Guild Wars 2

ok so I’ve tried to figure out a reasonable way to say this and I haven’t come up with one so here we go. I feel like the creative team at anet told it’s development team “we need a new class so we can have one for the expansion” and the response by the dev team was “ok but we aren’t adding anything new that will require balancing” and from this conversation we got the revenant. at first I was excited when I heard about revenant it sounded like a great idea. an ancestral spirit warrior. but where I lost all interest was on the first beta that I saw how they actually functioned. nothing is customizable. it’s like one gigantic cookie cutter character(that is to say it will have VERY limited build variety) no setable skills? I really mean this as a question and not a complaint. What were they thinking? build variety to me is sacred and the game should constantly be trying to expand this base. I miss dual classing from gw1, I miss the way people could invent their own builds and how with each update what those builds were changed. with no customization options in this class I have little reason to play it. please if you tried revenant and you actually enjoyed your play time on it. tell me why with specifics. sadly I saw a character class that couldn’t be personalized. anet can do better then this and should do better then this. also if this forum is being observed I would love to hear from a dev team member the logic behind this classes design.

i have no idea what you trying to say.

Elpredator.8523:

i have no idea what you trying to say.

He’s basically saying that you can’t change your utilities and he doesn’t like that.

I think what OP is trying to say is that the lack of utility skill options hinders the class for being diverse, every revenant will more or less be the same. I say this is not so true because every class has utility skills that have been favored pretty much since release while having utlity skills that are subpar and have stayed so. It doesnt help having 20 utility skills when only 5 are wanted.

He then goes on claiming that Anet has over time removed the ability to make unique builds, but in reality I think theyve only made it better since theyve slotted alot of traits together to make more sense now, while still having the ability to go 3 vast different roles (like in current trait tiers).

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elpredator.8523:

i have no idea what you trying to say.

He’s basically saying that you can’t change your utilities and he doesn’t like that.

or any of the skills. like if they wanted to lock out customization on the utility skills then they should have made it have slotable weapons skills or something. this is literally the only class in the game that can’t be modified by the user. I think it sets a dangerous precedent of character classes that are prebalanced.

Warlock.7136:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elpredator.8523:

i have no idea what you trying to say.

He’s basically saying that you can’t change your utilities and he doesn’t like that.

or any of the skills. like if they wanted to lock out customization on the utility skills then they should have made it have slotable weapons skills or something. this is literally the only class in the game that can’t be modified by the user. I think it sets a dangerous precedent of character classes that are prebalanced.

Are you the incarnation of the veterans that have stopped playing this game? It looks like it given your topics.
@topic even though utilities can’t be customized being able to select 2 sets and having quite a few traitlines with synergy beyond their chosen legend revs have a decent amount of customization.

nacario.9417:

I think what OP is trying to say is that the lack of utility skill options hinders the class for being diverse, every revenant will more or less be the same. I say this is not so true because every class has utility skills that have been favored pretty much since release while having utlity skills that are subpar and have stayed so. It doesnt help having 20 utility skills when only 5 are wanted.

He then goes on claiming that Anet has over time removed the ability to make unique builds, but in reality I think theyve only made it better since theyve slotted alot of traits together to make more sense now, while still having the ability to go 3 vast different roles (like in current trait tiers).

sort of. yes I am saying that the lack of utility skill slotting hinders the class diversity and yes I think we will end up with maybe 3 revenant builds or so in the end the way it is. yes I am saying going from dual classing to single class also limited the build variety. but I could care less what other players “want” I have never built characters that way. although the last feature pack killed off literally 16 of my characters builds as no longer in game(removal of skills/traits necessary for them) this is not what I am speaking of. what I am saying is that this is our first expansion and our first new class which shows us where anet is heading. and if anet is heading the game towards characters that the player has no control over then I think it is the wrong direction. it’s like they took the idea of how sometimes in the storyline you play a character with skills that are locked and not your own and turned it into a character class. being moaed by a Mesmer is annoying. playing the moa on purpose…just loses me on why they would design a class to do that. so I am asking if you feel I have misunderstood the class concept PLEASE help me understand how a player can use this class as anything but a lobotomized zombie asking for change.

Varezenem.2813:

Warlock.7136:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elpredator.8523:

i have no idea what you trying to say.

He’s basically saying that you can’t change your utilities and he doesn’t like that.

or any of the skills. like if they wanted to lock out customization on the utility skills then they should have made it have slotable weapons skills or something. this is literally the only class in the game that can’t be modified by the user. I think it sets a dangerous precedent of character classes that are prebalanced.

