Renegade is going to be terrible

Renegade is going to be terrible

in Revenant

Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

you know there is a simple fix to SB . make it hybrid dmg. dont change the condi dmg rather buff the direct dmg of it to get hybrid dmg so rev can attack from range and be bit more effective.

nevertheless reduce nrg on utilities and f skills

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

Nothing in our condi kit synergies with kiting your opponent, or ranged combat play, and if all you need are condi-pokes

I will agree to disagree. Yes we technically dont have synergy but.. we actually do. Being ranged will force enemies to stay in UA if they try to pressure us. Put down a “pizza” and run in circles on it, melee enemy will have to back off or waste cleanses to survive cus facetanking UA for it duration is not wise at all.

Also torment is all about kiting actually. If anything torment doesnt make much sense to be placed on melee autos.

I always looked at VH for example at a sort of defensive move to force enemies to back down while you use hammer. Sadly hammer is too weak for it in current state to make it work.

Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.

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Posted by: ScottBroChill.3254

ScottBroChill.3254

Nothing in our condi kit synergies with kiting your opponent, or ranged combat play, and if all you need are condi-pokes

I will agree to disagree. Yes we technically dont have synergy but.. we actually do. Being ranged will force enemies to stay in UA if they try to pressure us. Put down a “pizza” and run in circles on it, melee enemy will have to back off or waste cleanses to survive cus facetanking UA for it duration is not wise at all.

Also torment is all about kiting actually. If anything torment doesnt make much sense to be placed on melee autos.

I always looked at VH for example at a sort of defensive move to force enemies to back down while you use hammer. Sadly hammer is too weak for it in current state to make it work.

being ranged doesn’t force them to stay in a torment field. The shortbow also has no kiting skills besides one knockdown. We also got no new kiting utilities with kalla utilities. Actually you would most likely get more out of staying in mace/axe and using 2, 3, and 5 when kiting. Shortbow is about as useful as hammer when someone engages you in melee, except its a lot worse at range because it’s only 900 range. You could argue that its a ranged condi weapon, but it does such insignificant damage you can’t really use that as a justification.

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Posted by: Burtnik.5218

Burtnik.5218

Nothing in our condi kit synergies with kiting your opponent, or ranged combat play, and if all you need are condi-pokes

I will agree to disagree. Yes we technically dont have synergy but.. we actually do. Being ranged will force enemies to stay in UA if they try to pressure us. Put down a “pizza” and run in circles on it, melee enemy will have to back off or waste cleanses to survive cus facetanking UA for it duration is not wise at all.

Also torment is all about kiting actually. If anything torment doesnt make much sense to be placed on melee autos.

I always looked at VH for example at a sort of defensive move to force enemies to back down while you use hammer. Sadly hammer is too weak for it in current state to make it work.

being ranged doesn’t force them to stay in a torment field. The shortbow also has no kiting skills besides one knockdown. We also got no new kiting utilities with kalla utilities. Actually you would most likely get more out of staying in mace/axe and using 2, 3, and 5 when kiting. Shortbow is about as useful as hammer when someone engages you in melee, except its a lot worse at range because it’s only 900 range. You could argue that its a ranged condi weapon, but it does such insignificant damage you can’t really use that as a justification.

No but it provides you a breath space which atm you dont have with mace/axe. Also i talked about my rifle concept. Shortbow is.. idk what tbh. A sad joke.

Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.

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Posted by: narcx.3570

narcx.3570

Nothing in our condi kit synergies with kiting your opponent, or ranged combat play, and if all you need are condi-pokes

I will agree to disagree. Yes we technically dont have synergy but.. we actually do. Being ranged will force enemies to stay in UA if they try to pressure us. Put down a “pizza” and run in circles on it, melee enemy will have to back off or waste cleanses to survive cus facetanking UA for it duration is not wise at all.

Also torment is all about kiting actually. If anything torment doesnt make much sense to be placed on melee autos.

I always looked at VH for example at a sort of defensive move to force enemies to back down while you use hammer. Sadly hammer is too weak for it in current state to make it work.

being ranged doesn’t force them to stay in a torment field. The shortbow also has no kiting skills besides one knockdown. We also got no new kiting utilities with kalla utilities. Actually you would most likely get more out of staying in mace/axe and using 2, 3, and 5 when kiting. Shortbow is about as useful as hammer when someone engages you in melee, except its a lot worse at range because it’s only 900 range. You could argue that its a ranged condi weapon, but it does such insignificant damage you can’t really use that as a justification.

No but it provides you a breath space which atm you dont have with mace/axe. Also i talked about my rifle concept. Shortbow is.. idk what tbh. A sad joke.

Nothing the short bow does can provide more breathing room than just hitting them with a triple cast of Banish Enchantment, which was honestly already all the ranged condi poke we needed. If you happen to be stuck outside of Mallyx, you still have mace 2/3/axe 5 to range your opponent with, as well as sword 2 and 3 to keep kiting/mitigating until Mallyx comes back up.

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Posted by: Infusion.7149

Infusion.7149

Renegade utilities are almost poor versions of necro wells. The warband members can be killed & CCed, and aren’t mobile. This brings the downsides of turrets / pets / phantasms to the Renegade.

Citadel Bombardment needs a energy decrease, it’s a huge energy cost.

