Guild Wars 2

Hey,

First, I will say that so far I haven’t been able to dedicate time to try any of the other elite specs properly (maybe Reaper a little) besides Herald and Revenant in general. Magnificient work!

Now, the stuff. I think that Revenant is in a very good position with many builds right now, some stuff obviously needs couple changes like Ventari, Sword OH #5 and couple things in traitlines, but I believe Dev team will deal with those.

The only thing I believe that might be a little bit over the top is Unrelenting Assault. Now don’t understand me wrong, this skill is awesome and absolutely needed that evade frame. But I can see many complaints at Rev in the future specifically because of that skill and would like to prevent bad nerfs.

If you think it’s a problem – then I have simple solution.

Unrelenting Assault strikes 7 times, with last blow landing at primary target. Currently, the base damage of each attack is equal, so to it doesn’t matter which part you block or evade.

My suggestion would be: Lower the damage of first 6 strikes by ~10-15%, BUT move the lost damage to last, 7th hit and maybe increase it’s damage further to compensate

This way, we achieve couple things:

1. There is good counterplay for this skill. You will still take a lot of damage from UA Revenant, but if you time your dodge to mitigate 7th attack, you will negate the major spike. So timing your dodge is more rewarding, instead of randomly trying to block everything, you focus at the last hit.

2. It doesn’t hurt overall Revenant’s damage. As I said, last hit even with moved damage could still get some bonus damage boost so if someone is stupid enough to take whole chain, he gets hurt more. And more damage for PvE.

3. The skill would do more damage to your primary target when against many foes. Last hit does most damage, so the “negative” effect of multiple foes is negated a bit.

I know that this skill isn’t supposed to be balanced in 1v1 perspective as it’s only okay in teamfights. But we know that players complain mostly from 1v1 perspective and there will be QQ and crying.

I’ve been discussing this change with Phanta on his stream and couple other good players and friends of mine playing Rev and we think this change would’ve been legit.

Cheers,
Rym

I’m actually okay with this. If you manage to land the last hit, the Might stacking will make it spike even harder than before but at the same time, the target can evade if it they are good and survive.

I like this. If I could make a suggestion myself it’d be cool if the Revenant did the last hit with a stomp.

So the first 6 hits would hit for 10~15% reduced damage and would stack no might. The seventh hit would be the Revenant dropping down from above and slamming the ground, causing a Blast Finisher and dealing AoE damage on a radius with damage compensated by the reduction of the first hits.

The Revenant would also always drop down on the primary target and then generate 2 stacks of might per target hit (Max 5 targets). This would potentially be more powerful than we have now, yes… But if there are no more targets or they all evade then you’d generate much less might. Besides if you drop down a fire field that’s even more might for everyone.

This would add more counterplay to the skill AND would add more potential if used smartly. Also dropping down and slamming the ground for AoE dmg is always kitten. What do you guys think of this idea?

i dont see a problem with this skilltbh, it’s a rapidfire-like skill that you can doubledodge and completely evade if you feel like it.

RJMazz.6798:

I like this. If I could make a suggestion myself it’d be cool if the Revenant did the last hit with a stomp.

So the first 6 hits would hit for 10~15% reduced damage and would stack no might. The seventh hit would be the Revenant dropping down from above and slamming the ground, causing a Blast Finisher and dealing AoE damage on a radius with damage compensated by the reduction of the first hits.

The Revenant would also always drop down on the primary target and then generate 2 stacks of might per target hit (Max 5 targets). This would potentially be more powerful than we have now, yes… But if there are no more targets or they all evade then you’d generate much less might. Besides if you drop down a fire field that’s even more might for everyone.

This would add more counterplay to the skill AND would add more potential if used smartly. Also dropping down and slamming the ground for AoE dmg is always kitten. What do you guys think of this idea?

I think that the skill is good as it is now, just needs some number tuning as proposed.
And it shouldn’t have Blast Finisher. If you want Blast Finishers, get a Mace for triple ones on low CD. Or Staff.

Hmm not sure about that last bit with extra might stacking but YES to the rest.

These are actually really good ideas IMO. Make the last hit spike harder than the others and reduce each individual strike damage BUT, if you manage to land the last hit, you will punish the player for running towards his team and make up for the loss of cleave within a short radius, maybe about… shadow refuge radius?

Idk but I love the idea.

