Guild Wars 2

So I haven’t played the game in over 3 years, maybe 4. I reinstalled to find a new class! I’ve had many other 80’s including Mesmer, Warrior, Engi and Necro mostly doing WvW and PvP with them. So getting a new class to play seemed very exciting.

I have to say though I’m rather disappointed. I hope devs read this stuff cause he could use a lot of help.

My first and biggest complaint about the Revenant is the fact there’s almost no build diversity. Once I choose a Legend my skills are picked for me. There’s no options of what skills I get to play. Each Legend has 5 skills and that’s it? Shouldn’t there be at least 5 skills, plus 2 heals, plus 2 elites for each so I have some options? I don’t like the fact the game has basically already told me how to play my class. It’s rather frustrating.

That being said about limiting options with Rev I feel many of the skills for the legends are rather disappointing. Compared to other classes that can get stealth and damage immunities from one selection, or remove ALL conditions, turn them ALL into boons… pressing a button to have hammers swing around you and the inability to do anything else feels rather lackluster. I don’t feel like my skills I do have picked for me do a whole lot for how much they cost. Many of my other classes I can play I can easily have almost everything cooling down. On Rev I find myself in many situations only using 1 or 2 of them at most cause the 3rd either costs too much energy or isn’t even useful in the situation I’m in.

Even with the limited options for Rev of skills to pick I feel like I’m even more limited by the fact that 50% meter runs out very quickly between weapon attacks and support skills on the right side. I find myself many times wanting to do other things (speaking in fast paced pvp) but almost always out of energy to do them. Compared to my Engineer who can toss out grenade spam like crazy, swap to any kit/weapon at will, spam attacks, block, reflect projectiles etc…. the Revanent feels completely hindered in combat.

Personally I think either weapon attacks shouldn’t use energy, or each Legend should start at 100%. Starting at 50% AND having weapon skills use that energy highly limits the gameplay in my opinion. I mean I’d love to swap to Shiro, use heal skill, put super speed on then dash in and start slashing people. But I can’t cause I run out of energy too fast.

Next thing I’m not so happy with is water combat. I already have my 2 Legends chosen for me (Shiro and Demon) AND my 5 skills for that legend are already picked for me. On top of that I can’t even weapon swap. WTF?! Did you guys put any thought into this at all? Is Jay Wilson on the design team for Revenant? … sure feels like he is.

TLDR: Rev runs out of energy too easily, there should be more skills to choose from on your support bar (2 heals, 5 suppor skills, 2 elites at the very least) so there’s some build diversity, and swapping to a Legend should start at 100% energy or attacks no longer cost energy to promote more fast paced combat and not have to sit around and wait for energy to build up.

That’s my opinion at least after 50ish games in PvP and getting him to level 30. Even through all of this I think I’ll keep playing him because A) I like a challenge in the hero I play and It’s gotten boring feeling like superman playing my Engi and Mesmer.

Edit:

Forgot to mention how sad the shield skills are. I mean one doesn’t even block it just gives protection and a small heal? That’s laughable for a fugging shield skill. The next blocks… and heals… but you can’t MOVE?! Compare that to Engi who can reflect projectiles AND push away opponents with one skill, or block all attacks for 3 seconds while moving? I mean that’s just an utter joke.

And lastly one of the most important things in this game is the ability to stomp downed players in pvp. There’s no safe way for Rev to do this. Guardians can use block, Engi can elixer to shrink, hell even necro can block and gain stability. Ele can pop block skill i mean on an on. Our only option would be to use Dwarf legend to make a road to gain stability? That’s asking a lot, using a kitten Legend in pvp just to be able to stomp. It’s rather sad.

The revenant is a class you have to get used to, you need to learn how to properly use your resource and your skills. Speaking of which, the revenant has access to more skills in combat than average due the ability to swap between your chosen legends, only elemantalist and engineer have more. I can´t deny that two legends limit builds diversity, moreover the traits of the revenant are bound to specific legends or are supposed to be used with selfsame.

Tactical decision matters, that counts more for the revenant than to any other class.

You mentioned that you usually play wvw and pvp, what about pve ? It´s worth a consideration in terms of learning how to properly play this class.

There is a reason I play hammer & glint ;-)

Idk how anyone plays rev beyond those but people do. Probably people who put alot of time into the class to get a feel for its energy flow.

>>weapon attacks shouldn’t use energy

Absolutely agree with this.
That’s IMO one of the major flaws of Reve design. And that at least can be fixed without a major rebalancing.
The second one is “legend = your skills”, so no diversity at all.

