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Posted by: Wandelaar.3746

Wandelaar.3746

Hey everyone,
Some of the regulars here might remember me from the posts I have consistently been putting out after beta weekends.
I will be writing in depth feedback on the revenant again so prepare yourself for another wall of text.

If you just want to watch the video: here it is: https://youtu.be/N17A9qzvgyw

I spent quite a lot of time on the revenant this time, and this time it felt quite similar to what it was in the previous beta weekend, apart from the condition and celestial build, but more about that later.

I’ll start by systematically going through each legend, traits included, followed by the assorted weapon(s).

Starting off with Mallyx. Mallyx used to be my favorite legend since the first testing weekend.
The corruption line seems to still be in a good place, as it offers an interesting mix of traits, and this hasn’t changed that much since the first beta weekend.

Mallyx used to be one of the most thematically fitting legends with a distinctive high risk reward principle, but the recent changes made Mallyx feel like something way more bland and way less unique as a class to play. The healing skill used to be able to heal for 10k if you played aggressively, but now they just increased to base heal and decreased the additional healing for each condition on you, it was made less interesting to play with. Don’t get me wrong though, the changes to the displacement of Unyielding Anguish were needed, because the displace mechanic messed up a lot of stuff, and the mechanic was quite broken, but when they changed this skill, they nerfed it in its torment application too. It used to be able to apply 6 stacks of torment in the first hit (if you had 3 conditions on you) but now, even if someone stands in it for the entire duration, they’ll only have 5 torment, that’s not how it’s supposed to work, is it? Banish enchantment had its confusion application normalized, which made it feel like there is even less play to it, and this weakens your burst skill. The changes to the elite are sad, using a 7 energy upkeep skill to pulse torment is just not worth it, the only reason you would activate it would be to proc on elite traits and runes, or to get it for the stat increase, which is more important for power builds. The elite was what made Mallyx this iconic, and it’s sad to see it in its current state.

Mace and axe feel quite good, but while all weapons got access to new evades during their mist skills, mace and axe feel a bit left out as they get no evades or anything, but this might not be a bad thing as they’re certainly not weak in their current state. The removal of the significant defensive part on Unyielding Anguish made you a vulnerable target that has no way to escape focus, or to stall, which is also an issue now when playing Mallyx.

Let’s look at Jalis now: Jalis feels like it’s in the spot it should be in, the legend offers good party wide damage mitigation through the Elite, and the taunt is a bit more spammable now. The Jalis legend feels like a solid choice, but it gets outshined by other legends that are more vital in many builds, in short, glint feels like a better version of Jalis, offering aoe protection uptime, aoe swiftness, aoe boon duration and even some might for damage. . If you can however make good use of the party wide damage reduction, I can see this getting picked up by lots of people in raids for example.

The trait line is extremely strong, giving access to lots of damage reduction, healing, stability, extra endurance and even protection. This trait line makes you feel quite tanky even if you’re running berserker builds, and this is what makes revenant feel too strong in my opinion, combined with the protection and heal overload in Glint, in some instances in my video I manage to survive against 4+ people running a zerker build, this feels wrong. The grandmasters are a bit weak, but the other traits are extremely strong.

On to hammer: I’m loving the hammer, although the damage is quite easily avoided in theory, you’ll find that the low cooldowns make it impossible for enemies to avoid everything, it even offers good evade uptime with the Phase Smash. Staff might compete with hammer if you’re aiming for 1v1’s, but if you’re planning on doing outnumbered stuff in WvW, the hammer feels like the superior pick. The damage is top notch and might be a bit too high on the coalescence of ruin (hammer 2 skill), whereas the other feel way weaker in terms of raw damage.

Let’s discuss Ventari now. I have tried to run a cleric’s revenant again in some instances, and the healing was quite but you ran out of energy really quick, offering heals in short bursts when you had energy again, or offering no heals if you wanted to upkeep the projectile deflect, but you were quite vulnerable while you were in Ventari, as you didn’t have any stunbreaks or a reliable way to avoid taking damage, you also don’t really get a second heal like the other legends would offer, but your second heal just becomes summoning a tablet which made Ventari feel not useful enough if people found out you were actually quite vulnerable while healing others.

