Guild Wars 2

Something occurred to me while replying to another topic about the poor identity of the new renegade spec. Even putting aside the various mechanical problems, there’s also a problem even at the level of how her abilities have been named.

Kalla led a rebellion against religious oppression.

The term fervour is often associated with religion, as you can see in the Oxford dictionary definition’s example usage : “he talked with all the fervour of a new convert”.

Yet we have a buff called “Kalla’s Fervor”.

And another called “Orders from Above”. Since she led the rebellion and died immediately afterwards, who is she / we taking orders from? And why do they provide alacrity?

It’s especially bizarre if you read the official wiki entry for the Charr Rebellion. Kalla was famed for her speed, aka alacrity.

“Scores of charr came to watch the battle in the ruined arena in Rin. The two warriors were well matched. As a male of the race, Ironstrike was the larger and stronger of the two, but Scorchrazor was by far the faster and more skilled.”

Obviously the mechanical problems are more serious, but words matter too and their choices are completely at odds with the legend they’re trying to sell us.

I don’t think they put any more thought into it other than picking a female npc to shoehorn in.

logan.5846:

I don’t think they put any more thought into it other than picking a female npc to shoehorn in.

That’s what makes this even harder for me to understand.

I can appreciate them wanting to bring a bit more gender balance to our legend offerings. But having decided to do that, I would have thought that they’d spare no effort in making sure the legend was well received.

Merely making it work underwater would have been widely appreciated. But they didn’t do that. And we’ve got this odd language.

It’s really bizarre.

You might think that with a insufficient understanding of English.
Fervor isn’t intrinsically associated with religion. And because Charr are militaristic, Orders from Above doesn’t have to symbolize religious thought any more than their standard atheism pandering would warrant. It’s much more likely the orders came from higher ups in the command list.

Ghotistyx.6942:

You might think that with a insufficient understanding of English.
Fervor isn’t intrinsically associated with religion. And because Charr are militaristic, Orders from Above doesn’t have to symbolize religious thought any more than their standard atheism pandering would warrant. It’s much more likely the orders came from higher ups in the command list.

Yea, “orders from Above” doesn’t say religion to me, makes me think of “higher ups”, Commanders, Generals, that sort of thing. Up the chain of command so to speak and me thinks that’s where their train of thought was as well.

Ghotistyx.6942:

You might think that with a insufficient understanding of English.
Fervor isn’t intrinsically associated with religion.

You speak of an insufficient understanding of English. How ironic!

Perhaps you need to consult a dictionary on the meaning of a few words, like “often” and “intrinsically”.

Caeledh.5437:

The term fervour is often associated with religion, as you can see in the Oxford dictionary definition’s example usage : “he talked with all the fervour of a new convert”.

Oh….

Ghotistyx.6942:

And because Charr are militaristic, Orders from Above doesn’t have to symbolize religious thought any more than their standard atheism pandering would warrant. It’s much more likely the orders came from higher ups in the command list.

First off, I didn’t say that there was anything religious about Orders from Above. You’ve again completely misunderstood.

The operative term which I used repeatedly is led.

Caeledh.5437:

Kalla led a rebellion against religious oppression.

…

And another called “Orders from Above”. Since she led the rebellion and died immediately afterwards, who is she / we taking orders from? And why do they provide alacrity?

Kalla was in charge. There was no-one above her to take orders from.

Yaaaay language! I like language. I also like looking at more than one source of information when I’m attempting to construct an argument of some sort. In this case I looked at the online Oxford Dictionary (I assume it’s what you did because I found the bit you quoted there, and more) and the Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

I’ll start with the Oxford Dictionary which defines ‘fervor’ as “intense and passionate feeling.” What you quoted is an example of how the word can be used. However, if you had clicked the “More example sentences” button you’d have seen a lot of other examples, the majority of which have nothing to do with religion at all. For example, “Half of those present discussed the imminent international confrontations with passion and fervor.”

