Guild Wars 2

We got weapon swap which is awesome! There needs to be more options for customizing the utilities though. This could be done by adding two unique skills for every legend, or adding a few skills that can be used across all the legends. If they don’t add more customization, I’m worried there will always be utility slots that never get used. More customization is always better.

I don’t see that coming. Legendswap is the intended way to compensate for the lack of customization. The fact that you get no skills to customize but you get 2 sets of them is the revenant class mechanic (with energy in place to avoid spamming).

If you want more customization there are many other classes to choose from. If you want legends and legendswap I’m afraid you have to giveup customization.

However I’d love racial skills and mistfire wolf to be selectable. MISTfire wolf.

Kidel.2057:

I don’t see that coming. Legendswap is the intended way to compensate for the lack of customization. The fact that you get no skills to customize but you get 2 sets of them is the revenant class mechanic (with energy in place to avoid spamming).

If you want more customization there are many other classes to choose from. If you want legends and legendswap I’m afraid you have to giveup customization.

However I’d love racial skills and mistfire wolf to be selectable. MISTfire wolf.

Never say never… its beta (weapon Swap introduction hint hint)

Sure, let’s change the main mechanic of the class and make it just like a warrior with more skills.

Kidel.2057:

Sure, let’s change the main mechanic of the class and make it just like a warrior with more skills.

Rebember that you been one of these people asking for weapon swap..which now will hold the class back and make it feel similiar to warrior/guard with extra 5 utility skills /shrug

In b4 increased cd’s on weapon skills just to balance it out.

skowcia.8257:

Rebember that you been one of these people asking for weapon swap..which now will hold the class back and make it feel similiar to warrior/guard with extra 5 utility skills /shrug

In b4 increased cd’s on weapon skills just to balance it out.

Now that Revenants have weapon-swap, have you cancelled your pre-purchase yet?

In the Shiro stream, Roy indicated that weapon swap had been in the works for the Revenant even before the extra beta weekend. It’s not as if the pro-weapon swappers here are culpable for ArenaNet. Also consider that the other major proposal that some people floated around made them nothing more than reskinned elementalists in heavy armor with a utility swap.

I will play it like it doesnt have any weapon swap taking advantage of ez bloodlust on second set, and if it wont perform well i will stay away from it. The class was designed without weapon set after all so it should perform well with one set right? Why i would play reskined guard with more fancy animations and worse sustain after all?

And if Roy already had plans for weapon swap why there wasnt 2nd underwater set datamined yet? Thats right, cause he didnt had any plans for weapon swap.

Weaponswap has nothing to do with the core machanic (and that’s in fact why it was needed).

Energy management is even more difficult and you still have swappable legendary skills.

Kidel.2057:

Weaponswap has nothing to do with the core machanic (and that’s in fact why it was needed).

Energy management is even more difficult and you still have seappable legendary skills.

No, its not more difficult. The flaw in energy system is that you cant open with a burst unlike other classes. That makes you predicable. There is no element of a surprise where you can for example build up energy on Jalis, swap to Shiro and keep 100% to unload jade wind and burst people down.

People says that Shiro is a better thief already with a better venom basilisk. But you as revenant cant start with jade wind compared to thief which can start venom and unload a burst at the start of the fight. And sword skill 3? Easy interrupt

Do you realize that what you said (while being correct, even if I don’t care) has nothing to do with what I said and with the main class mechanic, that is legend swap?
You just seem hurt because they did not end up uing your (flawed) solution. :\

Weaponswap is so much better and gives that little bit of customization that Revenant needs.

skowcia.8257:

I will play it like it doesnt have any weapon swap taking advantage of ez bloodlust on second set, and if it wont perform well i will stay away from it. The class was designed without weapon set after all so it should perform well with one set right? Why i would play reskined guard with more fancy animations and worse sustain after all?

So you have not, in fact, cancelled your pre-purchase like you said you would and you will still play a Revenant? Good to know. And based on that on your prior vaporous claims, I wager that you probably will play your Revenant with your second weapon set too (and not just for “ez bloodlust”).