Are you the incarnation of the veterans that have stopped playing this game? It looks like it given your topics.
@topic even though utilities can’t be customized being able to select 2 sets and having quite a few traitlines with synergy beyond their chosen legend revs have a decent amount of customization.

this is not customization. this is an ele shifting elements. if you can’t slot what skills that legend counts as then you are just shifting between premade builds. it’s like the entire class has training wheels on it. I want to take off the training wheels strap some rockets and brass wheel coverings add a paintjob, install a nuclear power source and ride the bike that way. I don’t want to ride a 5 speed factory bike, shift to a factory 21 speed,shift to a factory dirt bike.

Warlock.7136:

Varezenem.2813:

Warlock.7136:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elpredator.8523:

i have no idea what you trying to say.

He’s basically saying that you can’t change your utilities and he doesn’t like that.

or any of the skills. like if they wanted to lock out customization on the utility skills then they should have made it have slotable weapons skills or something. this is literally the only class in the game that can’t be modified by the user. I think it sets a dangerous precedent of character classes that are prebalanced.

Are you the incarnation of the veterans that have stopped playing this game? It looks like it given your topics.
@topic even though utilities can’t be customized being able to select 2 sets and having quite a few traitlines with synergy beyond their chosen legend revs have a decent amount of customization.

this is not customization. this is an ele shifting elements. if you can’t slot what skills that legend counts as then you are just shifting between premade builds. it’s like the entire class has training wheels on it. I want to take off the training wheels strap some rockets and brass wheel coverings add a paintjob, install a nuclear power source and ride the bike that way. I don’t want to ride a 5 speed factory bike, shift to a factory 21 speed,shift to a factory dirt bike.

Like I said look at traits for customization. I have seen more build diversity on core revenant than most core professions.

I agree with warlock to an extent, in that the utilities cant be changed and the trait lines seem limited, I personally also feel this class lost its identity with the 3rd beta changes and made it more 1 build only, and as for other classes its been the same way since launch that isn’t correct, case in point is the meta Mesmer and thief, way overpowered classes that need major balancing…to me it like every MMO the classes the dev’s like to play stay buffed up why the other classes stay weak, and if my accident the onther classes get to strong due to player genius then they get the nerf stick

Varezenem.2813:

Warlock.7136:

Varezenem.2813:

Warlock.7136:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Elpredator.8523:

i have no idea what you trying to say.

He’s basically saying that you can’t change your utilities and he doesn’t like that.

or any of the skills. like if they wanted to lock out customization on the utility skills then they should have made it have slotable weapons skills or something. this is literally the only class in the game that can’t be modified by the user. I think it sets a dangerous precedent of character classes that are prebalanced.

Are you the incarnation of the veterans that have stopped playing this game? It looks like it given your topics.
@topic even though utilities can’t be customized being able to select 2 sets and having quite a few traitlines with synergy beyond their chosen legend revs have a decent amount of customization.

this is not customization. this is an ele shifting elements. if you can’t slot what skills that legend counts as then you are just shifting between premade builds. it’s like the entire class has training wheels on it. I want to take off the training wheels strap some rockets and brass wheel coverings add a paintjob, install a nuclear power source and ride the bike that way. I don’t want to ride a 5 speed factory bike, shift to a factory 21 speed,shift to a factory dirt bike.

Like I said look at traits for customization. I have seen more build diversity on core revenant than most core professions.

Traits don’t customize the class. traits optimize the class. each legend will have only one optimum set of traits. the traits won’t actually change the way the premade builds work they will just enhance what the premade builds already do. example if a skill says “hit x player for x damage” a trait can say “when you hit x player for x damage x happens also” it doesn’t shift the skill to say “gain swiftness and regeneration” (lame example but it gets the point across) in revenant that skill will always be an attack skill. build variety occurs when you are allowed to mix and match different skills.

All classes come pre made. They just give the illusion of choice.

If you want to run full support/healer for example you’d go

Revenant – glint/ventari

Elementalisit- wants to run a support he runs…staff*. The utilities really won’t matter (except for personal defense.) The other weapon sets kind of work but don’t have water fields so… his build is even more locked in stone (water/arcane/x)

The only REAL choice they give to other classes is the choice for new players to make bad worthless builds.

*I suppose after HoT you will actually have the choice of tempest or standard staff ele for full support/healer. But one could argue rev has about the same amount of choices (vanilla revenant vs herald, staff ventari vs hammer ventari, etc in some ways revs have more choices)

edit: ON TRAITS depends on class. Ele mesmer thief don’t change much with traits but traits can certainly customize some classes. Playing a condi traps shortbow ranger is a heck of a lot different than a beastmaster power longbow ranger for instance. Getting an entirely new ability (pet taunt) is certainly a customization.

Mightybird.6034:

All classes come pre made. They just give the illusion of choice.

