that the Necromancer didn’t really good damage weapon. What did ArenaNet do? They added the Reaper elite. The elite specialization system allows them to add things to classes that they are lacking. The profession was missing something at launch, so they used an elite specialization to fix it.

I want to repeat something I said earlier because I think it is important: “The Revenant was originally intended to use 1 weapon set.” With that in mind is it really that hard to believe that they wouldn’t add a ranged condi weapon since they already had M/A.

If that still doesn’t satisfy you then consider this. ArenaNet knew they were adding Elite Specializations to the game. They knew they would need things to add to the professions, so they decided to make the Revenant only cover the basics. This allows them to add a ranged Condi weapon because that is something the Revenant doesn’t have right now. Not including a condi-ranged weapon is not a “glaring oversight” it is careful planning.

The necro had a good Damage weapon. Death Shroud.

I still use it, on my zerk necro…. and I wont be using the greatsword… because of the ridiculously DUMB oversized scythe of FREAKING STUPID (don’t get me wrong, reaper is amazing but the graphic for the scythe is terrible.)

What other class can hit a constant string of 8k crits at 100% crit chance?

Careful planning? PFFT!!!

Your telling me they are going to release a new class…. with a 1/4 of it dedicated to conditions…. into a game that needs both ranged and melee…. with the need to stack stats to achieve damage… and fully cover “zerker” builds in melee and range… but force all condition builds to have poor dps at range?

So we have to do all the HoT content with sub par conditions. As the only class with sub par ranged condi application…. to wait for another expansion… three years from now…. and that’s “careful planning”?

No. This is an oversight, or bad design.

It can be fixed with hammer traits,

or the addition of a new weapon

(on second thought… Mace, even with ranged auto wouldn’t work, because mace 3 leaps to the target, and axe 4 shadowsteps to the target…. meaning that you cant help but gap close if you need ranged… aaaannnd… then your not at ranged…. now were back to square 1.)

if it is intentional… then:

ALL of the fractal content, and Hot content needs to be able to be done melee only. (which for fractals, at least… cant be)

or

They need to tell us why they left it out.

First off calm down.

So we have to do all the HoT content with sub par conditions. As the only class with sub par ranged condi application…. to wait for another expansion… three years from now…. and that’s “careful planning”?
They never said they’d only release elite specializations during expansions. Personally I think they’re going to release more through the living world. In fact if they release a ranged condi weapon with the next elite specialization I would say that it was careful planning.

The necro had a good Damage weapon. Death Shroud.
I’m pretty sure the entire community was in agreement that the Necromancer fell short in the DPS department. You can crit 100% of the time in Death Shroud? Cool. I can do it too as a Revenant, but here’s the difference. I can do it 100% of the time. You have to leave the shoud eventually.

It can be fixed with hammer traits,
Why would they add a condition trait to the Retribution line? Oh, add it to the Corruption line. Nope, that’s for mallyx and M/A. If you just want to add condi damage to some of its skills then run Sigil of Earth with Rampager/Rabid gear. (Crits for Condis 2015)

ALL of the fractal content, and Hot content needs to be able to be done melee only. (which for fractals, at least… cant be)
So now fractals are impossible to you because you can’t apply condis at range… Well did you ever notice that mallyx’s skills have 600 range? Is it alot? No, but it is range. Also, you can still bring a hammer and autoattack the thing. Sure it isn’t applying conditions, but it isn’t like you’re standing there because you can’t do anything.

They need to tell us why they left it out.
I think I have the answer. Scope. In the gaming industry scope means what is feasible to accomplish in the given amount of time. They are releasing ALOT of content with this expansion. Maybe they just don’t have the time to feasibly add a ranged condi weapon into the game because it would take too long. It’s not as simple as copying some Shortbow skills from one profession into another. Alot of skills will need to have custom animations to fit the revenant which is alot of work.

To wrap this all up. Let me show you how this could be careful planning:
Me: I want a ranged condi weapon
ANet: Ok here’s a new elite specialization

Me: I want a melee control/defense weapon
ANet: Ok here’s a new elite specialization

Me: I want a ranged support weapon
ANet: Ok here’s a new elite specialization.

That’s 3 elite specialization weapons that they can make. Just because I can’t support from range with a weapon doesn’t mean I can’t support at all.

First off calm down.

Your right, I was hot headed… I had just gotten my kitten kicked in stronghold assault, because of my team not understanding the game mode (to be expected) and I was pre-vape-break. My annoyance came through in what I said… yes, but I still mean it… with a little less salt.

They never said they’d only release elite specializations during expansions. Personally I think they’re going to release more through the living world. In fact if they release a ranged condi weapon with the next elite specialization I would say that it was careful planning.

True, they didn’t limit themselves to expansion only elite specs. However its the only precedent we have to work with. And if they don’t make the next weapon both ranged, and condi… it won’t have been proper planning… it will still be an oversight. So until that time, both you, and I, as we cast forward, are using rectal data.

