Guild Wars 2

It’s not secret that Revenant Sword main-hand is boring and ineffective in PvE, while being clunky and sometimes overpowered (or underpowered) in PvP depending on the scenario.

Revenant Sword Auto needs a change. It needs to be reworked to become a more interesting weapon to use in PvE, while keeping the same overall DPS output and it needs to be reworked to become smoother to play with and against in PvP.

I have a few suggestions for how this might be done, but I’m not under the impression that they are the “best” ways to improve the weapon, just one way.

Sword Auto-Attack
Animations and bugs aside, the Revenant Sword Auto-Attack is actually fine. It’s just a bit of flat power damage, some vulnerability and a neat mist-bomb at the end. The problem is that this is where all of the Revenant’s damage comes from. After testing, testing, testing and yet more testing, the highest DPS rotation is still to just auto-attack (precision strike MAY pull higher DPS with Alacrity under the right circumstances, but it’s a very minor difference that can be made up by buffing Protection for the 2% Elder’s Force trait while in Glint).

In PvP it’s pretty effective to just auto-attack someone to death, since they attacks hit for so much base damage.

This is actually the core problem of the weapon. The Auto-Attack just deals too much damage. What I propose is to reduce the overall damage by about 30 – 40% and move that DAMAGE PER SECOND (not actual skill damage) to the other attacks. This will result in Sword 2 and 3 being quite a bit stronger, because to flatten out overall DPS, they need to be (plus the cost of energy).

Precision Strike
Precision Strike never really made sense to me. It’s a mid-range attack on a melee weapon. It’s gone from being a utility attack to a full spike attack that’s still quite buggy and very clunky to use.

This skill should be a mid-tier DPS skill and keep the chill theme. What I propose is this

Precision Strike – 5 Energy / 5s Cool-down / 1 Second Cast Time
Unleash a wave of chilling energy from the Mists towards your foes.
Chill: 2 Seconds
Damage: Equivalent to 3 Precision Strike Projectiles (1.0 co-efficient, unbugged)
Skill Telegraph: Same current animation, similar effect to Shackling Wave
Range: 180 Units

This will change the skill from a clunky projectile based weapon that doesn’t really make sense, to a powerful ability, with a cost. The player MUST be in melee range, but it now cleaves, with a telegraph. This is, in nature, similar to Gravedigger on the Reaper.

Unrelenting Assault
Along with addressing Precision Strike and making it a more manageable skill, I propose that Unrelenting Assault also have a small AoE component added to it.

Currently, Unrelenting Assault is basically trash in a group scenario. It hits like a wet noodle, but that needs to change. What I propose is keeping the same (or very similar) functionality, with one additional effect.

Add a Rift onto each strike, similar to Rift Slash on the sword auto.

Rift Effects:
Max 2 Per Enemy
0.5 co-efficient
0.25 – 0.5s timer on “explosion”

What this does is gives the weapon more AoE impact, while helping to seperate enemies from the group, as they will want to spread apart if hit by an Unrelenting Assault. This also means that if they dodge mid-attack (which often happens), it negates this effect. It means this skill will punish bad players further and reward good players, while increasing it’s effectiveness in PvE (bringing it from a ~3.9 co-eff to a 4.9 co-eff on bosses).
  
 
Summary
The general concept behind these changes is to require the Revenant to put a little more effort into getting their DPS and to make the weapon more fun to use in PvP, while not making it completely over-powered. This will also result in forcing Revenants to manage energy a little better, but not make them feel as though that energy is wasted when too many enemies are around and they get RNG’d.

The Sword auto was nerfed before. Does it really need yet another damage nerf?
Its our strongest DPS because Precision Strike/UA’s not reliable in group situations as they are (and the bugs associated with those skills).

I dont think AA, or Sword itself, is overpowered in its current form.
The only changes I’d make is to make Precision Strike focus on one target, and possibly make the projectiles pierce as they travel to still have some use in small scale fights where enemies cluster together (alternative: projectiles ricochet outwards once on hitting designated target), and for UA, make the bouncing only focus its damage on one target while cleaving those close to it (like, 180~200 radius).

OH Sword just needs its OH 5 skill to be a mid-ranged pull or something,. Maybe a tethering strike (first skill) that can “blink” a target towards you (second skill) if its first hit connects.

Sword is fine, they just need more weapon choices → GS

I think it’s a massive secret … Sword is ineffective in PVE? Hardly. It’s boring? I guess if you’re just doing AA, sure.

Obtena.7952:

I think it’s a massive secret … Sword is ineffective in PVE? Hardly. It’s boring? I guess if you’re just doing AA, sure.

Only problem I have is that it seems #3 uses the shadowstep style targeting. Oh what’s that, your target is just barely on a stairway? Sorry, won’t work.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Obtena.7952:

I think it’s a massive secret … Sword is ineffective in PVE? Hardly. It’s boring? I guess if you’re just doing AA, sure.

Only problem I have is that it seems #3 uses the shadowstep style targeting. Oh what’s that, your target is just barely on a stairway? Sorry, won’t work.

/shrug … that’s a player awareness thing. We know that’s how it works, so good players will know when they should and shouldn’t use #3. I know, it sucks to have skills that restrict play in subtle ways. Those kinds of skills are all over the place though, so I don’t actually see a problem with it.

Now, if it were a BUG, then sure, please fix it. Frankly, I can’t believe of all the weapons, someone complaining about sword? I mean …. I guess that Mace is working out for them or something?!?

Please leave sword alone, its fine.

Can we have a look at mace?

Xernth.8561:

Please leave sword alone, its fine.

Can we have a look at mace?

Beyond Quickness not affecting AA3 and the terrain issues with skill 2 and 3, what’s wrong with it?
It already kittens out torment like no one’s business the fire field has a good cooldown (albeit its got an issue with properly aiming towards a target, much like Staff 5), and its got a good blast finisher. It even has good synergy with Axe OH…

It could scale a little better with power and still be perfectly fair.

