Guild Wars 2

Ouch!!!! Rev’s Glint heal was in a good spot.

So, coming back after playing around with Infuse Light nerfed and it didn’t impact me that much, personally. I felt the loss of it couple times, but in general, with good timing I was still able to recover to full or for good amount.

The initial heal could be a little higher maybe, but rest is ok, at least in builds I played (haven’t checked support rev).

What was interesting is that more than half of Revenants suddenly dissapeared from PvP, probably hopping on Druids. That’s a good thing, getting rid of fotm rerollers always brings big smile to my face. I think people overreacted, but it’s just me.

As a heavy Rev player i hate to admit it but these are good changes but dang they hurt.

The biggest plus side of Rev for me was chasing these pesky perma stealth Thiefs in WvWvW, how many of you were tired from their troll stop chasing them or worst get bored from their perma troll let it kill you.

Finally a class that has reveal and mobility to catch a Thief in his unlimited teleports, I am sure that hurt a the feelings of a Thief lover ANet developer.

And now we are back to square one, a Thief running away from you in WvWvW stop chasing them because we can’t have an another class in GW2 with the mobility somewhere near as Thief.

I mean did you hear anybody complain PT being OP in any context, I heard lots of Revenant complaints but none about PT, use more then twice in a row you will suffocate for energy.

This change was probably motivated by PvP where Thieves were falling out of meta due to being just decapper, since Revenant with PT was faster and more efficient +1 and superior teamfighter.

Ragion.2831:

As a heavy Rev player i hate to admit it but these are good changes but dang they hurt.

PT CD is not a good change. Other changes are ok.

Putting another mechanic (CD) on top of skill governing mechanic (energy) is bad. New invalidates/diminishes the existance of the former (energy here). It basically changes revenant into something it wasn’t advertised as. Energy was meant to be our cooldown. If I have 100 energy I can do elite and some other skills or just back to back skill X. If I cannot do it then why have energy if there is no choice.

I too am someone who loves revenant and feels some of these nerfs are too hard, but i feel like none of this is doing anything, I havent seen a dev post in any of the treads here since the expansion released. The thing that most annoys me is the wall bug with Unrelenting Assault (and the fact that it doesnt work on “Objects”) and Vengeful Hammers.

But i feel like we’ve been hung out to dry on this and am very sad now.
Revenant even became my main because of it’s versatility it’s a class where i can bring out my potential as a player, wich is what hope it stays, i will pray to RNGesus but i had expected this to happen.

I love it. It’s like watching a pop star get into a scandal. I’m just. Getting a bag of popcorn and watching you all run ragged and scream unimaginative math and cursing at one another.

Killyox.3950:

Ragion.2831:

As a heavy Rev player i hate to admit it but these are good changes but dang they hurt.

PT CD is not a good change. Other changes are ok.

Putting another mechanic (CD) on top of skill governing mechanic (energy) is bad. New invalidates/diminishes the existance of the former (energy here). It basically changes revenant into something it wasn’t advertised as. Energy was meant to be our cooldown. If I have 100 energy I can do elite and some other skills or just back to back skill X. If I cannot do it then why have energy if there is no choice.

CDs lock players from spamming the same skill.
Energy locks players from spamming the remaining skills.

Both mechanics complement each other.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Killyox.3950:

Ragion.2831:

As a heavy Rev player i hate to admit it but these are good changes but dang they hurt.

PT CD is not a good change. Other changes are ok.

Putting another mechanic (CD) on top of skill governing mechanic (energy) is bad. New invalidates/diminishes the existance of the former (energy here). It basically changes revenant into something it wasn’t advertised as. Energy was meant to be our cooldown. If I have 100 energy I can do elite and some other skills or just back to back skill X. If I cannot do it then why have energy if there is no choice.

CDs lock players from spamming the same skill.
Energy locks players from spamming the remaining skills.

Both mechanics complement each other.

The purpose of Energy was exactly so that we could repeatedly use skill and thus would be unable to use other skills because of that. Do I use Skill X and Y or do I use skill X twice in row instead but can’t use skill Y until I regen some energy? That’s the purpose of energy.