If you want to run full support/healer for example you’d go

Revenant – glint/ventari

Elementalisit- wants to run a support he runs…staff*. The utilities really won’t matter (except for personal defense.) The other weapon sets kind of work but don’t have water fields so… his build is even more locked in stone (water/arcane/x)

The only REAL choice they give to other classes is the choice for new players to make bad worthless builds.

*I suppose after HoT you will actually have the choice of tempest or standard staff ele for full support/healer. But one could argue rev has about the same amount of choices (vanilla revenant vs herald, staff ventari vs hammer ventari, etc in some ways revs have more choices)

edit: ON TRAITS depends on class. Ele mesmer thief don’t change much with traits but traits can certainly customize some classes. Playing a condi traps shortbow ranger is a heck of a lot different than a beastmaster power longbow ranger for instance. Getting an entirely new ability (pet taunt) is certainly a customization.

“is the choice to make bad worthless builds” this seems more like a personal opinion on what counts as “worthless” rather then a mathematical fact on build variety. personally I don’t care what the other players around me are using as long as they are having fun. it’s a game, that’s the point of it. this is why I support build variety constantly increasing because the more options a player has in what they are playing the better the chance that they will find something that they consider fun. very min/maxer in attitude with that post.

I too would have liked to be able to customize the utility skills. The legends could have had some other unique mechanic when selected rather than forklifting out the utilities with each legend. That said, I’m game to give the Revenant a shot as it currently is. If forced utilities detracts from the “fun factor” too much, it will eventually get relegated to being a storage mule and I’ll go back to another toon. I’m kind of not thinking that will happen though – I’m optimistic the Revenant will be a fun and effective profession.

I think u kinda need to have pre set skills when u have the ability to the change to 5 new skills with the touch of a button. Plus u can have 5 different legends to choose from so there is some diversity

Mightybird.6034:

All classes come pre made. They just give the illusion of choice.

If you want to run full support/healer for example you’d go

Revenant – glint/ventari

Elementalisit- wants to run a support he runs…staff*. The utilities really won’t matter (except for personal defense.) The other weapon sets kind of work but don’t have water fields so… his build is even more locked in stone (water/arcane/x)

The only REAL choice they give to other classes is the choice for new players to make bad worthless builds.

*I suppose after HoT you will actually have the choice of tempest or standard staff ele for full support/healer. But one could argue rev has about the same amount of choices (vanilla revenant vs herald, staff ventari vs hammer ventari, etc in some ways revs have more choices)

edit: ON TRAITS depends on class. Ele mesmer thief don’t change much with traits but traits can certainly customize some classes. Playing a condi traps shortbow ranger is a heck of a lot different than a beastmaster power longbow ranger for instance. Getting an entirely new ability (pet taunt) is certainly a customization.

For WvW an alternative is shiro/ventari with staff/hammer for backline support+decent damage.

Did you only try it during the first beta? It was significantly worse then because they hadn’t implemented weapon swapping yet.

I understand where you are coming from, and it may never be your class of choice, but I encourage you to give it another try. The legends are like stances you get to switch between. No, you don’t get to customize the legends, but you do get to choose two and also two sets of weapons. The interactions between some of the weapons and legends are pretty cool and not at all what you might think of at first. For instance, Shiro is thought of as an offensive stance, but you can combine it with staff to provide some burst healing.

Revenant is a pocketknife with all kinds of cool gadgets it can use for different situations. If you can let go of what it isn’t or what it can’t do and focus instead on what it can, you might find it is a lot more fun than you first thought.

Misguided.5139:

Did you only try it during the first beta? It was significantly worse then because they hadn’t implemented weapon swapping yet.

I understand where you are coming from, and it may never be your class of choice, but I encourage you to give it another try. The legends are like stances you get to switch between. No, you don’t get to customize the legends, but you do get to choose two and also two sets of weapons. The interactions between some of the weapons and legends are pretty cool and not at all what you might think of at first. For instance, Shiro is thought of as an offensive stance, but you can combine it with staff to provide some burst healing.

Revenant is a pocketknife with all kinds of cool gadgets it can use for different situations. If you can let go of what it isn’t or what it can’t do and focus instead on what it can, you might find it is a lot more fun than you first thought.