Hey. I’ll trade you Guardian’s shield skills for Revenant’s…

Out of all of Rev weapons and and traits probably sword mh is probably the least requiring rework. Is it bugged? Yes. Is it weak in PvP or PvE? No. I would argue is better than 90% of current weapons on all classes.

Devs time would be much better spent fixing salvation, ventari, jalis, myllax, mace, shield, hammer and staff needs some work as well.

Sword doesn’t need changes. It needs the nerfs reverted.

What needs reworks is useless weapons like staff (which only see use for 5 and 3, and then you want to switch asap) and mainhand mace.

Staff is pathetic, its autoattack neither does damage or healing (150 heal orbs at the end of the chain, just terrible), and all its skills cost a crap ton of energy.

Sword was never designed for group scenarios, it was designed for 1 on 1 fights. Precision Strike is good as it is because it is designed to keep target leashed to you …. in a group situation I would use Precision Strike to keep someone from geting to a squishy party member (for example Rangers, Dragonhunters and Staff ele) and that 450 range is nice to have in such scenarios.

The same goes for Unrelenting Assault,it’s a defensive skill designed for 1 on 1 fights…it gives evasion,might and a bit of dps. Now don’t get me wrong I would rather they put Grasping Shadow in place of Unrelenting Assault – there are 3 reasons for this:

1) Executing Unrelenting Assault with a shield on my off hand turns my stomach upside down. Ninja’s do not use shields in combat because it offsets their body while doing aerial accrobatics…it’s very impractical.

2)Grasping Shadow on MH improves Revenant Mobility because we can use it in combination with Frigid Blitz without having to swap weapons. And also reinforces my argument about Precision Strike. With both Precision Strike and Grasping Shadow on sword MH it will be a nightmare for mobs and players to charge at your ranged allies.

3) It gives Condi Revenants access to might generation outside of Legendary Dragon Stance and provides a good source of healing for Condi Revs who run Shiro instead of Glint.

Except very rare exceptions, all weapon in the game have their DPS ruled by their auto attack. The other skills are either burst skills or utilities skills.

Maybe the real issue of the revenant sword is not it’s dps but the usefullness of it’s utilities skills. If you look at it with différents eyes :
Unrelenting assault : An evade skill that build might as well
Precision strike : debatable skill with almost no obvious purpose.
Duelist preparation : great block skill
Grasping shadow : obviously a decap skill. Design totally aimed at PvP with absolutelly no use in PvE.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Sword was never designed for group scenarios, it was designed for 1 on 1 fights. Precision Strike is good as it is because it is designed to keep target leashed to you …. in a group situation I would use Precision Strike to keep someone from geting to a squishy party member (for example Rangers, Dragonhunters and Staff ele) and that 450 range is nice to have in such scenarios.

The same goes for Unrelenting Assault,it’s a defensive skill designed for 1 on 1 fights…it gives evasion,might and a bit of dps. Now don’t get me wrong I would rather they put Grasping Shadow in place of Unrelenting Assault – there are 3 reasons for this:

1) Executing Unrelenting Assault with a shield on my off hand turns my stomach upside down. Ninja’s do not use shields in combat because it offsets their body while doing aerial accrobatics…it’s very impractical.

2)Grasping Shadow on MH improves Revenant Mobility because we can use it in combination with Frigid Blitz without having to swap weapons. And also reinforces my argument about Precision Strike. With both Precision Strike and Grasping Shadow on sword MH it will be a nightmare for mobs and players to charge at your ranged allies.

3) It gives Condi Revenants access to might generation outside of Legendary Dragon Stance and provides a good source of healing for Condi Revs who run Shiro instead of Glint.

You’re already wearing plate armor lol. You’re neither an assassin or ninja, if you wanna play that archetype, thief and ranger are more in that vein (sniper/rogue).

Zenith.7301:

Sword doesn’t need changes. It needs the nerfs reverted.

What needs reworks is useless weapons like staff (which only see use for 5 and 3, and then you want to switch asap) and mainhand mace.

Staff is pathetic, its autoattack neither does damage or healing (150 heal orbs at the end of the chain, just terrible), and all its skills cost a crap ton of energy.

I didn’t get the opportunity to play sword prior to the nerf but I can say with confidence that where it’s at now feels very reasonable when compared to damage of other classes and their weapons

…. SO, whatever the nerf was probably put sword right on target for damage. If my memory serves right, the nerf was a 40% decrease in damage? I mean, if I had 40% more damage on my sword, it would be stupid.

Zenith.7301:

You’re already wearing plate armor lol. You’re neither an assassin or ninja, if you wanna play that archetype, thief and ranger are more in that vein (sniper/rogue).

I disagree with you based on the animation for Unrelenting Assault and the kit of Legendary Assasin Stance.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Zenith.7301:

You’re already wearing plate armor lol. You’re neither an assassin or ninja, if you wanna play that archetype, thief and ranger are more in that vein (sniper/rogue).

I disagree with you based on the animation for Unrelenting Assault and the kit of Legendary Assasin Stance.

Revenants aren’t ninjas – they’re just evoking the power and toolkit of one.

Euthymias.7984:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Zenith.7301:

You’re already wearing plate armor lol. You’re neither an assassin or ninja, if you wanna play that archetype, thief and ranger are more in that vein (sniper/rogue).

I disagree with you based on the animation for Unrelenting Assault and the kit of Legendary Assasin Stance.

Revenants aren’t ninjas – they’re just evoking the power and toolkit of one.

That still doesn’t change my oppinion. Will never run Sw/Sh because of it and I will continue to support the ideea of swaping the places between grasping shadow and unrelenting assault on the sword’s kit for those reasons.

