Guild Wars 2

So first of all I was super excited for getting a condi ranged weapon. The Kalla skills already looked pretty basic and lame, so I was expecting Shortbow skills to be high condi DPS, and mobility.

Renegade is lacking all.

- There is not a single “chilled” effect on shortbow, missing synergy with other condi traits

- Autoattack is terribly low dps

- skill 2 feels useless

- skill 3 is actually high dps, but extremly hard to land all 7 arrows on a single target

- skill 4 is actually quite good

- skill 5 has extremly low damage for a skill with 20 energy and 10 s cd

- Shortbow all in one: Its like afk autohitting with a low dps ranger LB. I had high hopes for Shortbow to be a movement heavy weapon, but instead its immobile and low dps. You have to choose one option. If you want to keep the skill animations and function as they are, add more damage and add some chilled effects to synergise with the corruption traitline

- Citadel Bombardement: WAY too much energy! And low damage for those 40 energy

- The alacrity and Favor renewal? Who came up with this, its ABSOLUTLY useless.

- All Kalla skills feel like wells which are doing also low damage and are pretty immobile.
Possible Solution: Make the animated Charrs (as theyre attackable anyway) to be spawned like mesmer illusions: You hit the skill, the Charr spawns as AI. The skill then turns into a special skill dedicated to the spawned Charr. Like a “charge at your target” whatever.

EDIT: what the others found too, which I forgot:

- The spawned Charrs have a low HP pool, absolutly useless in WvW, as a single player can take it down in 2 sec

- The spawned Charrs are being able to be CC’ed

- The Kalla Utilities also do low damage, the heal is ridiculous (its almost like regen, and nothing else)

- The Kalla Utilities dont cleanse, Revenants weakness

- The traitline is almost only about Kallas Favor, which is absolutly useless.

TLDR: Traits are a joke, Utilities are for Roleplay-Furries only, Shortbow is interesting though extremly underpowered with no mobility. My guess is, that Kalla WONT be used as legend, only the possibility to use shortbow will probably be used (speaking of spvp and wvw). Then you lack the usage of the Favor-only-traits.

Am I the only one thinking that way?

no, I agree 100%, the heal is also very bad imo

As mentioned above
Weapon:
SB 2 for some reason misses for no particular reason (even on flat ground).
SB 3 is really niche to do it’s full potential
SB 4 and 5 are decent

Healing :
seriously, once again. Reve heal is truly a joke. So you give warrior an 11k heal and 2 xpacs later you still can’t give reve a decent heal that does at least 5k minimum? We already lack cleanse unless we go for mallyx/ventari, at least give us a proper heal

Utility:
Most are pointless, especially in wvw combat situation. No enemy is stupid enough to stand in your 360 radius. Even your own ally wouldn’t stand in the buffs most of the time. Increase the radius for god sake.

I was so looking forward to this and even crafted a chuka for this, but seriously compared to other specs like holosmith,mirage and weaver, renegade really felt like getting the super short end of the stick.

I fully agree with this.

Aury.1367:

- There is not a single "chilled" effect on shortbow, missing synergy with other condi traits

*looks at Icerazor’s Ire*

hmm, the guy is a caster who is called Icerazor, and he clearly shoots bolts of ice at the enemy

yet he cripples and causes vulnerability, the two most useless conditions due to their ineffectiveness and the fact that vuln is one of the most common conditions to just passively apply.

No sign of chill on the ice themed guy who specialises in debilitation :/

Calcifire.1864:

Aury.1367:

- There is not a single “chilled” effect on shortbow, missing synergy with other condi traits

looks at Icerazor’s Ire

hmm, the guy is a caster who is called Icerazor, and he clearly shoots bolts of ice at the enemy

yet he cripples and causes vulnerability, the two most useless conditions due to their ineffectiveness and the fact that vuln is one of the most common conditions to just passively apply.

No sign of chill on the ice themed guy who specialises in debilitation :/

I saw this too, even the icon looks like its chill themed.

I laughed out loud when I dropped my Healing well and it immediately got feared in WvW and didn’t heal/reduced condis.

Theme > Functionality run amok.