yes I only tried it in one of the betas as there was no other way to try it because HoT isn’t live yet. I play tested all the legends. imo (which I was trying not to say in such an aggressive way) the setups the way they are suck. I don’t like saying things as vague as that. maybe you could say I find them too restrictive. it felt like they weren’t meant to work with one another. like I said when your in the storyline and you have a “memory” or a “vison” where you are not you and thus you have that characters skills instead of your own,that was revenant. but I wasn’t really posting in this thread to discuss my opinions as I find that they were all negative on the class and the skill sets(thus why I wanted to change them). I was here to see specific ways that other players played the class especially the players who enjoyed it and what they found interesting/fun about it. if I keep speaking of my thoughts on it, it will just sound like I opened this thread to attack the class. imo a better way of doing the class would have been to shift the weapon skills i.e. ogden uses a hammer differently then shiro etc. this with a few original utility skills would have presented you with a heavy armor ancestral warrior.
kinda feel like I payed 200$(two ultimate copies one for me one for my wife) and I got, no new race(stone skinned dwarves would have been nice for HoS=heart of stone) no new playable class(no customization makes it unplayable for me), no ability to participate in raids as they are group formed meta instead of tanking and healer content like anet promised and will be plagued by elitism, which they could have fixed by making them work off the pvp match join engine. so i’m kinda hoping others out there can rescue this class for me so that I can look forward to something from my investment. I was super hyped for HoT then I made the mistake of playing the beta events and with each one I grew more and more disappointed. currently I feel I bought hot for some achievement points and druid/wyvern pets. so like I said as I found it all so disappointing I am looking for other people who felt it was great/fun and why specifically they found it fun/what they did with it.

Dude its not like they are changing the core mechanic at this point.

move on. Don’t play rev. There’s a lot of cool elite specs.

I mean we kind of already explained why we find it fun. So what if all DPS revs run Shiro/Glint? All DPS warriors run GS all DPS engis run nade spam etc

Maybe I’m wrong but it seems like you want this illusion that you are playing a special snowflake and I can’t help but roll my eyes a little. There ARE options on rev, not QUITE as many as some other characters but other characters also have less options than appear on the surface. Its a video game made by people, there are a finite amount of actions and reactions that can happen within it.

If you want true diversity there is this thing called real life.

a note about the limits of my own skills as a player. I guess I just don’t have what it takes to play gw2 characters the way the dev team intends. I find all the “on weapon switch” traits to be utterly useless garbage.the only weapon switch I do is from melee to range. I am still a player who makes “earth eles” instead of staff eles. I have 21 characters at level 80. I find an individual use for them and that’s the playstyle they are assigned. examples 3 rangers one is a bear/bow for backline wvw. one is a perma stealth trapper for wvw/pvp and any pve that is capture the point style. and my newest 80 ranger who will be my druid when it goes live I even have his full ascended gear ready. I enjoy individual customized builds/reasons for characters to be on my account. the only reason I would weapon switch on rev would be to go from melee to range. I would camp one legend on rev and learn how to play that build. it saddens me to see the world of tyria cheapened by balance winning out over build variety and creative character roles. consider this a venting post and nothing more then that my apologies ahead of time if it offends anyone. again did anyone actually have fun with a character that anet basically made for you? what was character bot(revenant) for you?

Ahhhh I understand more of where you are coming from now. You are old school RPG.

Sadly this is just where its at now a days with online gaming. The masses are too dumb and impatient to build their own characters so we get extremely simplified RPG-lite mechanics.

Personally I play GW2 for its action and the like, if I want the true old school, build your own character from the ground up experience, I go to the ol pen and paper RPG tabletop experience.

D&D3.5 for life yo.

Imho is not bad as you picture. Yes we have less microchoices but we make 2 big one, which role bring with which legend. I like that. Also let’s be honest: 5 legends provide 10 possible combinations (5!/3!*2!); now tell me if you seriously can come up with more than 10 viable utility combinations with any class. Keyword viable, also with sense. You’d be able in few rare cases, like engi.
So to me this limitation is just apparent and even if this allows a “pre balanced” class i’m not mad at all, at least we wont suffer hell as other classes.

On a side note i’d really like to see 1 more utility per legend, tho ;-)
My 2 coppers.

Gaaroth.2567:

Imho is not bad as you picture. Yes we have less microchoices but we make 2 big one, which role bring with which legend. I like that. Also let’s be honest: 5 legends provide 10 possible combinations (5!/3!*2!); now tell me if you seriously can come up with more than 10 viable utility combinations with any class. Keyword viable, also with sense. You’d be able in few rare cases, like engi.
So to me this limitation is just apparent and even if this allows a “pre balanced” class i’m not mad at all, at least we wont suffer hell as other classes.

On a side note i’d really like to see 1 more utility per legend, tho ;-)
My 2 coppers.

