Guild Wars 2

I’m a big fan of theorycrafting, and then roaming in wvw with my crafted builds, but Rev seriously lacks build diversity. With that I mean that any condi rev WILL have to run that stupid main hand mace because there’s no other choice (why?). COMPETITIVE dueling power builds WILL run sword/shield, staff… glint will always be picked, for the shield and that facet on top (even if you don’t use the actual legend). retribution will also always be picked when you’re not trying to max out your damage (=pve), for that stabi on dodge etc.. ventari and salvation are ONLY worth it when using healing power. etc etc.

the lists of builds I made or found somewhere (for dueling) goes as follows:

-power shiro/glind hammer rev (not that strong but bursty as hell)
-power shiro/glind dueling rev (staff, sword/shield) w. retribution
-condi malyx standard build with varying types of armor

-eventually -> tanky jalis/ventari backline healer (?) rev which is not a dueling build so I don’t really care

let’s compare it to ranger/druid (technically my main):

here we go:

-power pew pew standard
-power pew pew with sword/dagger
-power pew pew standard with survival skills (traitline)
-power pew pew with signets (works very well)
-power pew pew bm shout (less strong, bc shouts are meh mostly)
-(power pew pew spirit support) <- not for dueling
-power semi cleric lb s/d wit signet of stone and double cat
-PotatoVeg’s power pew pew with trapper runes and traps (strangely strong)
-power melee semi tank shouts bm
-power melee shouts trooper rune & survival
-survival bleed sb s/d, sb s/t, sb a/t or sb a/d, with high crit chance and corresponding traits in marksmanship, survival and bm
-survival tanky a/t s/d with sun spirit (aka. glad build)
-trapper bursty woodenpotatoes-ish
-trapper tanky with trapper runes etc. (well known build)
-apothecary semishout condi a/d, s/t with regen. signet and lr, very tanky and very strong
-druid glyph cleric marksmanship etc. build (very very strong)
-druid celestial standard might stacking build
-druid undying trapper troll build (strong as f)
-druid survival, druid signet etc etc just add druid to anything it all works in some way
-you can swap so many things (TRAITS!!!!, ARMOR, some skills, whole weapon sets, etc.) in these builds and believe me when I say they are all very strong if played right!

this is just a fraction of possible builds.. now let’s go back to rev: -> no customizability of the utility skills -> big nope, ventari and jalis are basically useless when dueling, jalis MAY find its niche somewhere. So it’s ALWAYS between malyx/shiro, malyx/glint or shiro/glint…. very boring, it’s even worse when you look at the weapon choices… very sad imo.

Well now that they are nerfing the trait that was carrying rev’s and making them viable/op at the same time, maybe now they can see that the class is severely lacking when it completely drops from the meta, or general use at all.

Double Rev is still a force to be reckoned with. Almost no class/spec can survive against that much condi pressure for more than a few seconds when being focused.

Chip Skylark.2367:

Double Rev is still a force to be reckoned with. Almost no class/spec can survive against that much condi pressure for more than a few seconds when being focused.

but…that’s the same as a ton of other specs…

…rev can use most of the skills at it’s disposal in builds, except ventari.
that’s already really good in variety…
like you can go mallyx glint, you do well, mallyx shiro, you do well, shiro glint, you do well, dwarf glint you do well,
sword is great, shield is great, mace is great, axe is great, staff is great, hammer is great

now you look at other classes.

I think Glint is simply too strong and hampering build choices. for being too much of a must pick. Which means your versatility goes in the toilet, because you are welded to Glint for one of your two legend choices.
Id dearly love to see Jalis become more of a viable choice outside of his traitline alone.

LucianDK.8615:

I think Glint is simply too strong and hampering build choices. for being too much of a must pick. Which means your versatility goes in the toilet, because you are welded to Glint for one of your two legend choices.
Id dearly love to see Jalis become more of a viable choice outside of his traitline alone.

Eh, I think Glint is really good, but I don’t think it’s too strong. I just pick Glint because, aside from Shiro, no other legend works so well for so many situations. It’s a very versatile Legend while Jalis doesn’t have much support at all and wants to facetank stuff (and you almost always have two skills that are almost completely worthless in some game mode), Mallyx has a billion issues and Ventari is WAY too focused on healing others with not much support, barely any Control, and bad self-sustain for a lot more work.

