Guild Wars 2

After playing the rev during this first play test. I really enjoy the class and mechanic. Although it did sub par damage, I enjoy it with one weapon. (no swap)

After seeing that they have swapping, I got to thinking that it’s going to be a button mashing class, IE – swapping legends and weapons. I don’t disagree with having weapon swap, especially since I enjoyed the class without it, but what if you focused on a different mechanic.

I have read countless posts bashing on a single weapon spec, and those that have talked down the idea of associating weapons to legends, why not combine them together. Allow players to choose to swap weapons, and choose what legend they’re associated with.

Think of it like this:
Player chooses Shiro and Jalis, with Dual Swords and Mace/Axe.

When the player swaps to Shiro, the player swaps to swords. When they switch to Jalis, they swap to Mace/Axe.

Maybe they choose to run Shiro with hammer and Jalis with Swords. It allows you yo synergize the swap with the legend. For . I was using Mace/Axe primarily for Jalis to provide Speed for my team.

You can choose whichever legends you equip and whichever weapons they associate with.

My main concern is now that they have swap, we have to monitor weapon swaps, legends, cds, and energy. Yes of course, “you just have to play better” or “its not hard to do”. But it will offer fluidity to the class in lieu of the new weapon swap.

Not looking to argue, but it offers a solution to having a fluid class.

I have mained engineer since the release so it’s not a matter of the class is too hard, make it easier, it allows the player to customize the rev without over complicating things.

Or you could just, y’know, swap both your legend and weapon at the same time, and let the people who don’t want to be restricted do their thing.

really, EVERY class that has weapon swap also has at least a single F skill to also use.

Oh no, a warrior has to change weapons to use another F skill (many swap and F1 instantly).

Oh no a mesmer puts out clone from 1 weapon, Weaponswaps and Clone from 2nd weapon then uses one of its FOUR ‘F’ abilities to shatter (Put in a dodge somewhere for 3 clones).

Oh no a ranger has to switch weapons after using a pet F2 fear whilst in melee in order to make quick use of the extra range that he generated for his ranged weapon set

and on, and on and on. You say it about not over complicating things but you doing just that by linking a certain set of weapons to each legend slot.

Take a scenerio.

I have Shiro and Jalis selected.
I have Sword/Sword and Hammer.

Fight start:
using shiro and sword/sword. Phase in, deal dmg with sword/sword. heal used. Keep fighting.
I get loaded up with conditions. Shiro has no cleanses. I need to swap to Jalis just to heal and remove conditions.

Current setup:
I switch to jalis, use the heal and can continue to use the optimal weapon I have for the current situation – This means Sword/Sword because I wish to remain in my highest dps/melee weapon set to try finish the enemy off . Or if the case becomes necessary I will switch back to Shiro, phase traverse/roll out the fight, switch to hammer and put a bit of range pressure on them whilst I regen/wait on sword/sword cooldowns.

Your setup:
Fight starts as originally.
I need to switch to Jalis to heal. Doing so removes my access to sword/sword and puts me on Hammer whilst in melee range. I start doing slow and easily avoided attacks with a ranged weapon whilst in melee range with no way to control it, simply because I needed a condition cleanse. I switch back to Shiro to get back to my melee set but in a much worse situation then when I can select my weapon based on situation as well as my legend.
………….

Your idea (one that been mentioned a hundred million times in a million different threads) REMOVES customisation options rather than increases them and makes it a lot more complicated.
And yes I know there are ways around the situation if i played it different under your rules, such as using shiro to disengage than swapping legends so at ranged before healing.. 2 issues though there – 1) have to always save energy in order to do such a move if you will need condition cleanse. 2) in the time you do that the condi burst could kill you (extra travel time etc before you can swap legend and heal). 3) You likely lost any upperhand you had by needing to disengage in the first place.

In what way would it remove customization. You choose the weapons and the legends they associate with. You wouldn’t be losing anything, in fact you could synergize the gameplay to your style.

You still have weapon swap. Instead of using shiro or swords to disengage, you switch to Jalis, cleanse, switch back and continue on.

I wasn’t saying, you remove customization. You aren’t losing swaps, you basically have “kits” lets call them. You choose say swords + shiro for your damage. Then you use Hammer + Jalis, your disengaged, you heal, cleanse, re-engage, swap back. It’s just making the process easier. Instead of swapping, then swapping to your other legend, then swapping back, and switch back legends, it’s optimized.