I’m pretty sure the entire community was in agreement that the Necromancer fell short in the DPS department. You can crit 100% of the time in Death Shroud? Cool. I can do it too as a Revenant, but here’s the difference. I can do it 100% of the time. You have to leave the shoud eventually.

First, I was playing ‘Zerk necro, before it settled in as the meta. He was tooled up and powning things two months after launch. Now, the Axe/Focus didn’t have a great auto… (though it does stack venerability… giving the entire party bonus 25% dmg) but Axe 2 was easily 80% of the damage of 100 blades… and my crit rate out of shroud was 52%, meaning a full half of the channeled skill would crit every time. And I have a second health bar… so when the thieves and ele’s and warriors are dead on the floor, I’m still tanking shots… and on top of that, the MH dagger, is widely regarded as awesome, in that it does sick and wrong dps, small(ish…. like 1500) numbers to be sure… but with a 1/4 second attack speed… Clouds of white numbers appear. Oh! and that can happen while warhorn 5 ticks up damage. Both are gaining life force, so I’m only out of shroud for seconds… in which I’m using fast attack speed and channeled skills…. the reason the META didn’t favor necro’s is because they didn’t hand out might to anyone else…. it didn’t matter that my primary DPS move (DS auto) is stacking self might, and my runes/sigils of strength kept me at a perpetual 25 stack… but I couldn’t blast fire fields like the big kids. That is why the META kids didn’t like necro. It didn’t do bad DPS. It did selfish DPS.

Why would they add a condition trait to the Retribution line? Oh, add it to the Corruption line. Nope, that’s for mallyx and M/A.

True, adding the trait to Retribution makes little sense. However… now that they have embraced the need for Weapon swap (which didn’t exist before, remember. And was embraced due to the need for ranged)…. that makes the weapon=legend=trait line argument mostly moot. It means that the class needs better synergy once the trait concept is embraced. Even in the original iteration of the class, traits form say… “Invocation” would end up helping you while your in “Mallyx” despite their relative un-relation. After all, the traits are the “attributes of the Revenant telling the stories of the legends”, not of the legends themselves.

If you just want to add condi damage to some of its skills then run Sigil of Earth with Rampager/Rabid gear. (Crits for Condis 2015)

Sigils are not, even with rampager/sinister/rabid, even close to the output of what a condi weapon does. Go fight a mob with Mace/Axe, watch: you get 14 stacks of torment (w/ sigil help), 6 stacks of poison, 5 stacks of bleed (sigil here)… Then compare it to Hammer with Torment/Earth… 5 bleed stacks? 3 torment stacks? that’s IT Meaning that the primary source of your damage falls off… (11 torment and 6 poison). Then, on top of ALL THAT, you now have a sub par ranged condi weapon… and your locked out of Dire, Carrion, Apothecary’s, and Settlers… IE: all the sets you would want to put Dwarf stance + Mallyx with and thus… use the hammer with. (that is, if you hold true that the hammer is the best to put with dwarfy… it’s not btw… try the staff, it synergizes much better. I left out the condi’s provided in Mallyx, because they are always up, for the most part… BUT while your not in mallyx, you can use mace/axe to keep the condi’s from falling off… then you switch back to mallyx, and get out your hammer… and… wait…. facepalm

“BUT WAIT! AHHHA!! the other ledgends don’t apply condis!” ( I know you didn’t say this, but at this point in my argument, your likely thinking, something like it.) right… except that they do apply 2 burn stacks every 10 sec… from (gasp) a Corruption trait. And if you pick Glint, (I would but I’m pigeon holed into taking “invocation” for the 40% crit fury, to supplement my kitten ranged condi output.) you get more burns…. this would be 5 burn stacks every time I pop into Glint. But as it stands its 2 every time I explode my Ventari’s tablet. Why again can “corruption” only buff mallyx?

So now fractals are impossible to you because you can’t apply condis at range… Well did you ever notice that mallyx’s skills have 600 range? Is it alot? No, but it is range. Also, you can still bring a hammer and autoattack the thing. Sure it isn’t applying conditions, but it isn’t like you’re standing there because you can’t do anything.

No, (sigh) fractals are not impossible… by this point in your argument, it is you who needs to calm down. And yes… Mallyx’s skills do have 600 range… awesome, and oh, yeah, energy cost… hit um a few times, get back out. However… Mallyx + Hammer, pales in comparison to Mallyx + Mace/Axe. Thaumanova boss, Dredge boss, burning oil in ascalon… range is needed. I shouldn’t have to sacrifice my DPS to deal with these things, or any others I didn’t immediately think of.

I think I have the answer. Scope. In the gaming industry scope means what is feasible to accomplish in the given amount of time. They are releasing ALOT of content with this expansion. Maybe they just don’t have the time to feasibly add a ranged condi weapon into the game because it would take too long. It’s not as simple as copying some Shortbow skills from one profession into another. Alot of skills will need to have custom animations to fit the revenant which is alot of work.

