Guild Wars 2

Here is my feedback on the Revenant.
Wall of text incoming!

First, i must say that thematically, the Revenant is cool, especially for GW1 players like me.

The problem lies in its design i think.

I agree with people on the fact that energy is a problem right now. Something is wrong with weapons AND utilities pumping on it.
Weapon skills are between 5 and 15 energy cost right now.
This is probably due to the old “no weapon swap” design. We needed the energy cost to compensate the low CDs to compete with normal weapon swap classes (a bit like Thief initiative).
Now that they changed it, energy cost on weapon skills is not justified anymore.

Two things comes to my mind to cover this :
- no energy on weapon skills, only CDs and energy kept only for utilities.
or
- 100 energy as a base (compared to the 50 right now)

All utilites costs between 20 and 35 energy (even 50 for Jalis forced engagment). It means you can’t use more than twice a utility IF you are at 100 energy (sitting on it for 10 seconds only auto attacking).

Revenant lack boons, stun breaks and stability access.
We can’t afford to use a dodge roll to get stability in pvp, and inspired reinfocement has 2 seconds stability application delay.
The only boons we have access to are Fury and Might, especially with Shiro. And that is okay.
BUT we have almost no access to retaliation or protection (crappy access with Jalis and it is again on dodge roll or getting CCed).
A poor access to regeneration with salavation trait line that forces you to use Ventari tablet…
Only Mallyx has access to resistance and it’s good because it’s Mallyx theme, as a condi manipulator.
But other legends lack access to usefull boons.

Traits :

They are a big part of the lack of identity of Revenant and legends. Half Revenant traits are too simple and adds nothing to legends. Note that only Salvation trait line gives something to weapons (staff). there is no CD reduction for any weapon on any trait line.

Corruption :

Minors are good, theyè merge well with Mallyx Theme.

Tier 1 :
Venom enhancement is just a lazy trait, increased venom duration and…that’s all.
Replenishing despair is weak, but well the idea is not bad.
Demonic defiance is good as it emphasis the fact that Mallyx ignore conditions on himself.

Tier 2 : Bolstered anguish is good as it can support a dps build using Corruption trait line.
Spontaneous destruction is good too. Frigid precision is completely useless and out of theme.

Tier 3 : Pulsating pestilence is good as it adds more condi transfert (as you can transfert only one stack per pulse). Maniacal persistance is uninspired, especially with all the fury we have access to and the fury enhancment of Invocation trait line.

Punition
Minors are good too, damage reduction, stability on dodge and endurance gain.

Tier 1 :
Planar protection is a generic falling damage reduction, nothing to add.
Close quarter is a good idea but a bit simple.
Improved aggression is completely useless as a semi pve skill on a taunt we have poor access to.

Tier 2 :
Eye for an Eye is a CC’ed traits, not really usefull imo.
Retaliatory Evasion… 2 seconds retal on dodge…2 seconds and it’s our only access to retaliation…
Redeeming protection…same as above, 3 seconds protection on CC, our only access to Protection…

Tier 3 :
Empowering vengeance, gain 2 might on hit while under our 2 seconds dodgeroll retal? and why giving access to might on Jalis trait line…supposed to be more defensive. (yes i don’t forget the old trait system as all the classic classes still have almost the same traits as before the big trait patch)
Reflexive summon is bugged the same way Vengefull hammer is, even more sometimes with reports of hammer popping on different platforms than the owner.
Steadfast rejuvenation, same as Corruption Tier 1 but 50% chance on hit and a better heal…good but

not worth a tier 3 imo.

Redemption
The Ventary trait line, supposed to help life regen and staff.

Minors : blind on hit while ennemy is using a skill is not bad, Hardened fondation is useless as no one builds healing power. Serene Rejuvenation adds to the healing capacities and is only usefull with the tablet and a little with the staff.

Tier 1 :
Nourishing Roots one of our 2 access to regen, but only with ventari tablet out.
Blinding truth is good, another access to a defensive condi : blindness.
Tranquill balance is another generic healing improvment %, lazy trait.