And if Roy already had plans for weapon swap why there wasnt 2nd underwater set datamined yet? Thats right, cause he didnt had any plans for weapon swap.

Or because they were working on other weapon sets and legends. Or because they were still internally testing whether weapon swapping was feasible for the Revenant in land combat before going about designing another weapon for a marginalized game mode. Don’t over think the obvious, Skowcia.

But how is it any difficult? You have 4 weapon skills that consume energy on a cd, rest is down to utility skills which you wont spam often as they are situational, i wasnt really running out of energy (often i was swapping at over 70% in case of Jalis). In fact the olny reason i ever swapped was cause i needed another healing skill otherwise i would camp one legend 24/7.

skowcia.8257:

In fact the olny reason i ever swapped was cause i needed another healing skill otherwise i would camp one legend 24/7.

And that’s the main cause of your initial weird suggestion instead of weaponswap.
You don’t get legendswap at all, or you have adapted it to your own personal playstylke.

You are supposed to legendswap every 10 seconds, or even more frequently if it wasn’t for the cooldown.
You get 50 energy baseline, necessary for upkeep skills and 5 more weaponskills.
If you trait it with the main Revenant trait line (invocation) you also get stunbreak, and so potentially fury, plus 1 condi cleans on each legendswap (did you notice that we basically have no condi cleans except this and Jalis, yes, I’m not counting ventari tablet and staff)

Kidel.2057:

skowcia.8257:

In fact the olny reason i ever swapped was cause i needed another healing skill otherwise i would camp one legend 24/7.

And that’s the main cause of your initial weird suggestion instead of weaponswap.
You don’t get legendswap at all, or you have adapted it to your own personal playstylke.

You are supposed to legendswap every 10 seconds, or even more frequently if it wasn’t for the cooldown.
You get 50 energy baseline, necessary for upkeep skills and 5 more weaponskills.
If you trait it with the main Revenant trait line (invocation) you also get stunbreak, and so potentially fury, plus 1 condi cleans on each legendswap (did you notice that we basically have no condi cleans except this and Jalis, yes, I’m not counting ventari tablet and staff)

I think you are the one who doesnt understand it. You either swap every 10 seconds and continue spamming soft skills (good luck being competive in this case) or when you run out of energy (which is hard to do if you dont use upkeep skills). You stay in one legend building up energy for powerful skills to release a combo.

How do you plan use jade wind at all when you keep swapping? You cant jade wind right after a swap as that will leave you defendless without abilities to follow up with a burst. By leaving Shiro you also lose stunbreaks, mobility, burst possibilities. Swapping every 10 seconds inst optimal by any means, it actually puts you at many disadvantages. The point of utility swap is to adapt to situation, not to spam stuff brainlessly. Are you one of these thieves that spam heartseeker till they dont run out of ini? At this point i start to understand why its looks so hard to you.

Its getting even better when you mention a stunbreak on a legend swap, but how are you going to use it for your advantage, when you swap every 10seconds? Are you planning to get cc right every 10seconds or something? Do you swapping weapons right off the cd as well? Olny condi cleanse makes sense but 1 removed condi wont save you at all.

It takes 2-3 seconds to reach 100 energy after weaponswap in combat, and you have constant upkeep if you’re not toggling any skill, meaning you can use jade wind right away and be over 50% again before it ends. Skill animation + duration is way more time then the one you need to compensate for the energy cost. Remove the cooldown and you can even spam jade winds, and reach 100 energy while doing it.

Legend swap on cooldown is just the optimal energy management, of course.
But even if you don’t swap every 10 seconds, you still need to swap for stunbreaks, condi cleanse and energy refill after an upkeep skill.
Those are 3 completely different reasons compared to the ones that make you trigger weaponswap (like range change, kiting or getting new cooldowns for more damage).

I don’t want to be forced to swap weaponskills every time I need a weaponswap, sorry
That’s just stupid, deal with it.