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary gives almost the exact same definition for ‘fervor,’ that being “intensity of feeling or expression.” There are also two examples, neither of which are religious in nature. Here’s the second which is more in the theme of Kalla: “revolutionary fervor.”

So, if Kalla fought the Flame Legion and commanded her troops with great passion and commitment, it could be said she did so with fervor.

Second, this “Orders from Above” thing… Kalla was the leader of the rebellion and so if she gave orders to those following her, those followers would see these as “Orders from Above.” As for the alacrity, no idea. Maybe she’s just telling them to get their furry butts in gear and actually attack the Flame Legion or something. It certainly fits a skill which speeds up cds for people around you, though maybe quickness would have been a better than alacrity. Of course, that’s just my take on it; the skill’s name and its relation to Kalla and her story are somewhat ambiguous.

Caeledh.5437:

nah m8.

You made the association, I said it doesn’t have to be there. It makes sense when it isn’t.

Also, we, the players(characters) channel the legends. The Orders from Above are from her. She’s providing us with Alacrity. She is the source of her power.

logan.5846:

I don’t think they put any more thought into it other than picking a female npc to shoehorn in.

I think the whole concept of the Renegade would have fit warrior better.

First, there’s better charr for a legend, like Bonfaaz Burntfur, which has unique Flame Legion magic, and summoned the Searing, destroying Ascalon.

Second, there’s better female legends, like Varesh Ossa, who we should have gotten instead of Mallyx, since she has some personality to begin with.

I like the warband concept of the renegade a lot, but it could really fit any profession. I think it falls a bit short with the revenant, even if the final theme was fleshed really well.

yeah, as I said in my review in the Demo Feedback thread, Kalla’s terminology is completely off with “Fervor” and “from Above”.

A complete 360 from Glint’s Facets.

logan.5846:

I don’t think they put any more thought into it other than picking a female npc to shoehorn in.

i thought this as well. please dont ban me

This message board has put more thought into this build than the team who created it did. I mean Char are more mechanical…so pistol over a bow…the list of why just goes on and on.

DarkStar.1749:

This message board has put more thought into this build than the team who created it did. I mean Char are more mechanical…so pistol over a bow…the list of why just goes on and on.

Did pistols even exist in Kalla’s time? It was roughly 200 years ago—a few decades after events in Eye of the North. In GW1, pistols didn’t exist. Kalla’s grandfather and great grandfather used bows. The ranged charr enemies you face all use bows. The charr technology boom didn’t happen until AFTER Kalla’s rebellion ousted the Flame Legion.

Even if pistols DID exist during Kalla’s time…

-It would be new technology, invented by the Iron Legion.

-The Iron Legion was subservient to the Flame Legion. The Flame Legion would probably turn their noses up at new pistols in favor of good old fire magic projectiles.

-Kalla was a Blood Legion warrior, from a bloodline of rangers. That means melee weapons and bows, plus a cultural disdain of Iron Legion/Ash Legion methods.

-Kalla was a slave woman who trained other slave women to fight with what they had on hand. It is specifically stated in lore that women at the time weren’t allowed to have weapons for war. Which means no pistols on hand.

Modern charr are so “mechanical” because the charr territories we have access to are Iron-Legion owned, and Iron is the technology-oriented Legion.

So, no. A pistol would be VERY out of place as the weapon for the Kalla legend.

…..As to the original post, I agree with some of the other replies. “Fervor” is not a religious word. It means to have great passion for something. That can be a passion for God, or a passion for freeing slaves, or a passion for… I don’t know… cookie dough ice cream. Personally, I’m pretty fervent about that last one.
Just because the OP has probably heard “Fervor” used in a religious context, more than in other contexts… that doesn’t mean the word is tied to religious meaning.

As for Orders From Above, consider this. Kalla earned equal rights for her women rebels in Blood, Iron, and Ash Legion BEFORE the final battle against Flame. Those women would have been integrated into the charr armies as soldiers. Like any other soldiers, they would have taken orders from superior officers. Once they gained equality, Kalla and her rebels would have been given “Orders from Above” by the charr leading the armies.