Tier 2
Tranquil Benediction our second access to regen and our only access to swiftness, but only if we take the staff orbs wich means it’s a combat only boon tied to auto attack.
Elluding nullification, generic on dodge roll condi cleanse, not bad, a bit like warrior damage on

dodge roll or gardian heal on dodge. not worth a Tier 2 imo, would be better as a minor trait.
Invoking harmony : 3rd % based increased healing efficiency… like we didn’t have enough, even worst

because it’s on legend swap, so it’s usefull only if you swap to a legend that can heal allies… so Ventari…useless half of the time when you swap to your other legend.

Tier 3:
Selfless amplification : 4th % based improved healing! Talk about lack of inspiration…
Natural abundance, create a little healing fragment near the tablet when you summon it… not worth a tier 3…
Momentary Pacification, Daze on elite use, not bad, but useless with ventari elite because of cast time, same with Jalis, and Dazing petrified ennemies is stupid… only Mallyx could really take it as a bonus…

Devastation :
Our DPS traitline, good in general.

Minors : Vulnerability on hit, good if you use anything else than sword, increased damage on vulnerable target adds to trait 1, life syphon on hit, still good.

Tier 1 :
Assassin’s presence, classic passive ferocity stat boost.
Rapid laceration, 2% skill speed, 5 charge max for 10% max skill speed for sword skills. I’d rather have a cd reduction on sword skills and cd’s on weapon skills…
Malicious Reprisal, whan one attack is blocked, next 2 are unblockable…too situationnal to be usefull in any way.

Tier 2 :
Jade Echo, good but lacks the damage part of Jade winds.
Nefarious Momentum, THE might access of our DPS trait line, good trait.
Ferocious strikes, Ferocity bonus for dual wielding….copy of assassin’s presence and less good…

Tier 3 :
Swift termination, theif like executionner on an assassin legend, good but lazy.
Dismantle fortification, could be nice in pvp, but i don’t see that much control skills on revenant weapons…or maybe if you can land a Hammer5 or spam Shiro elite and it’s 50 energy cost..
Assassin’s annihilation, life syphon on hit from behind or the side…not bad, but to be honest we are not thieves, we can’t really hit someone from behind…can be good in pve vs stupid mobs though…

Invocation

The almost “must take” trait line as you have two trait lines tied to legends the third is the generic trait line for everyone.

Minors : Fury on legend swapping, good thing, more damages while under fury (adds power to previous minor like Devastation minors), breakstun on legend swap, really good and easy access to stunbreaker though forces you to swap.(it’s the core mechanic of revenant after all)

Tier 1 :
Cruel repercussion : too situationnal, not worth it.
Cleansing Channel, good little condi cleanse, still can help not bad.
Firce infusion, Fury on healing skill, good only with Shiro’s heal wich need a precast to activate it, else it’s not that good, you don’t want your fury access to be on an emergency skill.

Tier 2 :
Equilibrium, damage over energy threshold , healing under energy threshold, 50 energy threshold… you’ll never see the damages as it is now, no one will swap legends over 50 energy…especially for a weak damage. Reminds me of gardian burning on use of virtue nerfed to fixed damages…
Invigorating flow, heal on use of energy susing skill, like thief heal on initiative use…now that we can’t use more than 2 skills in a row, i don’t see how it can be usefull.
Incensed response, fury on stun break, not bad but we lack stunbreaks to really see it without Shiro.

Tier 3 :
Roiling mists, increased critical hit chance under fury, not bad with sigils and on crit effects.
Charged mist, might access on energy threshold, 2 mights under 50 energy…not really usefull with the current energy system, only if you can manage to keep energy between 49 and 51…
Shrouding mists, healing enhancement over 50 energy, damage reduction under 50, not bad but the healing part should be under 50 and the reduction over 50 as the Revenant is squishy right now, plus it compete with a Retribution trait (Determined Resolution)

Weapons :

Sword mh :
- sword 2 has low range and the chill efect isn’t usefull. A cripple would be better imo.
- sword 3 is a nice skill (like master Yi’s Q from LoL) but damages are low and the lack of evade is problematic on a skill that roots you, puts you next to your target and some of it’s damages can be negated by dodgerolls, blocks or simply multiple targets near each others.

Sword oh:
- sword 4 : one of our only defensive tool right now, nothing to say on it since the blocking bug is fixed
- sword 5 : This skill is impossible to use correctly due to GW2 pathing and terrain height problems, the idea is nice but can’t be used well.