Calcifire.1864:

Aury.1367:

- There is not a single “chilled” effect on shortbow, missing synergy with other condi traits

looks at Icerazor’s Ire

hmm, the guy is a caster who is called Icerazor, and he clearly shoots bolts of ice at the enemy

yet he cripples and causes vulnerability, the two most useless conditions due to their ineffectiveness and the fact that vuln is one of the most common conditions to just passively apply.

No sign of chill on the ice themed guy who specialises in debilitation :/

I laughed when i counted how much vuln stack he does. Its 40. When limit is 25.

actually the thing that dissapoints me the most are the new f3 skills. The skills are fitting for kalla and kind improve on the playstyle with her as a legend, but there is again no synergy between new class mechanic and legends.
I have to wait another expac to get a E-spec that does this.

Renegade is just a visually beautiful class especially with bombardment but the skills are underwhelming. No wonder they couldn’t even talk more about the mechanic during the live streams.

Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.

The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made

I was like, “Renegade + Shiro and Devestation and Retribution?” THATS A STUPID DEFAULT. They I played a game as Mallyx/Renegade with Corruption/Invo and was like, "Oh, I see you’re just permanent immobilized and dead the entire time and do next to no damage even if you just unload everything from ranged.

Doesn’t help that every game is 3-4 war/thiefs enjoying their new specs on the other team, but still.

its so bad, guess im gonna keep my power glint

Even if they keep it all Pve so be it. But at least they should increase the bleed duration and add some chill effects somewhere. I mean one UA with mallyx does around 20 torment and I can spam it! Make the icerazor do chilled instead! Seriously! And if thats too op lower the amount of hits.. easy fix.

With runes mace is dishing out 10+ seconds of torment per hit.. Ok don’t make it better then mace but really? With bleed runes on shortbow im dealing maybe half the dps that I do with mace….. Really?

I can honestly only see it as a group buff for bleeds… maybe… and some lifesteal…. that’t it for pve… sad..

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.

The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made

It’s just bad. There is no such thing as a “pve only” spec.

lmaogg.7325:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.

The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made

It’s just bad. There is no such thing as a “pve only” spec.

Also, it seems like it’ll suck for PvE too.
Not enough support to justify bringing such lackluster damage.

narcx.3570:

Also, it seems like it’ll suck for PvE too.
Not enough support to justify bringing such lackluster damage.

That’s why it’s just plain underwhelming.

I haven’t got home from work yet to test but it seems that the consensus is that Anet has severely undertuned the Renegade in comparison with the other elites. There is a bit of time till the expac drops, so hopefully they will fix it ASAP. Sadly though this situation seems to confirm the public perception that Revenant is now and has always been a 2nd fiddle afterthought compared to the base gw2 classes.

narcx.3570:

lmaogg.7325:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.

The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made

It’s just bad. There is no such thing as a “pve only” spec.

Also, it seems like it’ll suck for PvE too.
Not enough support to justify bringing such lackluster damage.

The damage IS very good, but just not usuable outside of PvE. And same way as scrapper and spellbreaker are pvp especs, renegade is a pve one

narcx.3570:

lmaogg.7325:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.

The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made

It’s just bad. There is no such thing as a “pve only” spec.

Also, it seems like it’ll suck for PvE too.
Not enough support to justify bringing such lackluster damage.

I dunno man.

Short Bow is automatically out. It’s just a terrible, terrible weapon with novel effects maybe okay for open world PvE where being at 900 is preferable to being melee.

However trait wise, with 20% condition damage and 300 ferocity from 10 stacks of Kalla’s fervor is much higher than anything from Inovcation or Herald gets I’d wager. That, combined with additional bleed damage (trait) which would impact swapping with Geomancy sigils seems like a better over all condition setup with Deva/Corruption/Kalla. That setup also gives you access to Citadel Orders but tbh I don’t think they’re worth their energy cost in most cases.

The legend itself (Utilities) aren’t too shabby either. I could easily see a rotation where instead of Jalis and using Hammers you’d swap and use Razor Claw’s Revenge which for the next 10 seconds you’ll add 3 seconds of bleeding x5 provided 5 targets are in range of the well. The condition damage and source is attributed to you so that’s not bad at all and synergizes with her Bleed traits. After that there’s Soulcleave’s Summit which is a straight up huge chunk of added damage with no ICD currently. This will probably be nerfed but adding damage like that for 5 people seems super strong. Until meters come out tho we’ll not be able to realistically see how much damage add these are, and even then meters won’t accurately represent others hitting to offset their damage loss during casting (that wonderful 3/4th timer everywhere).