Kidel.2057:

It takes 2-3 seconds to reach 100 energy after weaponswap in combat

Hahahaha. Ok, i dont have anything else to say. If youre on EU i will gladly duel your rev vs mine and we can see who is making better use of revenant if you dare to come naturally. Many were kitten warriors on forum, and lost hard with apologizes ingame. Youre welcome to join them.

Ps. I actually dont know why i should swap legend for stunbreak either when i have it build superior one in Shiro already? Cripple/chill/immo removal, 3/4sec evade, 50% endurance..all i have to do is keep my energy at ~50% which is not hard by any means if you dont spam.

So smart, a duel is the right way to test ideas about class mechanics!
Let me yse my elementalist, so if I wean it means that Revenant should get attunements!

Not 2-3 seconds? 4? Who cares, it’s not the point. You don’t need to build up anything to use Jade Winds. You use your 50 energy and you have 40 back before the target can move. The only thing that needs buildup is the upkeep skill, and that is also one of the main legendswap reason.

Kidel.2057:

So smart, a duel is the right way to test ideas about class mechanics!
Let me yse my elementalist, so if I wean it means that Revenant should get attunements!

Not 2-3 seconds? 4? Who cares, it’s not the point. You don’t need to build up anything to use Jade Winds. You use your 50 energy and you have 40 back before the target can move. The only thing that needs buildup is the upkeep skill, and that is also one of the main legendswap reason.

So you admit that you are too afraid to pick up the fight. That sums it up. If my way of playing is wrong then you would beat me without any problems. But its okay, i dont like fighting with low skill players either way.

I use my energy on jade wind which cost 50 and i will have back 40 energy before during these 3 seconds? Oh boyyy..You argue over me about mechanic when you dont even know what you talking about. Jade wind last 3 seconds, thats olny 15 energy back assuming you wont use other skills meanwhile. And it would be really stupid to not pair jade wind with impossible odds and sword 3.You did some epic fail right there.

5 energy/ 1sec. Unless im missing something yours jade wind last 7 seconds or you have some hidden way to boost your energy. Tell me how you do that my master?

skowcia is exactly right, I would rather have basilik venom which I can combo with my burst then an aoe with only 600 radius and cost all your energy..I can not imagine its usefulness..

lighter.2708:

skowcia is exactly right, I would rather have basilik venom which I can combo with my burst then an aoe with only 600 radius and cost all your energy..I can not imagine its usefulness..

no customization is pretty bad because you are forced to use the skills set dev provide, which most of the time had skill that are useless, you can not simply customizr your skill to match the current meta, either they keep revenant on a frequent update or I dont see it being too good in pvp

skowcia.8257:

So you admit that you are too afraid to pick up the fight. That sums it up. If my way of playing is wrong then you would beat me without any problems. But its okay, i dont like fighting with low skill players either way.

How old are you?
Or you’re simply trolling maybe. Still bad.

skowcia.8257:

I use my energy on jade wind which cost 50 and i will have back 40 energy before during these 3 seconds?

I said 4 in the other post, but well, that’s not the point.

skowcia.8257:

Oh boyyy..You argue over me about mechanic when you dont even know what you talking about. Jade wind last 3 seconds, thats olny 15 energy back assuming you wont use other skills meanwhile.

It’s almost 4 second if you factor in reaction time and activation time.
Also isn’t the upkeep stronger while in combat? there is more the 1 pip, so it can get stronger somehow. Again, not the point. Third time I say it.
I don’t care about Jade Winds.
Plus if you’re already fighting you get to use Jade winds when you have at least 55 energy.

skowcia.8257:

Tell me how you do that my master?

Are you asking to be reported? I just need to press a button.

However I see no problem in using Jade Winds then swap to Mallyx for its upkeep.
This still proves your whole idea flawed, since with that I’m forced to use Jade Winds with my secondary weapon so I’m able to use Mallyx with Sword.