Mace/Ax : Good Condition weapon set, good synergies between AoE and explosions, axe mobility and controls are welcome, maybe just Axe5 as a ground targeted skill instead of a direct front skill to have better control but it’s QoL.
Only real problem : lack damages in a pure dps setup

Hammer :
General hammer feel is good, hammer 5 should be faster, right now the wind up is super long and you can even fail to hit normal mobs with it if they move a little. the only good thing is that it’s so slow that you don’t even feel the energy costs as it repelenish during the animation.
My only real concern with hammer is the lack of synergy with any legend other than Ventari. The range allow you to stay far and manage the tablet from a safe spot but that’s all.
Still a nice ranged weapon.

Staff :

First of all, the dps boost was good but still a bit low imo, just personnal opinion.
Staff 1: healing orbs are impossible to see in AoE heavy fights and their collision is really small you must be right on it to take it.
Staff 2 : long wind up, not bad damages but the second part is uninspired, a little AoE weakness with the condition you hit while the ennemy was casting a skill.
Staff 3 is nice, nothing to add.
Staff 4 : Condition cleanse is nice as it is our only weapon based condi cleanse and Reve has subpar access to cleanses, BUT the root during animation and the too low heal makes it not worth using under pressure.
Staff 5 : Cool dash, good damages, knock back, nothing to say ^^

Legends

My personnal wish would be to have one more utility per legend and choose 3 out of 4 so we can customise a little our playstyle.
With traits we could have passive effects while a legend is active like 25% passive ms for Shiro, retaliation or protection on hit for Jalis etc…

Shiro :
- Nice DPS legend, with good mobility BUT right now energy costs makes it impossible to chain anything and the healing skill is completely useless. Initial heal is weak, the life syphon is low and can be blocked/evaded/blinded, the only usefull part is the precast that activate fury on heal (Fierce infusion) and stacks of might(Nefarious Momentum).
- Impossible odds pumps all your energy in 8 seconds (at 50 base, after legend swap) if you just auto, else it’s even faster. Why is it higher than any of the other upkeep skills is strange. (-10 vs -8 on all other upkeeps)
- Phase traversal(20) can be a death sentence, get stunned right after without Empty Vessel and the ennemy has 3 seconds to destroy you.
- Riposting shadows (35) costs too much especially for an emergency button.
Jade winds is good imo, the wind up is good for a potential 5 man 3sec stun.

Jalis :
Jalis is supposed to be our tanky legend and quite doesn’t feel like it. No protection, no retaliation.
- Soothing stone is good with it’s condi cleanse (yay second cleanse!) but would be even better with something like : no condi on you, higher heal, condis on you, lower heal but 2 condi cleanse
- Inspiring Reinforcement is good but too slow to complete and the Stability comes 2 seconds aftercast.
- Forced engagment (50)…. 50 energy for a long casting 3 seconds taunt…useless
- Vengefull hammers is a good skill but the collision bugs makes it stop everytime it hit a wall, couldn’t use it in the Itzel village bridges because of that.
- Rite of the great Dwarf was overnerfed. The cast time is a death sentence (hey wait before hitting me please! i’m using my emergency button!) especially on a skill i suppose must be defensive and the 50% damage reduction is pale compared to the invulnerability it was before. Note that

conditions keep ticking threw it.

Mallyx :
The best designed legend imo, good theme, using condis, corrupting ennemy boons, clear dedicated boon (resistance). The legend i feel the most confortable with and the only one with a good healing skill, even better with self condis, usefull utilities and a good elite.

Ventari :
I get the idea of Ventari, but the gameplay is extremely clunky and poor. It can’t synergize with any other legends because the tablet does not stay on legend swap, making any related trait automatically useless.
First, the tablet should appear as soon as you channel the legend, not after you use 6.
The heals are low and delayed after table movement or pulse. Purifying Essence is uninspired (simple AoE condi cleanse, nothing fancy).
Only Protective Solace is good like Gardian walls or mesmers bubbles.
Energy Expulsion has the same problem as Jalis elite, too long to cast, the tablet fragments heal is pointless and you must re-activate the tablet after…
The tablet leaves you with absolutly no self protection, in PvP it could be written “kill me” on it…
I guess they wanted to pair it with the staff, but the staff is not enough a self protection and control weapon to allow the use of the tablet especially with some duplicate skills (staff 3/Protective Solace, staff 4/Mix of natural harmony and Puryfying essence)

i guess this wall is already long enough ^^

Nice feedback, when you lay it all out like this it is easy to see how terrible Revenant traits are. They would have been lackluster back before the other class traits revamps where a bunch of terrible traits got merged together to make a decent one.