Same like Thieves can spam their attacks until they run out of INI and they can’t use other things. That’s not complementing each other, that’s countering each other.

Killyox.3950:

The purpose of Energy was exactly that we COULD repeatedly use skill and thus would be unable to use other skills because of that. Do I use Skill X and Y or do I use skill X twice in row instead but can’t use skill Y until I regen some energy? That’s the purpose of energy.

Same like Thieves can spam their attacks until they run out of INI and they can’t use other things. That’s not complementing each other, that’s countering each other.

That’s one of the purposes of energy, and it still does applies to some existing skills.

Energy + CD also has a very unique purpose: serve as an excellent balancing and risk-reward tool that neither CDs or energy alone can provide. It’s the least abusable of the three.

It’s fine that some skills are designed to be used repeatedily, it’s fine that some skills are designed to merely have a cooldown and, otherwise, come for free (or close to it), but having entire professions restricted to that is not as fine, and it’s one of the sources oft some of GW2’s combat problems. In this regard, GW1 combat is better. And so is the Revenant.

In many ways, Revenant’s/ GW1’s energy system is far more solid that thief’s initiative. And it’s not only because of the energy + cd proven formula. The lack of energy-generating traits, the energy upkeeps, global energy gain on swap and the threshould mechanic for the sake of trait effects all make this system far more solid and well designed than Thief’s.

Initiative is, in comparison, simplistic, primitive, restritive and hard to balance for.

Except there are at least 5 ways you could nerf PT.

Reduce/Remove dmg
Increase cost by 5-10
Remove/reduce “unblockables”
Reduce the distance travelled
Disable “teleport” function so you have to be in range of the skill for it to work (atm you can be outside and it moves you still)

We already had weapons balanced around the idea of CD + Energy but that wasn’t really for utilities. Then if they are adding CDs they should remove costs on weapons since we won’t be able to spam them regardless of energy.

Also it’s a bad habit and lazy design to keep adding more and more cooldowns to a class that was supposed to not be chained by them to this degree. There are other ways of balancing this besides CD.

Because of CD I am pretty much pigeonholed into actually switching Legends not because I want/need to but because I got stuff on CD and won’t be able to use it anyway even if I am at 100 energy.

What’s next? RShadows CD? IO CD? VHammers CD?

Killyox.3950:

Except there are at least 5 ways you could nerf PT.

Reduce/Remove dmg
Increase cost by 5-10
Remove/reduce “unblockables”
Reduce the distance travelled
Disable “teleport” function so you have to be in range of the skill for it to work (atm you can be outside and it moves you still)

Reduce/ remove the damage: it would not fix the problem AND nerf it in other situations.
Increase the cost: it would not fix the problem AND nerf it in other situations.
Remove unblockables: it would not fix the problem AND nerf it in other situations.
Reduce travel: it would not fix the problem AND nerf it in other situations.
Disable “teleport”: might be an interesting fix, but I’m not sure if it would fix the problem.

All your proposals revolve around nerfing the skill in every single scenario, including any scenario where the skill wasn’t broken in the first place, just for the sake of preserving a niche playstyle that belongs to the thief. You want this skill to be nerfed everywhere JUST so YOU can chase thieves better.

Fortunately for us all, a small cd addition has fixed the problem without nerfing the skill where it didn’t nerfing.

No. I don’t want it to chase thieves better. I actually rarely use this skill atm because I stick to new maps and haven’t pvped after release yet. So this assumption is unfound.

What’s the problem then ? Mobility? Why is mobility on our only mobile Legend such a problem?

Cost increase is actually better than CD. It leaves decision making in players’ hands while lowering the amount of times you can PT to enemy.

Remember Rev with the exception of Necromancer has the least amount of gap closers/mobility skills. So if they nerf this it has a huge impact on the entire class.

Distance would also help alleviate problem without making the skill useless because we wouldn;t be able to chase enemies from 1200 range. Reduction to 900 or 800 would be a huge difference in allowing our enemies to get away if they also dedicated to it. It would still allow us to close the distance in a fight without being impossible to shake down. Also why should running away be superior to chasing? That would invalidate chasing skills to begin with.

DiogoSilva.7089

Fortunately for us all, a small cd addition has fixed the problem without nerfing the skill where it didn’t nerfing.