So for PvE….pretty solid. PvP and WvW on the other hand, complete trash. The base Revenant lacks the base tools needed to make it a viable build.

Kodiak.3281:

I dunno man.

Short Bow is automatically out. It’s just a terrible, terrible weapon with novel effects maybe okay for open world PvE where being at 900 is preferable to being melee.

However trait wise, with 20% condition damage and 300 ferocity from 10 stacks of Kalla’s fervor is much higher than anything from Inovcation or Herald gets I’d wager. That, combined with additional bleed damage (trait) which would impact swapping with Geomancy sigils seems like a better over all condition setup with Deva/Corruption/Kalla. That setup also gives you access to Citadel Orders but tbh I don’t think they’re worth their energy cost in most cases.

The legend itself (Utilities) aren’t too shabby either. I could easily see a rotation where instead of Jalis and using Hammers you’d swap and use Razor Claw’s Revenge which for the next 10 seconds you’ll add 3 seconds of bleeding x5 provided 5 targets are in range of the well. The condition damage and source is attributed to you so that’s not bad at all and synergizes with her Bleed traits. After that there’s Soulcleave’s Summit which is a straight up huge chunk of added damage with no ICD currently. This will probably be nerfed but adding damage like that for 5 people seems super strong. Until meters come out tho we’ll not be able to realistically see how much damage add these are, and even then meters won’t accurately represent others hitting to offset their damage loss during casting (that wonderful 3/4th timer everywhere).

So for PvE….pretty solid. PvP and WvW on the other hand, complete trash. The base Revenant lacks the base tools needed to make it a viable build.

I personally enjoy the shortbow alot, since reve lacks a range condi weapon as well, so this fills up that hole.
But what triggers me alot is the SB 4. If you move slightly pass your target location, it gets cancelled. like cmon it’s already mid casting animation and it cancels out so easily. And SB2 just feels weird due to how the projectile works, sometimes it just outright hits nothing.
But end of the day, the main issue with renegade is the utilities and heal imo.

I agree with 2nd comment made on this forum for the love of god fix this pls!

Yeah everything just feels awkward and not flowing well, the cast time, the aftercasts, the cancelling, the LoS errors… sometimes when using skills like SB 2 it straight up doesn’t fire. Something feels really off and I don’t know what it is

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.

The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made

Implying the summons, the healing and the energy cost will be better in pve.
They’re probably going to be even worse.
This elite spec feels borderline unusable at the moment.

- Stun break on the heal makes 0 sense. You basically give up the break if you heal and vice versa.
- No condi cleanse again, implying you will need Jalis in pve if you don’t want 3 hours of cripple and be unable to even mount because you’re not out of combat.
- Basically 2 skills and then legend swap to use F3 with the second legend.
- Maybe, MAYBE, good condition damage on big stationary targets but not enough party support compared to other classes.
- Summons are still slow and killable even in pve. They even removed them from Guardian for the same reason and we have them now on an elite spec, lol.

Let’s just hope they don’t need Herald again to make Renegade appealing

Vennyhedgie.5369:

narcx.3570:

lmaogg.7325:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.

The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made

It’s just bad. There is no such thing as a “pve only” spec.

Also, it seems like it’ll suck for PvE too.
Not enough support to justify bringing such lackluster damage.

The damage IS very good, but just not usuable outside of PvE. And same way as scrapper and spellbreaker are pvp especs, renegade is a pve one

Agreed. The elite bonus damage has no ICD and works on multi-hit skills.
The whole spec is all about dps / breakbar and no self protection.

That’s why people say it’s a pure pve spec.

Spellbreaker has terrible dps, but it has utility to work in pvp, so it’s a pvp sec.

Calcifire.1864:

Aury.1367:

- There is not a single “chilled” effect on shortbow, missing synergy with other condi traits

looks at Icerazor’s Ire

hmm, the guy is a caster who is called Icerazor, and he clearly shoots bolts of ice at the enemy

yet he cripples and causes vulnerability, the two most useless conditions due to their ineffectiveness and the fact that vuln is one of the most common conditions to just passively apply.

