Guild Wars 2

I’ll try and keep this extremely brief and to the point.

Problem 1: No weapon swap means legend 1 may be using a proper weapon, but legend 2 may be stuck with a sub-optimal weapon.

My Suggested Fix: Allow Rev to equip 2 weapons. Weapon 1 is linked to Legend 1, and Weapon 2 to Legend 2. Whenever Rev Legend Swaps, the Weapon is automatically swapped at well. If only 1 weapon is equipped, it is used by both Legends.

Problem 2: Energy regen is based on spamming Legend Swap every 10s to recharge up to 50 energy. This makes Revs predictable, and is limiting.

My Suggested Fix: Increase energy regen to 8 or 9/s. Make Legend swapping no longer bring you up to 50 energy if below, but it will bring down to 50 if above.

Yeah, its brief, but I was intentionally trying to avoid writing a book here. Thoughts?

A much better solution would be to change what the types of effects the weapon you are currently using to match the legend akin to Elementalist rather than forcing a weapon swap upon Legend swap. This wouldn’t force you to use weapons you don’t necessarily like and makes more sense.

For example, when using Staff and Mallyx, instead of the orbs healing allies, it’d place a condition such as poison onto the enemy. If you’re using Jallis, then the orbs apply Protection. Ventair would be the traditional healing.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

A much better solution would be to change what the types of effects the weapon you are currently using to match the legend akin to Elementalist rather than forcing a weapon swap upon Legend swap. This wouldn’t force you to use weapons you don’t necessarily like and makes more sense.

For example, when using Staff and Mallyx, instead of the orbs healing allies, it’d place a condition such as poison onto the enemy. If you’re using Jallis, then the orbs apply Protection. Ventair would be the traditional healing.

This isn’t exactly better. A lot of people are clamoring for Revs to have a way to swap between ranged and melee in-combat. Trying to make it so every weapon changes all its skills on Legend Swap is a LOT of work just to design and implement, not to mention balance. It’s somewhat unrealistic at this phase.

Under my suggestion, the role is defined by the legend but the range is defined by your weapon, so you can mix and match.

For example:
Jalis + Hammer: Ranged Tank
Mally + Mace: Melee Condi

It’s also probably a lot less work to try and allow a second weapon and bind them to legends, than it is to create 5 new skills x 5 legends x 3+ weapons

And what if I wanted to use Jalis but do not want to use range? What if I switched to Jalis and then I can’t use Range because of projectile reflection, which now I’m stuck at range for the time being?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

And what if I wanted to use Jalis but do not want to use range?

Then equip a melee weapon onto Jalis.

What if I switched to Jalis and then I can’t use Range because of projectile reflection, which now I’m stuck at range for the time being?

Then you encounter the same issue as a ranger who JUUST swapped to LB and has to wait till swap CD is up to change out. Or the same issue as anyone who swaps carelessly, really.

It’s part of why I support removing energy gain on legend swap, because that effectively FORCES legend swaps, making the legend usage another button in your ‘rotation’ and not a ‘mode/stance’

Dand.8231:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

And what if I wanted to use Jalis but do not want to use range?

Then equip a melee weapon onto Jalis.

What if I switched to Jalis and then I can’t use Range because of projectile reflection, which now I’m stuck at range for the time being?

Then you encounter the same issue as a ranger who JUUST swapped to LB and has to wait till swap CD is up to change out. Or the same issue as anyone who swaps carelessly, really.

It’s part of why I support removing energy gain on legend swap, because that effectively FORCES legend swaps, making the legend usage another button in your ‘rotation’ and not a ‘mode/stance’

Okay, I understand you now. I thought you meant that the weapons would be a set fix to the Legend. For example, Jalis has to be a hammer only or Ventair has to be staff only.

Personally, I’d rather Revenant stick to a mode/stance rather than a rotation. I hate the way D/D Elems have to rotate their attunements to be effective as it is. Another class doing that wouldn’t be that fun either.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Personally, I’d rather Revenant stick to a mode/stance rather than a rotation. I hate the way D/D Elems have to rotate their attunements to be effective as it is. Another class doing that wouldn’t be that fun either.

It’s less of a deal, if not absolutely required, for the engineer – particularly for generating fields and finishers – but their kits are hardly on a cooldown. I would not mind if the revenant did more legendary dancing that produced a more dynamic playstyle than we currently have for the revenant.

Dand.8231:

I’ll try and keep this extremely brief and to the point.

