Guild Wars 2

Rubi: “You can’t have everything.”
Hugh: “Well, we can have a lot of things.”

Warrior in a nutshell.

Can we have some more toys please? xD

How are we supposed to counter berserker without investing everything we have on condi cleanse and Mallyx? That thing burns basically on every action and is virtually immortal while in berserk. Its healing is an upgraded version of Shiro’s and has aoe taunt.

You previously said “we can’t have everything” and I agree.
But what Berserker (and Ele btw) doesn’t have?

• Higher raw damage
• Burst (now, quote, “sustained burst”)
• Aoe condi cleanse on torch and utility skills
• Probably one of the highest condi damage in the game (burning is OP, regardless of Berserker)
• AOE Taunt every 12 seconds

Please nerf Berserker (and Ele/Mesmer) or give us something to counter this beast.

Down with the Berserker!

They will be reverent of the revenant!

I do have to say, it does bother me when I think about his “can’t have everything” quote and then I remember eles and warriors exist in this game. -_- He’s not wrong, so I don’t fault him for saying this. Problem is there are classes that kind of throw that quote out the window…

Wow,

Just read the stream notes… Pretty sure I’m going to die every time I see a war in WvW now.

xarallei.4279:

I do have to say, it does bother me when I think about his “can’t have everything” quote and then I remember eles and warriors exist in this game. -_- He’s not wrong, so I don’t fault him for saying this. Problem is there are classes that kind of throw that quote out the window…

Exactly what I think. While some classes don’t get nerfed, every class should be able to amulate them, otherwise we’ll still have those situations where your class is not “meta” so gets kicked from the dungeon.

I’m beffudled at the “you can’t die while berserking” trait
like
what the actual frig anet

It’s so blatantly obvious that warrior is their favorite profession and every single time I see Hugh on a stream I want to rip my eyes out. It’s literally “the class I made for myself so I never lose!”

Can’t have everything? “Lol of course I can I’m a warrior”
How do you counter this? -proceeds to completely doge the question and talk about how broken and op warriors are-

Everyone behind warriors is honestly quite a liability for this game’s balance

Vennyhedgie.5369:

I’m beffudled at the “you can’t die while berserking” trait
like
what the actual frig anet

It’s so blatantly obvious that warrior is their favorite profession and every single time I see Hugh on a stream I want to rip my eyes out. It’s literally “the class I made for myself so I never lose!”

Can’t have everything? “Lol of course I can I’m a warrior”
How do you counter this? -proceeds to completely doge the question and talk about how broken and op warriors are-

Everyone behind warriors is honestly quite a liability for this game’s balance

u can’t fault the guy for loving his class and doing his best to make it better.

u can fault the rest of the team for not having that passion for their classes and/or not pushing back on his classes buffs

I agree Roy, every class should have strengths and weaknesses. If you say condi is the revenant’s weakness then so be it. I accept that. But some classes are good at everything and pretty much don’t have any weaknesses.

This was more like a joke thread, but Roy is our boy.
I can accept that classes have a weakness, but this should apply to every class, and not only elite specs. Got faith in our devs, this stream was hilarious.

Kidel.2057:

Its healing is an upgraded version of Shiro’s

Right, you know the heal on guardian which nobody uses?…
shiro’s heal is actually more constant and more reliable as a healing skill compare to that one.

it’s also pretty funny because revenant subforum as of now is the only place where people still calling warrior OP for idk what reason..

Warrior really will have a nice condi spec with that, especially with the 8stacks of burn on berserker version of flurry. Really dont want to be on the end of that, especially when they got the possibility of spamming it pretty quickly (between rage skills and possibilty of no cooldown if something dies it is theoratically possible for them to get 2-4 out pretty kitten quickly). Of course I doubt in reality that will happen often in pvp, in wvw/pve trash it could well become viable.

(warrior isnt overpowered currently, just it is good at everything therefore it always viable. This is why it always a key part in most meta’s. Strong attack, strong survival, strong support, strong condi removal etc etc – it may not be overpowered at any one thing but it basically has no telling weaknesses like most other classes)

I’ll give you a counter to berserker:
Hybrid builds.