Revenants still have a pile of terrible, situational, traits.

The problem is there are many solutions to Revenant general problems. And no solution is better than the other, it’s just a matter of taste, so it’s up to A-Net to choose where they want to push the Revenant.
If people have ideas, it could be fun to discuss it

you know, you raise an interesting point, the class was never designed for you to be able to go 12345, `, 12345 through two weapon sets. Energy does act to prevent that, and maybe something should, given the way the class is designed. I don’t like the energy costs myself, but maybe there’s some sort of compromise position, like maybe they could make it so that if you weapon swap, several of the abilities on the new weapon will start out on cooldown or something. That would give you the functional versatility to being able to change weapons in combat, without giving the full versatility of a chain-swapping class.

“That would give you the functional versatility to being able to change weapons in combat, without giving the full versatility of a chain-swapping class.”

I see what you mean, but i think it would be unfair to limit the weapon swapping spamming of revenant when all other classes do not have this type of limitation.
They shouldn’t have a double ressource cost for one thing.

Look at thieves :
The have initiative to fuel their attacks
No CDs
the risk : spamming too much deplete their initiative leaving them with no attacks beside auto (they can act against that with their trait, thing that Revenant can’t do with energy)
BUT they can rely on their utilities to give them time to make for it

Now Revenant :
CDs on attacks (quite low ones but still)
energy on attacks (which make weapon skills compete with utilities for the same ressource)
the risk : beeing out of energy, leaving you with auto only or forcing you to swap to get back 50 and forcing utility change.
That wouldn’t be a problem if utilites were not locked as it is now

Right now, energy is not something we need to manage, it’s a double limitation on everything.

I agree with just about all of that. I have been doing extensive testing in PvP, WvW, and Dungeons/PvE to see what I can get out of the Revenant as well. My results….

sPvP: The ONLY viable thing I have found in Revenant right now is a Celestial Condition hybrid that I have created with the help of various other PvPing friends of mine, yet most of its skills are….power based? That doesn’t make sense. In essence, Mallyx is really all you need in PvP, and the other three legends are pointless unless you are going full bunker, by which point Ventauri is the only legend you need. Honestly I felt like Mace/Axe overall DPS is higher using Celestial and Divinity Runes than Sword/Sword, even Hammer going straight Berserker with Scholar Runes. In essence, as everyone has been saying, lower energy costs and perhaps DRAMATICALLY buff Unrelenting Assault on sword based on the amount of targets around you within Unrelenting Assault’s radius. This way, it makes it more worthwhile facing multiple targets. Staff is pretty good as it is though. Nothing needs to be nerfed with Revenant right now, but rather buffed in some way. I haven’t found a single thing “OP” with Revenant. Also it has little escape utility.

WvW: Fantastic running a bunker frontliner. It rivals the Altruistic Healing guardian hands down. I love it! Also the Celestial Hybrid I have as well works just as well in this regard too for some AoE condition to really put the pressure on enemies.

Dungeons/PvE: Wonderful utility and fair damage. But as I stated above with the PvP thing, it needs a damage buff for close quarters combat on the swords. Only reason why I am saying this is because, unfortunately the way NPC’s are and the game is designed, berserker is really the only thing you need for Dungeons. So unless you want to fundamentally change how the game is designed for PvE combat, my suggestion would be to cater to that “meta” so people will actually play the class. I don’t want to be kicked from a dungeon group because I am playing Revenant. I already had people whine about me playing Revenant in PvP, stating we would lose. This shouldn’t happen.

For your testers of balance if you decide to read this, the build I was using for PvP:

Mace/Axe, Hammer

Sigil of Blood and Doom for Mace/Axe, Leeching and Torment for Hammer.