Problem 1: No weapon swap means legend 1 may be using a proper weapon, but legend 2 may be stuck with a sub-optimal weapon.

My Suggested Fix: Allow Rev to equip 2 weapons. Weapon 1 is linked to Legend 1, and Weapon 2 to Legend 2. Whenever Rev Legend Swaps, the Weapon is automatically swapped at well. If only 1 weapon is equipped, it is used by both Legends.

Problem 2: Energy regen is based on spamming Legend Swap every 10s to recharge up to 50 energy. This makes Revs predictable, and is limiting.

My Suggested Fix: Increase energy regen to 8 or 9/s. Make Legend swapping no longer bring you up to 50 energy if below, but it will bring down to 50 if above.

Yeah, its brief, but I was intentionally trying to avoid writing a book here. Thoughts?

The best and easiest way would still just be to implement normal weapon swap.

This is because even if you tie the weapon to the legend the utilities of the legend itself may still not work with the gear you’re using.

For example demon stance is not useful when you are geared for dps.
Centaur stance is not useful when you are not geared for support.
etc.

The best way is just to simply let people fully customize the utilities and have a normal weapon swap and have the utilities behave according to the stance taken.

Or if they don’t want to do weapon swap and have enough time to develop I would prefer them implement a system similar to elementalist attunement where the one weapon set you have equipped behaves totally differently according to the current legend.

For example Hammer #1 could be ranged under Centaur and Demon stance but turn into cleaving melee under Shiro and Dwarf Stance. etc.

That would make the 1 weapon set more versatile and less restrictive.

If they don’t implement a weapon swap or ele attunement like system and keep the core overall system like it is now I will personally not be very pleased with the Revenant.

If they had the time to redesign weapon skills with each legend in mind I would say have each legend cause your equipped weapon to have a different set of skills (like elementalist)

However since time is a factor I would say they should simply make legend swap also swap your weapon if you have a second weapon set.

As for the energy regeneration, it should just be time based. (possibly with some traits to speed it up via specific effects like on crits or when hit) Forcing the rev to swap to regenerate energy with any efficiency is just bad design wise.

Dand.8231:

It’s also probably a lot less work to try and allow a second weapon and bind them to legends, than it is to create 5 new skills x 5 legends x 3+ weapons

we should not care about work – the class has to be fun to play thats the main point.

And we dont need complete new Skills – we just need new Effects on the existing ones (CDs dmg whatever could stay the same but the Effect of a skill should change – like it does millions of times with traits and stuff)

if an Mace 1 doesnt apply torment / Poison but give you 1s vigor istead if you are on Jalis thats not a big deal to change – nobody must create new skill icons or animations – just implement an legend-connected effect and every thing is fine

My solution would be to remove special effects from weapons (conditions, healing, stuns, etc) and put those effects on traits. That way you can use whatever legend you want while getting the effects you want passively. Those passive weapon effects would be augmented by whichever legend you use.

• Want to do ranged DPS? Take hammer, equip Shiro traits.
• Want to do melee DPS? Take axe/mace, equip Shiro traits.
• Want to do ranged condi? Take hammer, equip Mallyx traits.
• Want to do both power and condi dps? Take Mallyx and Shiro traits. Pick suitable weapon…
• Etc, etc…

Weapon difference would come from the range, attack speed, animation, and style. Effectiveness would depend purely on the traits. No need for weapon swapping. you retain the trait effects regardless of current legend. Current legend only affects utility skills.

I really don’t see the issue.

Let’s say Shiro becomes a melee based legendary that favors using two swords and you build yourself as a melee DPS character. You are still able to deal damage with said swords when you switch to a different legend. Jalis actually has some quite high AoE damage with Vengeful Hammers to boot. If you happen to use Mallyx instead, you have the option to give yourself resistance to negate incoming weakness for example and are able to deal full normal melee damage. Embrace the Darkness even gives you 10% to all stats. This includes power, precision and ferocity. Weapons aren’t tied to legends.

I can see people having issues with not being able to melee and swapping to a ranged option mid-combat but I think this is just part of the class. Giving Revenants the ability to weapon swap would make it one clunky mess. More than it currently is with the slow animation on legend swapping.

tl;dr
The utilities of legends are just that, utilities. You can use them just fine no matter what weapon you use. They aren’t rotational abilities you are forced to use with your equipped weapons.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Okay, I understand you now. I thought you meant that the weapons would be a set fix to the Legend. For example, Jalis has to be a hammer only or Ventair has to be staff only.