The problem is the whole class in its entirely just fails vs condi bombs. Resistance spam was carrying this class vs condi’s and even then it was only really viable with support. Now , still very little in the way of removing condis, and now very little to resist them too. Not going to last.

I would like to point out. That the vast majority of the builds you posted in the OP. Aren’t viable either due to revenants, tempests, or ironicallly enough druids. As such atleast as far as PvP goes they can’t really be counted in build diversity.

Edit: What I mean is. You can post as many possible builds and attach names to them as you wan’t. But if there so massively inferior they aren’t taken in ANY competitive environment. Then they can’t truly be considered potential builds for actual use. As many of them have critical failings that the majority of meta builds easily access.

As far as PvE goes. I think herald is kind of limiting the class. It is just too kitten amazing. Combine that with the support legend being…sub par compared to tempest and druid and the fact that revenants primary condi relies on movement. And you have an issue. Almost all power revs have there build decided for them. Nearly all condi revs lack a place. And support revs don’t really exist except in niche situations and compositions. (they work just fine. But not as well as others and they give up too much)

I’m talking about wvw roaming though, and dueling, not pvp, I don’t care about pvp, there’s always going to be a limiting meta there anyways. Most of the ranger builds I posted are great for duels and they all work.

LucianDK.8615:

I think Glint is simply too strong and hampering build choices. for being too much of a must pick. Which means your versatility goes in the toilet, because you are welded to Glint for one of your two legend choices.
Id dearly love to see Jalis become more of a viable choice outside of his traitline alone.

Literally this. If other legends offered as much as Glint did, you wouldn’t be seeing Glint as often.

LucianDK.8615:

I think Glint is simply too strong and hampering build choices. for being too much of a must pick. Which means your versatility goes in the toilet, because you are welded to Glint for one of your two legend choices.
Id dearly love to see Jalis become more of a viable choice outside of his traitline alone.

Glint feels pretty balanced to me, it’s the base legends other than shiro that need a little extra.

However I think the best thing they could do for Rev is add a 4th utility to each legend so there is a second level of choice in utility skills.

I don’t think glint is too strong; I think other specs are either too weak (Jalis), or too specialized (Ventari). I would love it if they opened up things a little, or at least tinkered with some things like the incredible energy cost in Jalis. to use Jalis as an example again, I feel like just changing those costs would change a lot about that spec.

Amethyst Lure.5624:

I don’t think glint is too strong; I think other specs are either too weak (Jalis), or too specialized (Ventari).

This is pretty much how I feel.

Shiro and Glint are great and versatile enough to be used in many specs, and Mallyx is (or was) good enough to be powerful in its own right.

I think other stances need to be brought up to Shiro’s and Glint’s level. If they’re specialized, make them good in their own right; if they’re too weak, buff them.

castem.5936:

Amethyst Lure.5624:

I don’t think glint is too strong; I think other specs are either too weak (Jalis), or too specialized (Ventari).

This is pretty much how I feel.

Shiro and Glint are great and versatile enough to be used in many specs, and Mallyx is (or was) good enough to be powerful in its own right.

I think other stances need to be brought up to Shiro’s and Glint’s level. If they’re specialized, make them good in their own right; if they’re too weak, buff them.

Pretty much this. Glint offers boons which are universal to, I dare say, every aspect of the game. They also come with secondary attacks, though that is the only niche portion of the Legend.

Shiro falls under the same boat.
-Decent heal + Damage boost
-Stunbreak/Evade/Mild condi clear bundled into a skill
-Shadowstep + unblockable following attacks
-Quickness + Super speed
-PBAoE Stun

Once again, you have a Legend whose set of skills can be used in multiple aspects of the game.

The other Legends are good but only in their niche situations.

I don’t think it’s the stance that’s too strong, but the traitline. Herald has too many amazing traits that synergize too well with everything Revenants have to offer. There are top tier builds that don’t use dragon stance (Shiro/Mallyx) but none without Herald. In particular, facet of nature and shield offer too much to every single other stance and build that they’re choking out other builds.