I saw one viable rev combo glint/shiro(and it’s only “viable” not fun). you see 10. “viable” is in the eye of the beholder. in reality there will probably be some combos of legends that people will use and are run the exact same way when a player plays one of those combos. it’s simple math if a class has 100 builds(random number chosen) possible counting any switch of any setable skill as a different build. a role player(like me) might find 30 fun ways to play that class, then comes the horrid job of merging what you find as fun with others are willing to group with(which is almost always exclusively zerk glass cannon dps) by the time your down with that you have maybe 15 possible “fun” “viable” ways to play any one class. if your character class is revenant then you start with 10 possible, 3 “fun” and 1 “viable and fun”. that is a different story then if the class had started with the normal 100 possibilities(again random total just used for illustration). if a class starts with more options then it can accommodate more play styles and thus more players. fun is the goal,it’s a game. micromanaged hell is for real life. if they wanted to preload all possible combos then it should have had 4 legend slots like an ele and 20-30 legends to choose from(in order to maintain the same kind of build variety that all other classes have). what one player finds to be optimal other players find tedious and over nitpicked. and THAT is the wonderful thing about gw2 and gw1 is that they try to accommodate all play styles. but rev only accommodates one play style, the kind of player that takes the premade character instead of making one of their own.

But again it could have been done much simpler by shifting the weapon skills with legend shift and making about a few utility skills for players to use.

being a pocket knife/having ten builds you enjoy is as vague as my venting was earlier. i didn’t start this thread to talk about things i already knew. i literally mean what legends did you run with what traits? how did that play out in use? what did you think about what you played? What did you do with that playtime? my playtime was taken up by super mario brothers mushroom trampolines and skills that i didn’t set. i know my beta test was a failure. i’m here in this thread to see what other people who think it was fun did. maybe i can learn some kind of insight into how it should be used that might then render me less bitter about the lack of customization and more accepting of character bot the revenant.

already an entire thread devoted to what people did what people ran and what people found fun or underpowered;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/BWE3-Revenant-Feedback-Thread/first
I think you just want to whine at this point.

I’d argue that the revenant has more useful utilities than any other class outside of pvp and WvW

Mightybird.6034:

I think you just want to whine at this point.

That’s pretty much all he has done in his threads.

Varezenem.2813:

Mightybird.6034:

I think you just want to whine at this point.

That’s pretty much all he has done in his threads.

what ever I’ve asked in every thread for constructive comments. redirected conversations that went into unproductive topic changes.

Mightybird.6034:

already an entire thread devoted to what people did what people ran and what people found fun or underpowered;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/BWE3-Revenant-Feedback-Thread/first
I think you just want to whine at this point.

the insult was not necessary tyvm for the forum link I will go there and read.

that thread is tech talk about how the skills can be tweaked/the errors and annyoances with specific revenant skills. I don’t care how you want it changed I care how you played the character. for example a useful post would be “while I was playing my revenant I played them in the pvp arena. while I was in pvp I was running the legends of glint and shiro. I fount that x traits worked best for that line. I did have some trouble capping but running orbs was easy” I am after what was fun/what you actually did with the character. not tech talk about how this skill worked or that skill should be tweaked.

Varezenem.2813:

Mightybird.6034:

I think you just want to whine at this point.

That’s pretty much all he has done in his threads.

^your gw2 friendly community at work folks.

Mightybird.6034:

already an entire thread devoted to what people did what people ran and what people found fun or underpowered;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/BWE3-Revenant-Feedback-Thread/first
I think you just want to whine at this point.

A thing you don’t have to read or comment on.

@OP There are 9 possible builds with revenant but they all can perform two roles.

The roles of the other classes are more expressed in their traitlines so they come away with more combinations however this doesn’t give them superior power. The revenant has the ability to be any role in the game either through stance or through hybrid but with the caveat of range. It is not something terrible just something different. I get some of your worries, I have similar ones myself, but you will have to wait and see.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Mightybird.6034:

already an entire thread devoted to what people did what people ran and what people found fun or underpowered;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/BWE3-Revenant-Feedback-Thread/first
I think you just want to whine at this point.

A thing you don’t have to read or comment on.

@OP There are 9 possible builds with revenant but they all can perform two roles.

The roles of the other classes are more expressed in their traitlines so they come away with more combinations however this doesn’t give them superior power. The revenant has the ability to be any role in the game either through stance or through hybrid but with the caveat of range. It is not something terrible just something different. I get some of your worries, I have similar ones myself, but you will have to wait and see.

ok. fair enough. so when you were using this jack of all trades master of none character,
what were you doing? I want to see how other players are using the class and how they enjoyed their time with it. I know that it might be different then what I can understand. Think of it like this, a bunch of players make youtube videos showing what they were doing on their beta while playing revenant. ok now i’m on the thread to get summaries of what your videos would have looked like. I want to see multiple players experience in the gameplay. I understand here that you are saying you liked not having to regear just to apply a different playstyle then the playstyle you were currently using and shifting legends did this for you. if I’ve misunderstood please let me know.