Celestial Amulet, Divinity Runes

Shiro, Mallyx legends

Devastation – 1(Assassin’s Presence), 2(Nefarious Momentum), 3(Assassin’s Annihilation)

Corruption – 2(Demonic Defiance), 3(Spontaneous Destruction), 1(Diabolic Inferno)

Invocation – 3(Fierce Infusion), 2(Invigorating Flow), 3(Shrouding Mists)

Open with Shiro, use the heal skill, swap to Mallyx, 2, 3, 5, 4, 1, 1, 1 repeat. About the best thing I found so far. I would suggest not nerfing this for the sake of people actually wanting to play Revenant, as it’s still easily countered as well. Energy management on this build is barely an issue unless you’re facing a tanky class like a D/D ele or Bunker Guardian and boon stripping the person with Banish Enchantment.

You are right Seraphis, right now, only Mallyx is good in PvP.
Ventari makes you a major target, a big problem for a class that lacks self defense.
Shiro is squishy and has trouble using utilities to burst because you must choose between offense and defense to have energy to react.
Jallis isn’t tanky enough to buy you time to wait for your next assault as Shiro and Mallyx doesn’t really need to buy time.

Mournilg.4870:

Jallis isn’t tanky enough to buy you time to wait for your next assault as Shiro and Mallyx doesn’t really need to buy time.

This. As far as I can tell, Shiro gives more survivability then Jalis atm. Just the healing is inferior (that 1s icd on jade daggers…).

Shiro’s heal is supposed to be an offensive heal (probably to trigger Fierce infusion)
I didn’t check but i read sword 3 does not even trigger it…. so i don’t see the point because it would be the only way to “burst” heal while on Shiro stance.

If people have ideas how we can give legend a more unique feel, i’d be glad to discuss it.
If i can be proved wrong on things i stated it would be cool also.
Finding ideas and solution is an itterative process, the more paticipants, the better ^^

There are many good suggestions but also nonsense like:

• ‘Assassin’s annihilation:(…)we are not thieves, we can’t really hit someone from behind…can be good in pve vs stupid mobs though…’ — The entire skill 3 flanks with each attack plus you have 270° around the enemy that you can flank them from. Also counts vertically so if you ranged auto them from above it will flank every single time no matter where they r facing. It’s really easy to flank someone.

• ‘General hammer feel is good, hammer 5 should be faster, right now the wind up is super long and you can even fail to hit normal mobs with it if they move a little. the only good thing is that it’s so slow that you don’t even feel the energy costs as it repelenish during the animation.
  My only real concern with hammer is the lack of synergy with any legend other than Ventari.’
  —Skill 5 has to be faster but that is not all, it would still be clumsy in pvp i suggested making skill 3 toggle into a skill that lets you stay at the location you’ve leapt to, or/and make it deal damage once again at returning. And make the skill 4 shield have some use against non-projectile ranged attacks.

• Invocation doesn’t actually feel like ‘almost a must’ I’d prefer the mallyx line with resistance trait, devastation and retribution as as third one. (retribution has stability, energy reload, protection etc.) despite this there are still not enough defensive traits.

• Devastation: ‘Malicious Reprisal, whan one attack is blocked, next 2 are unblockable…too situationnal to be usefull in any way.’ It’s very useful against engis and shield warriors not so much against guardians because they pop your trait with aegis and it goes to waste, rangers revenants also have blocks so it has its use.

• ‘Shiro:(…)healing skill is completely useless’ — No. It is true that it needs 6-7 seconds at least for healing the full amount but you don’t lose stacks if your attacks get evaded and adds insane dmg to your skills.

You have lots of good ideas, I agree very much with:

• ‘Eye for an Eye is a CC’ed traits, not really usefull imo.’ — Taunt when getting CC’d is pretty much helping a thief in a way that he doesnt have to spam 1 after he stunned you. This trait makes no sense to me. It should either have a way shorter cd because it doesn’t help too much(I’m aware that they cant use a nonautoattack skill UNLESS they are instant) but it would make the most sense if it somehow taunted people who hit stunned other allies or something.

• Equilibrium that deals some dmg if you swap above 50% energy — goes against revenant playstyle completely you should drain your energ before swapping. should be completely replaced, don’t like energy as a deciding factor at all.

• and like all of the other suggestions you came up with are fair.

Things to add:

• Perma resistance and perma decap aoe mallyx skill needs some toning.
  — Like make stability work against the teleports.
  — Tone down resistance duration slightly(?)