I’m not against this suggestion, but before attempting this, the skill has to be fixed. Atm the opponent just needs to be close to a wall or an obstacle and UA will cancel after the first hit.

Honestly, I think UA is absolutely fine as it is.

The logic here, however, seems very solid. I wouldn’t mind if they used your idea but it’s not exactly at the top of the list of things that need to be changed.

Demented Yak.6105:

Honestly, I think UA is absolutely fine as it is.

The logic here, however, seems very solid. I wouldn’t mind if they used your idea but it’s not exactly at the top of the list of things that need to be changed.

Yeah, I noted that it should be touched only if they think it’s a problem. I’m just trying to prevent bad nerfs

Kidel.2057:

I’m not against this suggestion, but before attempting this, the skill has to be fixed. Atm the opponent just needs to be close to a wall or an obstacle and UA will cancel after the first hit.

Obviously this, same as vengeful hammers bug. Requires a fix.

So far, I’d say our three biggest counters are Necromancer, Condi Mesmer and Walls.

I find the skill to be in a good spot, the main aspect of the skill is the evading utility it brings rather than the punch it packs, which is frankly a big one. Although it is also very telegraphed, in a PvP scenario, if you have a Rev lunging at you, you probably know you’ll be UA’d any time soon and with the Cast time it has, it’s even easier to dodge it, unless you’re on Shiro and pop IO right before to fasten the cast which is what should be done most of the time.

Rym.1469:

Demented Yak.6105:

Honestly, I think UA is absolutely fine as it is.

The logic here, however, seems very solid. I wouldn’t mind if they used your idea but it’s not exactly at the top of the list of things that need to be changed.

Yeah, I noted that it should be touched only if they think it’s a problem. I’m just trying to prevent bad nerfs

Kidel.2057:

I’m not against this suggestion, but before attempting this, the skill has to be fixed. Atm the opponent just needs to be close to a wall or an obstacle and UA will cancel after the first hit.

Obviously this, same as vengeful hammers bug. Requires a fix.

So far, I’d say our three biggest counters are Necromancer, Condi Mesmer and Walls.

Don’t forget stairs, small bridges and statues.

Lahm.7056:

I find the skill to be in a good spot, the main aspect of the skill is the evading utility it brings rather than the punch it packs, which is frankly a big one. Although it is also very telegraphed, in a PvP scenario, if you have a Rev lunging at you, you probably know you’ll be UA’d any time soon and with the Cast time it has, it’s even easier to dodge it, unless you’re on Shiro and pop IO right before to fasten the cast which is what should be done most of the time.

Dodging, blinding or blocking the initial UA cast won’t stop the skill afaik. Only Stealth and bugs do.

Good suggestion for pvp, but how would that affect pve? Hot allready showed that multiple enemies is something to expect, making Ua him less, and now add another nerf to it in above it

I really like the OP suggestion, it will make this skill even more interesting

Tora.7214:

Good suggestion for pvp, but how would that affect pve? Hot allready showed that multiple enemies is something to expect, making Ua him less, and now add another nerf to it in above it

Its not a nerf, in fact as stated it will make more overall dmg cause the might stacked on the final hit

UA is fine. There are ways to counter it (covered in the other UA thread already). It does not need these changes.

i like this idea.

another thought, though it is a little nerf: there would be more counterplay to this if the evade was 1 second at cast instead of 2.

from the other thread, it seems like the primary way of completely stopping this is:

immediate stealth, no target required (this is limited to utility skills on thief, mes, trapper rune ranger)
shock aura (limited to 1 class)
interrupting during backflip (conflicting reports, but would be good)
melee blocks that dont auto-cancel after a hit or 3 (limited to shield war, only works if no phase traversal)
immunity (limited to utilities)
double dodge

there is a longer list of things that punish / partially mitagate, but those are the things that stop it.

Right now, there is no other skill in the game with so little ability to be countered. All other channeled skills are either interruptible / reflectable, or if they contain an evade they also root the attacker in place. Having a strong skill on a 15 sec cd that can only be countered by blowing utilities or shock aura isn’t a good idea.