The trait line that accompanies Ventari is in a healthy place, offering lots of modifiers you really need, but this line is only worth taking if you’re running a healing oriented build, it doesn’t feel like this trait line can be used without picking up the actual legend or weapons like the other trait lines can. which is rather sad, but at least it’s not bad at doing what it’s supposed to do.

The staff is a good weapon and it feels like it’s a great swap, because of the great damage on the fifth skill, and the reliable block, the autoattacks felt a bit weak compared to hammer and sword, but the rest of the skillset makes up for that. The block is great, the heal and condi cleanse is very helpful as revenant is very weak to conditions (if you decide not to be immune against them by speccing Mallyx)
A solid option as a weapon swap, a weapon to pick up as your secondary weapon.
To Be Continued

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Posted by: Wandelaar.3746

Wandelaar.3746

Continued:
Time for Shiro! Shiro is the most vital legend if you’re running around in world versus world because of the mobility that is indispensable for running around in world versus world, and the stunbreak that saved my life more often than I would like to admit.
Every single skill is excellent in this legend, but while riposting shadows is not that much of a balance offender, phase traversal is. This now offers a 1200 range shadowstep without a cooldown as long as there is something you can target. I think the energy cost and the range of the skill were balanced based on the way it worked before it was changed to work like infiltrator signet, so, while it is fun to be literally uncatchable and being able to go from the mid point to the home point in PvP in a second, this is not balanced. And I feel like either the energy cost should be increased, and/or the range should be reduced. There is absolutely no need for tactical gameplay if you can get from home point to Mid in seconds, I was in fact very surprised to see it in this overpowered state again in this beta weekend. The healing skill is still in a controversial spot, but I think this skill too is borderline overpowered, the initial heal is low, but the total heal is quite good, but more importantly, this heal does about 5300 additional damage, giving you access to crazy burst when you use that skill. This heal is the only thing that makes you able to burst really hard.

I still like the trait line, it’s well balanced and I like the lifesteal and vulnerability idea, it is strong, but the lifesteal idea is a nice way to sustain yourself.
Revenant sword feels like the main damage weapon for power oriented builds, the precision strike even feels very useful. The autoattack chain still suffers from the setback that it’s got a blockable projectile in its chain, which makes you unable to progress your autoattack if someone decides to stand in a Ventari tablet deflect for example, or when someone is getting ressed up by a guardian. I would therefore suggest to make this part of the chain unblockable so you can actually cycle through it in these situation.

Unrelenting assault still felt too strong in 1v1s, the cooldown got upped, but I feel like it would not be too big of a nerf to get rid of the might generation on that skill, as it really does everything in its current state.

Offhand sword is one of the better offhand options, but there is almost no
situation in which you would get a sword instead of a shield. Shield offers lots of sustain combined with blocks. Sword 5 is not reliable, so you just feel like you’re just wasting energy if you use that skill quite often, the concept for the sword 5 skill is nice though.

Time for invocation. This trait line is focused on fury, which is not a bad theme, but it doesn’t benefit conditions nearly as much as it benefits direct damage which is a shame, a trait that would add condition duration during fury or anything that benefits conditions too would be nice, similar to the 150 condition damage trait during fury warriors get access too. The trait line offers a bit of everything, like on condition cleanse on a 10 second cooldown gated on your legend swap, and okay traits, it doesn’t really stand out as much as it did when you needed it to make your legend swap instant. This feels good if you’re running power builds, but it feels underwhelming on condition builds. And it really feels like condition and hybrid builds need some love to get to the same level as the power builds.
To be continued —>

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Posted by: Wandelaar.3746

Wandelaar.3746

Continued:

Now, let’s go on to herald. The facets were already really strong in the previous beta weekend, this has not really changed. The legend itself was very, very strong. It felt like one of the strongest legends (if not the strongest) even if you were alone, although all the boons get shared out to 5 people in range.