OneWordName.3761:

I don’t think it’s the stance that’s too strong, but the traitline. Herald has too many amazing traits that synergize too well with everything Revenants have to offer. There are top tier builds that don’t use dragon stance (Shiro/Mallyx) but none without Herald. In particular, facet of nature and shield offer too much to every single other stance and build that they’re choking out other builds.

I’d say it’s Shield’s sustain and FoN’s boon duration along with the fact that Corruption is kinda confused, Salvation is WAY too focused on healing others, and Invocation, while being pretty nice, is kinda too focused on Fury and micro-managing Energy for lackluster results (and the GMs aside from Roiling Mists are pretty meh). Retribution just makes you into a tank, Devastation is a huge damage increase (and some sustain) while Herald is all-around good for any build (although I don’t like how passive Soothing Bastion is) although it’s mostly because of Shield and FoN.

Ironically, I think rev has better build diversity than most of the other classes in the game.
Theres 2-3 viable rev pvp builds with variations on eachother, meanwhile something like tempest or dragonhunter or druid really only has one viable option to be competitive.

nearlight.3064:

Ironically, I think rev has better build diversity than most of the other classes in the game.
Theres 2-3 viable rev pvp builds with variations on eachother, meanwhile something like tempest or dragonhunter or druid really only has one viable option to be competitive.

I don’t agree with this at all. The Esports meta is only malyx/shiro. It IS true that there are 2-3 STRONG rev builds, but there are a ton of viable STRONG ranger builds too (alot more in fact). Druid META has 2 builds at least (cele might stack, MoC cleric)

but I wasn’t even talking about pvp as I said multiple times, I’m talking about viable wvw roaming/dueling builds

arnitheking.8427:

nearlight.3064:

Ironically, I think rev has better build diversity than most of the other classes in the game.
Theres 2-3 viable rev pvp builds with variations on eachother, meanwhile something like tempest or dragonhunter or druid really only has one viable option to be competitive.

I don’t agree with this at all. The Esports meta is only malyx/shiro. It IS true that there are 2-3 STRONG rev builds, but there are a ton of viable STRONG ranger builds too (alot more in fact). Druid META has 2 builds at least (cele might stack, MoC cleric)

but I wasn’t even talking about pvp as I said multiple times, I’m talking about viable wvw roaming/dueling builds

Well who cares about that? Most WvW players would be instafood if they tried to enter a real pvp match.

nearlight.3064:

arnitheking.8427:

nearlight.3064:

Ironically, I think rev has better build diversity than most of the other classes in the game.
Theres 2-3 viable rev pvp builds with variations on eachother, meanwhile something like tempest or dragonhunter or druid really only has one viable option to be competitive.

I don’t agree with this at all. The Esports meta is only malyx/shiro. It IS true that there are 2-3 STRONG rev builds, but there are a ton of viable STRONG ranger builds too (alot more in fact). Druid META has 2 builds at least (cele might stack, MoC cleric)

but I wasn’t even talking about pvp as I said multiple times, I’m talking about viable wvw roaming/dueling builds

Well who cares about that? Most WvW players would be instafood if they tried to enter a real pvp match.

Such a dumb statement…

Funny thing I happen to know a lot of the top players (even esl players) who were hard core wvw players.

nearlight.3064:

Well who cares about that? Most WvW players would be instafood if they tried to enter a real pvp match.

Who cares about PvP when the game is considered a joke as a competitive game, and which has about 5 teams in the entire world who can play to a decent standard, where the rest of the teams and try-hards are so poor they would be “instafood” if the game had a decent sized competitive playerbase.