The only issue I have with sword is precision strike. Making it a wave won’t work cause that would be too strong. I’d like it to be a leap that has a guaranteed crit chance or increased critical damage. Something that makes use of the word “precision.”

Right now it’s kitten. It’s not weak but it’s not fun to use.

imo, if we want to modify

Sw3 UA cost reduce from 15 to 12 , only 3 Energy cost can do a lot
Sw5 GS increase rage from 130 to 180 to easy grasp . or other way if CD / cost reduce to 10 , we will be freeze master.

When the sword aa is the only true attack of the weapon set is a problem not everyone wants lazy boring aa style.

Ryou.2398:

When the sword aa is the only true attack of the weapon set is a problem not everyone wants lazy boring aa style.

That’s why other weapons with more interesting styles exist for all professions. I think it’s also disingenuous to say that sword AA is the ‘only’ true attack of the weapon. #2 and #3 are really quite good even in their own right. If players can find opportunities to use them, that’s not a ‘lazy boring’ weapon problem, that’s a ‘players not good enough’ problem.

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

When the sword aa is the only true attack of the weapon set is a problem not everyone wants lazy boring aa style.

That’s why other weapons with more interesting styles exist for all professions. I think it’s also disingenuous to say that sword AA is the ‘only’ true attack of the weapon. #2 and #3 are really quite good even in their own right. If players can find opportunities to use them, that’s not a ‘lazy boring’ weapon problem, that’s a ‘players not good enough’ problem.

If you go back there are tons of people saying the other moves are very situational and use aa most of the time.

That could be said about most weapon skills. That doesn’t make Rev Sword uniquely boring or lazy.

On the other hand, it’s not a stretch for me to think someone is being obtuse when they tell me a weapon that has a skill that teleports, evades, gives good damage and might is ‘situational’.

… or that an attack with high damage, mid range and inflicting chill is also ‘situational’. Do you think those are honest assessments? I can’t think of a situation where I DON’T want those abilities. In fact, the stuff that Sword 2 and 3 are made of are the opposite of situational … I want to spam them all the time because they are always good. I think mine and your definitions of what defines situational are quiet different.

Again, if a player views such things as situational, they just aren’t aware of how the game mechanics work and how those various abilities on those skills help you out in the game.

Obtena.7952:

That could be said about most weapon skills. That doesn’t make Rev Sword uniquely boring or lazy.

On the other hand, it’s not a stretch for me to think someone is being obtuse when they tell me a weapon that has a skill that teleports, evades, gives good damage and might is ‘situational’.

… or that an attack with high damage, mid range and inflicting chill is also ‘situational’. Do you think those are honest assessments? I can’t think of a situation where I DON’T want those abilities. In fact, the stuff that Sword 2 and 3 are made of are the opposite of situational … I want to spam them all the time because they are always good. I think mine and your definitions of what defines situational are quiet different.

Again, if a player views such things as situational, they just aren’t aware of how the game mechanics work and how those various abilities on those skills help you out in the game.

Please this is not the only class to have this issue, using the saame attack 80 percent of the time is boring, when you know its more effective then whats the point in not using it? Your literally the only person I have seen to defend this and say otherwise.

I’m not defending using the same attack 80% of the time … don’t make up things I never said or try to read into something to make your case look good. if you don’t like the concept that most of your attacks are from AA, start looking for a new MMO … that’s just how the game works.

I am defending the notion that Sword is more than an only AA weapon and all other weapon skills are more than just situational.

See, the problem with the OP’s original complaint with Sword wasn’t sword lacks damage, yet he’s ONLY assessing damage to make his point … so the whole argument that Sword needs a ‘fix’ for not-lacking-damage things because, as he claims, Sword AA by itself is the highest damage rotation … is nonsense to begin with.

I mean, let’s not beat around the bush … it’s not that non-AA skills are bad on sword, it’s that AA packs the most damage. If there is a REALISTIC fix to that, it’s to nerf AA and distribute damage to other skills … because anyone asking for more damage or effects to make non-AA skills more attractive to use as a fix to ‘AA does too much damage’ problem is just dreaming!

I get the OP is doing that but the flip side is that he just made accessing SAME damage cost energy with his proposal, all for the goal of accomplishing what? Is better DPS distribution over all weapon skills REALLY a problem here that is worth paying more energy to achieve? Um, I think lots of Revenants would not agree with that.

Yep. Auto-attacks being so strong is what needs looked at nearly across the board.

Vyrulisse.1246:

Yep. Auto-attacks being so strong is what needs looked at nearly across the board.

If autoattacks are not strong, then cd abilities need to be stronger to compensate for DPS.

Which will not be done because then PvP crybabies would shout to the heavens as their 20-24k small health pools relative to PvE get bursted down by skills doing 14-15k damage.

The bane of this game is that balance is not split, so ability damage is balanced around PvP with health pools that are 23k HP at best, so even abilities that are truly garbage like necro axe 2 seem OP because they did 12k damage even though necro mainhand axe is a terrible weapon and axe 2 is terrible DPS for its channel time.

A lot of the assumptions about how revenant sword works are based on skill functionality right when HoT hit, not how it works today.

Precision Strike is a very, very strong nuke on a short cooldown. It has roughly twice the DPS of your basic auto-attack. Its coefficient is so high, in fact, that effectively weaving Precision Strikes into your attack pattern will increase your DPS by more, proportionally, than a D/D thief working C&D/Backstabs into their rotation. If you don’t think a revenant should use Precision Strike in their rotation, you should also believe that D/D thief has no business using Backstab.

That being said, despite the ‘kitten kitten spam Precision Strike’ you’ll read here and elsewhere, it is not an easy skill to DPS with, and it’s even harder to use when you’re under the effects of quickness. Revenant auto-attack has very short aftercast frames, and firing off a Precision Strike outside of those short windows will interrupt your basic attacks, wasting time and blunting the damage bonus of weaving even a very high damage nuke into your rotation.