Personally, I’d rather Revenant stick to a mode/stance rather than a rotation. I hate the way D/D Elems have to rotate their attunements to be effective as it is. Another class doing that wouldn’t be that fun either.

That’s what makes elementalist fun if you ask me. I don’t think it will work for revenant though unless they plan on adding a an equal amount of skills. Right now Revenant has the short end of the stick with no weapon swapping and static util swapping giving it overall lower total skills than any other profession.

Xenon.4537:

My solution would be to remove special effects from weapons (conditions, healing, stuns, etc) and put those effects on traits. That way you can use whatever legend you want while getting the effects you want passively. Those passive weapon effects would be augmented by whichever legend you use.

• Want to do ranged DPS? Take hammer, equip Shiro traits.
• Want to do melee DPS? Take axe/mace, equip Shiro traits.
• Want to do ranged condi? Take hammer, equip Mallyx traits.
• Want to do both power and condi dps? Take Mallyx and Shiro traits. Pick suitable weapon…
• Etc, etc…

Weapon difference would come from the range, attack speed, animation, and style. Effectiveness would depend purely on the traits. No need for weapon swapping. you retain the trait effects regardless of current legend. Current legend only affects utility skills.

This is the solution I was thinking of too, I like it. The traits could be made very strong if the base weapon effects and damage modifiers are reduced. Yes, this would require that Revs always use a specific trait line (e.g. Shiro if they want to do high direct damage) … but that will probably be true anyways.

It probably doesn’t take too much modification for condition damage weapons – the June 23rd patch that really made condition damage weak without any condi damage stat. This means that conditions probably don’t need to be removed from mace, the direct damage just needs to be increased. In a power build those conditions contribute very little (except for the healing reduction on poison).

Linking weapon to legend is a bad idea. Legend swapping is needed to regen energy, get a particular skill, double heal or even stun break. Weapon swapping is needed in different situations.

I may want to swap weapon while keeping my toggle skill, or swap legend while keeping a eanged weapon.

The “sub optimal” stuff depends on how you build. And hammer and mace seem the same with every legend. The only dedicated one is staff, but at the moment every weapon is useless with the tablet, so staff is just the healer weapon, it just happens that Ventari is the healer legend. They don’t really have so much sinergy.

But regardless linking weapon to a legend is really bad and lowers customization, that is already low with Revenant.

Please stop bringing it up in every thread. There are 6 thread with people suggesting to swap weapon on legend swap, and it’s a really bad idea, much inferior to regulat weaponswap, so just ask for weaponswap.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Forcing the rev to swap to regenerate energy with any efficiency is just bad design wise.

I do not agree. It’s actually pretty smart to give reasons to use the main class mechanic. They even did it with war in the last patch. Plus if you trait it, then legend swap (as thief steal) can become a useful slill, with buffs, stunbreaks and so on.

If you don’t design it that way, people won’t use it, making every class the same.
plus the lack of customization on skills is replaced by the legend swap, so of course you should get benefits from that, since you lose time swapping

Kidel.2057:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Forcing the rev to swap to regenerate energy with any efficiency is just bad design wise.

I do not agree. It’s actually pretty smart to give reasons to use the main class mechanic. They even did it with war in the last patch. Plus if you trait it, then legend swap (as thief steal) can become a useful slill, with buffs, stunbreaks and so on.

If you don’t design it that way, people won’t use it, making every class the same.
plus the lack of customization on skills is replaced by the legend swap, so of course you should get benefits from that, since you lose time swapping

I think it should be possible to make successful builds that swap legends frequently as well as successful build that do not. Currently, however, it is difficult to make a successful build that camps a single legend. The only advantage in doing so is to pool energy for upkeep skills or unleashing a quick chain of high-energy-cost skills.

I think we can address this by reducing the energy regen from legend swap (e.g. reset it to 30 instead of 50) and then also reduce energy cost of abilities to compensate. A trait could be selected to increase the legend swap reset back to 50 energy. This way we can have builds that specialize in legend swapping frequently (by taking the trait) as well as builds that can define themselves around specific utility skills in specific legends that benefit from sitting in a single legend for an extended period of time.

For example, if I want to build around Mallyx ‘Embrace the Darkness’ then I may want to stay in Mallyx stance until I have nearly 100 energy, then activate my elite for maximum uptime. Being nearly required to swap legends every 10 seconds because it’s such a strong source of energy regen makes this impractical.