It would be like having 2 light switches for the same light rather than one. Rather than switching both, you use a single switch.

I’m not saying Swords = Shiro only or Hammer = Jalis.
You still can customize your gameplay. You just choose what each weapon associates with.

Potentially refer this to an engineer using 2 kits. I bring out my grenades, apply pressure, notice I’m receiving x ammount of damage, swap to negate damage with my shield and toolkit, immobilize and set up my next round of burst, and swap back. Merely the same concept.

I disagree completly, it feels awful being stuck to just melee or just ranged. Just Tank/heal or just DPS. The ability to adapt to situations is a core part of all specializations. Engis have a variety of support and damaging kits. But they still can use both in the same combat instance, Same with eles, you could go from pure damage to assisting in healing, to crowd control.

Revs just don’t have that with one weapon and two legends.

As previously stated, I’m for the fact that they added weapon swapping. I’m asking for some sort of optimization to make it more streamlined.

You can equip 2 weapons.

Weapon A setup sword/axe whatever legend you see suitable.
Weapon B setup hammerwhatever legend you see suitable.

Maybe ill run a damage/support build.

I have my swords and shiro. That’ll be my damage.
I have Staff with Jalis. I’ll use that with support.

Maybe for pvp ill change that staff legend to ventari.

You still have swap, instead of having 4 different setups, you have 2 that are optimized the way you want.

Instead of having to swap weapons, then swap legends, it’s all done in one shot.

I used my heal while using my swords and in Shiro, I swap to my hammer which switches me to Jalis, now I have my heal up with my hammer.

As far as energy goes, it could be managed as a generic pool. Each switch takes away 15-25 energy, as it flatlines to 50. So it wouldn’t take away from building energy on a specific legend. It would be similar to cycling kits on an engineer, then cycling back while I wait for an essential CD on a skill.

you base your idea on engineer toolkit-swap, which unlike legend/weapon-swap has no cd. Then there is also a nice synergy between shiro and hammer skills, so just staying in shiro mode and swapping weapons is already the optimal solution. Using the jalis legend with swords looks interesting too.

You idea has 2 flaws:
1) you think that you swap legends only according to situations whan you also need to change weapons (like whan you need to go ranged for kiting you have to swap legend and a ranged weapon)
2) you think that there is only 1 weapon suited for 1 legend.

Both those assumtions are wrong.

If I use S/S+Hammer I don’t want to be forced to go ranged everytime I swap legend to stunbreak or to recover energy. And of course I want to be able to use melee and ranged weapons.

S/S + Hammer is also very good with a Shiro/Mallyx setup, and both legends are good with both weapon setups. Why should I change to hammer whan I equip Mallyx for EtD?

I don’t know if you played Revenant in the beta, but upkeep skills force you to swap legend, or you can’t use weaponskills.
Forcing to swap weapons on weaponswap is a bad idea.

Plus why do you care? With the current weaponswap you can basically emulate what you want. Just swap weapon when you swap legend.
Don’t want to press 2 buttons? Set up a macro. There are many softwares to do that.

This thread has no purpose except bothering people who are happy with the current decision.

Kidel.2057:

2) you think that there is only 1 weapon suited for 1 legend.

Both those assumtions are wrong.

So which weapons would you use per legend?

Kidel.2057:

S/S + Hammer is also very good with a Shiro/Mallyx setup, and both legends are good with both weapon setups. Why should I change to hammer whan I equip Mallyx for EtD?

Ahhhh I think I see what you’re getting at. You could use Mallyx in a power build for his condition manipulation… But I wonder what purpose it would serve. Why bother copying your conditions when you have no condi damage? Why not cleanse instead? Conversely I wonder just how useful Ventari or Jalis are on a condi build… Personally when I tried it, it was crap.

Kidel.2057:

Forcing to swap weapons on weaponswap (sic – you mean legend?) is a bad idea.

Totally agree.

Kidel.2057:

This thread has no purpose except bothering people who are happy with the current decision.

You seem to be under the impression that these forums are meant to be some kind of comfort zone for specific cliques of people. Unfortunately the reality is that Anet set up this space for ALL players of ALL opinions to post their opinions and discuss the game in a polite and constructive manor. Which is, I believe, what the OP has been trying to do.

Much appreciate that there are still some people who understand the point of forums. I was merely throwing in my personal feedback and was trying to see what players thought of it instead of, ermagerd anet do this exactly what I want. I’m going to play the rev regardless of if they keep it as is or not. I enjoy the game.

