Guild Wars 2

And simply do the balance right as it was supposed to be. Increase energy cost instead of slapping cd on everything. 5sec not a big deal huh? Nobody thought that it is also affected by chill, interrupts and still goes on cd if it fail to teleport? And that cast animation..whats the point of it with slapped cd on it? Can we also get it as ground targeted ability now?

Also. I demand nerf to infiltrators arrow in a form of 5cd. That thing is far more broken than our teleport with casttime which require a target

haha and they said that one powers of the revenants is to walk “through” the mists… well… now every 5 seconds…

Yea i agree. Part of rev’s fun just died. FeelsBadMan.

PS. My same exact thoughts on thief’s abilities. Like, put cd on thief’s ports etc. it’s gonna be like, wait what?

Admit that it was a little op… You was capable of teleport to 2400 range in two seconds and having 30 energy at the end…. Need a little cd to me.

gannondorf.7628:

Admit that it was a little op… You was capable of teleport to 2400 range in two seconds and having 30 energy at the end…. Need a little cd to me.

then make the nerf only apply when targeting a player, this is a horrible change for PvEers for literally no reason.

The most fun I had on my Revenant was Phasing towards mobs that were 2-3k range away and catching up to them in 3-4 phases, made map covering soooooo much easier… Kinda gone off it a little now, levelling up the Reaper… Reaper MM looks fun for soloing

Add 5 sec cooldown on 5th shortbow skill from thief pls, reduce 1sec on healing warrior stance pls, lets see if that like everybody

I don’t see the point of having an energy resource as a balancing point if they’re just going to slap small cool downs on everything.

The least they could have done is make it a 30 energy cost in PvP only and the skill would be in a perfect place in my opinion.

It basically penalizes any thought process about how to approach a fight and puts even more pressure on switching legends on CD.

Now it penalizes for having 50+ energy for these situations where you want to have skills ready to use and not find yourself starving for it.

This is dumb. Makes the energy mechanic even more of an illusion. If i had 100 energyh I could Phase + Riposting + Phase back. Now I phase, riposting and then stand like an idiot for 5 sec, run to enemy, switch to ranged weapoins because stupid CD pena;izes my forward thinking (and thus gathering more energy).

Rev’s do not have much mobility outside Shiro so what do they do ? Nerf shiro because rev cannot have mobility! Preposterous!

Calcifire.1864:

gannondorf.7628:

Admit that it was a little op… You was capable of teleport to 2400 range in two seconds and having 30 energy at the end…. Need a little cd to me.

then make the nerf only apply when targeting a player, this is a horrible change for PvEers for literally no reason.

I just roamed with my Rev in the jungle for the first time with a zerg, and it still works extremely well even with 5 CD, able to hit foes way ahead of anyone and spam hammer auto attack to tag more.

I’d imagine pre-nerf this skill basically is like instant 3600 distance tagging everything :P

Shiro useless now…
The fun was from spamming phase traversal on multiple target and having at least one mobility skill for long distance.
That’s one more PvP nerf killing PvE player.

At least put the 5s CD only in PvP or when targetting another player, we all know you can do that (I mean technically).

MrHarses.6801:

Shiro useless now…
The fun was from spamming phase traversal on multiple target and having at least one mobility skill for long distance.
That’s one more PvP nerf killing PvE player.

At least put the 5s CD only in PvP or when targetting another player, we all know you can do that (I mean technically).

Shiro is far from useless, and we only notice that cd a little once energy starts dropping

Gj at removing one of the best fun factors on Rev. Please, remove that cd and, if you must, just increase energy cost to 30 or 35. Everyone should be satisfied then.

nacario.9417:

MrHarses.6801:

Shiro useless now…
The fun was from spamming phase traversal on multiple target and having at least one mobility skill for long distance.
That’s one more PvP nerf killing PvE player.

At least put the 5s CD only in PvP or when targetting another player, we all know you can do that (I mean technically).

Shiro is far from useless, and we only notice that cd a little once energy starts dropping

By saying Shiro is useless I mean that if it cannot give me mobility I better take another legend as Shiro’s others skills are not that interresting to me…

gannondorf.7628:

Admit that it was a little op… You was capable of teleport to 2400 range in two seconds and having 30 energy at the end…. Need a little cd to me.

