Guild Wars 2

Will Shrouding Mists affect the siphon healing from Enchanted Daggers, Focused Siphoning, Assassin’s Annihilation? I’m assuming they will, but you never know…

and

How will the siphon heals scale with Healing Power?

Bump for dev response. Please

hope you get an answer

IM honestly curious on this as well. As im very interested in a zealots gear support/anti gank revenant.

Shadelang.3012:

IM honestly curious on this as well. As im very interested in a zealots gear support/anti gank revenant.

Yeah, if the siphon effects scale well with healing power, Zealots/Zerk could be a great combination, especially with Shiro/Ventari Legends. It would be a shame if they didn’t scale well because healing power would still have no point.

We will have to see. I have a feeling it will scale decently, but not as well as we want it to.

Bump to 1st page.

Just wait until there’s another beta weekend which probably isn’t far off.

jgcd.6041:

We will have to see. I have a feeling it will scale decently, but not as well as we want it to.

My guess is similar to how life siphon on Necros works at the moment. Not horrible, but nothing crazy either. Unless they continue the trend of giving better versions necro stuff to other profession, then it’ll be amazing.

I hope they don’t. Siphon survivability is needed on toughness builds and power builds.
Healing power builds don’t have to heal by siphoning, but with Ventari healing skills.

Siphon has to be a fixed coefficient based on damage dealt.

Kidel.2057:

I hope they don’t. Siphon survivability is needed on toughness builds and power builds.
Healing power builds don’t have to heal by siphoning, but with Ventari healing skills.

Siphon has to be a fixed coefficient based on damage dealt.

Two issues with that I can think of at the top of my head.

First. if its fixed coefficient then theres no point in investing in life steal as there will be no way to scale it aside from damage. That means pure damage builds (zerk meta ftl) will get more benefit from it than anyone else. Causing it to be just another lay of dps ontop of there own. Not really doing anything to branch out build diversity as anet said they wanted.

Second. Part of what would make a zealot’s shiro/ventari lifesteal dps/support build useful is the fact that healing power which is normally a wasted stat 90% of the time would be in constant use no matter what happens. It would also give them a way of scaling there damage higher without worrying about ferocity. (It won’t be as high as a zerk build. but the more powerful life siphons will turn them into a glassy build with middling-high damage and a high recovery rate. Easy to burst down. But if you fail the burst hes gonna be at full health quickly).

If we took that away thats another gearset/playstyle out of the window already. And it would hurt the shiro/ventari combination in general. Ventari would become banished to bunker focused builds as the gear stat required to make use of ventari’s skills would be completely useless in the other lines.

Edit: also from a balancing perspective having lifesteal scale off of raw damage just seems like a horrible idea. We already have issues with builds that are nearly unkillable in 1v1 and yet are able to deal large amounts of damage. Do we REALLY wan’t zerk shiro/jalis revenant to become another of those?

Having siphons scale from healing power is just like having them at minimal effectiveness 100% of the time.

Moving toughness to healing power will damage tank builds. Moving power/crit to healing power will damage dps builds. None of those builds will bother.

Also what benefits do healer builds gain from siphons? Healing Revenant just has to move the tablet around, you won’t get to siphon very often. You won’t attack at all probably.

So healer builds won’t use siphons and all other builds are not going to invest in healing power. Why the hell should siphon scale from healing power? Just to lower our dps to have a little bit more survivability (and maybe still less then knight builds)?

Kidel.2057:

Having siphons scale from healing power is just like having them at minimal effectiveness 100% of the time.

Moving toughness to healing power will damage tank builds. Moving power/crit to healing power will damage dps builds. None of those builds will bother.

Also what benefits do healer builds gain from siphons? Healing Revenant just has to move the tablet around, you won’t get to siphon very often. You won’t attack at all probably.

So healer builds won’t use siphons and all other builds are not going to invest in healing power. Why the hell should siphon scale from healing power? Just to lower our dps to have a little bit more survivability (and maybe still less then knight builds)?

The idea is to have a build that resists attrition. Thats the entire idea of life steal in nearly every game I have played. You sacrifice your crit damage in return for reliable healing. Allowing you to stay in and continue dpsing when you get spiked instead of immediately retreating to heal. Atleast thats the way life steal style builds have played in every RPG and MMO I have played to date that featured them.

The goal isn’t to move toughness to healing power and create a new tank build. A tank build will ALWAYS be toughness or vitality focused. End of story. Healing power isn’t just for tank builds however so what your describing doesn’t really apply.

Also when you talk about healing revenants your assuming your camping one one legend. Spamming its skills. We already know that isn’t how the revenant plays. Also. We probably won’t attack at all? Thats foolish at best in all 3 game modes.

I made the idea based on zealots gear so ill use some examples based on that. A shiro/ventari revenant is supporting his zerg or his guild using the tablet and sees an ally being attacked by a thief. The rev cans witch to shiro and engage the thief and still put enough damage pressure to force the thief to back off. And he has the life steal so that even if the thief engages him instead he can still sustain through as long as hes skilled until his ally is safe. Then he can use shiro skills to evade away and switch back to ventari.