Unrelenting Assault is a pretty incredible skill. It’s a very long evade and does excellent damage (much higher DPS than your auto chain, even accounting for the wind-up) on top of following your target and, as a kicker, stacks some self might as well. The reason it doesn’t show up in ‘optimal’ DPS rotations is because it is not affected by quickness, as are most skills with a lot of power in the evade, so under perfect circumstances (where you have quickness, full might, and do not need to evade anything) it is a DPS loss.

The reason you should use it anyway is because it has an evade frame twice as long as a dodge roll, and will deal a whole lot more damage than a dodge + autoattacks (under quickness!) over the course of its execution. Plus, you know all those huge raid attacks with long wind-ups that you need to dodge or double dodge (I’m looking squarely at Sloth’s shake and Matthias’ Hadoken)? When you see the shake winding up, use UA instead to keep high DPS uptime instead of wasting a couple of seconds dodging around doing no damage.

Plus whenever you aren’t in a raid with 100% quickness uptime, the combination of damage, might stacks, and defense is invaluable, and you’ll want to use UA early and often.

Then of course there’s Frigid Blitz, which does more damage than autoattacking with quickness even though it’s not affected by quickness, and is a gap closer, which comes into play all the time as a majority of raid bosses require you to disengage from the boss to perform mechanics every so often. Getting back more quickly, again, is a pretty substantial DPS boost.

This isn’t even considering the utility you skills that you have that have strong coefficients (Elemental Blast, Unyielding Anguish), passively boost damage output (Embrace the Darkness, Vengeful Hammers, Impossible Odds), or provide comparable damage to autoattacks with additional benefits (Burst of Strength, Enchanted Daggers).

In sum you have more offensive tools on a Revenant, and more complex DPS chains than any other melee class in the game. It’s not the class’ fault if you prefer to ignore all that and just auto-attack.

Obtena.7952:

I can’t think of a situation where I DON’T want those abilities. In fact, the stuff that Sword 2 and 3 are made of are the opposite of situational … I want to spam them all the time because they are always good.

Sword 2 and 3 are good vs multiple targets? So you run into a group of 5 mobs and instead of aa them to death in 2sec, you prefer to cast UA and tickle them? Sounds good.

Sword is the only weapon ingame that loses damage vs your target in 1vX situation. No other weapon share similiar mechanic. Backstab wont deal 75% less damage to someone bc theres 2 diff targets around. Vault wont have it damage halved by 75% cause 5 people stand stacked on point. HB wont lose 75% damage to a boss bc next to him there are 2 adds. Lava font wont deal reduced damage bc 5 mobs are standing on it. You get the point?

If they want sword to single out enemies as they say then yes its time to rework it into pure 1v1 weapon or give us perks to punish stacking (like everyone taking damage from UA around my target) and not being punished bc enemy stacked (which we cant control whatsoever, displacement was removed)

Burtnik.5218:

Obtena.7952:

I can’t think of a situation where I DON’T want those abilities. In fact, the stuff that Sword 2 and 3 are made of are the opposite of situational … I want to spam them all the time because they are always good.

Sword 2 and 3 are good vs multiple targets? So you run into a group of 5 mobs and instead of aa them to death in 2sec, you prefer to cast UA and tickle them? Sounds good.

Sword is the only weapon ingame that loses damage vs your target in 1vX situation. No other weapon share similiar mechanic. Backstab wont deal 75% less damage to someone bc theres 2 diff targets around. Vault wont have it damage halved by 75% cause 5 people stand stacked on point. HB wont lose 75% damage to a boss bc next to him there are 2 adds. Lava font wont deal reduced damage bc 5 mobs are standing on it. You get the point?

If they want sword to single out enemies as they say then yes its time to rework it into pure 1v1 weapon or give us perks to punish stacking (like everyone taking damage from UA around my target) and not being punished bc enemy stacked (which we cant control whatsoever, displacement was removed)

Man you’re like an inquisitor with you speeches – and you’ve been at it for so long . I like the sword as is , and would rather not have it reworked. It’s not meant to work like vault or backstab. UA is meant for offence 1v1 and defence in groups . 2 can function as soft cc, besides a strong hit in 1v1. And what are you talking about being unable to single out an enemy ? Yes you can control stacking , probably one of the most capable proffesions at that tbh. Between Chaotic Relase , staff 5 and sword 5 you can push anyone out quite far . And hitting with sword 5 is not nearly as hard as people paint it out to be .

Kastiel.1947:

Burtnik.5218:

Obtena.7952:

I can’t think of a situation where I DON’T want those abilities. In fact, the stuff that Sword 2 and 3 are made of are the opposite of situational … I want to spam them all the time because they are always good.

Sword 2 and 3 are good vs multiple targets? So you run into a group of 5 mobs and instead of aa them to death in 2sec, you prefer to cast UA and tickle them? Sounds good.

Sword is the only weapon ingame that loses damage vs your target in 1vX situation. No other weapon share similiar mechanic. Backstab wont deal 75% less damage to someone bc theres 2 diff targets around. Vault wont have it damage halved by 75% cause 5 people stand stacked on point. HB wont lose 75% damage to a boss bc next to him there are 2 adds. Lava font wont deal reduced damage bc 5 mobs are standing on it. You get the point?

If they want sword to single out enemies as they say then yes its time to rework it into pure 1v1 weapon or give us perks to punish stacking (like everyone taking damage from UA around my target) and not being punished bc enemy stacked (which we cant control whatsoever, displacement was removed)

Man you’re like an inquisitor with you speeches – and you’ve been at it for so long . I like the sword as is , and would rather not have it reworked. It’s not meant to work like vault or backstab. UA is meant for offence 1v1 and defence in groups . 2 can function as soft cc, besides a strong hit in 1v1. And what are you talking about being unable to single out an enemy ? Yes you can control stacking , probably one of the most capable proffesions at that tbh. Between Chaotic Relase , staff 5 and sword 5 you can push anyone out quite far . And hitting with sword 5 is not nearly as hard as people paint it out to be .