Dont ignore my coment though, i agree that a tweak to this skill wouldnt be bad

“however” when you make a suggestion you have to have both aspects of the game in mind, pvp AND pve. We dont want another wildstar in our hands

The suggestion above might be decent for pvp, but nerfing the aoe dmg of a skill that allready becomes weaker when used as an aoe will severely hinder its use in Hot content

Tora.7214:

Dont ignore my coment though, i agree that a tweak to this skill wouldnt be bad

“however” when you make a suggestion you have to have both aspects of the game in mind, pvp AND pve. We dont want another wildstar in our hands

The suggestion above might be decent for pvp, but nerfing the aoe dmg of a skill that allready becomes weaker when used as an aoe will severely hinder its use in Hot content

I dont understand why you think this is a nerf when doing PvE, except for the fact that AoE damage will not be perfectly balanced between foes, but I cant see that big problem there

Tora.7214:

Dont ignore my coment though, i agree that a tweak to this skill wouldnt be bad

“however” when you make a suggestion you have to have both aspects of the game in mind, pvp AND pve. We dont want another wildstar in our hands

The suggestion above might be decent for pvp, but nerfing the aoe dmg of a skill that allready becomes weaker when used as an aoe will severely hinder its use in Hot content

That’s a fair concern. However I think that AoE damage could be partially solved by making Sword AA cleave in slightly wider radius (it’s sometimes hard to cleave on foes who aren’t stacked very tightly) or making Precision Strike do more damage if foes are in melee range already.

If they feel a change is necessary, this would certainly be preferable to an overall damage decrease.

I mean if they absolutely have to nerf it, I suppose I’d rather they do it by this way. Putting most of the damage at the last portion of the ability. Still don’t think it’s necessary, but I hope they don’t do something silly because of the pvp crying. I actually LIKE using this for once. Before it was buffed I basically NEVER used it because it was useless.

Rym.1469:

Hey,

First, I will say that so far I haven’t been able to dedicate time to try any of the other elite specs properly (maybe Reaper a little) besides Herald and Revenant in general. Magnificient work!

Now, the stuff. I think that Revenant is in a very good position with many builds right now, some stuff obviously needs couple changes like Ventari, Sword OH #5 and couple things in traitlines, but I believe Dev team will deal with those.

The only thing I believe that might be a little bit over the top is Unrelenting Assault. Now don’t understand me wrong, this skill is awesome and absolutely needed that evade frame. But I can see many complaints at Rev in the future specifically because of that skill and would like to prevent bad nerfs.

If you think it’s a problem – then I have simple solution.

Unrelenting Assault strikes 7 times, with last blow landing at primary target. Currently, the base damage of each attack is equal, so to it doesn’t matter which part you block or evade.

My suggestion would be: Lower the damage of first 6 strikes by ~10-15%, BUT move the lost damage to last, 7th hit and maybe increase it’s damage further to compensate

This way, we achieve couple things:

1. There is good counterplay for this skill. You will still take a lot of damage from UA Revenant, but if you time your dodge to mitigate 7th attack, you will negate the major spike. So timing your dodge is more rewarding, instead of randomly trying to block everything, you focus at the last hit.

2. It doesn’t hurt overall Revenant’s damage. As I said, last hit even with moved damage could still get some bonus damage boost so if someone is stupid enough to take whole chain, he gets hurt more. And more damage for PvE.

3. The skill would do more damage to your primary target when against many foes. Last hit does most damage, so the “negative” effect of multiple foes is negated a bit.

I know that this skill isn’t supposed to be balanced in 1v1 perspective as it’s only okay in teamfights. But we know that players complain mostly from 1v1 perspective and there will be QQ and crying.

I’ve been discussing this change with Phanta on his stream and couple other good players and friends of mine playing Rev and we think this change would’ve been legit.

Cheers,
Rym

Biggest issue I have with this is that it’ll just become another 100 Blades. It has the same mechanic, big hit on the last hit, and people will know that the 7th hit must absolutely be avoided.

It will be rapid strike all over again. The skills fine, it’s new, people just need to learn to counter it.

New things scare people in mmos unless they are the ones using it. If a nerf was needed though your suggestion could actually really help. Wouldn’t mind in pve either as I want to do the most damage to my targeted enemy

I have to disagree with any nerfs. Take away the only true burst the class has then what? The counter to it is backing into terrain or double dodge. Remove the burst and we uave beta weekend 1 situation again, because Sword 2 isnt reliable and has little to no self defense in SPvP on the class as is.

To be honest, Unrelenting Assault on it’s own isn’t overpowered. It has good 1v1 damage but it gets diluted heavily when the enemy is standing close to his allies (or pets/minions/clones/turrets) and that greatly lowers its power. Even in a 1v1, the skill on it’s own isn’t overpowered, just powerful.