The heal offered useful regeneration and a heal similar to defiant stance, turning all incoming damage (including condition damage) into healing. The skill was better than it was on paper, and was better than defiant stance for several reasons. The main one is the fact that it doesn’t have a cast time, this is what made defiant stance useless and makes this viable. The other one is a less positive one though, the complete lack of a tell when infuse light was on you. You can obviously see an orange glowing aura when a warrior uses endure pain, which tells everyone hitting him is useless during that time. But infuse light lacks this tell, all it has is some small blue-ish ray flowing into you at the start, but other than that, there was no way to tell if a revenant had that heal up except for the tool tip stating he had. so if people didn’t have the revenant selected, they had no way of telling they were actually healing him. This could use some proper aura or a tell that is more obvious.

The elite also has a quite peculiar issue, I’ve gotten comments from some people telling me: “the Herald is the true chronomancer, as it bends people’s frames”. Every single time the glint elite was cast, the ground particle effect caused everyone to lose more than 20 fps. I guess the animation could be toned down a bit for people with animations on low?

Shield was good, very good, now that the counterplay against the shield block is gone, this felt like a third healing skill on the revenant, rivaling the power of 30s healing cooldowns like shelter as it comes close to the amount of healing offered by shelter, and also offering a 4s block. Shield 4 was quite good, although it’s not that unique of a skill, it was a nice extra heal.

The trait line had some good minor traits, and good adept traits, although hardening persistence seemed to be giving more stacks than you should be getting (I was getting 8 stacks where I should have only been getting 3. I think it’s quite striking that the protection on healing skill trait is still there which just pretty much made your glint heal worse (as the protection reduces the heal you get from the glint heal. I would therefore suggest changing it to granting a boon based on the legend you are in when using a healing skill, giving might/fury in Shiro and protection/retaliation in Jalis, this would make the trait good without changing the general concept. The shared empowerment seemed to be rather weak, but it was you only option if you were not playing in big groups so you were obliged to take it. The boon duration increase from soothing bastion also did not seem to work when I tried it out.

All in all the most striking thing about the Glint legend was how it was hard to get rid of your energy. The upkeep costs were quite low, and the activations were free. So if you desperately needed the second part of the upkeep, you had no way to get rid of your energy. This just doesn’t feel like it is as it is supposed to be. Other legends have an initial starting cost to start an upkeep which would not be out of place, giving the activations a cost would also not be surprising and even justified. Making it so the passive part has to be active for at least a second before being able to use the second part and not allowing doubletap might also help balancing it out.

In general, herald makes the vanilla revenant feel weak, the herald trait line and facet of nature feels like the arcane specialization line for the elementalist, as invocation doesn’t really fill that niche. It feels like revenant with boons where you would otherwise have none, it feels like nothing but an upgrade, even if you just get the specialization for the new facet of nature. The additional boon duration also helps greatly with the resistance uptime. Even for soloing, the boons from facet of nature seem to be your best option even though it shares those boons out to 5 people.

Some bugs I encountered were:
-Mace 2 and hammer 2 not working on slopes.
- The boon duration increase from soothing bastion did not seem to work when I tried it.

This class went from pretty underpowered to over the top quite fast, being overpowered is not fun, there is no glory in winning. This is why I won’t be asking for buffs from a PvP perspective. It’s not like the whole revenant concept is too strong for WvW and PvP, but the sustain felt too good. I felt like I could out sustain about every build, while I still put out some good damage.

Feel free to tell me what you think of the Revenant and my feedback, thanks!

Thanks for the great work Roy! \o/
And thanks for reading this through!

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Posted by: Zera.8907

Zera.8907

“Dis gone be gud!”

Seriously though I was waiting for you to drop this man! Your last couple of videos were amazing and I’m sure this one will not disappoint. Just watched it, this is what I am to be on my Rev when solo roaming. You’re a beast! I love the style and mechanics of Shiro and Glint is just the icing on the cake. I too am looking forward to the 23rd to start a new journey on the Revenant! Reading your text your mentioned staff as a potential sub weapon, do you have any footage of you using S/S and Staff? If so how did that combo work out for you?