In dungeons (or whatever “hard group content” is going to be) a pure healing build probably still won’t be viable. So throwing on clerics gear still won’t be the best use of your stats. However the aforementioned revenant can both heal AND deal a decent amount of damage. Switching back and forth as necessary to support the grp or kill his enemies.

As to what healing builds benefit from siphons. If I was just going to camp ventari (No decent revenant will ever just camp legends from what I can tell. It would be a sign of a bad rev) you would be right. However thats a horrible idea. Odds are youd be attacking and dealing damage as well. The entire idea is to combine the aspects of a healing build with a dps build. Sacrificing the personal survivability to do so. (again. Glassy playstyle with a very high recovery rate).

So its not a healing build in the traditional sense. Its a dps/support hybrid. And dps builds that are engaging targets likely WILL be taking damage. Lifesteal means tehy can take more damage before they have to peel off. Giving them a higher damage uptime than pure glass players. So they might not be doing as much damage. But outside of speed clearing quality groups its likely you will have higher dps UPTIME.

Which makes your third statement pointless as its built off the assumption of the second. Which is false.

As for why? To enable a playstyle that doesn’t exist at this time. And to give players a different way of playing.

And to give players a style that allows them to support there team through healing without being completely useless in every other aspect.

Having lifesteal scale off healing power (which it does right now in game) won’t affect ANY OTHER BUILD TYPE IN THE GAME. It will create a new one

in general in GW2:
IF lifesteal scales: (it doesn’t always. it depends on the skill, food effect, rune, sigil)
~the damage from lifesteal / siphon scales from power
~the healing from lifesteal / siphon scales from healing power

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_stealing

Damage

Each life steal deals a specific amount of damage ignoring armor. The damage they deal is also unaffected by % damage increases, such as the Sigil of Force or the Close to Death trait. Some scale off of power while others don’t.

Healing

Each life steal heals for a specific amount. Some life steals scale off of healing power while others don’t.

Only siphons from runes,foods and sigils don’t scale with healing power to my knowledge so why is this even a topic? Did I miss something or is necro forgotten?

Oh and look, no necro is bothering with healing power builds.

Kidel.2057:

Oh and look, no necro is bothering weith healing power builds. Useless multiplier

(Fails to come up with arguments to a counter post. Latches onto someone elses post)

The thing is healing power and necros have always had an akward scaling. And lifesteal scales with the number of people you hit. Seeing as there melee weapon hits a max of two people its no wonder they have a hard time using it. Atleast as far as WvW is concerned. In PvE right now healing power in general isn’t needed. Combine that with necromancers in general being seen as sub par (whether thats true or not I leave to the experts involved) of course there gonna run the zerk meta.

Another thing is life steal alone isn’t enough to be worth healing power investment. Its meant to be an addition not a sole reason for being. Frankly necro has better traits they can run than the siphon traits that fulfill there assigned role in various game modes more effectively.

The difference here is that a shiro ventari revenant isn’t just life steal focused. They have significant methods of using healing power outside of JUST life steal. The issue is that without the lifesteal scaling on healing power healing power itself loses effectiveness when you swap out of ventari to a different legend in order to engage an enemy.

As long as the revenant lifesteals scale properly (thats up in the air at this point) a Devestation/Salvation/X revenant will be able to make use of healing power both while in ventari stance and while outside of it. There won’t be long periods of innactivity for that stat. Causing the value of the stat to increase. Again. This all depends on the quality of the scaling. Which is the entire purpose of the original post.

A dev repsonse to clear this up would do wonders haha.

Edit: As for Tpvp currently the zealots amulet doesn’t exist there. Seeing as its currently the only stat set available that can maximize the effectiveness of scaling life steals (High Power for damage. Middling healing power for scaling) while still having enough precision to make the effects worth investing in (barring certain trait effects I.E. Reaper/soul reaping/blood magic combo) while still having enough healing power to make the effects noticeable on the support aspect the point seems moot as far as tpvp goes.

Kidel.2057:

Oh and look, no necro is bothering with healing power builds.

I’m currently using celestial on my necro coupled with the GM minor of Blood Magic I feel confident saying it’s doing way better than power or condi necro possibly even better than soldier signet only comparable build would be MM necro, support/bunker necro is also a thing.

Leave room for experimenting and again only siphon from runes,sigils and food don’t scale asking them to not scale is the same as asking condition to do great damage with no investment in condition damage.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

in general in GW2:
IF lifesteal scales: (it doesn’t always. it depends on the skill, food effect, rune, sigil)
~the damage from lifesteal / siphon scales from power
~the healing from lifesteal / siphon scales from healing power

Exactly.

If the healing part of the siphon traits scales off healing power, it would make healing power a decent stat for Shiro/Ventari revenants, since you get benefit from both Legends. Since the damage portion scales from power, it would make Zealots a decent set for that build, having both damage and sustain with group support.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

You’ll have to wait to play with it

WHENNNNNNNNN?! :E
yeah, I know, when it’s ready™

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

You’ll have to wait to play with it

WHENNNNNNNNN?! :E
yeah, I know, when it's ready (tm)

Soon™

Uh. Can you give us any hint about the next beta weekend period? Can we expect one before the end of August?