If weaponswap is tied with Legendswap then I’d have 2 options:
1) equip sword in both sets (so basically no weaponswap)
2) or give up Shiro+Sword or Mallyx+Sword, since swapping legend in your opinion should also swap weapon

Do you get it now?

doesn’t matter tho, theres no point using a cc with 1 second cast time with huge animation with only 600 radius and cant combo with teleport….. because people will simply dodge it….

you have to go in fight the guy, bait dodges then hope you still have energy for it

lighter.2708:

…I can not imagine its usefulness…

Team play.

Kidel.2057:

How old are you?
Or you’re simply trolling maybe.

23, something wrong? Why i would troll? Im honest and asking for a fair fight, but you step back. Back in the old days people had honor..no more it seems. Quite sad if you ask me

Kidel.2057:

I said 4 in the other post, but well, that’s not the point.

please expand what you tried to say cause i really dont understand it.

Kidel.2057:

It’s almost 4 second if you factor in reaction time and activation time.

I dont understand again..what is almost 4 seconds? Stun last 3 seconds olny. And even then you wont recover 40 energy during that time.. Ps for me jade wind will take 0.5sec to activate.

Kidel.2057:

Also isn’t the upkeep stronger while in combat? there is more the 1 pip, so it can get stronger somehow.

?

Kidel.2057:

Plus if you’re already fighting you get to use Jade winds when you have at least 55 energy.

Why i would do that? To leave myself defendless? To waste energy as i wont burst anyone?

Kidel.2057:

Are you asking to be reported?

You dont like the fact that you been proven wrong, once again? But go ahead, report, then i will report you as well. Youre not clean either by any means. If you think you are then in this case mods will prove you wrong…yet again. I actually found your posts offensive and provoking.

Kidel.2057:

However I see no problem in using Jade winds then swap to Mallyx for its upkeep.
This still proves your whole idea flawed, since I’m forced to use Jade Winds with my secondary weapon so I’m able to use Mallyx with Sword.

What the f? Really what the…. You literally applied 1500 stacks of confusion to me. Overkill, im dead.

Why i would even swap to Mallyx after jade wind for it upkeep instead of staying in Shiro stance with impossible odds and bursting someone with unrelenting assault? It doesnt make any sense to me nor to anyone that is active in pvp.

And did i said something about weapon swapping with legend swap? If anything im against weapon swap whatsoever in any form.

Interchangable utility should have a downside.
Like, if you change your utility with a non-legend-specific one then you also have to sacrifice an utility slot on the other legend.

For exemple, you change your Shiro Utility 7? Then when you swap to your other legend the utility skill is still the same you had swapped on Shiro.
Of course you can change the order of the utilities so you happen to choose which utility to sacrifice on each legend, but still, you basically trade 2 utilities for one.

skowcia.8257:

23, something wrong? Why i would troll? Im honest and asking for a fair fight, but you step back. Back in the old days people had honor..no more it seems. Quite sad if you ask me

23? Then start acting like that please. Honor? Oh come on, listen to yourself.
And sure, a duel between 2 different players is the best way to determine the way to use Revenant, also in PvE.

skowcia.8257:

You dont like the fact that you been proven wrong, once again?

I don’t like flame. Be polite.

skowcia.8257:

But go ahead, report, then i will report you as well.

I did not, yet. You’re free to report me if you find a valid reason.

skowcia.8257:

I actually found your posts offensive and provoking.

Sorry about that, it wasn’t my intention

skowcia.8257:

What the f? Really what the…. You literally applied 1500 stacks of confusion to me. Overkill, im dead.

Why i would even swap to Mallyx after jade wind for it upkeep instead of staying in Shiro stance with impossible odds and bursting someone with unrelenting assault? It doesnt make any sense to me nor to anyone that is active in pvp.

And did i said something about weapon swapping with legend swap? If anything im against weapon swap whatsoever in any form.

You brought Jade Winds up, I’m not going to use that skill in a dps rotation. And Embrace the Darkness does actually more dps (and lasts longer) then Impossible Odds. For 32 seconds you get 15% power, precision and ferocity (plus defensive skills that may give more power/precision with food) vs 19 seconds of quickness. Do your math.

Regardless of this argument (that you brough up) I’ll try to be more clear: your idea of linking weapons to a legend is bad.