Personally, I think Kalla’s skill names are fitting.

logan.5846:

I don’t think they put any more thought into it other than picking a female npc to shoehorn in.

Imo, both spell names are fine. While you use of fervor you cited contradicts the shifting faith of charr at the time, that’s shouldn’t be the focus. The word is describing how said individual is feeling, and still functions in consideration to Kalla proper in regards to her cause against the flame legion and their grip over their people in entirety. If you were to use Kalla and her fervor for the war effort against the flame legion, it makes sense.

Orders From Above also still works and its usage is in regards to orders from a higher up in the chain of command. Revenants channel spirits, and while the name off the skill could be better, we aren’t embodying or controlling Kalla, merely invoking her. It’s sort of wishy-washy how it all works, but in this case Afaict, the order is sent to and received from Kalla herself. Kinda wish we had more lore on it, because it’s sort of a gray area where you sort of have to surmise how it functions, outside of because magic, later cub.

On mobile, and I suck at using it to type, so, someone probably put it more elegantly than I. Just my thoughts on it.

Arkaile.5604:

In this case I looked at the online Oxford Dictionary (I assume it’s what you did because I found the bit you quoted there, and more) and the Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

Huh? You assumed? How?

I clearly stated that I used the Oxford dictionary definition and linked directly to it.

Caeledh.5437:

The term fervour is often associated with religion, as you can see in the Oxford dictionary definition’s example usage : “he talked with all the fervour of a new convert”.

As for the rest of what you said, my point stands completely unchallenged.

Fervor is a term commonly associated with religion. Kalla wasn’t just not religious, she had led a rebellion against religious oppression.

Ergo ascribing the attribute of fervor to her is completely insane.

Arkaile.5604:

Second, this “Orders from Above” thing… Kalla was the leader of the rebellion and so if she gave orders to those following her, those followers would see these as “Orders from Above.”

Try reading the ability description.

“Orders from above arrive, renewing your abilities and those of your nearby allies.”

Kalla clearly isn’t issuing those orders and if she were, calling them ‘orders from above’ would be very imperious and also out of character.

Kidel.2057:

yeah, as I said in my review in the Demo Feedback thread, Kalla’s terminology is completely off with “Fervor” and “from Above”.

I struggle to understand how they could get even this so horribly wrong.

It’s like they want us to dislike this legend.

Caeledh.5437:

As for the rest of what you said, my point stands completely unchallenged.

Fervor is a term commonly associated with religion. Kalla wasn’t just not religious, she had led a rebellion against religious oppression.

Ergo ascribing the attribute of fervor to her is completely insane.

But that’s wrong Socrates

Caeledh.5437:

Try reading the ability description.

“Orders from above arrive, renewing your abilities and those of your nearby allies.”

Kalla clearly isn’t issuing those orders and if she were, calling them ‘orders from above’ would be very imperious and also out of character.

What part of that prevents Kalla from being the source? You’ve proven nothing but reasserting your headcanon. But someone agrees with you, so at least you have a friend you can be angry with.

Weindrasi.3805:

DarkStar.1749:

This message board has put more thought into this build than the team who created it did. I mean Char are more mechanical…so pistol over a bow…the list of why just goes on and on.

Did pistols even exist in Kalla’s time? It was roughly 200 years ago—a few decades after events in Eye of the North. In GW1, pistols didn’t exist. Kalla’s grandfather and great grandfather used bows. The ranged charr enemies you face all use bows. The charr technology boom didn’t happen until AFTER Kalla’s rebellion ousted the Flame Legion.

Even if pistols DID exist during Kalla’s time…

-It would be new technology, invented by the Iron Legion.

-The Iron Legion was subservient to the Flame Legion. The Flame Legion would probably turn their noses up at new pistols in favor of good old fire magic projectiles.

-Kalla was a Blood Legion warrior, from a bloodline of rangers. That means melee weapons and bows, plus a cultural disdain of Iron Legion/Ash Legion methods.