For shortbow, I think the last thing you want is for more ranged condi spam on a heavy class.

Renegade as a whole needs looking at, but shortbow needs to be looked at taking into account other classes’ lackluster ranged weapons.

Renegade summons probably need a breakbar at least.

Desolation (EU) → Yak’s Bend (US)
In your backline: Elementalist+Mesmer+Necromancer

(edited by Infusion.7149)

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Posted by: Joxer.6024

Joxer.6024

Renegade summons probably need a breakbar at least.

SB5…no? Seems like “best” option. But yea, the elite shouldn’t die cuz as someone mentioned its either on or off, upkeep/channelled…you get my point. So if it dies right away can you repop it or get energy back or…or…..so many or’s.

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Posted by: Buran.3796

Buran.3796

Nothing the short bow does can provide more breathing room than just hitting them with a triple cast of Banish Enchantment, which was honestly already all the ranged condi poke we needed. If you happen to be stuck outside of Mallyx, you still have mace 2/3/axe 5 to range your opponent with, as well as sword 2 and 3 to keep kiting/mitigating until Mallyx comes back up.

Mace #2 has only 480 range, Axe #4 only 900 and despite Axe #3 has a range of 1200 units this attack moves foward slower than unfolding a large carpet so is pretty much impossible to hit a target consistently or put any condi pressure with those tools if the foe is a longbow Ranger, Dragon Hunter, pistol Thief, Mesmer, Rifle/GS Warrior, etc.

But I agree in that the Renegade’s short bow doesn’t solve the problem, because the weapon lacks range, damage and useful skills.

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Posted by: narcx.3570

narcx.3570

Nothing the short bow does can provide more breathing room than just hitting them with a triple cast of Banish Enchantment, which was honestly already all the ranged condi poke we needed. If you happen to be stuck outside of Mallyx, you still have mace 2/3/axe 5 to range your opponent with, as well as sword 2 and 3 to keep kiting/mitigating until Mallyx comes back up.

Mace #2 has only 480 range, Axe #4 only 900 and despite Axe #3 has a range of 1200 units this attack moves foward slower than unfolding a large carpet so is pretty much impossible to hit a target consistently or put any condi pressure with those tools if the foe is a longbow Ranger, Dragon Hunter, pistol Thief, Mesmer, Rifle/GS Warrior, etc.

But I agree in that the Renegade’s short bow doesn’t solve the problem, because the weapon lacks range, damage and useful skills.

But like, why would you purposely want to fight a Longbow Ranger or Dragon Hunter from a range greater than 480 or 900 anyways? I’m assuming you’re condi here, but everything you do from any of your stances has a similar or lesser range.

Maybe you’re talking WvW, where I could see you’d want an OP ranged weapon for your zerg… But I mean, no class has a 1200 ranged condi weapon with the exception on Warrior’s Primal Burst Rifle Skill and a Staff Ele’s Fire 3 and Earth 5 (all of which have cool downs).

In sPvP though, there’s like no situation I can think of where you’d even need this. Say a Longbow Druid or DH or whatever is on the point… You don’t want to sit at 1200 range poking at each other, because they’re running up to score while you’re screwing around like that. You want to run up there, drop Unyielding Anguish, searing fissure, etc right on the point and turn on embrace the darkness until he either gets off or dies. You shouldn’t really be 1v1’ing as condi rev anyways tho since most of your strength lies in AoE, Cleave, and overall Point Control/Bullying.

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Posted by: Buran.3796

Buran.3796

But like, why would you purposely want to fight a Longbow Ranger or Dragon Hunter from a range greater than 480 or 900 anyways? I’m assuming you’re condi here, but everything you do from any of your stances has a similar or lesser range.

I don’t want to fight them at range (neither as the current power or condi builds) but they will kit you hard at range, using things like Ancestral Grace, Swoop, Wings of Resolve, Infiltrator’s Arrow or infiltrator’s Strike (and of coursem stealth) to disengage and then will pressure you with volleys of ranged attacks. That wasn’t as much as a problem with the old Phase Traversal, but currently your gap closers are weaker than their disengage tools, so without a functional ranged weapon it oftently ends bad.

That’s in Conquest, where the control points still have a role (so is good ending dying as long as you decap fast or keep the point for a decent time), but in WvW roaming most of those builds just ran in circles slowly bruising you with 0 effort.

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Condi Revenant is stupidly easy to kite. You have only shiro utility for a real gap closer and axe 4 which is such a stupidly slow projectile, that if you hit someone with such an obvious telegraph, they deserve to die.

A ranged weapon is simply good to have.

If you have a crappy pug group, the final boss in Chaos fractal is a good example where a ranged weapon helps because nobody is helping break the bar and their positioning is causing interruptions to your melee.

Flexibility is never a bad thing.

The problem is this shortbow is a marginal upgrade in flexibility.

There is no beating around the bush, shortbow has terrible numbers.

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Posted by: Arcuss.6457

Arcuss.6457

agreed with op. imo utilities should just be invulnerable and work like wells do. sb needs more utility. citadel bombardment should work like a condi version of meteor shower (artillery doesn’t fire straight at their targets, that’s why it’s called indirect fire).

I don’t foresee anything getting fixed. We’ve been asking them to fix ventari for years and all we get is “Project Tranquility will now instantly activate when invoking this legend”.