While I agree with you on some things (at least one more utility for each Legend, or a little pool of generic non legend utilities would have done wonders for the class), I think most of the problem is in not trying to play Rev as you play other classes.
Rev has its own way to be played and when it finally clicks, at least for me, it’s hard to go back.
Energy is part of the deal and I see how it can be annoying to have yet another thing to look at. But you’ll get used to it, and it’s the thing that let Rev have this peculiar gameplay.
You really feel like you have 20 skill at your disposal, 10 at each time and grouped by 5. This give us 4 different combinations and the unique ability to have 100% different skills by switching legend and weapon. Almost a soft build change.
And utilities are not “utilities” but part of the skill you actively use, continuously.
This lead to more interesting tactical choices, but in real time.

For example, using Mallyx, Embrace the darkness can give me torment, more damage and burn. Do I use it or it’s better to use Unyielding Anguish for the chill, faster torment application and combo field? How much energy do I have left? It’s the enemy stationary? Which weapon am I using? Should I switch weapon? Am I taking too much damage? Do I need a stun break? Can I use Pain Absorption or shoud I switch to Jalis?

I can go on forever. But the point is that for me the ability to constantly adapt to the situation makes me feel like the outcome of the fight is more tied to my real time choices than any other class. I find it more rewarding.

PS: This doesn’t mean in any way that the class doesn’t have problems and that can’t be made better.

Captain Obvious.6951:

And lastly one of the most important things in this game is the ability to stomp downed players in pvp. There’s no safe way for Rev to do this. Guardians can use block, Engi can elixer to shrink, hell even necro can block and gain stability. Ele can pop block skill i mean on an on. Our only option would be to use Dwarf legend to make a road to gain stability? That’s asking a lot, using a kitten Legend in pvp just to be able to stomp. It’s rather sad.

There’s some ways to stomp outisde Jalis, as using Glazing of Darkness to blind and cross the fingers to not lose the single balance stack. But after the nerf to Unwavering Avoidance in October of the last year I just take on that the Rev isn’t designed to stomp or to have stability at all, so I cleave everyyhing that falls to the floor. Stomping isn’t a part of the Rev gameplay. You simply don’t have stomp, as neither you have access to stealth.

Arzurag.7506:

The revenant is a class you have to get used to, you need to learn how to properly use your resource and your skills. Speaking of which, the revenant has access to more skills in combat than average due the ability to swap between your chosen legends, only elemantalist and engineer have more.

I can appreciate a class that is difficult to play as I usually don’t go for the fotm or easy mode classes. I usually enjoy a challenge.

Let me give a more detailed example of what I’m trying to say here and you let me know if maybe I’m just thinking incorrectly about this.

If you play just about any other class in the game you can swap to skills/weapons/kits and start spamming to your hearts content if you want. Like an Engi can swap to grenade kit, toss out blinding grenades, then freeze, poison bomb and bleed, swap to rifle, drop elixer for stability, hit rifle 4, then rifle 5, and use grenade utility all for a total of about 25k dmg in a matter of just a few seconds.

An Elementalist could use 3 fast attacks in fire mode, swap to cold, drop ice bomb, throw down fast heal to remove condi, swap to air, dash at enemy, zap em to death and if need be can pop his utility slots on the right for quick block or invulnerability if needed.

So yah it isn’t really a class thing, it’s more of a Guild Wars fast paced combat thing as I see it.

Playing the Revanent here’s what I ‘want’ to be able to do…

Playing in Glint.. getting buffs… drop fire aoe ok… use claws ok… getting in trouble? Swap to Shiro! What I should be able to do is Riposting shadows to dash backwards out of danger, pop heal skill, use phase traversal to get back in melee range, then use sword 3 attack. I honestly don’t think that’s a lot to ask out of the game to be able to do 4 simple maneuvers.

But if you add the energy cost of all that up that’s 30 for the dash backwards, 5 for the heal, 35 for the dash back into combat!!!!, then 15 on top of that for the weapon attack. I mean holy crap! You usually have to wait a second or two just to get the phase traversal off, then you’re out of energy and end up auto atacking for another 2 or 3 seconds before you can even use your weapon attack. I find this very frustrating as I’m not even attempting to use the Impossible Odds ridiculous energy drainer, or the 50 cost ult or any of my other weapon attacks.

It just doesn’t feel right to me that the Rev has to sit around and wait for 3 to 5 seconds just to do three moves which any other class in the game can do quite easily in less time.