Malchior.5732:

Chip Skylark.2367:

Double Rev is still a force to be reckoned with. Almost no class/spec can survive against that much condi pressure for more than a few seconds when being focused.

but…that’s the same as a ton of other specs…

No it’s not lol. The only thing that comes close is condi reaper and they don’t have even 1/4th of the evades/blocks/mobility/healing of Rev

Chip Skylark.2367:

Malchior.5732:

Chip Skylark.2367:

Double Rev is still a force to be reckoned with. Almost no class/spec can survive against that much condi pressure for more than a few seconds when being focused.

but…that’s the same as a ton of other specs…

No it’s not lol. The only thing that comes close is condi reaper and they don’t have even 1/4th of the evades/blocks/mobility/healing of Rev

You’re saying that 2x of a class can wreck people.
That’s true for tons of specs.

Its either power shiro glint or condi demon glint. And lets be clear, glint healing is ok, and only in pvp. the other healing is extremely situation and luck luster.

I can’t help but recall the one thing Revenants were made specifically for…..OH YEAH, HERE’S A QUOTE:

“Channel legendary powers to slaughter foes and unleash chaos on the battlefield”
……………..‘to slaughter foes and unleash chaos’
………….slaughter foes and …chaos

Though, the only other option I can see as far as being a support would be to get some healing power and run ventari, or toughness and run retribution. Again remember that the focus of the class is as described as whats in the bold letters of this post, probably should have read that before making the class huh?

I enjoyed this class ankitten ow trying out a Shiro, Demon build. I was looking forward to using Glint and after I used it for a while I did enjoy it, but it feels like such a lazy spec as you will more than likely will just be running round with 2 – 3 facets on (The heal one sucked and especially so with the regen or if you are taking damage from a single foe and not many to convert their damage into heals) and not intending to activate them.

But everything you see for Rev builds always has Glint, always has shield and it feels like such a limited class as Glint seems to be the only way to go if you wanna go far with Rev.

They should rework the shield skill, it is supposed to be used with Herald as a support so instead of giving it a good amount of heals maybe you apply damage protection to people around the shield?

As people are using it solely for healing when it is, as far as the class goes, supposed to work as a type of support.

Leave the healing to Ventari builds.

And onto the class diversity as a whole, when making my Shiro/Demon build the specs are almost entirely dedicated to a certain legend, they need to add in some more base specs so you have more build posibilities as right now it seems to be Glint + x Legend (Most of the time it is Shiro)

I hope they nerf the shield or rework it to be support focused and need self heal because the facet isn’t cutting it xD

I can only agree about Herald feeling like a lazy spec. You spend most of your time autoattacking because you cant really use any skills due to upkeep punishment. Mobs rarely live long enough make you roll into shiro before they are dead. Revs felt so much more active when they mainly relied on shiro during leveling.

But i think the limited skillsets of legends is the problem, since you are locked to predefined sets. And you only can have 2 legends at once. Though I agree that Glint is overfocused on being a boonbot, and doing it too well, hence feeling forced to take it.

My unlikely wish is that they would redesign Glint away from the boring boonbot spec. Make facet of elements make you channel dragonfire around you as a pbaoe effect and causing chill and burning. But costing more upkeep pips to keep it distinct from Jalis’ hammers. That would make glint really appealing for Mallyx!

Im fairly meh about the shield. Crystal hibernation roots you in place, and the heal is not that strong. Axe gives you a strong shadowstep, giving you a gapcloser that isnt locked to shiro stance.

Rev just needs a 4th utility skill for each legend so that there’s a second layer of choice and variety.

I am wondering if the Revenant is basically a dead toon in lore since that is all they are good at. Now I know this is a blunt statement. But seriously I have 3 of every other profession and the Rev is pretty much useless in HOT content. Everyone else can fight things out. The Rev seems to just die.
So I guess what I am asking and saying is…..the Rev is seriously a dead profession. As in the character you create is already dead since they seem to love going back.
Would love to know how to build a toon that does not die every step of the way. And if it is just one way to make them. Then this needs to be tweaked.
I started playing this game and fell off. Then I started playing all new content that was coming up. The story and how it is done. Way better. The new specialties are great. The Mastery system is nice. Keep going in that direction with great content and amazing boss fights. As well as great story telling. ( yeah you get yelled at for spoilers).
But please do something about the Rev in PVE content. They just die all day long.

