Guild Wars 2

Looking at the traits/skills at this point, I guess unless you are with Jalis or Staff with Centaur, or to a limited extend Mallyx through resistance, you are pretty much done when encountering persistent conditions? Even with Jalis, it’s iffy if you really want to touch the heal skill just to remove conditions. Do we have to sacrifice a sigil slot or constantly switch legends through the trait just to remove conditions.

Meh, I also agreed with you on paper until yesterday, but I now want to see how it works in next BW first. I’ll try Shiro/Glint that has almost 0 condi cleanse on paper, just with Cleansing Channel from Invocation line. Roy says Shiro/Glint is what he’s running now, so I’ll try to trust him and learn to use them before addressing a problem that may not exist.

Glint has that healing skill that basically negates all incoming condition damage for 4 seconds, while Shiro can heal every condition that stacks in duration.
My only concern is long Vulnerability (and multiple stacks) that some mobs put on you, but we have Shield + Cleansing Channel for that.

If you run other options with Glint, like Mallyx, Jalis or Ventari, then you have a lot of cleanse/resistance already.

I’m not saying that it’s fine. I’m just saying I want to check it out first.

It would be nice though to have a more controlled means of condi dumping.

Kidel.2057:

…while Shiro can heal every condition that stacks in duration.

Those are only 3 conditions, and none of them are damaging. If you go Shiro/Glint, you have no clears aside from the trait-on-swap. Might be worth going with runes of generosity or purification; I already use generosity on most of my classes as a counter to mesmers and burn guards.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Kidel.2057:

…while Shiro can heal every condition that stacks in duration.

Those are only 3 conditions, and none of them are damaging. If you go Shiro/Glint, you have no clears aside from the trait-on-swap. Might be worth going with runes of generosity or purification; I already use generosity on most of my classes as a counter to mesmers and burn guards.

As I said, it heals conditions that stack in duration. The context was that you also have Glint healing that basically nullifies every condition that stacks in intensity for 4 seconds, acting almost like a 4 seconds resistance for damaging conditions (except you absorb that damage as healing).

By those runes you actually mean Superior Sigil of Purity (1 condition, chance on hit) and Sigil of Generosity (1 condition transferred to one enemy, chance on critical hit), right?

I don’t like the fact that with those you have no control and that they also trigger when you have no conditions on you, forcing to wait 9-10 seconds when needed. I prefer Superior Sigil of Cleansing, also because it’s triggered by both weaponswap and legendswap on Revenant (basically 2 conditions on legendswap if you also have Cleansing Channel).

I don’t know if it’s going to be needed however (and I hope so, since they are a huge dps loss). I’ll try some dungeons in the next beta and give my review eventually.

You could also try Runes of Lyssa. 5 conditions removed on elite. Should work great with Jalis – 3 condition heal with an elite with stunbreak + 5 conditons removed + 50% damage reduction.

I personally will be using Lyssa+Jalis with Generosity and the invocation trait. It’s not ideal but it should stop me taking 20k confusion damage like in the beta.

That one has a 45 seconds icd however.

Kidel.2057:

That one has a 45 seconds icd however.

It’d probably be a bit too good if it didn’t. Most of the Revs elites don’t have any cooldown at all and we get two of them.

I agree on that, but the fact is that 5 condis every 45 seconds at the price of 50 energy are not so good, plus you give up to a lot of damage. And it’s not like you can save your elite for when you have many conditions, because you usually have to spam it.

And if you already have glint/jalis+channel, then you probably won’t need any more cleanse. Jalis has basically 2, since now hammers will also reduce the effect of damaging conditions.

Kidel.2057:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Kidel.2057:

…while Shiro can heal every condition that stacks in duration.

Those are only 3 conditions, and none of them are damaging. If you go Shiro/Glint, you have no clears aside from the trait-on-swap. Might be worth going with runes of generosity or purification; I already use generosity on most of my classes as a counter to mesmers and burn guards.

As I said, it heals conditions that stack in duration. The context was that you also have Glint healing that basically nullifies every condition that stacks in intensity for 4 seconds, acting almost like a 4 seconds resistance for damaging conditions (except you absorb that damage as healing).

By those runes you actually mean Superior Sigil of Purity (1 condition, chance on hit) and Sigil of Generosity (1 condition transferred to one enemy, chance on critical hit), right?

I don’t like the fact that with those you have no control and that they also trigger when you have no conditions on you, forcing to wait 9-10 seconds when needed. I prefer Superior Sigil of Cleansing, also because it’s triggered by both weaponswap and legendswap on Revenant (basically 2 conditions on legendswap if you also have Cleansing Channel).

I don’t know if it’s going to be needed however (and I hope so, since they are a huge dps loss). I’ll try some dungeons in the next beta and give my review eventually.

Sorry, Purity. I haven’t used it in a while. Yeah, Cleansing is a much better rune, but not available in PvP yet. Generosity is way too expensive outside of PvP, but it’s a lot more useful. Those 15 stacks of burn some guard just applied to you? 1-2 hits and they’re sent right back. Pairs pretty well with Mallyx.

Kidel.2057:

I agree on that, but the fact is that 5 condis every 45 seconds at the price of 50 energy are not so good, plus you give up to a lot of damage. And it’s not like you can save your elite for when you have many conditions, because you usually have to spam it.