What does make it overbearing, however, is when you combine it with Enchanted Daggers. Enchanted Daggers will add 4 hits of ~900 damage which is basically an extra 3600 damage (before crits). It basically adds an extra 33-50% damage to the skill. This makes it significantly easier to get into swift termination and add even more damage.

It’s the interaction with enchanted daggers that makes unrelenting assault overpowered, not unrelenting assault on its own.

I’m not really asking to nerf it, I think it might be a little bit strong in 1v1s, but isn’t anything special anywhere else, can be exploited by enemy and so on. Game isn’t balanced around 1v1s on Niflhel anyway.

I’m just giving suggestion just in case so it doesn’t get a random nerfbat somewhere down the line. It’s really hard to say if something is super strong or not after 2 days playing it.

If anything, I’d suggest to move just a little bit of that damage from each strike, like I said, 10 or 15% which is roughly around what – 200 damage? – to final attack. Waiting just for 7th hit would still make you eat vast majority of damage.

Rym.1469:

I’m not really asking to nerf it, I think it might be a little bit strong in 1v1s, but isn’t anything special anywhere else, can be exploited by enemy and so on. Game isn’t balanced around 1v1s on Niflhel anyway.

I’m just giving suggestion just in case so it doesn’t get a random nerfbat somewhere down the line. It’s really hard to say if something is super strong or not after 2 days playing it.

If anything, I’d suggest to move just a little bit of that damage from each strike, like I said, 10 or 15% which is roughly around what – 200 damage? – to final attack. Waiting just for 7th hit would still make you eat vast majority of damage.

thats still a huge nerf. There was a reason it had to get a damage buff. Saving everything to the last hit basically makes it useless because of all the current ways to counter it such as terrain.

The problems arisen from UA is because most players do not know how to counter it yet, but it’s quite easy, a single blind can screw up, 2 evades ditch out 5 out of the 7 hits, and timing an interrupt (daze,stun, KD or KB) right at the start of the animation (backflip) cancels the skill, heck I even saw a mesmer pahse retreat to safety after the 3rd time I tried to burst him with UA, and it gives smartplay to the skill because if it stays like it is, and people learn to counter it then using it after evades or when the enemy has no way out of your burst would require playerskill, most of the damage I did with sword, even in PvP came from autoattacks.

If anything reduce no. of hits to 5 and adjust the damage accordingly between hits, that way evades would just make it avoidable.

UA is too strong if you compare it to any other multi-hit skill.

1) It has a very low cooldown.
2) It does not require special positioning like 100b, blurred frenzy, pistol whip, etc, all of which can be easily avoided 100% by a SINGLE dodge.
3) It automatically tracks the target and cannot be avoided by hiding behind terrain, or using line of sight, like rapid fire.
4) it cannot be avoided using teleports (just tried it on a thief and it tracks shadow stepping away, lulz)
5)It cannot be interrupted mid-attack using daze/stun due to the evades.
6) it cannot be reflected.

Every other similar skill in the game has at least 2-3 hard counters that negate it 100%. Double dodging is NOT a counter. If your opponent wastes 2 dodges against a 10s cooldown ability, they have completely lost the fight.

Kharr.5746:

UA is too strong if you compare it to any other multi-hit skill.

1) It has a very low cooldown.
2) It does not require special positioning like 100b, blurred frenzy, pistol whip, etc, all of which can be easily avoided 100% by a SINGLE dodge.
3) It automatically tracks the target and cannot be avoided by hiding behind terrain, or using line of sight, like rapid fire.
4) it cannot be avoided using teleports (just tried it on a thief and it tracks shadow stepping away, lulz)
5)It cannot be interrupted mid-attack using daze/stun due to the evades.
6) it cannot be reflected.

Every other similar skill in the game has at least 2-3 hard counters that negate it 100%. Double dodging is NOT a counter. If your opponent wastes 2 dodges against a 10s cooldown ability, they have completely lost the fight.

This. Weapon skills should be counterable without resorting to double dodge or an immunity or otherwise long cd utility skill (eg weapon skills counter weapon skills). For most classes, countering this is going to involve burning an immunity or a utility skill to stealth, and that would make it the only skill in the game that can’t be fully negated by multiple conventional methods.