I said it before HOT release.. Glint is a boring boonbot. Jalis is fun but completely unviable however i still use him sometimes to pull ppl off wall with taunt.. bad bad Jalis. I wish to have another legend with mobility tho so i can put Shiro with his fail PT (90% fail rate) to sand.

Burtnik.5218:

I said it before HOT release.. Glint is a boring boonbot. Jalis is fun but completely unviable however i still use him sometimes to pull ppl off wall with taunt.. bad bad Jalis. I wish to have another legend with mobility tho so i can put Shiro with his fail PT (90% fail rate) to sand.

cant wait for more of your cry spam in this subforum. Really helps shape the future of this class. Always a good read 5/7

Child Of The Aesir.8762:

I am wondering if the Revenant is basically a dead toon in lore since that is all they are good at. Now I know this is a blunt statement. But seriously I have 3 of every other profession and the Rev is pretty much useless in HOT content. Everyone else can fight things out. The Rev seems to just die.
So I guess what I am asking and saying is…..the Rev is seriously a dead profession. As in the character you create is already dead since they seem to love going back.
Would love to know how to build a toon that does not die every step of the way. And if it is just one way to make them. Then this needs to be tweaked.
I started playing this game and fell off. Then I started playing all new content that was coming up. The story and how it is done. Way better. The new specialties are great. The Mastery system is nice. Keep going in that direction with great content and amazing boss fights. As well as great story telling. ( yeah you get yelled at for spoilers).
But please do something about the Rev in PVE content. They just die all day long.

I don’t know the kind of players you’ve been meeting but I’ve been doing just fine in PvE as a Revy.

it could be that the players you meet are not adapted to Revy’s game play style being the reason why the players you meet die a lot as Revy.

Herald is a good buff keep legend but the only Facet a Revy should be upkeeping in combat is Facet of Darkness for the perm Fury.

Facet of Element is used only when you’re not in combat for the extra swiftness when exploring and during combat a Revy should be using Elemental Blast as a attack.

Facet of Strength is something that shouldn’t be used much since the Herald Tree hass a Trait to stack might for each buff added already so combat wise Burst of Strength should be used instead during combat.

Facet of Chaos is rarely used for the protection buff unless it is for that Oh S**** moments when you’re about to take heavy damage so it is often used for Chaotic Release to break the CC bar on enemies/bosses.

Facet of Light is often used for Infuse light when you’re going into melee range when you know the enemies hit hard in melee or there is a lot of melee enemies. Keeping a Melee weapon/Hammer is the best way to handle engagements in PvE since when a Revy enters melee combat they will want Infuse Light ready if enemies start hitting too hard in melee and when Infuse Light hits cooldown the Revy should back off and switch to hammer until either the Mallyx, Shiro, or Glint Legend healing skill is back up then get back into melee range with Mallyx or Shiro healing skills used for the first melee engagement then Infuse Light as the sustain to stay in melee combat a bit longer then back off back into range combat with Hammer.

Switching to other Legends in a Mallyx/Glint or Shiro/Glint combo is rather important in combat. For a Mallyx/Glint combo they want to switch between Mallyx and Glint for the two healing skills and from Mallyx the Revy should “Embrace the Darkness” and once the energy is out in Mallyx switch back to Glint and turn on Facet of Darkness and use both Burst of Strength, Chaotic Release, and Elemental Blast as attacks. For Shiro it is the same but use Impossible Odds with Enchanted Dagger to do you’re burst damage or if you need a extra stun to break those CC bar or hold off enemies a bit longer then use Jade Wind then use Enchanted Dagger for the extra damage and upkeep the Revy’s HP for a bit longer and once back to 50% energy or higher use Impossible Odds for the burst damage.

With only Facet of Darkness as the only upkeep providing both Fury and Might (Trait) the Revy player should always have plenty of energy to use for their weapon skills during their Glint Stance in combat.

Not all enemies should be engaged in melee range due to their heavy hitting attacks which is where the Hammer comes in to help keep a distance from the more dangerous enemies. If any engagement gets too dangerous then backing off and switching to hammer to handle the fight will make it far less risking. Getting Field of the Mist up after backing off is important since it serves as a projectile blocker and adds life steal to your range attacks.