Warlock.7136:

the insult was not necessary tyvm for the forum link I will go there and read.

that thread is tech talk about how the skills can be tweaked/the errors and annyoances with specific revenant skills. I don’t care how you want it changed I care how you played the character. for example a useful post would be “while I was playing my revenant I played them in the pvp arena. while I was in pvp I was running the legends of glint and shiro. I fount that x traits worked best for that line. I did have some trouble capping but running orbs was easy” I am after what was fun/what you actually did with the character. not tech talk about how this skill worked or that skill should be tweaked.

I feel like I’m talking to someone who isn’t familiar with human customs. If they complain about ‘X’ or say ‘Y’ is OP, that is the same as saying, well very similar to your example above as to what is fun.

If someone says, “shiro was OP in PvP” well you can surmise that shiro is the dmg stance, and therefore if they find it OP in pvp they were doing a lot of dmg in pvp and had a lot of fun…

Seriously man I don’t know how much simpler I can make this…

Mightybird.6034:

Warlock.7136:

the insult was not necessary tyvm for the forum link I will go there and read.

that thread is tech talk about how the skills can be tweaked/the errors and annyoances with specific revenant skills. I don’t care how you want it changed I care how you played the character. for example a useful post would be “while I was playing my revenant I played them in the pvp arena. while I was in pvp I was running the legends of glint and shiro. I fount that x traits worked best for that line. I did have some trouble capping but running orbs was easy” I am after what was fun/what you actually did with the character. not tech talk about how this skill worked or that skill should be tweaked.

I feel like I’m talking to someone who isn’t familiar with human customs. If they complain about ‘X’ or say ‘Y’ is OP, that is the same as saying, well very similar to your example above as to what is fun.

If someone says, “shiro was OP in PvP” well you can surmise that shiro is the dmg stance, and therefore if they find it OP in pvp they were doing a lot of dmg in pvp and had a lot of fun…

Seriously man I don’t know how much simpler I can make this…

I understand what your saying there. what I read didn’t talk like that. what I read said things like: the sound effect on that one skill sounds bad that needs to be changed because it is super annoying.

skill x could be improved by….

I didn’t like the skill interaction between skill a and skill b.

like I said tech talk. I’m after: So I took on the beta pve map and while I was in pve I noticed that this aspect of the character class was fun. revenants really know how to do gymnastic tricks on those mushroom trampolines and that was fun. or the more likely mushroom trampoline gymnastics were fun a bit repetitive compared to the other classes and I thought it dragged down my gametime.

I think in some of the miscommunications here that people are perhaps having a hard time understanding or expressing what I am asking for. I read deeper into that thread and some of what was there in some of the latter pages had a bit of gameplay listed in respect to how they were playing. but It was buried in those posts by directly talking about the skills or the interactions with the skills and with how the hud could be improved. I don’t want to know what a revenant can do(sorta). I want to know literally what you were doing when you realized that what you were doing was either positively or negatively affected by the class in comparison to other classes you have played when doing the same content or similar content.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

I’d argue that the revenant has more useful utilities than any other class outside of pvp and WvW

this is a short but good example in this thread of what I am looking for. thank you for this post.

Okay so just reading the OP (apologies, but I have an extremely hard time comprehending blocks of texts, I tend to skip sentences or words without realizing it).

So, this is my best answer. While Revenant does lack the customizability of other professions when it comes to utilities, what they make up for is in synergy with the utilities themselves. By coming in sets, each legend offers a specific playstyle given to you by a set of utilities that work together. Take Shiro for instance. You have a shadowstep to get into melee, a heal to both do damage and heal you, and an upkeep skill to just burst someone down. And if you get in trouble, you could do a group stun, and use your stunbreak to evade backwards and get away. Now, you’re not likely to do that above scenario easily but the abilities work together.

It’s hard to see how that’s different until you start playing the engineer. (At least for me.) I tried to play a 1-kit build (grenades) as I despise the meta build. This is where you can see the biggest problem with cross-type utility builds. Gadgets have no synergy between them. Kits are all vastly different. Turrets are…well…bleh, as are Gyros. Elixirs are pretty much the exceptions, but they have their problems. For a general, open world build on my Scrapper during the beta weekend, it was hard to put something together. Healing Turret for obvious value, Nades for moments of needing to back off, Mortar for long range and an extra blast finisher… uh then what? Rocket boots for movement and Elixir B for boons and more stability? It’s just…it feels so awkward.

And that’s what I like with Revenant. If I want to go for a bit of direct/physical burst, I put in Shiro and get a toolset based around it. If I want some boons with a bit of control, I put in Glint and get a toolset based around that. Revenant is no more limited than other professions, but it does have more synergy between the utilities.

OP, build variety in this game has been mostly myth from the beginning. Just ask pretty much any class how many of their utility skills and/or traits end up going almost entirely unused.