What I’ve found is that burst builds v warriors are susceptible to a warriors burst. Condition builds usually can’t stack quite enough conditions to DPS them down fast enough because of the multiple cleanses they have now (if the Condi player is good enough they wi eventually kill the war, but it will take a while).
Hybrid builds, however, usually can out heal warrior, and usually deals eniugh damage in both fronts to overwhelm the warrior pretty quickly

So hybrid rev ftw

Berserker’s rage utilities offer no condition cleanse and their torch only cleanse 2. This is far from sufficient and so the warrior has to trait other lines to counter conditions. Traiting defense, discipline or dedicate another heal utilities will mean sacrificing a potential offense power, as expected for balance purpose. So tbh berserker is in the same boat as revenant.

Btw the new flurry has no immobilize and projectile speed seems to be slightly lower than normal projectiles, so I wouldn’t worry too much about getting hit point blank.

Tbh, if Embrace the Darkness was maybe -7 instead of -8 and pulsed Demonic Defiance, it would be an awesome counter to such single-condition specs.

What people don’t seem to realize is that in order to spec berserker, warriors have to give up:

-Strength, which means no Greatsword trait, Berserker’s Power or Stick and Move. That means more CD on GS skills, -40% total potential damage increase and might on crits with your GS, or just -30% damage on all other weapons. Or Body Blow and Distracting Strikes for condi/hybrid Mace.

or

-Defense, which means bye bye to the strongest defensive traits the warrior has: Dogged March, Adrenal Health, Defy Pain and Cleansing Ire.

or

-Discipline, which means no more Fast Hands, Warrior’s Sprint and all the other useful ones. You get the memo by now.

The Berserker may seem to be a stright up upgrade from Warrior (from a PvP perspective), and it may be, who don’t know yet, but if you think through it all a bit further…
Let’s say you don’t give up either Defense nor Discipline in favour of Berserker, so if you give up Strength you’re most likely ditching both mace and greatsword (specially the later). No GS means greatly reduced mobility and overall direct damage pressure. And there goes your Distracting Strikes condi mace build too.
If they instead choose to ditch Defense in favour of Berserker, said warrior is now incredibly susceptible to conditions. If they want to get rid of Discipline, well, Fast Hands goes bye bye, dare I say more?

All the potential builds I’m coming up with Berserker as a fixed chosen spec line have strong weaknesses or have to make huge trade offs, and that’s how it should be. Berserker doesn’t really feel like a stright up blatant upgrade like Chronomancer currently is (but we’ll have to test ourselves this one though).
I can definetly see some potential outliers such as Savage Instinct, Eternal Champion, Outrage and Head Butt (yes, it also stun breaks), making their anti-CC capabilities a little too strong. Also, with all those traits Head Butt’s 3 second stun could turn out to be a little too strong considering its extremely low CD.

With that said, I wouldn’t worry about berserkers just yet, we’ll just have to test it first.

Khenzy.9348:

-Defense, which means bye bye to the strongest defensive traits the warrior has: Dogged March, Adrenal Health, Defy Pain and Cleansing Ire.

Yeah, give up to this. It’s pretty simple.
You basically can’t die while in berserker mode. You get 2,6k heal + bonus heal for adrenaline if you get a fatal hit. You don’t really need defense with this class.
Highest hp pool, heavy armor, invincibility while in berserk, aoe taunt, stuns, cc, stability. Not counting all the damagem of course. You’ll melt anything before taking any damage.

You already get tons of condi cleanse and stability+strunbreaks from berserker and torch, plus a lot of cc (AOE taunt every 12 seconds is HUGE).

Another problem is that now berserker also has basically infinite fire fields (and a moving one). There will be no need for class cooperation on those, you just need 1 berserker to do the job of 2 elementalists, and ele is already pretty OP.