We did come up with a couple counters:
shock aura (ele only)
stealth (only mes can do this without blowing a utility: thief cant land CnD and comboing would take too long to avoid UA)
blocks that dont end after 1-3 melee hits (only a shield warrior can do this, and this counter is negated fully by phase traversal).
classes with long evade chains (s/p thief, 1h sword mes, 1h sword ranger).

the range on the teleport also seems to be way off with it tracking through blinks, shadowsteps, lightning flash, lightning reflexes, all of which are 900 range moves.

The OP’s suggestion is really good. If there was a decent window to interrupt the channel (maybe 1sec evade instead of 2) that’d be better.

there is a good list of things that mitagate or punish the use of UA, but as for actual counters, there really isnt enough here with the 2sec evade on the skill.

Edit: I have to assume that having trouble with some terrain is a glitch that will be fixed (it SHOULD be fixed, skills should be ant-hill dependant). There are conflicting reports that the skill can be canceled with blind / kb / normal interrupts during the backflip. If it can be, the backflip period is not really long enough for someone to intentionally score the interrupt during this window.

I dont really want to participate in a shouting match to nerf something. I just honestly feel that this skill needs more counterplay, and I hope some of these threads will stay positive and constructive like this one.

Please understand the difference between counter and mitagation. Protection / stand near allies / dodge is mitagation. Counter is stopping the play.

The skill doesn’t need a nerf because if there is more than one person then the dmg dies and you are basically using it defensively. The game is never balanced around 1v1ns so getting hit with UA in a 1v1 is doing what its intended to do. If you move the dmg to the last hit like warrior HB then it wont do anything if there is more than one person. Even a pet or a summon drop this skills dmg very harshly on a single target.

So please reconsider because there are so many ways to counter/avoid the skill atm. A lot of people just don’t know what a lot of rev skills do. I played rev since friday and I have 35 hours on my rev. They have many issues and need buffs in some places. Once people start knowing what revs do you will see how much these weaknesses will show. Sword is the only weapon that doesn’t need buffing/nerfing, it just needs some bug fixes.

Kharr.5746:

UA is too strong if you compare it to any other multi-hit skill.

1) It has a very low cooldown.
2) It does not require special positioning like 100b, blurred frenzy, pistol whip, etc, all of which can be easily avoided 100% by a SINGLE dodge.
3) It automatically tracks the target and cannot be avoided by hiding behind terrain, or using line of sight, like rapid fire.
4) it cannot be avoided using teleports (just tried it on a thief and it tracks shadow stepping away, lulz)
5)It cannot be interrupted mid-attack using daze/stun due to the evades.
6) it cannot be reflected.

Every other similar skill in the game has at least 2-3 hard counters that negate it 100%. Double dodging is NOT a counter. If your opponent wastes 2 dodges against a 10s cooldown ability, they have completely lost the fight.

Rapid Fire is on a 10 second cooldown and does not root the ranger in place, also it can be interrupted by stowing weapons, unlike UA, it requires two dodges or another form of active counterplay to avoid, Backstab is another skill with more burst potential than UA has, and it has little counterplay since it would require you to be able to tell where the thief is, a reaper can literally shred you with Death’s Charge, Infusing Terror, AA and Executioner’s Scythe if you don’t have stun breaks or condicleanse/resistance and there’s little counter play, heck if he pops Chilled to the Bone in said situation you’re dead, a Warrior can ditch you with HB after an f1 and and Immob it just requires you to not have evades, stunbreaks or cleanses at your disposal, all of those have the same counterplay as UA and no one’s saying they’re overpowered.

My suggestion would be: Lower the damage of first 6 strikes by ~10-15%, BUT move the lost damage to last, 7th hit and maybe increase it’s damage further to compensate

I dislike. I enjoy UA as an AoE pack-clearing move, and moving the damage to the last hit means that only the last mob will really see any impact from it. Conversely, if you do want to focus on a single mob in a pack, it makes this much easier, since if you target him directly then he’ll end up taking the brunt of the damage with the first and last hits. UA is meant to “punish” this a bit by spreading the damage thinly.

It’s a preference thing, but I prefer it being spread out.

I think this is a great idea and I see no downsides to it. Improved counterplay against the Revenant and improved usability for the Revenant. Kudos for coming up with this OP.

UA is fine. Dodge, block, give it more targets and s on. It is as easily countered as 100B.

The only people that have problem with this skill are those who have no idea about rev and his skills or just want it nerfed for the sake of it.