Bro….those people who kitten about sword 5…most of them do it in a PvP context. In PvE I have no problem hitting with sword 5…as long as I don’t try and hit a dragon or some other huge boss.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Kastiel.1947:

Burtnik.5218:

Obtena.7952:

I can’t think of a situation where I DON’T want those abilities. In fact, the stuff that Sword 2 and 3 are made of are the opposite of situational … I want to spam them all the time because they are always good.

Sword 2 and 3 are good vs multiple targets? So you run into a group of 5 mobs and instead of aa them to death in 2sec, you prefer to cast UA and tickle them? Sounds good.

Sword is the only weapon ingame that loses damage vs your target in 1vX situation. No other weapon share similiar mechanic. Backstab wont deal 75% less damage to someone bc theres 2 diff targets around. Vault wont have it damage halved by 75% cause 5 people stand stacked on point. HB wont lose 75% damage to a boss bc next to him there are 2 adds. Lava font wont deal reduced damage bc 5 mobs are standing on it. You get the point?

If they want sword to single out enemies as they say then yes its time to rework it into pure 1v1 weapon or give us perks to punish stacking (like everyone taking damage from UA around my target) and not being punished bc enemy stacked (which we cant control whatsoever, displacement was removed)

Man you’re like an inquisitor with you speeches – and you’ve been at it for so long . I like the sword as is , and would rather not have it reworked. It’s not meant to work like vault or backstab. UA is meant for offence 1v1 and defence in groups . 2 can function as soft cc, besides a strong hit in 1v1. And what are you talking about being unable to single out an enemy ? Yes you can control stacking , probably one of the most capable proffesions at that tbh. Between Chaotic Relase , staff 5 and sword 5 you can push anyone out quite far . And hitting with sword 5 is not nearly as hard as people paint it out to be .

Bro….those people who kitten about sword 5…most of them do it in a PvP context. In PvE I have no problem hitting with sword 5…as long as I don’t try and hit a dragon or some other huge boss.

IKR? Just a bit of common sense , and it’s all good . I use all the time for positioning mobs in Fractals. And even in PvP it’s not hard , if you are positioned right . Pulling out a guy from the point , switching legend , hitting sword 2+3 and finishing with a staff 5 is just so satisfying.

Kastiel.1947:

Burtnik.5218:

Obtena.7952:

I can’t think of a situation where I DON’T want those abilities. In fact, the stuff that Sword 2 and 3 are made of are the opposite of situational … I want to spam them all the time because they are always good.

Sword 2 and 3 are good vs multiple targets? So you run into a group of 5 mobs and instead of aa them to death in 2sec, you prefer to cast UA and tickle them? Sounds good.

Sword is the only weapon ingame that loses damage vs your target in 1vX situation. No other weapon share similiar mechanic. Backstab wont deal 75% less damage to someone bc theres 2 diff targets around. Vault wont have it damage halved by 75% cause 5 people stand stacked on point. HB wont lose 75% damage to a boss bc next to him there are 2 adds. Lava font wont deal reduced damage bc 5 mobs are standing on it. You get the point?

If they want sword to single out enemies as they say then yes its time to rework it into pure 1v1 weapon or give us perks to punish stacking (like everyone taking damage from UA around my target) and not being punished bc enemy stacked (which we cant control whatsoever, displacement was removed)

Man you’re like an inquisitor with you speeches – and you’ve been at it for so long . I like the sword as is , and would rather not have it reworked. It’s not meant to work like vault or backstab. UA is meant for offence 1v1 and defence in groups . 2 can function as soft cc, besides a strong hit in 1v1. And what are you talking about being unable to single out an enemy ? Yes you can control stacking , probably one of the most capable proffesions at that tbh. Between Chaotic Relase , staff 5 and sword 5 you can push anyone out quite far . And hitting with sword 5 is not nearly as hard as people paint it out to be .

Please show me statement where UA is supposed to work like defense skill. Tons of skills can work as defense while also not losing damage. Closer thing to UA is Rocket Charge – always deals the same damage to X target, doesnt break on stealth, doesnt proc confusion multiple times.

And control stacking.. like dude please, 1 dodge roll and im back to group after sword 5. Its also not like his teammates/pets are getting immobilized for 30+ seconds and cant move at all during your PS/UA combo, they can close the gap and you cant do a kitten about it.

In pve you wont displace a boss (defiance bar says hi) and the adds will follow you.. again you cant do a kitten about it. Same goes for a group of mobs, press sword 5, cast UA and mobs are next to you already.

In wvw.. Yeah have fun dude separating one guy from a blob <i wanna see how you work around these downed bodies, other players and all to separate one guy and land full UA/PS on him..

No, rev sword is not fine, it needs a rework and idc about some noname giving me a “solution” in a form of using some funny stuff like grasping shadow or sotm cause that stuff is not effective whatsoever at separating. To truly separate someone as they intented sword 5 to be it should not pull but banish X target to another dimension which should also prevent summoning any pet/clones/whatever. Just me and x target i banished. If they do that.. sure np.