Also this:
(I mean, who cares when you can pop a rifle F1 and do 6k damage on 5 targets + 3.5k damage on 25 targets + aoe burning on 25+ targets, and if they already had burning you also spread it with explosion trait up to 125 targets, and ONLY if they add the 5 targets limit, currently it’s not even limited. How to 1hit kill a zerk group: the class)

Khenzy.9348:

…
All the potential builds I’m coming up with Berserker as a fixed chosen spec line have strong weaknesses or have to make huge trade offs, and that’s how it should be. Berserker doesn’t really feel like a stright up blatant upgrade like Chronomancer currently is (but we’ll have to test ourselves this one though). …

Such a passionate and educated speech about having trade offs when picking a specialization and then… this… Somewhere a kitten just died because of hypocracy.

Concept aside (which is great), people should expect incomming nerfs for Berserkers.

Kidel.2057:

Also this:
(I mean, who cares when you can pop a rifle F1 and do 6k damage on 5 targets + 3.5k damage on 25 targets + aoe burning on 25+ targets, and if they already had burning you also spread it with explosion trait up to 125 targets, and ONLY if they add the 5 targets limit, currently it’s not even limited. How to 1hit kill a zerk group: the class)

Thanks for the screenshot. Priceless.

Gun Flame is probably one of the most insane things they have shown so far and also one of the most overboard things on Berserkers. ANet nerfed Engineer traited Pistol AA into the ground for way less. I’ll doubt the devs sanity if they don’t adjust the numbers and effects on this one.

?_?

I have a feeling you are just emotionally regurgitating on what berserkers got rather than seeing the opportunity costs in berserker. You’re not even reading our stuff properly….where exactly do you see ton of condition cleanse, especially when you disregard defense line? Also seeing Robert’s habit on mesmer and necro, he’ll likely increase CD anything he deemed “a little overpowered”. So I wouldn’t worry too much on berserker in expansion release.

Kidel.2057:

Also this:
(I mean, who cares when you can pop a rifle F1 and do 6k damage on 5 targets + 3.5k damage on 25 targets + aoe burning on 25+ targets, and if they already had burning you also spread it with explosion trait up to 125 targets, and ONLY if they add the 5 targets limit, currently it’s not even limited. How to 1hit kill a zerk group: the class)

+the attached image: my reaction exacly

Let me add that rifle f1 has 5s cd and it’s not hard to spam it, also because you can stay permanently in Berserk.

Xaylin.1860:

Khenzy.9348:

…
All the potential builds I’m coming up with Berserker as a fixed chosen spec line have strong weaknesses or have to make huge trade offs, and that’s how it should be. Berserker doesn’t really feel like a stright up blatant upgrade like Chronomancer currently is (but we’ll have to test ourselves this one though). …

Such a passionate and educated speech about having trade offs when picking a specialization and then… this… Somewhere a kitten just died because of hypocr*i*cy.

Concept aside (which is great), people should expect incomming nerfs for Berserkers.

Did you even play chronomancer in beta? Did you read all the feedback? They had some well justified nerfs with the last changes Robert Gee posted. Chronomancer performed better in every game mode last beta over other mesmer specs. Chrono is the only elite spec (so far) that rivals or even gains a DPS increase for PvE as well. The F5 was just the cherry on top. I’m talking out of experience here as well, but regarding the berserker, we are just merely speculating at this point, but I’m usually right, we’ll see.

Guys, pls.

You can make anything sound overpowered if you want.

One could point out that revenant has the potential to do over 18k damage (in PvP) while evading on a might-stacking attack that will chase down any opponent (unrelenting assault).

But, why don’t we just see how it all plays first?

Implying warriors will be objective and ask for a nerf if the class turns out OP.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

where exactly do you see ton of condition cleanse, especially when you disregard defense line?

Shout+that moving fire field on torch 5.

Um..warriors arent that good. Thing is they will cc like no tomorrow..and we all know revenant abilities to stunbreak outside Shiro (read it as 0) cus reasons..

I still trying to undertand why pain absord didnt become stunbreak.

skowcia.8257:

Um..warriors arent that good. Thing is they will cc like no tomorrow..and we all know revenant abilities to stunbreak outside Shiro (read it as 0) cus reasons..

I still trying to undertand why pain absord didnt become stunbreak.

Because it’s already incredibly strong, I ’d imagine.