@OP terrible suggestion, so basically tank 6 weak strikes or actually more like 4 and always dodge/block second half to totally nullify the skill every time.

A single dodge cuts this skills dmg by ~50%. Second target is also 50% cut so with dodge and 2nd target you get only ~25% dmg.

If they nerf it then it becomes useless because if it’s mediocre vs single target it will be garbage in every other scenario. Hell, vs 2-3 targets Autoattacking is 10x better than UA :P

It’s 10% less damage on first 6 strikes, how is this so much weaker? Check the numbers, 10% of each strike translates to like 100-150 less damage. And this change would make it only better for single target.

Anyway, I don’t do balance, Devs do. What they think is the best.

Every class has multiple ways to deal with UA. If you lower the power and put it on the end then ppl can just walk around and dodge the last hit without a worry.

In a group setting it will be the same deal except now you do even less dmg if you put it on the last hit…

It doesn’t need any changing, its good where its at. Any buff will make it better than it should be and any nerf will make it useless.

Mosharn.8357:

Every class has multiple ways to deal with UA. If you lower the power and put it on the end then ppl can just walk around and dodge the last hit without a worry.

That simply is not true. Hard counters atm are:

1) Shock aura. Ele dagger only.
2) Mes torch 4.
3) War shield, only works if no phase traversal from rev.
4) Long evades: Mes blurred frenzy, pistol whip, ranger 1h sword

That is the smallest set of counters for any ability out there. If the OP’s suggestion of ramping damage was used, mitagation via late dodge would be more reasonable, or if the evade didnt last the whole duration, interrupts would function as counters.

Bumping it so some complainers of UA can see it and discuss if this can help to counter-play the skill

What if the skill was “buffed” by simply speeding it up by 100%, so that all hits are delivered in half the current time? In other words, it keeps all of its current damage and might stacking, but just does them quicker.

This change would..
1) Make the skill do better burst damage and increase overall dps (good)
2) Allow you to stack might faster (good)
3) Reduce the evade frames/damage immunity when using the skill since the skill will complete twice as fast (good — it is an offensive skill, not a defensive skill so it shouldn’t allow high dps while evading thousands of damage).
4) Allow people to evade it using 1 dodge, block, or invulnerability skill instead of 2 (good — it gives it real counter play).

This sort of change would buff the damage potential while introducing proper counter play through defensive skills, making it a proper high-risk, high-reward skill. It will require you to properly keep track of your opponents defenses, or immob, or CC your target to make sure that you land the skill without having them dodge/block it.

I will bump it on purpose, because there’s a similar discussion on how UA is “OP”.

Raven.9603:

Mosharn.8357:

Every class has multiple ways to deal with UA. If you lower the power and put it on the end then ppl can just walk around and dodge the last hit without a worry.

That simply is not true. Hard counters atm are:

1) Shock aura. Ele dagger only.
2) Mes torch 4.
3) War shield, only works if no phase traversal from rev.
4) Long evades: Mes blurred frenzy, pistol whip, ranger 1h sword

That is the smallest set of counters for any ability out there. If the OP’s suggestion of ramping damage was used, mitagation via late dodge would be more reasonable, or if the evade didnt last the whole duration, interrupts would function as counters.

engi invis/block/elixir
warrior shield stance/endure pain/whirlwind into dodge full negate
Guardian Renewed focus, shelter, aegis into evade/focus 5
thief stealth/evade skills
necro deathshroud/plauge form
mesmer invis/blurred frenzy/shatter 4
ranger many evades/ signet of stone/ protect me
ele mist form, focus invulns evade on dagger 3 in fire and air 5 into a dodge/arcane shield.

Now before you tell me why you would use any of these for a 10s CD skill…
Let me ask you will you just stand there and take any of the following low cd multi hit dmg skills for free?
Ranger rapid fire
warrior HB
mesmer blurred frenzy
thief pistol whip
guardian whirling wrath

You can easily interrupt the ability within its 3/4 cat with its super obvious eviscerate animation, at the start of the ability. You can also troll the Revenant by taking it to your team while he is in UA to kitten him with no remorse.

Also lets not forget the after cast time where you can get damaged very badly unless you spend energy to cast a skill to save you or use a dodge.

Mosharn.8357:

Raven.9603:

Mosharn.8357:

Every class has multiple ways to deal with UA. If you lower the power and put it on the end then ppl can just walk around and dodge the last hit without a worry.