It doesn’t say it anywhere , buts just how it is – good offence in 1v1, good defence in group fights . Know that pesky moment when all the opponents spam AoE? Well evade all of it with a single UA. And the thing about rocket charge is that it has vulnerability pockets – as opposed to the solid evade of UA – so the skills are different like oranges and celantines.
The immobilise on sword 4 can help keep someone in place , or you can use CR or SotM right after to push them out , though the latter will lock you out of sword for a while . Plus if we are includinng teammates in this , they can help chain the CC.
In PvE , when fighting a boss sword 5 will do a hefty amount of dmg to the breakbar so there is at least that. In regards to trash – it’s about appropriate timing. Clear the trash with the infamous AA – let’s be honest that won’t take long – after which get right inside the bosses hit box , hit 2 and UA after that and ta-da no dmg split.
In WvW , well 1st of all there is hammer for blobs . Whilst roaming , the PvP approach works fine most of the time., with even more space to play around . But if you really wanna melee in some blobs , wait for your blob and enemy blobs to engage , engage yourself on the boarder of the blob , drag some injured dude out and finish him with PS or switch and SotM, sword 4 after that to ensure safe retreat . Or staff 3. Or the Shiro evade . Re-engage after that. Well that’s been an effective tactic for me anyways .

Burtnik.5218:

Sword 2 and 3 are good vs multiple targets? So you run into a group of 5 mobs and instead of aa them to death in 2sec, you prefer to cast UA and tickle them? Sounds good.

If you’re fighting foes so weak that they die in one auto-attack combo anyway why are you even bothering to use other skills? Why would you bother to use other skills on any class?

If you’re fighting, say, a group of veterans that will last more than a couple seconds, the generic, maximally effective combo would be:

Temporal Rift
Burst of Strength
Elemental Blast
Legend Swap → Unyielding Anguish. Either throw this immediately for more up front burst, or wait a couple seconds for energy to pass 50, and swap to trigger Equilibrium.
AA to cleave down
Frigid Blitz -> Precision Strike to finish

@Burtnik.5218 you can do staff 5 into sword 5 to land a clean hit – no need to waste sword 4,but you got to be very fast and precise. Also compared to other skills UA doesn’t give you might when cast compared to other abilities….so yeah you lose burst damage but you get stacks of might to compensate for damage loss after the aoe storm.

Personaly I don’t think sword needs changes to AA or PS and UA’s purpose is pretty clear (single target burst or escaping aoe in group situations) but I would like to see UA and GS swap places within the sword kit simply because I dislike the look of doing UA while equiped with a shield – it does not feel right to me.

Burtnik.5218:

Obtena.7952:

I can’t think of a situation where I DON’T want those abilities. In fact, the stuff that Sword 2 and 3 are made of are the opposite of situational … I want to spam them all the time because they are always good.

Sword 2 and 3 are good vs multiple targets? So you run into a group of 5 mobs and instead of aa them to death in 2sec, you prefer to cast UA and tickle them? Sounds good.

I can’t comprehend how not being a multi target weapon makes sword skills 2 and 3 situational … EVER. If I encounter 5 mobs on a Rev, why would I use a sword anyways? Why would I not swap to my staff in that situation? Not being THE weapon of choice for every situation that can be conceived does NOT define situational, otherwise EVERY weapon skill is situational and therefore, being situational is the lamest reason ever to justify a fix. The same goes claiming a weapon is deficient because of thoughtless play; obviously various weapons play specific roles and sword isn’t intended to be a primarily multi target weapon; staff does that. This isn’t a unique feature to the Rev class, so again … a poor excuse to fix any particular weapon on any class.

I mean, let’s pretend you’re right … are you suggesting that sword needs multi target capability? Correction … MORE multi target capability? (Let’s not pretend 2,3 and 4 don’t have the ability to hit multiple targets) Even if you are right, how does that have anything to do with the OP’s suggestion to take damage from AA and spread it over skills that cost energy, just to add flavour to the sword? Do you think that moving that damage to less frequently accessible but multi target capable weapon skills addresses the not-multi target nature of the sword? That’s a stretch. How much damage do you think would be reasonable to move from AA to achieve making the sword a good multi-target weapon? i’m going to guess that based on the CD’s of 2 3 and 4 … probably have to transfer 90% or so of damage from AA to those skills to achieve a decent multi target capability on the sword … now is it clear why the ‘multi target’ argument on sword is just silly?

Kastiel.1947:

slip

Dude i aint going to waste my block and 20 energy for junk immobilize. I also have no issues landing sword 5 a in pvp. You might as well tell me to chill the target before grasping shadow as its also effective method. Point is why bother? Grasping shadow is not effective, it doesnt even make sense to be a pull in the first place.. A melee pull.. like wtf dude? As for your solid evade of UA.. see pic.
Dude trust me, you dont have to tell me how to play as i am one of the most exp rev in whole game and i have yet to lose 1v1 vs another rev (that said i am already on 5 month break from game.)

Obtena.7952:

Why would I not swap to my staff in that situation?

Cause Sword aa has higher damage than anything junk staff has to offer. Maybe you have not noticed but at last hit of sword aa chain you create a rift which can hit up to 12 times – its provides quite a large boost to damage in this case. PS and UA doesnt increase damage in multi target situations.. it already drops it hard to the point where its pointless to do anything but auto unlike other classes like mentioned gs war who will build 25 might stack in no time with HB. PS is no longer utility skills and UA was nerfed hard.

And no, i do not agree nor support idea of the OP, another auto nerf would be kittened. What i agree with him however is the need of rework. I want however is the real compensation since nerf to sword aa – being able to hit for the same amount of damage with skill 2 and 3 regardless of how many targets are in radius.

Idc if i have 10 or 50 enemies around me, if i cast PS/UA my target should take 10k into face. Now its up to them if they make it aoe so everything around me will take 10k into face or not. I shouldnt be at disadvantage vs ranger, mesmer or anything really that has access to al. Im not kittened to aim for clones/pets with my burst so why my toon is? i stopped wearing blindfold long ago.

Only rev has this kind of kittened mechanic. No class suffer damage loss due to multiple targets so.. either they have to get rid of it from revenant or apply it to rest. Like lava font should deal 75% less damage to your target if you casted it in group of mobs, HB should deal 75% less damage if you casted it against 3 mobs etc.
Sounds ridiculous? Thats how revenant sword works right now.