Blackgate: Zera Mithrandir- Reaper| Zera Targaryen-Mes|Zera Naharis – Ranger|

(edited by Zera.8907)

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Posted by: Wandelaar.3746

Wandelaar.3746

Thanks a lot man, hearing that kind of feedback really makes my day. I might make another video, and i’l try to put some of my staff footage in there. Cheers!

“Dis gone be gud!”

Seriously though I was waiting for you to drop this man! Your last couple of videos were amazing and I’m sure this one will not disappoint. Just watched it, this is what I am to be on my Rev when solo roaming. You’re a beast! I love the style and mechanics of Shiro and Glint is just the icing on the cake. I too am looking forward to the 23rd to start a new journey on the Revenant! Reading your text your mentioned staff as a potential sub weapon, do you have any footage of you using S/S and Staff? If so how did that combo work out for you?

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Posted by: Drizzy.1268

Drizzy.1268

Good video and class review.
Played a similar build all weekend.
One thing i cant wrap my mind around is proccing weaponswap sigils on both, legend- and weaponswap.
I did plan to use double energy/cleansing until i realized the legend swap thing, now it seems like a waste on one side, but hard to micromanage 4 different sigils on the other.
Wanted to use weaponswaps to remove i.e. high burning stacks from burnguards.

[BNF] – Bitte Nicht Füttern
https://www.youtube.com/user/Drizzlebob

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Posted by: Zera.8907

Zera.8907

Blackgate: Zera Mithrandir- Reaper| Zera Targaryen-Mes|Zera Naharis – Ranger|

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Posted by: Warscythes.9307

Warscythes.9307

I am not sure why you are linking that when the video creator himself agree Rev is over the top.

This class went from pretty underpowered to over the top quite fast, being overpowered is not fun, there is no glory in winning. This is why I won’t be asking for buffs from a PvP perspective. It’s not like the whole revenant concept is too strong for WvW and PvP, but the sustain felt too good. I felt like I could out sustain about every build, while I still put out some good damage.

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Posted by: Wandelaar.3746

Wandelaar.3746

Aw, never thought I would get this much hate in terms of dislike and stuff… :/

(edited by Wandelaar.3746)

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Posted by: Rain.9213

Rain.9213

Aw, never thought I would get this much hate in terms of dislike and stuff… :/

People feel their OPness being threatened and therefore want to defend it no matter what because they don’t want to become like the class they left for Revenant. So don’t feel too bad.

I agree with you that in it’s current state, winning a fight with Revenant doesn’t feel too satisfying as certain aspects of it are very strong.

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Posted by: Cyrus.4105

Cyrus.4105

although hardening persistence seemed to be giving more stacks than you should be getting (I was getting 8 stacks where I should have only been getting 3.

No, 8 is correct.

The trait doesn’t simply give stacks from each pip of degeneration, but rather each point of upkeep you’ve currently got rolling. Your base regen is 5, so to reach -3 you have to be using 8 upkeep points.


Cyrus Neveris – Watchers of the Vale [WoV]

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Posted by: Wandelaar.3746

Wandelaar.3746

although hardening persistence seemed to be giving more stacks than you should be getting (I was getting 8 stacks where I should have only been getting 3.

No, 8 is correct.

The trait doesn’t simply give stacks from each pip of degeneration, but rather each point of upkeep you’ve currently got rolling. Your base regen is 5, so to reach -3 you have to be using 8 upkeep points.

When just upkeeping the swiftness and Facet of nature, I had +2 energy regen, but still got 8 stacks, from time to time. I’ll see if I can find an example in my footage.

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Posted by: Cyrus.4105

Cyrus.4105

although hardening persistence seemed to be giving more stacks than you should be getting (I was getting 8 stacks where I should have only been getting 3.

No, 8 is correct.