Kidel.2057:

Also this:
(I mean, who cares when you can pop a rifle F1 and do 6k damage on 5 targets + 3.5k damage on 25 targets + aoe burning on 25+ targets, and if they already had burning you also spread it with explosion trait up to 125 targets, and ONLY if they add the 5 targets limit, currently it’s not even limited. How to 1hit kill a zerk group: the class)

I’m really going to enjoy when Line of Reflection or Feedback makes that wipe their own zerg with the hugely obvious drop a knee tell.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

It’s good to have some things professions are stronger at and other parts they are weaker at.

And Necromancer is awsome at stuff that does not matter- everything is fine

that thing can be used every 5 seconds (it’s not really hard to stack adrenaline now, berserk mode is basically a skill you can use on cd and you don’t even need to build up). reflects are not so easy to access, plus can just be used once a reflect wears off.

Khenzy.9348:

Xaylin.1860:

Khenzy.9348:

…

Such a passionate and educated speech about having trade offs when picking a specialization and then… this… Somewhere a kitten just died because of hypocr*i*cy.

Concept aside (which is great), people should expect incomming nerfs for Berserkers.

Did you even play chronomancer in beta? Did you read all the feedback? They had some well justified nerfs with the last changes Robert Gee posted. Chronomancer performed better in every game mode last beta over other mesmer specs. Chrono is the only elite spec (so far) that rivals or even gains a DPS increase for PvE as well. The F5 was just the cherry on top. I’m talking out of experience here as well, but regarding the berserker, we are just merely speculating at this point, but I’m usually right, we’ll see.

Uh. I see what you did there. Classy move. Especially when having a conversation with a non-native speaker. But no hard feelings.

Although I didn’t touch on the state of Chronomancers last beta weekend or their current state, nor defend them in any way, I’d like to give you some answers: Yes, I’ve played the Chronomancer. Yes, some things were out of line. It so happens that Chronomancers were nerfed. Rightfully so. I’d also like to question your claim of Chronomancers having performed better than the base class in every game mode. First, because people weren’t use to the spec (PvP / WvW). Second, because you got circumstantial evidence at best. The only thing safe to say is that Mesmers gained area damage through Wells which doesn’t automatically equal a damage increase unless we are talking about bashing tash mobs. Sword is still the best damaging weapon. Domination still packs the best damage modifier. Duelling is still needed for Minors and Fencers Finesse. Inspiration is still best for group support. Chaos is still the go to for interrupt and lockdown builds. Illusions still is great for blowing up clones. And Slow actually sucked in PvE.

However, this has nothing to do with my point. It also has nothing to do with the fact that you don’t have to play everything on your own to realize it’s too powerful or too weak. Some things might be too complicated to judge without trying them yourself. But I think the demonstration of, for example, Flame Gun provides enough information to evaluate the skill.

You brought up the point that picking a specialization means making a sacrifice in form of giving up other trait lines. This is true. But Warriors are in no way in a significantly worse position than any other class. Every class has to make this sacrifice. Your example gets worse when you drift off to bashing Chronomancers although Mesmers are one of the more trait dependent classes in the game – if not even the most trait dependent one.

Amusingly, Berserkers are in a very similar position as Chronomancers even though you claim Mesmers are the only ones getting something ‘on top’ of their class. Berserker mode is not too different from F5. It is an additional way of spending your resource without giving up their original functionality. And guess what: Mesmers also have to give up survivability, support or damage from other traitlines if they want to pick Chronomancy.

I think this discussion could go on for a while. Since it’s not about Revenants, though, we probably should take it somewhere else if you feel like doing so.

Kidel.2057:

Implying warriors will be objective and ask for a nerf if the class turns out OP.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

where exactly do you see ton of condition cleanse, especially when you disregard defense line?

Shout+that moving fire field on torch 5.

This is why I dislike cross-class comparison. Clearly you do not play warrior enough and you’re banking your argument on something you have limited knowledge of. You’ll only be spreading false information and gather a bunch of clueless people who knows little about warrior to complain with you.