Little op? It sorely main reason why i would pick up Shiro. To make sure nobody will run away and kite me. You competely missing the whole picture here. Thief has many ways to gain mobility depending on what they run;

shortbow 5 – shadowstep 900 range
steal – 1200 range, require target
sword 2 – SPAMABLE 1200 range teleport with return ability, partially require range
shadowshot – spamable 900 range shadowstep, requires hit
heartseeker – you may laugh but it cover quite a bit of distance when spammed
staff 5- another spamable 600range leap
shadowstep – 1200 range teleport with ability to return back
Infiltrators signet – 900 range shadowstep

On top of that stealth so prevent you from chasing. Tons of way to have mobility. And then we have revenant..

Axe 4 – 900 range shadowstep, require to hit
phase traversal
…? That is? Do we have any other way to gain mobility?

Tell me. Whats the point of energy again? Well give you freedom in ability to use your utility skills without cd, all balanced around energy management.. Oh but you still have to manage cd’s and be a sitting duck. We like to double punish people, so why not.

Lets slap cd on everything, starting from 10cd on riposting shadows. Instead of balancing around energy, all we gains is slapped cd. The “balance” is real.

Shiro was all about mobility, something other legends simply do not provide. This in turn will hurt entire class.

Killyox.3950:

Shiro was all about mobility, something other legends simply do not provide. This in turn will hurt entire class.

What already hurts is condis

Burtnik.5218:

gannondorf.7628:

Admit that it was a little op… You was capable of teleport to 2400 range in two seconds and having 30 energy at the end…. Need a little cd to me.

Little op? It sorely main reason why i would pick up Shiro. To make sure nobody will run away and kite me. You competely missing the whole picture here. Thief has many ways to gain mobility depending on what they run;

shortbow 5 – shadowstep 900 range
steal – 1200 range, require target
sword 2 – SPAMABLE 1200 range teleport with return ability, partially require range
shadowshot – spamable 900 range shadowstep, requires hit
heartseeker – you may laugh but it cover quite a bit of distance when spammed
staff 5- another spamable 600range leap
shadowstep – 1200 range teleport with ability to return back
Infiltrators signet – 900 range shadowstep

On top of that stealth so prevent you from chasing. Tons of way to have mobility. And then we have revenant..

Axe 4 – 900 range shadowstep, require to hit
phase traversal
…? That is? Do we have any other way to gain mobility?

Tell me. Whats the point of energy again? Well give you freedom in ability to use your utility skills without cd, all balanced around energy management.. Oh but you still have to manage cd’s and be a sitting duck. We like to double punish people, so why not.

Lets slap cd on everything, starting from 10cd on riposting shadows. Instead of balancing around energy, all we gains is slapped cd. The “balance” is real.

Thief sword 2 is 600 range (does have 1200 return though). I do miss hitting mobs left and right as I traversed maps. sigh.

nacario.9417:

Killyox.3950:

Shiro was all about mobility, something other legends simply do not provide. This in turn will hurt entire class.

What already hurts is condis

That is by design though. Shiro’s design was dmg and mobility. They just cut it in half at least.

Next we will see 5s CD on Riposting Shadows and 5s CD on Impossible Odds after turning it off and then 10s on Jade Winds… . At that point I will say kitten GW2 and not look back.

Oh and to the ppl who said 5cd is not a big deal.. Gl have fun vs power lock mesmers cripping your mobility to 0. Thats fine tho, right? Small cd, no big deal. Neither chill reducing cd by 66%. unless you..wait for it..waste 30 energy to clean it.

change sucks kitten .

nothing else to say.

gannondorf.7628:

Admit that it was a little op… You was capable of teleport to 2400 range in two seconds and having 30 energy at the end…. Need a little cd to me.

the cast time is 1 second, so it takes around 3 seconds to go the full 2400. And thieves can do 3900 in the same time, but in any direction rather than towards a specific target, assuming a target actually exists otherwise the revenant is stuck. The ability was dumb, this made it worse.