What if I want to alternate between Sword + Impossible Odds and Sword + Embrace the Darkness for max dps?
With your idea I can’t, because once I swap legend I also swap weapon. Or I’m forced to use Sword in both sets, giving up to any ranged option, or Mace with fire field for extra Might. Also giving up to customization (2 sets with Swords? It would be like not having weaponswap at all).

That’s just 1 example.
Another one?
I’m fighting ranged with Hammer + Mallyx, then I’m stunned and I need to legendswap. Oh, I suddently have a Sword. Nice, I have to go melee or wait 10 seconds, also wasting my Fury from stunbreak.

Another one?
My energy is over for whatever reason, I have Shiro+Jalis, tied to Sword+Hammer.
I have Shiro, and I want to get energy back to use my weaponskills or to actually heal, but if I do I’m forced to use hammer, lowering my dps, cleave and so on.
Again, 2 sets with Swords? It would be like not having weaponswap at all.

Do you want me to continue?

PS: you can simulate your solution with normal weaponswap if you want. Just take any keybind software and setup so that when you press f1 you also press your weaponswap key automatically.
This should be enough proof that normal weaponswap is objectively better, because it includes your solution, giving more customization options to people with a more open mind.

Arkblue.6129:

Interchangable utility should have a downside.
Like, if you change your utility with a non-legend-specific one then you also have to sacrifice an utility slot on the other legend.

The downside is that you can’t choose your utility.
Also 5 more utilities is not too much if you consider that Guardian has 3 extra skills (virtues), Mesmer has 4 (soon 5), Engineer has 5, Necro has 5, and so on. All class mechanic, so it’s not optional and you still have 0 energy cost and utility to choose from.
The only classes with a mechanic that gives 2-3 less skills then Revenant are Ranger, Thief and Warrior. They all have many advantages however (like initiative, pet, highest stats), and Revenant still has energy to manage, so having more skills is actually mitigated.

Kidel.2057:

?

I never said i want a weapon swap linked to to legend swap. Not even once, if i did then show me a quote+link to post.

Also Mallyx is not 15%, but 10%. Where you get that idea from? WIki? Wiki is wrong and outdated. And i am talking about pvp, not pve.

skowcia.8257:

I never said i want a weapon swap linked to to legend swap. Not even once, if i did then show me a quote+link to post.

If I’m mistaken then tell me your idea, you simply said that weaponswap is not good, so I assumed you prefer the other most popular option.

skowcia.8257:

Also Mallyx is not 15%, but 10%. Where you get that idea from? WIki? Wiki is wrong and outdated.

I remembered 10% too, but then i checked wiki. However 10% more power, precision and Ferocity is basically 30% more damage, without factoring a 2% bonus from items that give you power/precision from vitality/toughness. 32 seconds of 30% more damage is better then just quickness, also because you can get quickness in other ways, so you can have Mallyx+quickness.
And also 10% more precision means you use more of your ferocity, and without wasting more energy.
EDIT: I also forgot that Mallyx upkeep copies conditions, so yeah, you do way more damage.

And that was just ONE example.

skowcia.8257:

And i am talking about pvp, not pve.

I’m talking about everything, since you can’t have a different class mechanic for pvp only.

Well you can always use race specific skills, or any future cross class skills they may add.

Kidel.2057:

Arkblue.6129:

Interchangable utility should have a downside.
Like, if you change your utility with a non-legend-specific one then you also have to sacrifice an utility slot on the other legend.

The downside is that you can’t choose your utility.
Also 5 more utilities is not too much if you consider that Guardian has 3 extra skills (virtues), Mesmer has 4 (soon 5), Engineer has 5, Necro has 5, and so on. All class mechanic, so it’s not optional and you still have 0 energy cost and utility to choose from.
The only classes with a mechanic that gives 2-3 less skills then Revenant are Ranger, Thief and Warrior. They all have many advantages however (like initiative, pet, highest stats), and Revenant still has energy to manage, so having more skills is actually mitigated.