Revenant was originally designed to be a single weapon class, which is why we have so many utilities at once, but lack in depth on weapon skills.

That design was hotfixed in public beta from complaints, but never made up for like the normal weapon swap classes.

This is why we have so few weapons to pick from, leaving few options to make a build for.

This is why I say, Anet need to give us either more BASELINE Weapons, or more LEGEND UTILITY SKILLS to pick from instead of preset design.

Ive been thinking. Unlike the baseline professions, the Revenant never had years of living without an elite spec. The designers then going overboard with blinging up Herald and dragonstance with the top abilities and traits there.

Thusly resulting in the feeling of the Herald simply being too good to sit without, as the core revenant lines simply isnt good enough to stand on their own without herald.

If they ever introduce more elite specs, and they keep the max 1 elite spec limitation, I wonder how they can entice people to take it over what Herald offers due to Herald being such a force multiplier. Also hard to imagine that premades will allow revs to run anything but herald due to how facet of nature makes so many classes so much stronger.

You wont take anything but herald 4ever in current state. Thats why herald need some nerfs while core needs a buff to the useless traits and weak abilities and actually make em interesing. Atm herald = arcane line which is mandatory for ele.

Pretty much that, with only Shiro out of the base legends being in a good state, the Revenant have plenty of room for development. Which I hope the end of january patch will help with, hopefully the devs posts a preview soon.

I would love to play more with Mallyx in pve, but it just doesnt stack up to Shiro.

nearlight.3064:

Ironically, I think rev has better build diversity than most of the other classes in the game.
Theres 2-3 viable rev pvp builds with variations on eachother, meanwhile something like tempest or dragonhunter or druid really only has one viable option to be competitive.

For pvp specific rev only has 2
Condi rev and Power rev the other 2 elite is suicide or just sad in PVP.

Tempest does have more, that I do know. And can confirm this in metabattle.com.

As for DH & Druid, I can’t speak for them as much, but I do know that Rev’s lack of weapons were supposed to be made up in more utilities, current 2 of our elites are not viable options in pvp

lighter.2708:

…rev can use most of the skills at it’s disposal in builds, except ventari.
that’s already really good in variety…
like you can go mallyx glint, you do well, mallyx shiro, you do well, shiro glint, you do well, dwarf glint you do well,
sword is great, shield is great, mace is great, axe is great, staff is great, hammer is great

now you look at other classes.

agreed. I’d rather have a handful of good options rather than a bunch of crap in the mix. The entire class concept of revenant is revolved around having sets of skills that work together , rather than individual skills, this is why a lot of them seem to be superior to most other utility skills. They lack the flexibility so they have to be effective.

The class went through some major changes in beta. Time to abandon some more of the outdated concepts.
examples:

1) the Lack of Weapon Choices- worked for when we had no weapon swap. But we do now. Why we still have so few options?

2) the lack of Legends baseline- not all play styles work in every mode. so why lock legends into certain roles/playstyles? that reduce the number of choices to pick from. Who picks Ventari for SPvP, for example?

3) Energy system and Cool Downs- with weapon swap, and the way legends work, why we have both high energy cost on non-dps legends and cooldowns? Also the Weapons that associate with the legend’s traitline also have high energy cost. WHY?

Keep in mind, rev is forced into herald just as much as guardian, mesmer and EVERY OTHER CLASS is forced into their elite specs.

Now as fair as legend use is concerned, yes, ventari is institutional and dwarf is kinda bad. a lot of traits are kinda bad and half the elites are not worth using…BUT most other classes have the same problem (guardian is probably in a worse spot AND pushed further into trash tier)

Hunter.4783:

Keep in mind, rev is forced into herald just as much as guardian, mesmer and EVERY OTHER CLASS is forced into their elite specs.

