Guild Wars 2

The Revenant Mace needs a buff.

Comparing it to the Necromancer Scepter, which is a well-balanced condition-based weapon already in the game, the inferiority of the Revenant Mace becomes apparent.

First, the mace forces you into melee range. I feel this would be a good reason for the devs to make the damage co-efficient for the base damage the mace deals a little bit higher than the scepter, but even if they did, unless they made it a lot higher, it’s not enough to justify the range difference when you consider the other problems the mace has that work to compound this range issue.

Second, the mace has no skill that gives a snaring effect. No cripple, no chill, no immobilize, no stun, no pull effects. And no shadowstepping or swiftness effects that would help the Revenant cover distance when their enemy is moving away from them. They do have a leaping attack with Mace 3, but the way it’s designed makes it less useful for covering distance, like Ranger Greatsword 3, and more for creating an AoE blast effect. The Necromancer Scepter can cause cripple with it’s Scepter 2 ability, making the Necromancer’s weapon superior again.

And third, the real problem I find with the mace is the conditions it applies. Under the right circumstances, Torment can be superior to bleeding, but that requires you to keep the enemy moving. This is incredibly difficult to do when you’ve locked the person applying the torment into melee range. If you stay moving to keep the enemy following you, you run the risk of moving out of melee range and missing your attacks, while if you focus on staying in melee range, the enemy isn’t going to move and your torment is going to be lack-luster compared to the bleeding that the Necromancer’s Scepter can apply. It seems as though this might have been accounted for by giving the Revenant access to a fire field and a blast finisher with Mace 2 and 3 so that they can get some burning and might going to make up for the damage they can’t sustain with the auto-attack chain. However, if you require the rest of your Mace skills to bring the auto-attack in line with the auto-attack of other classes, then the Mace is underpowered compared to those other classes when you consider the rest of the skills available on the other class’ weapons.

Eh you ask for a movement impairing effect and then complain it’s not easy enough to keep the enemy moving for torment… Shouldn’t you ask for something like a knockback? :p
That compared with Jalis’ Taunt could at least give you reliable Torment ticks.

That said, off-hand axe has a nice leap and a pull already. It’s definitly different from Necro Scepter/whatever but I still think it’s not a bad set. Might need some higher numbers and I’d love to have the blasts tighter together so hitting 2 explos is reliable and not gimmicky but that’s just me.

I’d just like to bring into the equation that your down skill 1 as Rev hits harder than mace let that simmer lol

Akuni.8604:

Eh you ask for a movement impairing effect and then complain it’s not easy enough to keep the enemy moving for torment… Shouldn’t you ask for something like a knockback? :p

i think those were two separate complaints. not only is it difficult to apply torment with a melee weapon that offers no (significant) snare, but being a melee weapon, torment is extra useless because to hit them reliably requires them to stay relatively still.

If it applied significant stacks of torment then this could counter the lack of snare, as movement would suddenly spike the damage you took. Alternately, it could cripple and apply a condition that isn’t movement punishing thereby being fully effective against an enemy that’s not trying to run away (or is incapable of doing so)

I think the idea is that the torment is a deterrent to keep the person you are fighting from running because if they do, they will take even more damage.

I don’t know for sure, but I think the base damage from your power stat keeps the auto-attack in line with necro scepter. If I recall, necro scepter doesn’t hit very hard if you remove the bleeding.

I’m not sure if necromancer scepter is the best example of how a good condi weapon is being done. The base dps is quite pitifull unless you fully gear/trait for it in pvp (~700 dps auto and 2000 damage from #2 in rabid). That and the third skill is completely stupid on a condition build.

A crippled foe still ticks torment as far as I know. So that could be a way to maintain melee AND tick higher torment. And yes, go to the necro forum and see how little people like the scepter. It is far from being an ideal source of conditions nor damage. So saying the revenant’s mace falls short of it says a lot :p

As a necro main, I really felt like throwing my hands up in despair after you said Scepter is a balanced Necro weapon. I really feel you shot yourself a bit in the foot right there. Scepter is actually quite bad, whilst still being the ‘best’ condi weapon :-(. Supported by a silly trait. It’s supposed to be our best Condition weapon and it just fails and causes all kinds of problems to actually come up with a condition build that is any good. It’s why our main ‘condition build’ relies on returning actual damaging conditions we get from other players. Which is terrible. Scepter has low damage, no burst, wasted 3rd skill. The cripple would be sorta okay if it wasn’t so difficult to land and had a damaging condition other than bleed.

The point you make about leaning on Torment on a melee condition build however is spot on and really makes no sense. I liked the idea tho, especially if you could move mobs… but then, why oh why did they make this a melee build. I don’t even…

Tim.6450:

I’m not sure if necromancer scepter is the best example of how a good condi weapon is being done.

Silverkey.2078:

And yes, go to the necro forum and see how little people like the scepter. It is far from being an ideal source of conditions nor damage.

Koalachan.3451:

As a necro main, I really felt like throwing my hands up in despair after you said Scepter is a balanced Necro weapon.

Is there a better condition-focused weapon that I should have compared it to? It stacks up bleeding quite well and maintains poison and cripple. If you’re running a full-condition damage+duration gear build, what is better in the main-hand?

It’s the best necromancer condition weapon, which is why condi necro are terrible. Look at good condi classes.

Silverkey.2078:

It’s the best necromancer condition weapon, which is why condi necro are terrible. Look at good condi classes.

Ok then, even outside of necromancer class. Any class at all. What weapon would you have compared it to in order to show the inefficiency of the Revenant Mace? I chose the necromancer scepter because they had similar auto-attack chains.

Well for example it is very similar to warrior sword.
AA: mace: 2×4s torment + 3s poison. Total damage coef: 1.35. app. cast time 1 1/4
AA: sword: 2×8s bleeding + cripple. Total damage coef: 1.8. app. cast time 1 1/4

sword’s damage is significantly higher. Torment is 75% bleeding or 150% if moving. Poison is about the same as bleeding. Assuming the enemy is moving, mace has an equivalent 15s bleeding while sword 16. Poison is probably more annoying than cripple BUT cripple allows enemy to stay at melee range.
Mace 3 and sword 2 are similar in many ways (cool down, cast time) but mace is slightly stronger and a blast finisher while sword leaps further and does not cost energy. The leap distance again punishes the mace by making it less sticky.
Finally mace 2 has a LONG cast time preventing it from having any use. Sword 3 has a very high coefficient especially against enemy with less than 50% health.

So overall, I would say the mace is not too bad in its conditions, except that it lacks tools to stay at melee range and it has clearly lower base damage. Boost its damage, make the leap 600, add some kind of soft CC and make skill 2 faster and you have a decent weapon.