Garr.1823:

>>weapon attacks shouldn’t use energy

Absolutely agree with this.
That’s IMO one of the major flaws of Reve design. And that at least can be fixed without a major rebalancing.
The second one is “legend = your skills”, so no diversity at all.

Yah if they removed the cost for attacks I’d be much much happier with the Rev. I mean think about a Rogue right. His attacks have no cooldown, but cost energy. Ours cost energy AND have a cooldown AND share that energy cost with our support skills on the right. I mean it feels really harsh.

As for the skill diversity I was really confused. Every other class has like 4 or 5 options for heals where Rev can only have 2 legends so your heals are already picked for you essentially. I mean if you’re not playing condi you’re not gonna use demon. If you’re not playing heal spec you’re not gonna use Centaur. So uh kitten if you’re playing Power Rev, and Glint is pretty much a must pick, you’re between Dwarf or Shiro. Not much option there.

I really think each legend should have an option of 2 heals each, at least 5 skills for the 3 support skills so you can choose how you would like that legend to play for you, and at least 2 ults for each so you aren’t stuck with an ult you might never use. As it sits I’ve never once used Shiro’s ult in PvP cause well first of all I’ve never had that much energy to even use it and second I feel I’d rather save the energy for escapes rather than stone people who can just break stun.

Captain Obvious.6951:

And lastly one of the most important things in this game is the ability to stomp downed players in pvp. There’s no safe way for Rev to do this. Guardians can use block, Engi can elixer to shrink, hell even necro can block and gain stability. Ele can pop block skill i mean on an on. Our only option would be to use Dwarf legend to make a road to gain stability? That’s asking a lot, using a kitten Legend in pvp just to be able to stomp. It’s rather sad.

rev is the class that excels in cleave damage. it isnt meant for stomping.

Garr.1823:

>>weapon attacks shouldn’t use energy

Absolutely agree with this.
That’s IMO one of the major flaws of Reve design. And that at least can be fixed without a major rebalancing.
The second one is “legend = your skills”, so no diversity at all.

I dunno about free usage of weapon skills. I just started to play front line rev glint/mallyx.

Atm I am getting use to keeping up pain absorbtion, if weapon skills cost no energy then I can spam 7-10k cor and spam a whole party condI clear + reactance skill at will with out any issues.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

if weapon skills cost no energy then I can spam 7-10k cor and spam a whole party condI clear + reactance skill at will with out any issues.

All weapon skills has cooldowns, so you can’t spam them. Only thiefs can spam their skills.
Even all of yours legend skills got cooldowns, and no one asks to remove the cooldowns from them.
We just trying to say that cooldowns (like all professions) AND energy cost (like thiefs) is too much.

Captain Obvious.6951:

And lastly one of the most important things in this game is the ability to stomp downed players in pvp. There’s no safe way for Rev to do this.

You can Gaze of Darkness(Glint’s fury facet) to blind certain classes like engi, ranger and some others for a safe stomp. The downside is you gotta burn your cheap stunbreak.

As a whole, I have to agree with your general assessment and having logged in many hours on Engi, I feel your feelings of shield to be sadly accurate. Shield is considered a bad weapon on Engi, but it’s even worse on Rev.

As complex as Engi is, Rev can also be complex in a sense on how you play. The issue with energy is why glint in so easy to play since it’s facets are very efficient taking away the needed energy management skill you’ll learn as you gain experience. On Glint, energy is never spent, only upkeep. You can double tap Elemental blast and facet of Strength and never miss a beat in term of your energy pool.

Playing Shiro is kind of weird as it’s best used for defense with Reposting Shadows. Keep in mind to burn a dodge before you use it(unless you need the stunbreak) because it gives you back 25 endurance. You can cycle through your defenses pretty well with Shiro by Dodge, Reposting Shadows, dodge, Staff 3, RS, etkittenil you get back your legend swap. Impossible odds is a huge energy sink. I only use it to cleave and to superspeed out of a tight situation.

Can stomp,

War
Guard
Rev
Ranger
Engi
Necro
Mesmer

With gaze of darkness.

Garr.1823:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

if weapon skills cost no energy then I can spam 7-10k cor and spam a whole party condI clear + reactance skill at will with out any issues.

All weapon skills has cooldowns, so you can’t spam them. Only thiefs can spam their skills.
Even all of yours legend skills got cooldowns, and no one asks to remove the cooldowns from them.
We just trying to say that cooldowns (like all professions) AND energy cost (like thiefs) is too much.

at 4 second recharge (use to be 2) is borderline spamming.

players who play diablo3 can see what ANet is doing with revenant xD

Aeolus.3615:

players who play diablo3 can see what ANet is doing with revenant xD

I’m out of the loop. Never played D3. Can you explain?