All I was doing was trying to propose a way to make the class more fluid and see what the community thought. I didn’t expect the WoW elitist mentality of your idea is stupid like everyone else’s and you shouldn’t have posted here.

In regards to the earlier reply, I guess my opinion is heavily biased based on my experience with the engineer.

Why are we still talking about weapon swap? this is the second topic ive seen asking for a change to it. Its here, instead of certain people to just be happy that the class isnt being restricted anymore, we have trolls trying to get such a great thing reversed.

Button mashing wont work because you will always need energy, if you smack everything that isnt on cd, you will be left stranded. Tying weapons with legends is a bad idea with gw2s type of combat. There are countless number of situations where you might need a legend skill not tied to the weapon skill you need to use. That will happen and very often.

Please stop comparing the first beta revenant to what revenant is now, they are night and day, revenant during that beta was complete trash compared to the other classes. Necro which is considered the worst class in the game could kill 2 of them at the same time without healing.

Thankfully Roy and his team are doing a great job at building the class, let them finish it and launch a second beta before making restrictive suggestions.

Xenon.4537:

Ahhhh I think I see what you’re getting at. You could use Mallyx in a power build for his condition manipulation… But I wonder what purpose it would serve. Why bother copying your conditions when you have no condi damage? Why not cleanse instead? Conversely I wonder just how useful Ventari or Jalis are on a condi build… Personally when I tried it, it was crap.

It’s simply not for condy copy.
You get 30% damage bonus under Mallyx Elite with power builds, so using Swords you just maximize your damage output if you also have a quickness source (well, even without it considering cooldowns). And well, condis on a power build are not great, but it’s extra damage.
Plus Staff+Jalis and Hammer+Ventari are actually better combos then the canonical ones.
Also read Roy’s comment here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Misconception-Legends-Weapons/first#post5325696

Ragion.2831:

Why are we still talking about weapon swap? this is the second topic ive seen asking for a change to it. Its here, instead of certain people to just be happy that the class isnt being restricted anymore, we have trolls trying to get such a great thing reversed.

Button mashing wont work because you will always need energy, if you smack everything that isnt on cd, you will be left stranded. Tying weapons with legends is a bad idea with gw2s type of combat. There are countless number of situations where you might need a legend skill not tied to the weapon skill you need to use. That will happen and very often.

Please stop comparing the first beta revenant to what revenant is now, they are night and day, revenant during that beta was complete trash compared to the other classes. Necro which is considered the worst class in the game could kill 2 of them at the same time without healing.

Thankfully Roy and his team are doing a great job at building the class, let them finish it and launch a second beta before making restrictive suggestions.

100% agree.
Why people keep suggesting restrictive options?
It’s for the sake of being original for no other reason? Or just eles and engis coming to complain?

Kidel.2057:

100% agree.
Why people keep suggesting restrictive options?
It’s for the sake of being original for no other reason? Or just eles and engis coming to complain?

Being original is the point of having different classes in a game…

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

100% agree.
Why people keep suggesting restrictive options?
It’s for the sake of being original for no other reason? Or just eles and engis coming to complain?

Being original is the point of having different classes in a game…

Lacking weapon swap doesn’t make it any more original.

iGuarDiaN.1925:

Much appreciate that there are still some people who understand the point of forums. I was merely throwing in my personal feedback and was trying to see what players thought of it instead of, ermagerd anet do this exactly what I want. I’m going to play the rev regardless of if they keep it as is or not. I enjoy the game.

All I was doing was trying to propose a way to make the class more fluid and see what the community thought. I didn’t expect the WoW elitist mentality of your idea is stupid like everyone else’s and you shouldn’t have posted here.

In regards to the earlier reply, I guess my opinion is heavily biased based on my experience with the engineer.

Adding restrictions is a great way to make things more rigid, which is the polar opposite of fluidity. If you’re trying to make the class play more fluidly, then you’re going in the completely wrong direction.

iGuarDiaN.1925:

I used my heal while using my swords and in Shiro, I swap to my hammer which switches me to Jalis, now I have my heal up with my hammer.

And what happens when your opponent is in your face with melee? You’re stuck with a weapon that’s not meant to be melee and in fact has even less damage because the target is up closer, past the optimal range.

Is it not similar to a ranger running greatsword and longbow?