-Kalla was a slave woman who trained other slave women to fight with what they had on hand. It is specifically stated in lore that women at the time weren’t allowed to have weapons for war. Which means no pistols on hand.

Modern charr are so “mechanical” because the charr territories we have access to are Iron-Legion owned, and Iron is the technology-oriented Legion.

So, no. A pistol would be VERY out of place as the weapon for the Kalla legend.

…..As to the original post, I agree with some of the other replies. “Fervor” is not a religious word. It means to have great passion for something. That can be a passion for God, or a passion for freeing slaves, or a passion for… I don’t know… cookie dough ice cream. Personally, I’m pretty fervent about that last one.
Just because the OP has probably heard “Fervor” used in a religious context, more than in other contexts… that doesn’t mean the word is tied to religious meaning.

As for Orders From Above, consider this. Kalla earned equal rights for her women rebels in Blood, Iron, and Ash Legion BEFORE the final battle against Flame. Those women would have been integrated into the charr armies as soldiers. Like any other soldiers, they would have taken orders from superior officers. Once they gained equality, Kalla and her rebels would have been given “Orders from Above” by the charr leading the armies.

Personally, I think Kalla’s skill names are fitting.

If she was a super duper ranger then she would have never used a short bow
(As you stated she is a woman so she actually couldn’t have a bow long or short.) Let’s be honest here, this has nothing to do with the lore, it has everything to do with making one of the worst weapons in the game relevant. So far it’s a fail. “-Kalla was a slave woman who trained other slave women to fight with what they had on hand. It is specifically stated in lore that women at the time weren’t allowed to have weapons for war. Which means no pistols on hand.” This should probably be crude spears, hammers, clubs and rocks as they probably wouldnt have crafted a bow and arrow set(this would be considered a weapon of war). I guess we should have gotten a spear and become paragons(does fit the expansion) instead of broken ritualist.

DarkStar.1749:

If she was a super duper ranger then she would have never used a short bow
(As you stated she is a woman so she actually couldn’t have a bow long or short.) Let’s be honest here, this has nothing to do with the lore, it has everything to do with making one of the worst weapons in the game relevant. So far it’s a fail. “-Kalla was a slave woman who trained other slave women to fight with what they had on hand. It is specifically stated in lore that women at the time weren’t allowed to have weapons for war. Which means no pistols on hand.” This should probably be crude spears, hammers, clubs and rocks as they probably wouldnt have crafted a bow and arrow set(this would be considered a weapon of war). I guess we should have gotten a spear and become paragons(does fit the expansion) instead of broken ritualist.

True, but a bow is easier to make from crude materials on hand then a pistol. Additionally, bows were used for hunting. If women were allowed to hunt, perhaps they were allowed small bows (shortbows) to use on small game—bows that wouldn’t be considered a “War bow.” But that goes into speculation.
It may be so that the primary motivation of using shortbow as Kalla’s weapon was to increase its use in game. However, there are enough lore connections to make shortbow viable.
Kalla obviously wasn’t a Ranger, but with her heritage it isn’t unreasonable to assume she’d have natural talent with bows. And a short-range bow is more viable for the close-quarters fighting a Warrior would do.
At any rate, there are enough unknowns in Kalla’s lore that Arenanet could very easily fill in details to make shortbows fit. For that reason primarily, I don’t take an issue with it. Now, if Kalla’s lore stated that she was a near-sighted greatsword-wielder who scorned ranged combat… then I would take issue with it. But, again, the unknowns leave a lot of wiggle room.

Don’t forget GW1 had dual professions.

Weindrasi.3805:

Additionally, bows were used for hunting. If women were allowed to hunt, perhaps they were allowed small bows (shortbows) to use on small game—bows that wouldn’t be considered a “War bow.”

Kalla has the bow because revenant lacked a ranged condition damage weapon and bow is that for ranger and thief. Many medium armour users will already have an ascended condition bow or two and accordingly be more inclined to give renegade a go.