That simply is not true. Hard counters atm are:

1) Shock aura. Ele dagger only.
2) Mes torch 4.
3) War shield, only works if no phase traversal from rev.
4) Long evades: Mes blurred frenzy, pistol whip, ranger 1h sword

That is the smallest set of counters for any ability out there. If the OP’s suggestion of ramping damage was used, mitagation via late dodge would be more reasonable, or if the evade didnt last the whole duration, interrupts would function as counters.

engi invis/block/elixir
warrior shield stance/endure pain/whirlwind into dodge full negate
Guardian Renewed focus, shelter, aegis into evade/focus 5
thief stealth/evade skills
necro deathshroud/plauge form
mesmer invis/blurred frenzy/shatter 4
ranger many evades/ signet of stone/ protect me
ele mist form, focus invulns evade on dagger 3 in fire and air 5 into a dodge/arcane shield.

Now before you tell me why you would use any of these for a 10s CD skill…
Let me ask you will you just stand there and take any of the following low cd multi hit dmg skills for free?
Ranger rapid fire
warrior HB
mesmer blurred frenzy
thief pistol whip
guardian whirling wrath

You can easily interrupt the ability within its 3/4 cat with its super obvious eviscerate animation, at the start of the ability. You can also troll the Revenant by taking it to your team while he is in UA to kitten him with no remorse.

Also lets not forget the after cast time where you can get damaged very badly unless you spend energy to cast a skill to save you or use a dodge.

Agreed. There are a lot more ways to counter it than people realize. Also, I don’t like to put skills in a vacuum, but people seem to forget that out of similar skills such as Blurred Frenzy, Hundred Blades, Rapid Fire, and Pistol Whip, Unrelenting Assault does the least amount of damage. Each of those 5 skills have different advantages and disadvantages to their use. I personally believe UA is fine as is, but I know many do not.

As to the topic, while I will agree that this change would give the skill more counterplay, I don’t think that it will help alleviate any of the complaints in the future. A typical player will see the revenant start hitting them and then immediately dodge/block/whatever. They will end up taking more damage with this change, as the last few hits that make it past the defense will do extra damage. I think it is a cool idea as it punishes bad play, but I foresee a lot of future complaints to what is essentially a direct damage increase against a majority of people. Just my two cents.

People have suggested compressing the skill into a shorter time frame, which is a fine idea. If Roy decides to go that route, I’d like to see them first try it with a 1.5 sec duration, rather than the 1 sec duration some have suggested.

Hmm….I like it as 2s. This way I can use it as defensive tool. Any reduction on our defenses will imbalance our other aspects i.e. make us more vulnerable to conditions.

Rym.1469:

Hmm….I like it as 2s. This way I can use it as defensive tool. Any reduction on our defenses will imbalance our other aspects i.e. make us more vulnerable to conditions.

I’d prefer to keep it as is too. But if they do decide to go that route, I’d rather try a modest change first.

The other thing that some people have been talking about is that when people got wrecked in 1v1, it was likely a combination of Shiro’s heal with UA. It could be that the only thing that really needs to be looked at is how those two skills interact.

Mosharn.8357:

engi invis/block/elixir
warrior shield stance/endure pain/whirlwind into dodge full negate
Guardian Renewed focus, shelter, aegis into evade/focus 5
thief stealth/evade skills
necro deathshroud/plauge form
mesmer invis/blurred frenzy/shatter 4
ranger many evades/ signet of stone/ protect me
ele mist form, focus invulns evade on dagger 3 in fire and air 5 into a dodge/arcane shield.

Now before you tell me why you would use any of these for a 10s CD skill…
Let me ask you will you just stand there and take any of the following low cd multi hit dmg skills for free?
Ranger rapid fire
warrior HB
mesmer blurred frenzy
thief pistol whip
guardian whirling wrath

You can easily interrupt the ability within its 3/4 cat with its super obvious eviscerate animation, at the start of the ability. You can also troll the Revenant by taking it to your team while he is in UA to kitten him with no remorse.

Also lets not forget the after cast time where you can get damaged very badly unless you spend energy to cast a skill to save you or use a dodge.

It was already discussed at length earlier in the thread that very long cooldown utility skills are not the primary counters to weapon skills, weaponskills counter weaponskills. In other words, immunities obviously can stop direct damage just like double dodge, but no skill in the game other than UA actually requires an immunity or double dodge to counter it for most classes. If you remove double-dodging and utility skills from your list, you will have the list I just posted.