If someone is in melee and you’re stuck in longbow, you aren’t doing as much damage. Ya, they have a couple of skills to combat that, IE their 3/4, but you’re still doing less damage. You can run shiro with hammer and utilize the stun/life steal.

I guess what I’m trying to say when I say fluid is to make it streamlined in regards to their mechanic.

And if you compare the “beta” rev to the rev it is now, it is still in beta. It’s subject to change, but I agree that the adding the swap makes it very different from what it was.

iGuarDiaN.1925:

Is it not similar to a ranger running greatsword and longbow?

If someone is in melee and you’re stuck in longbow, you aren’t doing as much damage. Ya, they have a couple of skills to combat that, IE their 3/4, but you’re still doing less damage. You can run shiro with hammer and utilize the stun/life steal.

I guess what I’m trying to say when I say fluid is to make it streamlined in regards to their mechanic.

And if you compare the “beta” rev to the rev it is now, it is still in beta. It’s subject to change, but I agree that the adding the swap makes it very different from what it was.

No, it is not the same thing. What would be the same thing is that the very same Ranger while using GS uses Healing as One, or their Signet of Stone, or Lightening Reflexes, but doing this also causes weapon swap to Longbow.

Also, the class mechanic is to switch Legends and their associated Utility, Heal, and Elite skills. Weapon swap is not a class mechanic.

iGuarDiaN.1925:

I guess what I’m trying to say when I say fluid is to make it streamlined in regards to their mechanic.

But that doesn’t make it more fluid. What if I needed the quickness burst from Impossible Odds to more quickly stack conditions on my enemy with my mace/axe? What if I wanted to run staff without having to take Ventari? The idea behind “streamlining” something is to make it more easily accessible without unnecessary complication, and by locking weapons to legends you’re doing the exact opposite.

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

100% agree.
Why people keep suggesting restrictive options?
It’s for the sake of being original for no other reason? Or just eles and engis coming to complain?

Being original is the point of having different classes in a game…

Sure, making revenant the same as elementalist is way more original
/irony off

Kidel.2057:

You get 30% damage bonus under Mallyx Elite with power builds

I didn’t think of that. Point well taken.

Kidel.2057:

And well, condis on a power build are not great, but it’s extra damage.

Indeed. See, my angle on this is that condi builds really suffer on revenant because there’s only 1 weapon set that actually comes with condi, and only 1 legend that works with them. Power builds are probably going to be just fine, but who’s surprised? They should just rename this game Power Wars 2.

I daresay I’m not the only one sick of running full zerk in pve. I’m wondering why it’s suddenly okay on the revenant forums.

Kidel.2057:

Plus Staff+Jalis and Hammer+Ventari are actually better combos then the canonical ones.
Also read Roy’s comment here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Misconception-Legends-Weapons/first#post5325696

I can understand staff on Jalis because the skills tend to improve tanking… but hammer on Ventari? Why? Ventari is all about the heals and cleanse. Hammer gives you some range so I suppose that allows you to do backline support? Is that the idea? Seriously I’m just curious because Roy never explained. People just asserted that those combos were somehow better.

Again I would just like to have more DPS options for pve, otherwise it’s going to be boring to me. That 30% damage boost from Mallyx only makes it worse. That means my PvE build is set in stone:

[Shiro + Mallyx + Invocation]

Shiro has the raw DPS skills, as do swords. Devistation has half the raw % damage modifiers. The other half are in Invocation. Mallyx provides another 30% damage plus some minor condi utility. The only way this will change is if Glint provides something to offset the loss of Mallyx or Shiro. And either way there’s little reason to run without dual swords and hammer or staff.

This is getting a bit off topic, so I’ll try to reign it in. Weapon swapping adds some much needed flexibility and additional skills. I just wish they would have found a more creative solution. As it stands, they didn’t solve build diversity with this change. It was a bit of a missed opportunity in my opinion.

Kidel.2057:

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

100% agree.
Why people keep suggesting restrictive options?
It’s for the sake of being original for no other reason? Or just eles and engis coming to complain?

Being original is the point of having different classes in a game…

Sure, making revenant the same as elementalist is way more original
/irony off

it’s atleast way more original then making it the third heavy with weapon swap.

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

100% agree.
Why people keep suggesting restrictive options?
It’s for the sake of being original for no other reason? Or just eles and engis coming to complain?

Being original is the point of having different classes in a game…

Sure, making revenant the same as elementalist is way more original
/irony off

it’s atleast way more original then making it the third heavy with weapon swap.