Burtnik.5218:

Obtena.7952:

Why would I not swap to my staff in that situation?

Cause Sword aa has higher damage than anything junk staff has to offer.

That makes no sense .. I can’t follow this contradicting logic you’re presenting … you’re saying that sword suffers in a 1vs X environment in one post, I question why you would even use a sword in that 1 vs X situation and now you’re contradicting yourself by saying you would use sword over staff in that situation because sword AA does lots of damage, even though staff hits multiple targets and sword doesn’t? Are you just arguing whatever side of the coin you feel like here as a way to make waves?

I can’t discuss a topic with a person that presents several, contradicting points of view and chooses either on a whim simply to be disagreeable.

The fact is this; there is no good reason whatsoever for sword to get enhanced capability for multiple targets as long as Rev has access to swapping and the staff. Weapon diversity IS the solution to deficiencies on specific weapons. Rev Sword is not excluded from that solution.

If you are actually going to suggest sword is better than staff in 1 vs. X situations, for whatever reason, then it’s completely and utterly ridiculous to suggest sword is deficient compared to staff in those same 1 vs. X situations. #logic

Obtena.7952:

#logic

Do you even understand the difference between aa and PS/UA or are you mentally challenged? Just curious

Burtnik.5218:

Dude i aint going to waste my block and 20 energy for junk immobilize. I also have no issues landing sword 5 a in pvp. You might as well tell me to chill the target before grasping shadow as its also effective method. Point is why bother? Grasping shadow is not effective, it doesnt even make sense to be a pull in the first place.. A melee pull.. like wtf dude? As for your solid evade of UA.. see pic. * – personal note: dps is irelevant if it got you out of aoe bursts and gave you stacks of might- *

Obtena.7952:

Why would I not swap to my staff in that situation?

Cause Sword aa has higher damage than anything junk staff has to offer. Maybe you have not noticed but at last hit of sword aa chain you create a rift which can hit up to 12 times – its provides quite a large boost to damage in this case.

Based on your logic…because the third link on sword AA does damage to multiple targets the first and second link should do the same things,right? I took the time to break down staff AA and sword AA – the setup is berserk amulet with no runes I discovered the following:

*staff AA link 1 does 560 damage vs 3 targets while sword AA link 1 does 586 damage + 1 stack of vulnerability vs 1 target

*staff AA link 2 does 645 damage vs 3 target while sword AA link 2 does 625 damage + 2 stacks of vulnerability vs 1 target

*staff AA link 3 does 860(x2) damage vs sword AA link 3 does 703 damage + 234 damage – both AA links hit only 3 targets according to in game description (will trust you and say rift explosion can hit more)

Bottom line: if the values on the tooltips of the skills are correct,then rift made by rift strike can target more than 3 targets,then the rift does about 234 damage per target

Obtena.7952:

Burtnik.5218:

Obtena.7952:

Why would I not swap to my staff in that situation?

Cause Sword aa has higher damage than anything junk staff has to offer.

That makes no sense .. I can’t follow this contradicting logic you’re presenting … you’re saying that sword suffers in a 1vs X environment in one post, I question why you would even use a sword in that 1 vs X situation and now you’re contradicting yourself by saying you would use sword over staff in that situation because sword AA does lots of damage, even though staff hits multiple targets and sword doesn’t?

…

If you are actually going to suggest sword is better than staff in 1 vs. X situations, for whatever reason, then it’s completely and utterly ridiculous to suggest sword is deficient compared to staff in those same 1 vs. X situations. #logic

Based on the above quote and my findings, I would have to say that you want sword aa to do staff aa’s job in terms of damage dealing in 1 v X situations. In terms of AA staff is the better weapon for 1 v X

Burtnik.5218:

Obtena.7952:

#logic

Do you even understand the difference between aa and PS/UA or are you mentally challenged? Just curious

I can tell you that I understand a weapon made to hit multiple targets like the staff is better suited in 1 vs X situations than one that is not …

Jack Skywalker.5674:

*staff AA link 1 does 560 damage vs 3 targets while sword AA link 1 does 586 damage + 1 stack of vulnerability vs 1 target

*staff AA link 2 does 645 damage vs 3 target while sword AA link 2 does 625 damage + 2 stacks of vulnerability vs 1 target

*staff AA link 3 does 860(x2) damage vs sword AA link 3 does 703 damage + 234 damage – both AA links hit only 3 targets according to in game description (will trust you and say rift explosion can hit more)

Huh? Are you aware that sword aa provides more damage than staff aa? Are you aware of things like cast and aftercast? And lastly.. are you aware that sword aa can hit 3 targets while each rift can hit up 5 invidual enemies for a total of 15 (3×5)? Do you even rev? Cause im not sure based on what you said here.. then again im tired af.

Obtena.7952:

Burtnik.5218:

Obtena.7952:

#logic

Do you even understand the difference between aa and PS/UA or are you mentally challenged? Just curious

I can tell you that I understand a weapon made to hit multiple targets like the staff is better suited in 1 vs X situations than one that is not …

Too bad cause sword behaves like it want to be multiple target weapon. I mean just look at this sword.. its full of aoe

Burtnik.5218:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

*staff AA link 1 does 560 damage vs 3 targets while sword AA link 1 does 586 damage + 1 stack of vulnerability vs 1 target

*staff AA link 2 does 645 damage vs 3 target while sword AA link 2 does 625 damage + 2 stacks of vulnerability vs 1 target

*staff AA link 3 does 860(x2) damage vs sword AA link 3 does 703 damage + 234 damage – both AA links hit only 3 targets according to in game description (will trust you and say rift explosion can hit more)

Huh? Are you aware that sword aa provides more damage than staff aa? Are you aware of things like cast and aftercast? And lastly.. are you aware that sword aa can hit 3 targets while each rift can hit up 5 invidual enemies for a total of 15 (3×5)? Do you even rev? Cause im not sure based on what you said here.. then again im tired af.