The trait doesn’t simply give stacks from each pip of degeneration, but rather each point of upkeep you’ve currently got rolling. Your base regen is 5, so to reach -3 you have to be using 8 upkeep points.

When just upkeeping the swiftness and Facet of nature, I had +2 energy regen, but still got 8 stacks, from time to time. I’ll see if I can find an example in my footage.

Now that’s strange. Check it out in your footage, see if there’s any way to reproduce that.

Bear in mind that at a glance 3 and 8 look annoyingly similar in this game, especially on small icons.


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Posted by: fluidmonolith.3584

fluidmonolith.3584

Great video again!

I have also been playing Revenant heavily through all three BWEs (though I am probably not as skilled as OP), and I do share the unpopular opinion that a few aspects of the Revenant need to be toned down a bit (though others need to be improved).

On my list is:
-Sword#3 – it needs to be good because it’s the sword’s primary damage skill, other than auto-attack. But I’m not sure that it needs to provide awesome mitigation and hard to avoid burst damage (and might) all at once. I think the best solution is to perhaps cut the number of strikes in half (3 or 4), double the damage of each strike, and probably double the might stacks from each strike. Then most of the attack could be avoided in a single dodge, and burst stacking from the Shiro heal when using UA would be reduced.
-phase traversal. This is a really fun skill and don’t want it to be nerfed in a way that makes it unfun. I previously supported giving it a short cooldown, but am instead starting to think that a small energy cost increase (e.g. to 25 energy) may be better.

I agree with OP about Mallyx and Jalis. Mallyx lost a lot of tactics and flavor after BWE2. I think the biggest problem with Jalis is cast times (or other time delays). There is a long delay on stability from Inspiring Reinforcement and the elite, while giving good damage reduction, also has a long cast. While Glint gives a powerful emergency heal that can take you from 1-100 in the right situation, Jalis has no emergency skills – this is probably why Jalis feels less tanky than Glint.

I also agree with OP about the Salvation line. It’s only worthwhile to take in a dedicated healing build. However, I am not okay with this. I don’t think any traitlines in other professions are solely dedicated to healing. Salvation has traits that aren’t focused on healing … but they are very few and generally not very good (long ICD on disarming riposte, and Momentary Pacification doesn’t work well with most elites).

Maguuma
Astaxanthas (Revenant), Hepaticus (Engineer), Eosinophus (Thief)

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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

Loved the video and I agree with mostly everything
Some things I’d like to see changed on Rev, though:

- Hammer #2 does a bit too much damage; every other skill is fine I think.
- Sword, aside from bugginess on #3, is fine IMO. It’s strong in 1v1s, but not impossible to counter and it’s pretty much the only big skill to watch out for in MH sword aside from the autos. #5 definitely needs something to make it more reliable, though. I think increasing the range would make it a lot better.
- Totally agree with Wandelaar on Mallyx, Jalis, and Ventari and their respective specializations.
- Glint Heal totally needs a bigger sign of sorts. It needs to scream “DON’T ATTACK ME”. As is, it can get buried in effects.
- Phase Traversal I think is fine for the most part. I’d rather they just increase the energy cost a bit or lower the range to like 1000 or something, but don’t give it a cooldown. I think it’s about time we get another class with good chasing potential instead of having all these guys running away and resetting every 5 seconds. If I want to use up all my energy to chase someone and then not have my swap available for another 10 seconds, I should be able to.
- I think Shield’s healing should be toned down a bit if you’re not running Healing Power or increase the energy cost of Shield #5.

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Posted by: nacario.9417

nacario.9417

Where his opponents of equal skill? I havent seen it cuz im on my smartphone but this reeks ppl being clueless, 4 berserkers vs 1.

Power Ranger PvP
I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore

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Posted by: Wandelaar.3746

Wandelaar.3746

Where his opponents of equal skill? I havent seen it cuz im on my smartphone but this reeks ppl being clueless, 4 berserkers vs 1.

You can’t win a 1v4 against equally skilled people, or at least not if the class you play is even remotely balanced.