What I meant is that, if they introduced a pool of utility that you could choose from to customize your heal-utility-elite skills, it should keep a downside so that you don’t end with twice the utilities of other classes.

In this case, you can choose if having 2 set of utilities, but fixed, or utilities of your choice.

Example: If you have 5 Legend skill, when you swap legend you get the other legend’s 5 skills. If you pick a custom utility and a custom elite, when you swap you only swap the 2 Legend utility and the healing spell, because the utility you choose have to be consistent through both the legends skill sets.

My idea was to make an f2 key to alter weapon skills based on a legend. While it is more work for them, its more unique way opposed to a disgusting weapon swap. The uniqueness of a revenant is gone, now it is yet another warrior like class with fancy fx.

So what it has energy bar? That doesnt make him unique by any means. Necro and warrior got a bar too. Meanwhile ele still have to swap weapon to change range while revenant got it basically for free.

Why they could desing ele, engi without weapon swap but revenant failed to full fit that job? That cause his desing is poor.

As for pvp you want to camp your better legend, if youre a condition user why you would even want to swap away from Mallyx? Unless you exhausted your energy in one legend after a chained combo theres no reason to swap outside of a healing.

Shiro vs Jalis. Whats the point of Jalis? Shiro is tankier, deals more damage, provides mobility and burst. Jalis? Spin hammers spin! Spin2win unless you hit an obstacle and have to reactivate skill..srsly? Why you want to camp one legend? Thats cause revenant is badly designed. I guess the purpose of 2 healing skills is there to prevent camping situations otherwise i dont know why anyone would want to sue something else than Shiro. Weapon swap doesnt fix his major flaws. Its just bandaid, nothing else.

Tbh i prefer a system where you really have a utility swap. No cd on legend switch, shared energy so you have to be careful about spending your energy. A way to alter weapon skills? Sure thing, but not by weapon swapping. Thats what happen when you tie one weapon too close to a legend. as for no cd would be op? Slap energy cost on switching utility skills, problem solved.

skowcia.8257:

My idea was to make an f2 key to alter weapon skills based on a legend.

So basically attunement, except you also swap utilities. You basically wanted Revenant to be an underpowered Elementalist.
0 originality and still the same problems I addressed in my previous post (what if I want to keep the same weaponskills/range with a different legend? What if I simply want to get some energy back or breakstun without having to use a different set of skills/weapon?)

That’s actually even worse then I imagined.

I prefer Revenant’s class mechanic to be independent from weaponswap. If that’s not fine with you, then go play Elementslist, since it’s basically what you want.

Cus weaponswap is sooo original right?. Really? You dismiss it on the start without looking at bigger picture. What else to say? Why it would be a worse attunement?

You would gain 10 weapon skills (total 25) as opposed to current weapon swap with 20. An upkeep ability to wield mist weapon which would synergy well with your legend. Pair that with legend modifing your weapon skills a bit to synegy them better and youre set.

But weapon swap was so easy to do and lazy at same time. Why bother? So much work right?

skowcia.8257:

Cus weaponswap is sooo original right?

It’s a base class mechanic. Do you want it removed from Necromancer as well because it’s not original? After all Necromancers already get a new set of weaponskills with F1.

Seriously, you want a worse machanic for the sake of originality? No, thanks.

skowcia.8257:

cut

Do I need to repeat myself?
Elementalist wannabe with heavy armor and less customization. Plus unwanted behaviour, forcing you to change skills when you swap legend.
Assuming your idea can be somewhat useful, you need some ranged modes on melee weapons. This way you force people to go ranged when they simply want to swap utility skills. It’s exactly like changing weapon based on current legend, and it’s bad (plus it needs more work for no benefits at all).

You’re not getting any better. Go play Elementalis, because they have exactly the machanic you want.

Zzzzz. Show me where in pvp ele has ranged options with d/d. Conjures? Lets stop here.

Necromancers has second bar, its a huge difference. I dont even know where you getting that ele picture from, but well no point to argue with someone that thinks 3seconds = 40 energy. Its simply against the basic of mathematic.