DeathShroud is mitigation, not a counter. Deathshroud is a healthbar, the necro is not dead (generally) until he runs out of both healthbars.

Of all the comparable skills that you listed, every single one can be 100% countered with either 1 dodge OR 1 interrupt. That is a huge difference. Why does UA get a pass?

The 3/4sec tooltip cast time is not the same as “the period in which UA can be interrupted.” The backflip animation is much faster than that, and activation times (as you can see from looking at most skills on the wiki) are drastically different than listed tooltip times.

As far as constructive feedback, there was a great suggestion in either this thread or the other one that maybe UA could be countered by stopping when the target left the radius of the spell. This would introduce ride-the-lightning and weapon leap or movement skills as a counter. Not sure its the best idea, but it was good and constructive.

Raven.9603:

Mosharn.8357:

engi invis/block/elixir
warrior shield stance/endure pain/whirlwind into dodge full negate
Guardian Renewed focus, shelter, aegis into evade/focus 5
thief stealth/evade skills
necro deathshroud/plauge form
mesmer invis/blurred frenzy/shatter 4
ranger many evades/ signet of stone/ protect me
ele mist form, focus invulns evade on dagger 3 in fire and air 5 into a dodge/arcane shield.

Now before you tell me why you would use any of these for a 10s CD skill…
Let me ask you will you just stand there and take any of the following low cd multi hit dmg skills for free?
Ranger rapid fire
warrior HB
mesmer blurred frenzy
thief pistol whip
guardian whirling wrath

You can easily interrupt the ability within its 3/4 cat with its super obvious eviscerate animation, at the start of the ability. You can also troll the Revenant by taking it to your team while he is in UA to kitten him with no remorse.

Also lets not forget the after cast time where you can get damaged very badly unless you spend energy to cast a skill to save you or use a dodge.

It was already discussed at length earlier in the thread that very long cooldown utility skills are not the primary counters to weapon skills, weaponskills counter weaponskills. In other words, immunities obviously can stop direct damage just like double dodge, but no skill in the game other than UA actually requires an immunity or double dodge to counter it for most classes. If you remove double-dodging and utility skills from your list, you will have the list I just posted.

DeathShroud is mitigation, not a counter. Deathshroud is a healthbar, the necro is not dead (generally) until he runs out of both healthbars.

Of all the comparable skills that you listed, every single one can be 100% countered with either 1 dodge OR 1 interrupt. That is a huge difference. Why does UA get a pass?

The 3/4sec tooltip cast time is not the same as “the period in which UA can be interrupted.” The backflip animation is much faster than that, and activation times (as you can see from looking at most skills on the wiki) are drastically different than listed tooltip times.

As far as constructive feedback, there was a great suggestion in either this thread or the other one that maybe UA could be countered by stopping when the target left the radius of the spell. This would introduce ride-the-lightning and weapon leap or movement skills as a counter. Not sure its the best idea, but it was good and constructive.

Did you just say Deathshroud is just another healthbar? Wow…. You just discredited yourself with that alone.

Also, you’ve got some other misinformation in there too. I’d suggest rethinking some of your claims.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Did you just say Deathshroud is just another healthbar? Wow…. You just discredited yourself with that alone.

Also, you’ve got some other misinformation in there too. I’d suggest rethinking some of your claims.

Oh no, not my forum cred! How will I ever grow to be a big respected forum thug if the little thugs don’t think I be keepin’ it real? Look, this is the Revenant forum. Its about to be the new Most Played Class in the Game, and a lot of people want it to be as strong as possible. No one coming here and saying “i think this revenant skill should have more counters in PvP”, no matter how polite they are, is going to expect any kind of nice treatment or respect. I’m not worried about it.

Deathshroud functions much like a healthbar. Necros typically dont die until they have exhausted both life force and health. You don’t stop DPS’ing a necro when he shrouds, because damage taken in DS is still real damage and reduces his life force total.
Deathshroud is not a counter to taking damage, its a mitigation.

I’m happy to discuss other falsehoods you believe i made, or parallels that aren’t clear, but quoting someone and saying “theres misinformation here” without pointing it out isnt constructive. constructive would be discussing ways the skill could be adjusted to be more effectively countered, or debating why those ways arent good, or putting forth a comparison to other skills which function similar and also dont have a counter.