Now as fair as legend use is concerned, yes, ventari is institutional and dwarf is kinda bad. a lot of traits are kinda bad and half the elites are not worth using…BUT most other classes have the same problem (guardian is probably in a worse spot AND pushed further into trash tier)

Revenant isn’t an old class, so you’d think they wouldn’t repeat mistakes, or at least not as badly.

arnitheking.8427:

I’m a big fan of theorycrafting, and then roaming in wvw with my crafted builds, but Rev seriously lacks build diversity. With that I mean that any condi rev WILL have to run that stupid main hand mace because there’s no other choice (why?). COMPETITIVE dueling power builds WILL run sword/shield, staff… glint will always be picked, for the shield and that facet on top (even if you don’t use the actual legend). retribution will also always be picked when you’re not trying to max out your damage (=pve), for that stabi on dodge etc.. ventari and salvation are ONLY worth it when using healing power. etc etc.

the lists of builds I made or found somewhere (for dueling) goes as follows:

-power shiro/glind hammer rev (not that strong but bursty as hell)
-power shiro/glind dueling rev (staff, sword/shield) w. retribution
-condi malyx standard build with varying types of armor

-eventually -> tanky jalis/ventari backline healer (?) rev which is not a dueling build so I don’t really care

let’s compare it to ranger/druid (technically my main):

here we go:

-power pew pew standard
-power pew pew with sword/dagger
-power pew pew standard with survival skills (traitline)
-power pew pew with signets (works very well)
-power pew pew bm shout (less strong, bc shouts are meh mostly)
-(power pew pew spirit support) <- not for dueling
-power semi cleric lb s/d wit signet of stone and double cat
-PotatoVeg’s power pew pew with trapper runes and traps (strangely strong)
-power melee semi tank shouts bm
-power melee shouts trooper rune & survival
-survival bleed sb s/d, sb s/t, sb a/t or sb a/d, with high crit chance and corresponding traits in marksmanship, survival and bm
-survival tanky a/t s/d with sun spirit (aka. glad build)
-trapper bursty woodenpotatoes-ish
-trapper tanky with trapper runes etc. (well known build)
-apothecary semishout condi a/d, s/t with regen. signet and lr, very tanky and very strong
-druid glyph cleric marksmanship etc. build (very very strong)
-druid celestial standard might stacking build
-druid undying trapper troll build (strong as f)
-druid survival, druid signet etc etc just add druid to anything it all works in some way
-you can swap so many things (TRAITS!!!!, ARMOR, some skills, whole weapon sets, etc.) in these builds and believe me when I say they are all very strong if played right!

this is just a fraction of possible builds.. now let’s go back to rev: -> no customizability of the utility skills -> big nope, ventari and jalis are basically useless when dueling, jalis MAY find its niche somewhere. So it’s ALWAYS between malyx/shiro, malyx/glint or shiro/glint…. very boring, it’s even worse when you look at the weapon choices… very sad imo.

You compare it to druid.

compare it to thief or necro or warrior or engi.

Hunter.4783:

Keep in mind, rev is forced into herald just as much as guardian, mesmer and EVERY OTHER CLASS is forced into their elite specs.

Now as fair as legend use is concerned, yes, ventari is institutional and dwarf is kinda bad. a lot of traits are kinda bad and half the elites are not worth using…BUT most other classes have the same problem (guardian is probably in a worse spot AND pushed further into trash tier)

This basically. The Elite specs are very likely intentional power creep. They were introduced with the idea that they’re the new baseline, to be balanced against future Elite specs. This is how they can keep adding more and more skills to the core classes without turning into the huge mess GW1’s skill pool eventually did.

The Herald absolutely is a must-have right now, in particular for PvE. Glint pretty much completely outshines Jalis in a lot of instances in PvE and even sometimes Ventari. Ideally the next Elite spec will be just as attractive and since you can’t have two Elite legends at once, Jalis will seem more viable as a companion.

Though at the same time, I think it can be reasonably debated about whether they succeeded in this design direction and whether Rev’s core class has the same depth and dimension as the core classes that were part of this game for years now. All I can say is that I’m willing to bet ArenaNet is very grateful to have you all discussing this.

You will always pick up Shiro over Jalis due to mobility unless next elite spec will have a decent access to mobility as well. For me its kinda sad that i am forced into herald to be competive. Sure, i can faceroll noobs with base rev but thats about it. Elite specs should be alternative playstyles/expanding a role but not mandatory like they are now.

Were at the point where builds matters much more than invidual skill