I really don’t get the reasoning for this though , especially since Anet did give us the majestic iteration we all got to love . Is it simply because it’s super fun and we shouldn’t have that ? You say PVP, but then why is it ok for a thief to be able to inflatrators signet, then steal to the target , with additional options of shadowsteping and SB5ing as well – giving them the possibility of anywhere between 2-4 consecutive shadowsteps; but it is not okay for Rev to have to 2(!) consecutive ones – seeing as PT is the only port we have ; before we could do 2 steps and like a second afterwards, a third – which is still less then thieves , and leaves us with no energy or -1legend, which was seemingly fair .. Reverse the Phase Traversal bull kitten ! This is horrible >.<

Yep, rev does not need cooldown.

Akamaru.7415:

gannondorf.7628:

Admit that it was a little op… You was capable of teleport to 2400 range in two seconds and having 30 energy at the end…. Need a little cd to me.

the cast time is 1 second, so it takes around 3 seconds to go the full 2400. And thieves can do 3900 in the same time, but in any direction rather than towards a specific target, assuming a target actually exists otherwise the revenant is stuck. The ability was dumb, this made it worse.

No it’s not it’s half second cast time, so basically you can 2400 range in one second. I have take 2 second for security.

Burtnik.5218:

Oh and to the ppl who said 5cd is not a big deal.. Gl have fun vs power lock mesmers cripping your mobility to 0. Thats fine tho, right? Small cd, no big deal. Neither chill reducing cd by 66%. unless you..wait for it..waste 30 energy to clean it.

and distracting daggers thieves which also add 10s when they interrupt

Burtnik.5218:

And simply do the balance right as it was supposed to be. Increase energy cost instead of slapping cd on everything. 5sec not a big deal huh? Nobody thought that it is also affected by chill, interrupts and still goes on cd if it fail to teleport? And that cast animation..whats the point of it with slapped cd on it? Can we also get it as ground targeted ability now?

/signed

PT was the most fun thing about Rev … traveling from target to target, being trully mobile … that 5s CD is absolutely not needed!

Rikkado.7321
That moment when you don’t use Shiro.

It’s going to take more than a 5 second kleen-ex to drop Shiro.

Killyox.3950
Shiro was all about mobility, something other legends simply do not provide. This in turn will hurt entire class.

Shiro is all about murder. Now we just have to take the bus to kill the person.

Seriously, this single change killed so much of the fun I was having in PvE content. A real shame.

I think increasing the energy to 30 , or putting a 3 sec CD is what is needed. But I have to agree, why don’t thieves get cds with their energy abilities?

Awww man i like phase reversal the few times i tested it in HOTM. But to be fair this looked to be super OP in wvw. Uncatchable and can disengage from a fight so easy., Can still do it, just now with kitten cd.

Bumbing it up as its really noticeable and hurting our mobility.

Are you guys high? Increase energy cost won’t do any better then 5 seconds CD, it will only hinder your combat ability
You don’t want your gap closer to be gated behind heavy energy cost since all your offensive and defensive skills also use it.
You won’t spam your gap closer anyway, just when you want to abuse/exploit it for fast traval or make fun of a running thief.
i would rather have the energy cost decrease in compensate for the CD, so i can have more energy whenever i gap close to either damage or if needed run away

lighter.2708:

Are you guys high? Increase energy cost won’t do any better then 5 seconds CD, it will only hinder your combat ability
You don’t want your gap closer to be gated behind heavy energy cost since all your offensive and defensive skills also use it.
You won’t spam your gap closer anyway, just when you want to abuse/exploit it for fast traval or make fun of a running thief.
i would rather have the energy cost decrease in compensate for the CD, so i can have more energy whenever i gap close to either damage or if needed run away

Sounds like l2 energy management, nothing else really.