Fade.1743:

Okay so just reading the OP (apologies, but I have an extremely hard time comprehending blocks of texts, I tend to skip sentences or words without realizing it).

So, this is my best answer. While Revenant does lack the customizability of other professions when it comes to utilities, what they make up for is in synergy with the utilities themselves. By coming in sets, each legend offers a specific playstyle given to you by a set of utilities that work together. Take Shiro for instance. You have a shadowstep to get into melee, a heal to both do damage and heal you, and an upkeep skill to just burst someone down. And if you get in trouble, you could do a group stun, and use your stunbreak to evade backwards and get away. Now, you’re not likely to do that above scenario easily but the abilities work together.

It’s hard to see how that’s different until you start playing the engineer. (At least for me.) I tried to play a 1-kit build (grenades) as I despise the meta build. This is where you can see the biggest problem with cross-type utility builds. Gadgets have no synergy between them. Kits are all vastly different. Turrets are…well…bleh, as are Gyros. Elixirs are pretty much the exceptions, but they have their problems. For a general, open world build on my Scrapper during the beta weekend, it was hard to put something together. Healing Turret for obvious value, Nades for moments of needing to back off, Mortar for long range and an extra blast finisher… uh then what? Rocket boots for movement and Elixir B for boons and more stability? It’s just…it feels so awkward.

And that’s what I like with Revenant. If I want to go for a bit of direct/physical burst, I put in Shiro and get a toolset based around it. If I want some boons with a bit of control, I put in Glint and get a toolset based around that. Revenant is no more limited than other professions, but it does have more synergy between the utilities.

ty I understand a bit better. this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for in this thread. well explained with specific examples and a cross class comparison to show where it fits into the spectrum(so to speak) of the class system as a whole.

I played a celestial glint/malyx build in the melee train. It was a perfect bruiser. This is in comparison to a d/d ele which is also a bruiser but cannot survive in the melee train.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I played a celestial glint/malyx build in the melee train. It was a perfect bruiser. This is in comparison to a d/d ele which is also a bruiser but cannot survive in the melee train.

ty for this post. what weapon(s) were you using?

I played Shiro/Glint. What I found fun about Shiro/Glint sword/x and either hammer or staff depending, was that I felt very tough, even in mostly zerker, the utilities while not customizable where all useful all the time, and it had everything I was looking for and find fun in a character…

Which is to say I like a tankier zerker teleporter feel (similar to guardian but guardian’s useful weaps are all slow i.e. GS and mace and scepter which I dislike)

Rev feels like kind of a thief (without stealth) + elements of elementalist and guardian. My three favorite professions. Basically a sword mage. It also has a lot of sustain with 2x heals which I also like a lot and find fun.

It lacks true burst, or surprise burst of a thief or mesmer since it lacks stealth but I was never into setting that up anyway so I don’t mind its downsides. I like the revs sustainy sometimes (when heals are up) and bursty sometimes (if energy if cds are upetc) play style a lot.

Its the feeling of fast attacks via sword (compared to guard) cool new attack style of hammer and staff, + all the useful stuff they get in summary that melds well with my play style.

I also like the sort of…maintenance feel/option of choosing to swap legendaries for energy/new utilities as if a character is too simple in actions per minute I get too bored.

Combine that with simply being sick of my old classes (ele, thief, guard).

Mightybird.6034:

I played Shiro/Glint. What I found fun about Shiro/Glint sword/x and either hammer or staff depending, was that I felt very tough, even in mostly zerker, the utilities while not customizable where all useful all the time, and it had everything I was looking for and find fun in a character…

Which is to say I like a tankier zerker teleporter feel (similar to guardian but guardian’s useful weaps are all slow i.e. GS and mace and scepter which I dislike)

Rev feels like kind of a thief (without stealth) + elements of elementalist and guardian. My three favorite professions. Basically a sword mage. It also has a lot of sustain with 2x heals which I also like a lot and find fun.

It lacks true burst, or surprise burst of a thief or mesmer since it lacks stealth but I was never into setting that up anyway so I don’t mind its downsides. I like the revs sustainy sometimes (when heals are up) and bursty sometimes (if energy if cds are upetc) play style a lot.

Its the feeling of fast attacks via sword (compared to guard) cool new attack style of hammer and staff, + all the useful stuff they get in summary that melds well with my play style.

I also like the sort of…maintenance feel/option of choosing to swap legendaries for energy/new utilities as if a character is too simple in actions per minute I get too bored.

Combine that with simply being sick of my old classes (ele, thief, guard).

ty for this post. a couple of questions did you feel the lack of burst from legends taking up the slot that some other classes have their burst skill in? or did something else cause this? also you mention it teleporting, what skill(s) did this for you? i didn’t get alot of play time that i found useful in beta to see them in extended combat situations
as the beta map was basically a super mario brothers level that required mastery use to activate the mushroom trampolines. i felt trapped in a badly made jump puzzle that had the jump function turned off.

what kind of level of damage numbers were you seeing?