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Forgotten Legend.9281:

in general in GW2:
IF lifesteal scales: (it doesn’t always. it depends on the skill, food effect, rune, sigil)
~the damage from lifesteal / siphon scales from power
~the healing from lifesteal / siphon scales from healing power

Exactly.

If the healing part of the siphon traits scales off healing power, it would make healing power a decent stat for Shiro/Ventari revenants, since you get benefit from both Legends. Since the damage portion scales from power, it would make Zealots a decent set for that build, having both damage and sustain with group support.

It scales like the necromancer’s life siphon traits; power increases the damage and healing power increasing the healing of the life siphon. You’ll have to wait to play with it to see how it scales.

Hooray! Thanks for the reply Roy, but we already sort of knew that would be the case I was after the exact numbers, but ok, I can wait… But I’ll to wait until late December, because I am in Antarctica until then!

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Forgotten Legend.9281:

in general in GW2:
IF lifesteal scales: (it doesn’t always. it depends on the skill, food effect, rune, sigil)
~the damage from lifesteal / siphon scales from power
~the healing from lifesteal / siphon scales from healing power

Exactly.

If the healing part of the siphon traits scales off healing power, it would make healing power a decent stat for Shiro/Ventari revenants, since you get benefit from both Legends. Since the damage portion scales from power, it would make Zealots a decent set for that build, having both damage and sustain with group support.

It scales like the necromancer’s life siphon traits; power increases the damage and healing power increasing the healing of the life siphon. You’ll have to wait to play with it to see how it scales.

Hooray! Thanks for the reply Roy, but we already sort of knew that would be the case I was after the exact numbers, but ok, I can wait… But I’ll to wait until late December, because I am in Antarctica until then!

What the heck are you going to be doing down there? Microbial research? Study the penguins? Just need to cool off for a bit?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Forgotten Legend.9281:

in general in GW2:
IF lifesteal scales: (it doesn’t always. it depends on the skill, food effect, rune, sigil)
~the damage from lifesteal / siphon scales from power
~the healing from lifesteal / siphon scales from healing power

Exactly.

If the healing part of the siphon traits scales off healing power, it would make healing power a decent stat for Shiro/Ventari revenants, since you get benefit from both Legends. Since the damage portion scales from power, it would make Zealots a decent set for that build, having both damage and sustain with group support.

It scales like the necromancer’s life siphon traits; power increases the damage and healing power increasing the healing of the life siphon. You’ll have to wait to play with it to see how it scales.

Hooray! Thanks for the reply Roy, but we already sort of knew that would be the case I was after the exact numbers, but ok, I can wait… But I’ll to wait until late December, because I am in Antarctica until then!

What the heck are you going to be doing down there? Microbial research? Study the penguins? Just need to cool off for a bit?

I’m already down here, been here since November last year. I look after the mechanical equipment and generators down here, best job ever! Too bad there is not enough bandwidth to play GW2 though heh, well, it IS Antarctica afterall…

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Forgotten Legend.9281:

in general in GW2:
IF lifesteal scales: (it doesn’t always. it depends on the skill, food effect, rune, sigil)
~the damage from lifesteal / siphon scales from power
~the healing from lifesteal / siphon scales from healing power

Exactly.

If the healing part of the siphon traits scales off healing power, it would make healing power a decent stat for Shiro/Ventari revenants, since you get benefit from both Legends. Since the damage portion scales from power, it would make Zealots a decent set for that build, having both damage and sustain with group support.

It scales like the necromancer’s life siphon traits; power increases the damage and healing power increasing the healing of the life siphon. You’ll have to wait to play with it to see how it scales.

Hooray! Thanks for the reply Roy, but we already sort of knew that would be the case I was after the exact numbers, but ok, I can wait… But I’ll to wait until late December, because I am in Antarctica until then!

What the heck are you going to be doing down there? Microbial research? Study the penguins? Just need to cool off for a bit?

I’m already down here, been here since November last year. I look after the mechanical equipment and generators down here, best job ever! Too bad there is not enough bandwidth to play GW2 though heh, well, it IS Antarctica afterall…

Wow! That’s pretty cool (pun intended). I had just learned about how despite being a desert of sorts that there’s always 3000 +/- people there all year long.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Forgotten Legend.9281:

in general in GW2:
IF lifesteal scales: (it doesn’t always. it depends on the skill, food effect, rune, sigil)
~the damage from lifesteal / siphon scales from power
~the healing from lifesteal / siphon scales from healing power

Exactly.

If the healing part of the siphon traits scales off healing power, it would make healing power a decent stat for Shiro/Ventari revenants, since you get benefit from both Legends. Since the damage portion scales from power, it would make Zealots a decent set for that build, having both damage and sustain with group support.

It scales like the necromancer’s life siphon traits; power increases the damage and healing power increasing the healing of the life siphon. You’ll have to wait to play with it to see how it scales.

wee ty roy for clarifying, siphon health is one of my favorite aspects of gw2 and love that rev gets it. now just gotta wait til the next beta to test it