“For us all”??? Please speak for yourself not for entire forum as most is against cd. Theres a reason why we have tons of threads about phase traversal, and none of them praise added cd.

You know why i would go for Shiro? Not for his horrible healing skill, not for his horrible lack of condi removal, but for dps&mobility as that was the job of this legend, this is why we dont really have other sources of mobility either and yet it got nerfed in the most ugly possbile way..like really? Raising energy was all that is needed.

Burtnik.5218:

Raising energy was all that is needed.

You are proposing a nerf to all situations where this skill is only needed to be used once, while anet apparently only wanted to nerf it when it is used multiple times.

Global nerf vs situational nerf.

When used only once, is this skill overpowered? If so, then yes, have them increase its energy cost or something. But at the moment, anet decided that it is not overpowered in that situation.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Burtnik.5218:

Raising energy was all that is needed.

You are proposing a nerf to all situations where this skill is only needed to be used once, while anet apparently only wanted to nerf it when it is used multiple times.

Global nerf vs situational nerf.

When used only once, is this skill overpowered? If so, then yes, have them increase its energy cost or something. But at the moment, anet decided that it is not overpowered in that situation.

Revenant is energy based. Not cd. If thats the issue with rev then i dont know..scrap the energy system completely and dumb it to trashbin? What was said before? That they added energy system so they could give us strong abilities limited by energy. That they would balance it by upping/lowering energy. What we getting? Slapped cd on everything.

There was more purposes to use this skill as for example getting unblockables. Thats not really wise to do anymore. If PT fail to teleport, its put on cd, if it get interrupted it goes on cd (if it was power lock mesmer it goes on 15cd – thats cool right?), if chilled and cant affort to do RP (in b4 added cd), your cd is increased to 8,3sec. Energy has none of this issues, if if failed the olny thing you lost was energy. Now you lose both.

If everything get cd, what i am supposed to do with energy? Swap at 70% cus i cant use my skills either way? Then it wont matter or actually it will as rev will be focused around spamming everything off cd, swap, spam it again rinse repeat. So much about energy management wow. Cd’s olny dumb this class now and im not sure why would anyone complain about raised energy unless.. they have some issues with managing.

Burtnik.5218:

Revenant is energy based. Not cd.

I see this idea thrown out a lot, and I don’t understand why.

Thieves are the profession that is exclusively energy based (well, for the weapon skills, that is).

Revenant’s mechanics were always advertised as being a nod to GW1’s combat system, which featured both energy and cooldowns. We learned very early on that revs were getting cooldowns. There’s nothing new about that.

If thats the issue with rev then i dont know..scrap the energy system completely and dumb it to trashbin? What was said before? That they added energy system so they could give us strong abilities limited by energy.

You are under the assumption that a profession with only cooldowns and a profession with both cooldowns and energy is the same thing, which is utterly wrong. Energy allows for lower cooldowns and stronger skills, and this is a reality even with CDs slapped in.

That they would balance it by upping/lowering energy. What we getting? Slapped cd on everything.

Energy is a tool for balancing. CD is another tool. The more tools anet has to balance, the more precisely they’ll be able to target and nerf specific problems without creating too many secodnary consequences. With Phase Traversal getting a CD, this is exactly what happened: Anet was able to nerf the extreme mobility that occured from using the skill repeatedely, without having to nerf the skill when used only once. This is a good thing. It is not a bad thing.

There was more purposes to use this skill as for example getting unblockables. Thats not really wise to do anymore. If PT fail to teleport, its put on cd, if it get interrupted it goes on cd (if it was power lock mesmer it goes on 15cd – thats cool right?), if chilled and cant affort to do RP (in b4 added cd), your cd is increased to 8,3sec.

Counterplay is healthy, so that is not a problem. In fact, it might be an additional reason to preserve the skill’s current strength without having to nerf it with a higher energy cost. If it gets proven that the unblockable effect becomes useless with this change, anet can always buff that particular effect in the future.

If everything get cd, what i am supposed to do with energy? Swap at 70% cus i cant use my skills either way? Then it wont matter or actually it will as rev will be focused around spamming everything off cd, swap, spam it again rinse repeat.