And if you already have glint/jalis+channel, then you probably won’t need any more cleanse. Jalis has basically 2, since now hammers will also reduce the effect of damaging conditions.

I think it’s ok. The only reason you’d use 50 energy for it is if you’re stuck on Shiro. Jalis is 40. On Mallyx it’d just be bad but it could cost very little. Ventari has better skills for it and Glint can cost you anywhere from 0-100. I suppose you’re right in the sense that it’s only particularly useful/inexpensive if you run Glint (though I’m pretty sure most people will use Glint at some point).

I agree that you do give up some pretty good damage but at least the runes give precision rather than healing power or something.

I’m pretty sure we could save our elites for when we need both the primary effects and the condition removal most. We do have some options that can at least sustain us for the time being, in theory.

I’d prefer not to use hammers just for cancelling out conditions but yes, you’re totally right in that it could be used for that.

Another option is Hoelbrak runes. It doesn’t exactly give condition removal but the -20% condition reduction sounds decent.

I personally use Shiro or Jalis elite as an opening strike. Lyssa’s effect is used even if you have no conditions, meaning you have to save your elites and you can’t open with them or use them offensively.
Of course it’s similar with Sigil of Cleansing, but you can use it more often and you’re sure it’s used everytime you legenswap on that weapon.

With Lyssa you’d have to bet everytime. That rune is meant for elite skills with long cd, so that it’s always a proc.

Also only Facet of Chaos 2nd effect has a cd, not the upkeep. If you legendswap or run out of energy you have no cd on the next upkeep activation. And I believe that the first effect is the one that triggers the rune.

Kidel.2057:

I personally use Shiro or Jalis elite as an opening strike. Lyssa’s effect is used even if you have no conditions, meaning you have to save your elites and you can’t open with them or use them offensively.
Of course it’s similar with Sigil of Cleansing, but you can use it more often and you’re sure it’s used everytime you legenswap on that weapon.

With Lyssa you’d have to bet everytime. That rune is meant for elite skills with long cd, so that it’s always a proc.

Also only Facet of Chaos 2nd effect has a cd, not the upkeep. If you legendswap or run out of energy you have no cd on the next upkeep activation. And I believe that the first effect is the one that triggers the rune.

Well, like I said, if you’re not using Glint, it’s not that amazing. I get that Shiro’s elite is used very offensively but once you’re in the thick of a fight, you’re not going to be using Jalis’ to apply pressure. So, if you’re using Shiro and Jalis together, it’d be best if you attempted to time any bursts and offensive play until after you’ve dealt with the pressure being applied to you. Basically, try to use Jalis’ elite and any necessary healing > switch > go nuts with jade wind or something.

Sigil of cleansing is awesome but I guess I was mostly talking within the parameters of PvP where it can’t be used. Otherwise yes, it’s definitely a good alternative.

I guess ultimately it comes down to how you play – whether you’re focused on good timing and counter play (waiting for the perfect time for your elite) or forcing the opponent/s to react to you (in which case you’re 100% right, Lyssa would not be a great option).

Also, if I may, why do you use Jade Winds first thing in a fight? You end up with no energy which means you’re not going to be able to take full advantage of it and that’s if they don’t immediately stunbreak (since they’ll most likely have all their stunbreaks ready to go when beginning a fight). So that could leave you with low energy against an opponent who’s probably immediately ready to take advantage of that. I mean there’s probably something I haven’t considered here but I’m just curious.

I don’t get what you’re saying with the Chaos Facet thing. If you activate the primary elite, you get the Lyssa proc and then the energy cost depends on how long you go without activating the secondary effect so the cost ends up being 0 if you activate it immediately after and goes up from there.

Yes you could literally just double tap Facet of Chaos to get the Lyssa proc at essentially 0 energy and almost the same effect with Mallyx.

So the consensus is Lyssa or nothing?

Hooglese.4860:

So the consensus is Lyssa or nothing?

No not at all. There are several options.

Revenant seems to be similar to thief good in combat mobility while lacking strong condition removal.

I just think Lyssa cd is too long compared to our elite cd.

If you do the math, Lyssa is 10 condis every 90 seconds, while sigil of cleansing is 9 every 90 seconds, so no big difference on cleansing throughput.

The differences are that cleansing gives more control, being on only 1 weapon and more often activated (meaning it’s probably ready when you meed it, and you can avoid activation when not needed many times), and you give up to far less damage. It’s 1 sigil over 4 on the secondary weaponset.

Lyssa makes you give up to rune of str or rune of rage (100% fury uptime from that also allows to use cleansing channel for 1 more condi cleansed, and gives 40% crit rate and 12% damage).

Ps: I know glint has a fury upkeep, but we’re not staying in glint stance all the time (legendswapvis still the best way to maximize energy generation). Also rune of fury allows to stack fury while in glint stance and bring 5+ seconds in the other stance (being over 11 seconds if you have invocation).

there should be traits that go:
“remove a condition when using a stance” or
“remove a condition if energy fall below a threshold” or
“remove X conditions if energy reaches zero” or
“attack that cost energy has X chance to remove a condition” with ICD <10s