Shoutbow has been out of meta since June’s trait rework. Your shouts will, at best, remove 1-2 conditions on a 20s CD at the cost of lots offense power that rage utilities have to offer. 1-2 condi removal on that long CD is far from ton of sustained condi cleanse, so a condi thief, condi mesmer or even a smart burn guard will wrack you. To top it off you choose one of the worst traitline in PvP warrior, which tells me you don’t know what you are saying. The fact that you discarding CI will only make your shout warrior lack burst condi cleanse, so engi and necro can pile more than enough conditions to kill you, even if you burn all your cleanses. If you read the description, torch #5 will only cleanse 2 conditions on a 25s CD. If you want that CD to drop to 20s, then you’re sacrificing the precious Dead or Alive trait that you claimed made warrior invincible. In conclusion, any condi player will be able to defeat your build unless they have absolutely no idea what they’re doing.

Regardless of your horrible choices only bring minimal benefits, notice every decision you made have an offensive opportunity cost as I pointed out? This is where balance comes in, a berserker does not have everything in its build. And keep pointing at rifle burst won’t change that.

I could say the same thing about mesmer. Any mesmer who traits for chronomancer has some sort of opportunity cost.

• Domi/Duel/Chrono power gives you very little condi cleanse
• Duel/Chaos/Chrono (people’s so called OP PU chrono) offers very little shatter benefit so cleaving illusions will leave mesmer offensiveless. Essentially like 2013 PU mesmer but this time you don’t suffer from clone death proc when mindlessly cleaving his illusion.
• Chaos/Illusion/Chrono very limited on demand illusion generation so again, cleave the illusions will deprive mesmer of offensive power and you won’t have to worry about clone deaths.
• Duel/Illusion/Chrono is more of a condi set up but you lack the “OMG OP PU”.
• Duel/inspi/Chrono offers more sustain but you can’t kill anyone with.
• Chaos/Inspi/Chrono is pure bunker type and he’ll have even harder time to kill you.
  You are welcome to come up with other mesmer trait combinations and I can tell you the opportunity cost in that one. But the idea is the same, anyone who goes for elite are sacrificing something for the benefit of elite.

I play all professions extensively and I can tell you comparing cross-class is really stupid.

Revenant will do fine against the Berserker. We have more than enough condition clear to deal with a class that has access to 2 – 3 DPS conditions at the best of times.

Cleanse on swap, 3 cleanse on Jalis heal, 20% damage reduction on damage with Hammers, 2 cleanse on Staff, loads of Resistance, cleanse on dodge, you can even have all that in the one build.

Sure it’ll get overwhelmed by Engis, Mesmers and Necros, but Revenant is lining up to be quite strong and tanky regarding dealing and taking Physical damage, something you can’t say for many other classes.

It’s not really a matter of 1vs1, and I’m pretty sure you can’t really tell unless you try the classes.

I prefer rev and his skills a lot more to berserker. Would pick Rev any day of the week

Also engie > zerk in condi department, hands down. That’ not even debatable

Also Rev looks like having an advantage vs zerk.

Taunt every 12 sec? good one. pretty obvious that most ppl in here haven’t a clue. Berserker mode is not interruptable and lasts 15 sec. in total thats 27 sec.

LyPiOn.8479:

Taunt every 12 sec? good one. pretty obvious that most ppl in here haven’t a clue. Berserker mode is not interruptable and lasts 15 sec. in total thats 27 sec.

it’s obvious that the ppl whining have no clue what they are talking about and they probably never even watched the point of intrest so just ignore the little kids crying

Kidel.2057:

Rubi: “You can’t have everything.”
Hugh: “Well, we can have a lot of things.”

Said no Dev about the Ranger, ever.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Kidel.2057:

Rubi: “You can’t have everything.”
Hugh: “Well, we can have a lot of things.”

Said no Dev about the Ranger, ever.

Hugh is no dev for classes nor he has any control over warrior, he only plays

and no, warrior has very little things, no teleport, no blink, very little access to conditions varieties, no insta CC, most skills are telegraphed, easy to dodge, easily blindable.

Even so I’m willing to those who do have control listen to him…