• Remove weapon skill energy, it enforces really cheesy spam of a certain utility and the spamming auto attacks. In return gently decrease energy regeneration or cd increase(there are pretty high CDs already though)
  EDIT: now after thinking about it there is no need to remove energy from weapons just make them much more impactful and put a CDs on certain utilites that you would spamm all the time in some situations(unyielding anguish, resistance skill, shiro stunbreak and perma stability skill)

Yeah i guess i underestimated Assassin’s annihilation, i also forgot it goes threw toughness. Some people also said it added a lot of survivability to them so i guess i didn’t use it enough. You are right on this one ^^

Hammer 3 and 5 seems to be the real problem of this weapon. I like you idea of teleporting to destination, that’s nice.

I felt a big difference of killing power when i didn’t take Fury traits from invocation, guess it’s because of my playstyle. Plus Retribution’s access to protection is from dodging (2s duration) not even worth it, Retal is on hit, and seeing our survivability, we can’t afford to get hit too much.

Yeah, i used a too hard word for Shiro’s heal, it has its use, only the number are wrong, the base heal is too small and it doesn’t trigger on sword 3, wich would be your only way to burst heal as Shiro.

Resistance can be stripped, and i can assure you that it’s not funny when it happens xD
Someone in Pvp waited for my stacks of torments to be high enough and BOOM stripped, and it hurts a lot ^^
I agree with the displacmeent AoE, but it’s a bug imo, it shouldn’t ignore stability and the zone is maybe a bit too big.

That’s some nice things you add here, thanks a lot ^^

— Retribution has 2s stability on dodge(not protection), passive endurance gain, dmg reduction traits, protection on stunned, and the hammer proc deals decent unblockable dmg/blindcleanse, that’s why i prefer it, but in terms of flat dmg invocation is better for PvE for sure. Although, it felt like even on retribution it is too glassy(on marauder amulet)

— Invocation grants a lot of 30% crit chance fury, + 7%dmg flat, a stunbreak on legend swap + a useless master trait
Another thing that’s useless is arguing about it since hopefully they gonna improve weak traits soon.

—Shiro’s heal does trigger on sword 3, only it has an internal cd of 1sec . it only triggers about 3 times during the 7 hits

— Yeah I know resistance can be stripped but not every class can do that. Also you can dodge a lot of boon removes like necro signets which are pretty well telepgraphed and slow, mesmer shatters you have to be careful of too ofc and even if they manage to hit you with one it isn’t guaranteed they strip the right boon. You just have to reapply resistance not long before it ends(rather than stacking up a long duration) so that way you have enough energy to reapply it quickly even if they strip it.

Kicker.8203:

—
—Shiro’s heal does trigger on sword 3, only it has an internal cd of 1sec . it only triggers about 3 times during the 7 hits
.

Wrong, i did the test to verify it when i read it. I was at half hp, used it and sword 3 on a single mob, even with the internal CD, no jade shards had been used.
EDIT : i look at some videos i took during the beta test, and saw that it worked even if, indeed, it used only 3 shards because of the internal cooldown, i wonder what went wrong when i did the test though…maybe a bug that’s worth some testing

Kicker.8203:

— Yeah I know resistance can be stripped but not every class can do that. Also you can dodge a lot of boon removes like necro signets which are pretty well telepgraphed and slow, mesmer shatters you have to be careful of too ofc and even if they manage to hit you with one it isn’t guaranteed they strip the right boon. You just have to reapply resistance not long before it ends(rather than stacking up a long duration) so that way you have enough energy to reapply it quickly even if they strip it.

Well to be honest without resistance, i’m afraid Mallyx can’t survive his own condis, gonna be hard to balance. The problem is Mallyx is the exact counter of any condition user by his design, taking advantage of ennemis condi.

Mournilg.4870:

Well to be honest without resistance, i’m afraid Mallyx can’t survive his own condis, gonna be hard to balance. The problem is Mallyx is the exact counter of any condition user by his design, taking advantage of ennemis condi.

Yea revenant does need resistance but not this much… its also strong because it can send them out in an aoe at the same time (mostly worth it if you r specced for condi).
EDIT: reasoning is no spec should be completely ignore a mechanic. there has to be a downtime, so adding CDs would help that.

Yeah maybe 2 seconds is a bit too much on every skill use if you already have the resistance from Pain Absorption.
But remember you don’t “send” the conditions, you copy it, you still have it on you.
Might be indeed hard to balance, and worth an iteration testing with a reduced duration on Demonic Defiance.