Burtnik.5218:

lighter.2708:

Are you guys high? Increase energy cost won’t do any better then 5 seconds CD, it will only hinder your combat ability
You don’t want your gap closer to be gated behind heavy energy cost since all your offensive and defensive skills also use it.
You won’t spam your gap closer anyway, just when you want to abuse/exploit it for fast traval or make fun of a running thief.
i would rather have the energy cost decrease in compensate for the CD, so i can have more energy whenever i gap close to either damage or if needed run away

Sounds like l2 energy management, nothing else really.

nah, it sounds like a l2 CD management and clearly l2p, if you need to rely on spaming gap closer. ( you want to post illogical dumb stuff like that? yea, you get the same thing back)

there’s no energy management bs, if you increase PT energy to 30, whenever you use it, you naturally has 10 energy less, the more you use it the less energy you will have compare to before, which means you will take longer to use other skills, energy management won’t magically make appear all the energy lost…you are bond to have less energy for other skills in the same time frame, which eventually will hinder your combat ability
and why in the world do you want to spam your gap closer anyway…that’s just l2p issue unless you are chasing a running thief or exploiting for map travel

lighter.2708:

Burtnik.5218:

lighter.2708:

Are you guys high? Increase energy cost won’t do any better then 5 seconds CD, it will only hinder your combat ability
You don’t want your gap closer to be gated behind heavy energy cost since all your offensive and defensive skills also use it.
You won’t spam your gap closer anyway, just when you want to abuse/exploit it for fast traval or make fun of a running thief.
i would rather have the energy cost decrease in compensate for the CD, so i can have more energy whenever i gap close to either damage or if needed run away

Sounds like l2 energy management, nothing else really.

nah, it sounds like a l2 CD management and clearly l2p, if you need to rely on spaming gap closer. ( you want to post illogical dumb stuff like that? yea, you get the same thing back)

there’s no energy management bs, if you increase PT energy to 30, whenever you use it, you naturally has 10 energy less, the more you use it the less energy you will have compare to before, which means you will take longer to use other skills, energy management won’t magically make appear all the energy lost…you are bond to have less energy for other skills in the same time frame, which eventually will hinder your combat ability
and why in the world do you want to spam your gap closer anyway…that’s just l2p issue unless you are chasing a running thief or exploiting for map travel

Wrong
So much Wrong

lighter.2708:

Burtnik.5218:

lighter.2708:

Are you guys high? Increase energy cost won’t do any better then 5 seconds CD, it will only hinder your combat ability
You don’t want your gap closer to be gated behind heavy energy cost since all your offensive and defensive skills also use it.
You won’t spam your gap closer anyway, just when you want to abuse/exploit it for fast traval or make fun of a running thief.
i would rather have the energy cost decrease in compensate for the CD, so i can have more energy whenever i gap close to either damage or if needed run away

Sounds like l2 energy management, nothing else really.

nah, it sounds like a l2 CD management and clearly l2p, if you need to rely on spaming gap closer. ( you want to post illogical dumb stuff like that? yea, you get the same thing back)

there’s no energy management bs, if you increase PT energy to 30, whenever you use it, you naturally has 10 energy less, the more you use it the less energy you will have compare to before, which means you will take longer to use other skills, energy management won’t magically make appear all the energy lost…you are bond to have less energy for other skills in the same time frame, which eventually will hinder your combat ability
and why in the world do you want to spam your gap closer anyway…that’s just l2p issue unless you are chasing a running thief or exploiting for map travel

Ill put it simply. Energy increase wont hinder it as much as cd based which is affected by stuff i already mentioned. Also if your teleport fail now youre stuck with 5+cd as opposed to just losing energy and do it again. Cd prevents me from getting in combat faster as now i have to literally walk to get in combat due to cd. It also makes chasing much harder to do. And ye i do enjoyed chasing thiefs and would like continue to do so. If they failed they deserve to be hunted down.

If that cd has to stay, thief has to get cd’s as well on all mobility skills.

lighter.2708:

Are you guys high? Increase energy cost won’t do any better then 5 seconds CD, it will only hinder your combat ability
You don’t want your gap closer to be gated behind heavy energy cost since all your offensive and defensive skills also use it.
You won’t spam your gap closer anyway, just when you want to abuse/exploit it for fast traval or make fun of a running thief.
i would rather have the energy cost decrease in compensate for the CD, so i can have more energy whenever i gap close to either damage or if needed run away

Level up your energy management. If I expect to chase player X I may oscillate around 80-90 energy mark to be able to use PT 3 times if they upped its cost to 30. I cannot do this if it has 5s CD even if I have 100 energy. Same with other skills. It’s my CHOICE to use that energy on skills I want and be limited by this and not energy. If I use then 3 PTs i won;t have enough energy for elite/RShadows and other skills but that’s my decision to make. Cooldowns take away a lot from decision making.