Too bad cause sword behaves like it want to be multiple target weapon. I mean just look at this sword.. its full of aoe

I am saying that the dps from the sword rift is smaller than what the staff aa can dish out in 1 vs x situations and that your math does not hold up from 1 v 4 and upwards because you have no way of determining where the strike damage goes (yeah rift damage will hit more than 4,but the damage is super small).

…also each rift? Either I need glasses or you play GW2 after drinking because I barely see the one rift mentioned in the description of sword aa link 3 that is summoned let alone a second one. Per total all 3 links of staff AA hit for about 2925 damage constantly vs 3 targets while sword AA does 1211 damage to 1 target and provided both sword attack and rift explosion conect will hit for just 937 – provided my eyesight is allright and it’s only 1 rift summoned. From 1 v 4 outwards the initial damage from sword AA 3 gets bad because of damage fallout (it hits a maximum of 3).

Burtnik.5218:

Too bad cause sword behaves like it want to be multiple target weapon. I mean just look at this sword.. its full of aoe

So when you were challenging my statement that sword wasn’t situational by pointing out that it’s the only weapon that punishes you in 1 vs X situations … you were lying to me?

I mean, I can’t follow you. You tell me sword punishes you in 1 vs X situations, but then turn around and point out sword is full of AoE attacks, which are clearly intended for 1 vs X situations and that you prefer it over staff because of it’s AA damage, even though staff is intended for 1 vs X situations. You don’t see how contradictory those two statements are?

At this point, the only conclusion I can come to is that you’re willing to make any negative statements, even if they contradict themselves, just out of desperation that Anet sees them and ‘fixes’ everything. Not a sound plan.

Obtena.7952:

Burtnik.5218:

Too bad cause sword behaves like it want to be multiple target weapon. I mean just look at this sword.. its full of aoe

So when you were challenging my statement that sword wasn’t situational by pointing out that it’s the only weapon that punishes you in 1 vs X situations … you were lying to me?

I mean, I can’t follow you. You tell me sword punishes you in 1 vs X situations, but then turn around and point out sword is full of AoE attacks, which are clearly intended for 1 vs X situations and that you prefer it over staff because of it’s AA damage, even though staff is intended for 1 vs X situations. You don’t see how contradictory those two statements are?

At this point, the only conclusion I can come to is that you’re willing to make any negative statements, even if they contradict themselves, just out of desperation that Anet sees them and ‘fixes’ everything. Not a sound plan.

Sword aa is getting stronger with more enemies in front of you. PS/UA is trying to act like aoe but works in opposite direction by punishing you in 1vX. Yeah how that makes any sense? Am i contradictory myself? No, sword desing does that already on it own.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Burtnik.5218:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

*staff AA link 1 does 560 damage vs 3 targets while sword AA link 1 does 586 damage + 1 stack of vulnerability vs 1 target

*staff AA link 2 does 645 damage vs 3 target while sword AA link 2 does 625 damage + 2 stacks of vulnerability vs 1 target

*staff AA link 3 does 860(x2) damage vs sword AA link 3 does 703 damage + 234 damage – both AA links hit only 3 targets according to in game description (will trust you and say rift explosion can hit more)

Huh? Are you aware that sword aa provides more damage than staff aa? Are you aware of things like cast and aftercast? And lastly.. are you aware that sword aa can hit 3 targets while each rift can hit up 5 invidual enemies for a total of 15 (3×5)? Do you even rev? Cause im not sure based on what you said here.. then again im tired af.

Too bad cause sword behaves like it want to be multiple target weapon. I mean just look at this sword.. its full of aoe

I am saying that the dps from the sword rift is smaller than what the staff aa can dish out in 1 vs x situations and that your math does not hold up from 1 v 4 and upwards because you have no way of determining where the strike damage goes (yeah rift damage will hit more than 4,but the damage is super small).

…also each rift? Either I need glasses or you play GW2 after drinking because I barely see the one rift mentioned in the description of sword aa link 3 that is summoned let alone a second one. Per total all 3 links of staff AA hit for about 2925 damage constantly vs 3 targets while sword AA does 1211 damage to 1 target and provided both sword attack and rift explosion conect will hit for just 937 – provided my eyesight is allright and it’s only 1 rift summoned. From 1 v 4 outwards the initial damage from sword AA 3 gets bad because of damage fallout (it hits a maximum of 3).

Lalala.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparation_Thrust

The whole sequence takes 2.05 seconds. (staff takes 2.2)
This skill hits up to 3 targets as of BWE1, though it is difficult to hit all 3 if the foes are not tightly stacked.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rift_Slash
The rift is created on each of up to 3 targets hit by the slash, and each explosion hits 3 targets. A single Rift Slash can hit up to 12 times.

The only thing i were wrong about is total numbers of targets from 15 to 12 but well i can forget a few things after not playing.. for a while.

Now i know for sure that you have not played rev in your life if you were not aware of such things.

Rev sword no, I don’t play too often, so I never had the opportunity to notice stuff like that – I main support rev Mace+Shield+Staff (I boon bot resistance and whatever else Glint can throw). Did test in actual game instead of using the numbers for skills listed on http://en.gw2skills.net/ and yeah, it has potential….the first 2 skills in the sword AA sequence outdamaged the first 2 skills in the staff sequence vs 3 golems…same with the last hit on both sequences. You are right the sword design is contradicting itself….PS and UA are for 1v1 scenarios and AA is very good in up to 1v3…..I am not convinced however that sword aa is any good past 1 v 4 because from what I cat tell you can only attach rifts to 3 targets.