No sign of chill on the ice themed guy who specialises in debilitation :/

I was talking about shortbow not the utilities But yes its ridiculous, its even named Icerazor. It feels so terrible after those 2 years of constant nerfs and missing bugfixes.
Sword3 still bugged, Sword2 still bugged. Anet doesnt care.

I don’t want to play ranger. Why did they make this ranger light. No pet no way to get away from attacker. Ranged is only good for the first shot maybe second then they are on you. With no heal it’s Insta death. Poorly planned.

The theme is done amazingly, I can’t really find anything to complain about there. Gameplay on the otherhand is much easier to pick apart. You have some good aoe damage, that’s just about it.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

narcx.3570:

lmaogg.7325:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.

The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made

It’s just bad. There is no such thing as a “pve only” spec.

Also, it seems like it’ll suck for PvE too.
Not enough support to justify bringing such lackluster damage.

The damage IS very good, but just not usuable outside of PvE. And same way as scrapper and spellbreaker are pvp especs, renegade is a pve one

It’s not even close to what the other elite specs can do to a golem right now.

Aomine.5012:

The elite bonus damage has no ICD and works on multi-hit skills.

Oh, that’s why the whole spec have so low damage.

Why are so many people happy with sb 3 & 4 damage? Yes, sb 3 apply up to 7 stacks of torment, but they last for 3 sec! Compare it to mace 3 that apply 5 stack for 10(!) sec for half the cost in energy or axe 5 – 3 torment stacks for 8 sec on top of 3 confusion stacks and cc. And sb 4? 1 sec of burn each pulse for 15 energy opposed to mace 2 with 4 sec burn per pulse for 5 energy – it does same burn damage in all 4 pulses as mace 2 does in 1 pulse! I think they both are very lacking. Just multiply amount of stacks on duration and you will see where low damage is coming from. Sb 5 is fine i guess because it is cc, but it is same damage as sb4 in total again. All that leaves 2 attacks 1 of which is auto.

narcx.3570:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

narcx.3570:

lmaogg.7325:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.

The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made

It’s just bad. There is no such thing as a “pve only” spec.

Also, it seems like it’ll suck for PvE too.
Not enough support to justify bringing such lackluster damage.

The damage IS very good, but just not usuable outside of PvE. And same way as scrapper and spellbreaker are pvp especs, renegade is a pve one

It’s not even close to what the other elite specs can do to a golem right now.

You are definitely playing it wrong then, the damage from spirits is insane. Specially the lifesteal.

Selfaron.4273:

Why are so many people happy with sb 3 & 4 damage? Yes, sb 3 apply up to 7 stacks of torment, but they last for 3 sec! Compare it to mace 3 that apply 5 stack for 10(!) sec for half the cost in energy or axe 5 – 3 torment stacks for 8 sec on top of 3 confusion stacks and cc. And sb 4? 1 sec of burn each pulse for 15 energy opposed to mace 2 with 4 sec burn per pulse for 5 energy – it does same burn damage in all 4 pulses as mace 2 does in 1 pulse! I think they both are very lacking. Just multiply amount of stacks on duration and you will see where low damage is coming from. Sb 5 is fine i guess because it is cc, but it is same damage as sb4 in total again. All that leaves 2 attacks 1 of which is auto.

Ye, but directly comparing the energy input an the damage output, shortbow is seriously underpowered. Skill 3 is extremly diffifcult to be used AS a nuke in a single target, an is useless against more.

So i tested renegade again with power build, the summons don’t even scale with our power.. because they are summons? Just like gyros.
I don’t even get why there are people saying it’s good in pve?

The only real cool thing about is sb is 2 actually doesn’t need you to face the target. But the projectiles are still disappearing at times.

lmaogg.7325:

So i tested renegade again with power build, the summons don’t even scale with our power.. because they are summons? Just like gyros.
I don’t even get why there are people saying it’s good in pve?

I think people are saying that because elite and bleed buff spirit currently doesn’t have internal cd, but it’s a bug and they will fix it (tooltip clearly states they are supposed to have it).