You answered your own question without knowing it. Energy prevents you from spamming everything off cooldown, because spamming everything off cooldown requires more energy than what you’ll usually have. This is what makes energy + cooldown so awesome. Other professions spam everything off cooldown because they do NOT have energy. Thieves spam skills because they do NOT have cooldowns. Revenants barely spam (or not at all) because they have both.

If every single profession in GW2 had both energy and cooldowns, like the Revenant, then GW2 would be a less spammy game and it would have been more successful at pvp esports to this day.

From my opinion, remove energy from revenant, you didn´t learn nothing from thieves and all nerfs they got cos initiative and now you are making the same mistake with a similar class because you are trying to fusionate 2 diferent playstyles mana management (energy, initiative) and cooldowns and as we can see now you are starting to nerf revenants since 4 days of release!!!!
Its just my point of view if a class is using mana then use mana to nerf, if a class is using cd then use cd!!
Thats my point of view and we can see all patch notes (most nerfed-“balanced” class thief). And i dont want to see that happen to revenant too.

They won’t go out this road.
They get our mistral, cos guards and druids too op. NOT tempest, ventari, heal scrapper!
Easy get out amulet, then balance guard and druid healing power…

PT nerf was bad move and is in conflict what Arenat used to be known for – balance.
PT was very useful tool against thieves in wvw environment. Fro long time Thieves have been the top predator in WvW because they can choose and reset their fights with insane amount of stealth, speed, blinding skills and healing in stealth mode.

Finally there was fast, simple and rather efficient skill to hunt down backstabbing and sneaky thieves.
Why thieves are allowed to choose their fights? Engage and disengage without much effort?
Fix Shiro and put it back into it’s former glory.

Before you start to flame this post. I just say that I have all professions at lvl 80 in wvw setups and also enjoy playing thief for obvious reason.

I just want that there are hardcounters for all professions also in WvW.

Cos 95% of thiefs just spam keys with no mind. Not everyone can survive at low health agains thief, even block all their attacks….
P.s.
GG. I STILL see dragon hunters, that easy fight against 3 characters in close combat and win.
But ventari now unplayable. No survivability (with any profession, play yestarday not bad with demon, no can’t do that). GG, great balance at pvp! More that great patches!

Kakuzu Akatsuki.9703:

From my opinion, remove energy from revenant, you didn´t learn nothing from thieves and all nerfs they got cos initiative and now you are making the same mistake with a similar class because you are trying to fusionate 2 diferent playstyles mana management (energy, initiative) and cooldowns and as we can see now you are starting to nerf revenants since 4 days of release!!!!
Its just my point of view if a class is using mana then use mana to nerf, if a class is using cd then use cd!!
Thats my point of view and we can see all patch notes (most nerfed-“balanced” class thief). And i dont want to see that happen to revenant too.

This is very good point. CD’s to all the skills. Maybe whole energy mechanism should be removed?
Staff that needed a buff was instead nerfed.
All these changes so soon after release sends a message that dev team is uncertain about what they are doing with Revenants.

Personally I think staff, bastion etc (except PT) is fine een with the nerf. Playing Ventari Herald atm with sword/shield and staff. Liking it a lot especially with more people around to heal.kitten heals from staff, shield, ventari and 550-690 regens (no food buffs etc) are pretty cool

My own biggest gripe is with CD on PT because that directly treads on our core class mechanic-energy management- while other nerfs don’t.

Killyox.3950:

Personally I think staff, bastion etc (except PT) is fine een with the nerf. Playing Ventari Herald atm with sword/shield and staff. Liking it a lot especially with more people around to heal.kitten heals from staff, shield, ventari and 550-690 regens (no food buffs etc) are pretty cool

My own biggest gripe is with CD on PT because that directly treads on our core class mechanic-energy management- while other nerfs don’t.

I do like playing ventari/glint however with the recent nerfs our sustain is really low anyone with unblockable skills or decent access to poison can kill us in seconds.
If we still had the ministrel amulet it wouldn’t impact we would lose damage but that’s it…
Since glint self sustain is a problem ventari should be buffed to compensate specially since ventari did need some buffs anyways.