In “corruption” there is a trait [Venom Enhancement] which buffs poison duration by 50%. the ENTIRE CLASS has 1 poison… as the third auto attack on a melee attack. Meaning that you will rarely land it against moving targets = mostly useless trait.

They can fix this, with traits, with 2 fixes… that they can do in… (I’m willing to wager) about 20 min.

[Rampant Vex] currently does 33% chance to torment on crit. Swap this for “25% chance on hit”

[Venom Enhancement] currently does 50% poison duration. Swap this for, [Venomous Impact] “hammer skills have a 25% chance on hit to poison, poison lasts 30% longer”
(Note how this does not adjust the cooldown of hammer skills? Meaning that you don’t need it for any non- condi hammer builds?)

THERE FIXED!

To wrap this all up. Let me show you how this could be careful planning:
-snip-

Ok. Yes. Your right… it could be. BUT I’m willing to bet its a game designer who loves his brainchild to much to let go of the legend=weapon=trait line (theme)… but he’ll have to anyways, once the bosses put him on something else, and a patch comes along in 6 months. OR He (or she, idk) could do it now… and make all of us condi lovers happy.

That’s 3 elite specialization weapons that they can make. Just because I can’t support from range with a weapon doesn’t mean I can’t support at all.

Yup… New elite’s don’t have to fill a missing niche’… they just have to add missing flavor… or create new flavor

But… zerk’s damage never falls off. Why the imbalance?

I run carrion herald, and I use hammer as the offset to my mace/axe. Since the extra power is there, it actually makes the hammer slightly useful when hiting a running target or interrupting something with the drop the hammer.

Is it ideal? God no. Is it workable? Yes.

It didn’t do bad DPS. It did selfish DPS.
Hahaha that’s really funny. I like that.

I guess I think you have a point, but at the same time it will get fixed. I like to think that ANet will not only fix the issue you are having with the class, but give you another legend to add to your condi build. Crummy that it won’t be in the base class, but given everything the devs have to work on for the expansion I would imagine that this decision was made early on.

Tritone.1395 – “Elite Specializations. The magical fix for everything in the game!!!” raindows

I do hope it gets fixed. …but having a long thread of folks agreeing is the first step to getting the designer’s to notice before the 23rd

I hope for a Pistol MH as a condi weapon or a Rifle. I think a 2h condi weapon would really be cool bit Pistol would be awesome too! Wit throwing dagger i can be fine but prefere a pistol/rifle cause they’re rare.

Condi rifle confirmed… by me.

EDIT: I’m gonna start designing skills so Anet can just do it already.

Skill 1 – Shoot a burst of three projectiles that explode on enemy contact applying torment to all enemies within radius for each projectile.

Skill 2 – Dash forwards then shoot several projectiles to all enemies within radius applying confusion for each projectile.

Skill 3 – After a 1 second channel, shoot a large piercing beam that sets all enemies hit on fire.

Skill 4 – Shoot a projectile while dashing backwards through the mist pulling and crippling your target.

Skill 5 – Shoot a projectile to target location pulling all enemies withing radius towards the center applying vulnerability.

that idea for rifle sounds bloody awesome…. and there are no condi rifles anywhere in the game.

DING DING DING!!!!

and Hammergaurd takes the prize!

I totally would drop playing all the other professions if Hammerguard’s rifle idea came into reality. Alas…I think they arn’t going to add a condi ranged weapon at this point…and going to wait for the next batch of elite specs. (Ritualist themed I hope for revenant). A lot of people want a ranged dagger I’ve read, but I’m the opposite. Would seem a bit odd/comical to role into battle with a dagger and shield or axe offhand lol. Pistol mainhand would be great, since no heavy class has it yet for a mainhand or a offhand. Shortbow would also be ok; same boat as pistol. Scepter…I hesitate to encourage…just yet. (Reserved for ritualist elite spec?! )

On a side note, the underwater weapon for Rev seems like the best weapon ever created. It has the perfect balance for condi/power specs…almost wish land weapons had this feature. I give it an A+!

Hammerguard.9834:

Condi rifle confirmed… by me.

Personally I’d prefer a main hand condi ranged weapon for Revenant, but the rifle idea would work too. On the first BWE I tried a power Revenant and on this last BWE I tried a condi Revenant. The condi Revenant with Mace/Axe was a lot of fun to play, but like others have mentioned when I needed to switch temporarily to a ranged weapon (Hammer) things weren’t quite as fun anymore. The Hammer is good, don’t get me wrong, but in a condi build I felt like I was just biding my time until I could get back to melee and Mace/Axe again. If I would’ve had a different condi ranged weapon (I’d prefer pistol), especially one that had access to Torment to complement what Mace/Axe was already doing, that would be great fun.

you CANT! go corruption without Demonix Defiance