No…. No it’s not.

Black Box.9312:

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

100% agree.
Why people keep suggesting restrictive options?
It’s for the sake of being original for no other reason? Or just eles and engis coming to complain?

Being original is the point of having different classes in a game…

Sure, making revenant the same as elementalist is way more original
/irony off

it’s atleast way more original then making it the third heavy with weapon swap.

No…. No it’s not.

Yes….Yes it is.

Also nobody said making it like ele, does ele has a specific attunement only for condi like Mallyx? no..exactly..having legend swap and no weapon swap doesnt make him an ele…

Sure, copying a class main mechanic is more original then using a common mechanic, like “walking”

And in the other thread, when we told you that legendswap can’t replace weaponswap, you suggested to change revenant utility skills to be more like weaponskills. Isn’t it basically elementalist, just with weaponskills on the other side of the bar?

Also you still fail to give 1 valid reason why this is better then normal weaponswap, except “originality” (nope)

Kidel.2057:

Sure, copying a class main mechanic is more original then using a common mechanic, like “walking”

And in the other thread, when we told you that legendswap can’t replace weaponswap, you suggested to change revenant utility skills to be more like weaponskills. Isn’t it basically elementalist, just with weaponskills on the other side of the bar?

Also you still fail to give 1 valid reason why this is better then normal weaponswap, except “originality” (nope)

You really need to learn the word “original”, Using a common mechanic is not original, at all.
Also having no weaponswap is copying a classs main mechanic now?

Kidel.2057:

And in the other thread, when we told you that legendswap can’t replace weaponswap, you suggested to change revenant utility skills to be more like weaponskills. Isn’t it basicapelly elementalist, just with weaponskills on the other side of the bar?
)

what do you even mean, do you have a slightest idea what you talking about?
What is “basically elementalist”, every class has weapon set and utility set…like what are you even talking about…warrior has two weapon swap and one utility, thief has two wepaon swap and one utility, all of these would be on the other side of the bar..and they should be the ones to compare to, because 2 weapon set > 2 utility set, not eles 4 weapon set > 2 utility set..
if anything only engi kit would be more close to utlity replacing weapon skills..

I mean come on, make some sense…

lighter.2708:

Black Box.9312:

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

100% agree.
Why people keep suggesting restrictive options?
It’s for the sake of being original for no other reason? Or just eles and engis coming to complain?

Being original is the point of having different classes in a game…

Sure, making revenant the same as elementalist is way more original
/irony off

it’s atleast way more original then making it the third heavy with weapon swap.

No…. No it’s not.

Yes….Yes it is.

Also nobody said making it like ele, does ele has a specific attunement only for condi like Mallyx? no..exactly..having legend swap and no weapon swap doesnt make him an ele…

Sorry, but “WE NEED A HEAVY CLASS WITHOUT WEAPON SWAP BECAUSE THEN THERE’S A THEME” is not original nor is it a valid reason at all. The class sucked terribly without it, and even with it it still needs some work. I really fail to see how adding weapon swap takes away from the “originality” of the class when it still has the legend swap mechanic as well.

Balance is far more important than theme is (as any decent Guardian player would know well by this point), so it really doesn’t matter if you get personally offended by the fact that there isn’t a heavy class lacking weapon swap, because if you take it away again you’ll be left with the same class that will never see any decent playtime anyway because it will be terrible.

Kidel.2057:

And still you keep treating utility set and weapon set as if they were the same thing.
2 weapon sets is NOT the same as 2 utility sets. Utility skills and weapon skills are completely different. Not to mention the healing skill.

And still you fail to notice that other classes can customize and arrange utility skills.
1 Revenant utility set is NOT 1 Thief utility set. Revenants needs 2 utility sets to be somewhat competitive with a normal utility set.

And still you fail to notice that 2 weapon sets on Revenant is not the same as 2 weapon sets on any other class.
Energy dude.

Incoming “just make utility skills as weapon skills”. NO.
Still no customization
Still ele/thief clone

No thanks.
Stop grasping at straws, your whole perception of this class and of this game is flawed.

Let’s continue here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Remove-weapon-swap/page/2#post5337647

Not to be completely off subject yet a bit on at the same time…

Every class can be a button masher if the person playing it doesn’t know how.

I don’t think adding weapon swap or not is going to change anything. In fact you’ll need to pay more attention to the energy you’ve spent rather than mindlessly AAing.