That’s called energy management. Being prepared for something and having enough energy for possible counterplay. There’s none of it if they slap CDs on us.

And sorry but Rev was not meant to be CD & Energy management class. That basically makes energy useless as a mechanic and not needed to begin with if they resort to giving CDs.

Burtnik.5218:

If that cd has to stay, thief has to get cd’s as well on all mobility skills.

I agree. More even, on 3/4th of his weapon skills. Because why not? They can mess up Rev energy management just because so they might as well screw over thieves core class mechanic the same way they did it to us.

Also how many mobility skills rev does have and how many thief does have. There’s no comparison. Our only mobile Legend gets messed up.

I knew this was going to get nerfed. I just didn’t realize it would be so soon. I don’t know what you guys are thinking, but it did need a nerf of some kind and be careful what you ask for because you may just get it.

If warriors had a move that allowed them to spend adrenaline to gap close 3 or 4 times in a row because “energy management,” would you really be ok with that?

Please realize that if you lobby for the class to be all energy management and they give that to you, the penalties for poor choice of energy use are going to become harsher and harsher as the class gets tuned and you may regret it.

I get why people want to be able to use Phase Traversal as it was. It was a heck of a lot of fun. But most OP abilities are.

All that said, I think there could be some compromise that might work, but I don’t believe that removing the CD again and raising the energy cost by some absurd amount is a good idea.

My recommendation would be something like this:
- Halve the CD (make it 2 and a half seconds)
- Remove the unblockable attacks part
- Possibly remove the damage

This way, you won’t notice the CD a lot, but it’s still not spammable and it’s a little more in line with other teleports since it no longer gives you insta free hits through blocking.

Thoughts?

Labjax.2465:

Please realize that if you lobby for the class to be all energy management and they give that to you, the penalties for poor choice of energy use are going to become harsher and harsher as the class gets tuned and you may regret it.

I am perfectly fine with this. Would make skill difference between two rev players easier to spot. These are still decisions we make whether good or bad. CDs are bad because they take away that decision making entirely.

And again… take into account number of Rev gap closers vs other classes and the fact others can switch out their bad utilities while we are forced to have them whether we like them or not. Because of this inability to change utilities ANet should be extremely cautious with any nerfing here.

Pretty much every class has more gap closers than Rev (maybe except necro)

Jalis has none.
Ventari has none.
Herald has none.
Mallyx has questionable 600 Leap but we will count it as gap closer.
Shiro has Phase Traversal.
Axe 4

That’s it. That’s all we have. 3 Skills for the entirety of the class. Pretty much every other class can have more (maybe not necro :P)

Killyox.3950:

Labjax.2465:

Please realize that if you lobby for the class to be all energy management and they give that to you, the penalties for poor choice of energy use are going to become harsher and harsher as the class gets tuned and you may regret it.

I am perfectly fine with this. Would make skill difference between two rev players easier to spot. These are still decisions we make whether good or bad. CDs are bad because they take away that decision making entirely.

CD management is also a skill. It’s just an easier one to handle, usually. The only real difference between an energy-based class and a CD-based class is that the energy-based can spam the same abilities over and over until their energy is gone.

I agree with you that generally speaking, energy management requires more skill. In terms of you being fine with what you want… I believe you, but I’m not sure whether you’d believe you in 6 months time. A lot can change. Look at where the other energy-based class is at right now – thieves:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-feels-significantly-weaker

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/BUFF-thief-1

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/dont-buff-thief-nerf-the-others

That’s just from browsing a few recent pages. There was more before HoT.

Killyox.3950:

I am perfectly fine with this. Would make skill difference between two rev players easier to spot. These are still decisions we make whether good or bad. CDs are bad because they take away that decision making entirely.

And again… take into account number of Rev gap closers vs other classes and the fact others can switch out their bad utilities while we are forced to have them whether we like them or not. Because of this inability to change utilities ANet should be extremely cautious with any nerfing here.