Warlock.7136:

ty for this post. a couple of questions did you feel the lack of burst from legends taking up the slot that some other classes have their burst skill in? or did something else cause this? also you mention it teleporting, what skill(s) did this for you? i didn’t get alot of play time that i found useful in beta to see them in extended combat situations
as the beta map was basically a super mario brothers level that required mastery use to activate the mushroom trampolines. i felt trapped in a badly made jump puzzle that had the jump function turned off.

what kind of level of damage numbers were you seeing?

Your questions are confusing but I will try my best…

Basically I used glint for boons (or go back to it later in fight if it was still going if I needed the heal) at the start of fight. Glint Swiftness between fights for travel. Might and fury during fight. Id pop herald f2 ability for more goodness then switch to shiro for burst. Main “burst” or damage source was the boons (might and fury from glint) then turning on the quickness skill from shiro and just going ham. rinse and repeat.

That’s of course in a vacuum. Something would usually come up for me to do something a bit diff. That’s also what most people did I think.

Teleporting is from shiros utility/legend and is generally more useful in pvp but you can kind of bounce between mobs with it too.

Warlock.7136:

ty for this post. a couple of questions did you feel the lack of burst from legends taking up the slot that some other classes have their burst skill in? or did something else cause this? also you mention it teleporting, what skill(s) did this for you? i didn’t get alot of play time that i found useful in beta to see them in extended combat situations
as the beta map was basically a super mario brothers level that required mastery use to activate the mushroom trampolines. i felt trapped in a badly made jump puzzle that had the jump function turned off.

what kind of level of damage numbers were you seeing?

Revenant isn’t REALLY a bursty class by nature (though some would argue that Sword 3 is bursty, that’s only true in 1v1) because, with the exception of Shiro’s quickness, the utilities don’t provide tons of burst damage. This is why the auto-attacks tend to be strong. While some don’t care for this, I quite like it, because it allows you to make a defensive pick like off-hand shield or a more support-type legend without feeling like it completely ruins dps.

Misguided.5139:

Revenant isn’t REALLY a bursty class by nature (though some would argue that Sword 3 is bursty, that’s only true in 1v1) because, with the exception of Shiro’s quickness, the utilities don’t provide tons of burst damage. This is why the auto-attacks tend to be strong. While some don’t care for this, I quite like it, because it allows you to make a defensive pick like off-hand shield or a more support-type legend without feeling like it completely ruins dps.

yes exactly. in some ways it feels freeing.

came here to say less is sometimes more

came here to also say that other classes with more utilities, I rarely use more than 1/4, or 1/8 of them. I think Necro might be the only profession I use different utilities due in wvw,pvp, and pve, with pvp having multiple viable builds over the months.

came here to say warrior uses roughly 7 utilities max

came here to say atleast more than half of the rev utilities have a use and will be used during legend swap

k

You get 10 weapon skills, the same as many classes. You get 10 active utility skills when everyone else gets 5, with the only caveat being you have to choose your utility skills from 5 batches of 5 rather than the ~30ish everyone else picks 5 from.

Having 10 active utility skills is extremely useful and potentially makes a single character able to do a lot of different things within the same fight.

Naturally if you’re one of the people that enjoys swapping utilities based on the situation out of combat and the batches don’t suffice, you’re going to like a different class better.

Similarly, if you can’t find two batches that are fun to support the play style you’re looking for, Revenant probably isn’t for you.

Warlock.7136:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I played a celestial glint/malyx build in the melee train. It was a perfect bruiser. This is in comparison to a d/d ele which is also a bruiser but cannot survive in the melee train.

ty for this post. what weapon(s) were you using?

a/sh+staff, with the amount of stab I get on dodge, the glint heal and the malyx resistance/heal, you 1vx with absolute ease.

specializations were herald, corruption, and retribution.

thank you,you guys gave me alot to think about(mightybird/misguided/daniel). as i mentioned before my partial quote breaks my post down to html coding and a blank post.

Xernth said "similarly, if you couldn’t find two batches that are fun and support the play style you’re looking for, revenant probably isn’t for you.

Warlock: that is what brought me to opening this thread. i not only couldn’t find two i couldn’t even find one. and thats why i came looking to see what others were doing and why i was frustrated that i couldn’t change what revenant was doing. i have 2 80’s minimum in every class. one stated/built for offense and one build for gimic/utility/defense build in every class. which is why it was hard for me to admit that i just didn’t get this class, because i had got the idea down of every other class in multiple perspectives. thank you guys again for your time in this thread.