Justine.6351:

Can stomp,

War
Guard
Rev
Ranger
Engi
Necro
Mesmer

With gaze of darkness.

That’s kind of true… but you’d have to time it JUST right to land that one shot of blind cause if you did it too early they will remove it with their basic attack while downed.

Stop and think here though. If I’m playing an Engi or Ele or jesus pick any other class in the game, I can dive into a group of 4 players, pop my (damage immunity, shrink, block, whatever) and stomp the player with zero fear of being interrupted.

Can the Revanent do this? Nope. Not even close. Getting that first player downed, and stomped instantly, almost assures victory on the first team fight.

Not to mention if you blind to early, or get interrupted, you’ve now stopped pulsing your fury to you and your team and you lost 40% critical chance!

HOLY CRAP!

I lost 40% crit chance, to stomp 1 player? REALLY?

You’re thinking this is a good thing?

Captain Obvious.6951:

Justine.6351:

Can stomp,

War
Guard
Rev
Ranger
Engi
Necro
Mesmer

With gaze of darkness.

That’s kind of true… but you’d have to time it JUST right to land that one shot of blind cause if you did it too early they will remove it with their basic attack while downed.

Stop and think here though. If I’m playing an Engi or Ele or jesus pick any other class in the game, I can dive into a group of 4 players, pop my (damage immunity, shrink, block, whatever) and stomp the player with zero fear of being interrupted.

Can the Revanent do this? Nope. Not even close. Getting that first player downed, and stomped instantly, almost assures victory on the first team fight.

Not to mention if you blind to early, or get interrupted, you’ve now stopped pulsing your fury to you and your team and you lost 40% critical chance!

HOLY CRAP!

I lost 40% crit chance, to stomp 1 player? REALLY?

You’re thinking this is a good thing?

um the fury boon stacks duration and is quite persistent. And yes its not very hard to deny a downed opponent their cc skill with an instant cast blind.

Now cleave, that’s another story.

Captain Obvious.6951:

Not to mention if you blind to early, or get interrupted, you’ve now stopped pulsing your fury to you and your team and you lost 40% critical chance!

HOLY CRAP!

I lost 40% crit chance, to stomp 1 player? REALLY?

You’re thinking this is a good thing?

All valid points except this^. Fury is so easy to get with an invocation rev. You can swap legends to proc Invoker’s Rage or double tap, Facet of Nature.

I’ve thought for quite a while about this one, and I have a suggestion that I think might help.
If memory serves, the Legend skills were kept limited to give each one a really focused concept and style, so… why not, rather than having a bunch of separate skills, have each skill have say… 3 variants or so that do slightly different things, but still the same overall concept?
It cuts down on new animation and effects work, it makes it easier for the Legends to not bleed into each other too much, and it means that the build diversity can increase significantly.

Slowmelt.8547:

I’ve thought for quite a while about this one, and I have a suggestion that I think might help.
If memory serves, the Legend skills were kept limited to give each one a really focused concept and style, so… why not, rather than having a bunch of separate skills, have each skill have say… 3 variants or so that do slightly different things, but still the same overall concept?
It cuts down on new animation and effects work, it makes it easier for the Legends to not bleed into each other too much, and it means that the build diversity can increase significantly.

That really is my point in this. Think about it.

My Engi all in one setup has: Tons of condi dmg with pistol and grenades, one skill that removes 14 conditions AND drops 5 heal kits that heal over 1k each, a way to shrink and become immune to all damage allowing him to stomp freely or escape a bad situation, stealth, grenades that all give 3 stacks of vuln and cause bleeding/cripple, a reflect projectiles block, a melee block, and a 3rd melee block that stuns the attacker, a ranged pull (better than that stupid sword 5 pull on rev), an aoe turret healing him and his entire party constantly which can also block attacks for you when you hide behind it i mean christ there’s SO MUCH TO DO! And all of these things he can do instantly, swapping like crazy, not worrying about this stupid energy thing, swapping to any weapon or kit at will with no cooldown. Compared to a Rev it feels like god mode.

A Rev would basically have to be spec’d as conditions to remove conditions that well, or spec’d as a healer for Centaur to do it that well. And I don’t like this. I think it should be 100% viable as a Rev if I want to be spec’d as Shiro and have a good escape tool, condi removal, and some kind of block/evade/shrinke/immunity or whatever I feel like as an alternate skill. Not to mention maybe I don’t like the stone ult and I would prefer a different option.