Selfaron.4273:

I think people are saying that because elite and bleed buff spirit currently doesn’t have internal cd, but it’s a bug and they will fix it (tooltip clearly states they are supposed to have it).

still feels lackluster even with the bug tbh. If the bleed buff affects the other 2 of our “damaging” summons then it will be a different story. In the first place, why can’t our summons buff 1 another, isn’t the theme “warband”

lmaogg.7325:

Selfaron.4273:

I think people are saying that because elite and bleed buff spirit currently doesn’t have internal cd, but it’s a bug and they will fix it (tooltip clearly states they are supposed to have it).

still feels lackluster even with the bug tbh. If the bleed buff affects the other 2 of our “damaging” summons then it will be a different story. In the first place, why can’t our summons buff 1 another, isn’t the theme “warband”

With the energy cost you can’t summon more than 2 anyway.

Traited SB auto is a tagging machine though

I played a bit of Renegade as well, it definitely needs to have a lot of work or at least a focus somewhere.

Two areas it could use work, both related to PvE (I’ve not tried a PvP aspect yet):

- If you want a pure DPS, Renegade absolutely needs more Chill to synergize with Mallyx. I wonder if there was some Renegade utility like an ‘Icerazor’ or something that could apply chill instead of cripple….however by doing this WITHOUT applying a ICD to Abyssal Chill we would see dozens of stacks of Torment being applied. I recommend ICD 2 seconds for balance, unless some of you guys want to see how 60 stacks of Torment on a single target works? :P

- Support Condition was what I was really aiming for. If you want to deal with Alacrity from Chronos I had assumed between Kalla and Ventari you could cover the gaps, however Ventari on its own would sap your energy with the upkeep and I presumed that you would only switch to regain your energy in Kalla and go back to Renegade Stance. However Orders from Above is WAY too low. Even if I take the trait the cooldown doesn’t quite give me 100% upkeep, the duration needs above a 2 second buff baseline and on the Alacrity count to just barely allow for 100%, requiring the Alacrity Condition Renegade to Legend Swap for Alacrity upkeep while at the same time doing more damage than Chrono in the second group.

These are my thoughts, there are other outstanding issues but I think these are the right direction.

There’s clearly a bug with our critical chance traits in Invocation and Renegade, as I see it briefly hit 100% before it drops to 70%, then out of combat it will for a while dip down to 30% before it goes back up to 60% — it’s all over the place.

Energy cost for a lot of the skills feels a bit steep, but overall I find them to be fairly alright. I do wish Razorclaw would actually affect the other summons without he player needing to stand in the field though, as from what I’ve tested now, the bleed does not get applied by the other guys if you’re not within the range of Razorclaw. It’d also be nice if Darkrazor would eat projectiles so it could be used for other purposes than dazing. It’s a semi-great stomp tool though, as it will interrupt most attacks a downed player can do when dropped on top of them.

Utility skills also needs a serious bug fix; it will say there’s no valid path to target, even if it’s on perfectly flat ground. That is game breaking bad, as you can’t use it on tower walls in WvW, on bridges anywhere, and so on forth. It doesn’t really help that they are killable. It’s Mesmer all over again for WvW. The summons will get destroyed before they can do anything due to the zerg.

The heal is quite honestly just terrible, the initial heal is weak, and the regenerative effect is basically stationary Regen that can be killed. And why on earth would they put a stun break on the freaking heal! Waste the heal at high health to break CC (or swap legends if you use the Invocation line)?

Liking the F2-F4 skills, though I think Bombardment could do with a energy cost reduction. Maybe bring it down to 35, or even 30. It’s hard to use it in any reasonable fashion, and it’s an amazing skill that takes on the effect of ANY legendary weapon wielded in the main hand. Throwing a barrage of Bolts is kinda funny. Shooting rainbows of death with Bifrost is just so stupid it’s brilliant. Juggernaut is almost lewd. I’d like to use this skill more, but it costs too much.

Sevenshot bugs out often, seems to be terrain related, as per usual, and will sometimes only fire 2-3 arrows even on flat surfaces with the remaining ones disappearing in the mists. Other than that I enjoy the Bow skills somewhat more now that I’ve played a bit with the spec.

Overall, I’m quite certain this will push the Condi Revenant up on the DPS ladder, with my Bleeds now reaching 10k in Structured without buffs and ideal equipment. It’ll be interesting to see how far this will push us once we get to toy around with it in PvE.