Pretty much every class has more gap closers than Rev (maybe except necro)

Jalis has none.
Ventari has none.
Herald has none.
Mallyx has questionable 600 Leap but we will count it as gap closer.
Shiro has Phase Traversal.
Axe 4

That’s it. That’s all we have. 3 Skills for the entirety of the class. Pretty much every other class can have more (maybe not necro :P)

Don’t forget, we also have superspeed (albeit at an ongoing energy burn).

But I do see your point. I just don’t think raising the energy cost of Traversal is the answer.

Except Rev wasn’t meant to be a CD management class. It was meant to be energy management class. You don’t see thieves getting CDs on their Initiative skills.

I browse all profession forums Perfectly aware of thieves’ threads

Superspeed on IO is not what is considered gap closer. It’s not a leap/charge/teleport thing. It’s just a movement speed increase ability that comes at a very very high cost. It’s actually often better to quickly turn 180 and use riposting shadows + free dodge than use IO for quick movement boost.

Killyox.3950:

I am perfectly fine with this. Would make skill difference between two rev players easier to spot. These are still decisions we make whether good or bad. CDs are bad because they take away that decision making entirely.

CDs are good because they prevent spam of the same skill (see: thieves). Unless you, for some reason, think that thieves are a brilliantly designed profession.

Energy + CD is a much more solid base to design and balance for than having just either. In fact, one of the biggest reasons for why GW2’s combat is so spammy, is because it only relies in one or the other alone.

Will copy & paste from other thread

The purpose of Energy was exactly so that we could repeatedly use skill and thus would be unable to use other skills because of that. Do I use Skill X and Y or do I use skill X twice in row instead but can’t use skill Y until I regen some energy? That’s the purpose of energy.
Same like Thieves can spam their attacks until they run out of INI and they can’t use other things. That’s not complementing each other, that’s countering each other.

Properly played rev isn’t spammy because you don’t zero your energy. You keep enough of it to be able to respond to different situations. Mismanaging it will hurt you and that’s good.

Having CD and energy is like saying “here have this to manage your skills by energy but we don’t want you to atually do it so we will not allow you to do so”.

There should not be cooldowns on the skills.

Either remove energy or leave it alone. Soon all the Revenant abilities will have energy and cooldown costs and we will have a completely different class. Legends and energy are the class mechanic, change the way the skill works if it is too strong. Adding cooldowns to and energy based class is the lowest level of developer laziness imo. Fix it properly or not at all.

Guardians would sell their kidney to have Phase Traversal even with the CD. just saying.

Spartacus.3192:

Guardians would sell their kidney to have Phase Traversal even with the CD. just saying.

Guardians have better things unless they nerfed it.

Battle for Kylo Clock Tower point. Have team mate Call Target to someone on point and you can use Flashing Blade (10s) teleport from below the point to teleport up to that person without running around. Same with Judge’s Intervention. They also have a good Leap on GS.

They have their own unique toys.

PS

Guardians can explode all of their weapon, heal, utility and elite skills. Rev is limited by energy even for a healing skill. So apples to oranges. 5s PT on a guardian or any other class would be OP.

Killyox.3950:

Spartacus.3192:

Guardians would sell their kidney to have Phase Traversal even with the CD. just saying.

Guardians have better things unless they nerfed it.

Battle for Kylo Clock Tower point. Have team mate Call Target to someone on point and you can use Flashing Blade (10s) teleport from below the point to teleport up to that person without running around. Same with Judge’s Intervention. They also have a good Leap on GS.

They have their own unique toys.

PS

Guardians can explode all of their weapon, heal, utility and elite skills. Rev is limited by energy even for a healing skill. So apples to oranges. 5s PT on a guardian or any other class would be OP.

I mean for wvw (i play guard) and i would love the disengage or spammable catch up skill like phase traversal. Even 5 sec cd is way better than anything we could dream of doing in a WvW setting. There are so many transient mobs around in WvW that you can traverse maps at light speed or disenage from a losing fight by targeting a mob and teleporting to it with PT. Our judges intervention has a 36 sec cd and flashing blade is 10 sec and only moves 600 range.

Dont get me wrong i dont like the change since i love that mobility and i plan on levelling my Rev once i get my last skill unlocked on my Dragonhunter. (only 2 more hero challenges to do).