Guild Wars 2

I see many of us are complaining about energy being low, even suggesting 100 energy on swap or more upkeep generation on autoattack. Both those solutions are probably gamebreaking or pointless, here is why.

• 100 energy on swap
  This would lead to an energy cost increase on many skills, expecially elites, otherwise we would be able to spam 4 in a row (or a Revenant could just stay there spamming Jade Winds).
  If energy is increased but energy cost is increased too, then it’s just pointless. Or it’s even worse for us, since we won’t be able to gather enough energy for the newly increased energy cost.
  Moving max energy to 150 and base energy to 75 (example) would be just as lowering energy cost, that is one of my suggestion in the second half of the bost.

• Energy regen on Auto Attack
  This would allow for infinite upkeeps, or energy generation during upkeeps, since some of them only consume 3 energy/second.
  More importantly that would be bad because nobody would use weaponskills except auto attack in order to do more Jade WInds / Impossible Odds / etc

So how can we solve that?

• First suggestion:
  Just remove energy cost on SOME weaponskills o lower it (a lot). They already have a cooldown anyway.
  I see why they added energy cost on weaponskills, so we won’t camp a single legend, incentivizing legendswap to do weaponskills.
  However the cost is too punishing. It’s already hard to use 2 utility skills just by auto attacking. Using weaponskills and legend skills is too punishing.

• Second suggestion (the best one and the most simple):
  Just lower energy cost on some skills among all of them. Some are even unusable at the moment (like taunt on Jalis, come on, 50 energy? That’s the same cost as Jade Winds!).

What do you think?

EDIT: Some QoL.
As suggested by Chuck Zitto and Kaizoku, accumulated energy over 50 could linger some more after the fight is over, going down more slowly, not instantly to 50 after you stop fighting for 1 second. Also if energy on one legend is above 50, double swapping should not reset it to 50.

I would be satisfied with just 1 change : Energy staying above 50 ( If I had 50+) even after I swap legends.

Does feel wierd when u win a fight have full energy are getting ready to engage in a new fight and bam instantly back to 50 energy. Maybe make it linger on you for a considerable amount more time before it goes back to 50. Also I think the class just needs more legends total. People want to camp one legend right now cus there is only 1 that does what u want to do. 1 dps legend 1 condi legend 1 healing legend and 1 stability road legend.

Kaizoku.1298:

I would be satisfied with just 1 change : Energy staying above 50 ( If I had 50+) even after I swap legends.

That’s not a bad idea.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Does feel wierd when u win a fight have full energy are getting ready to engage in a new fight and bam instantly back to 50 energy. Maybe make it linger on you for a considerable amount more time before it goes back to 50. Also I think the class just needs more legends total. People want to camp one legend right now cus there is only 1 that does what u want to do. 1 dps legend 1 condi legend 1 healing legend and 1 stability road legend.

Agreed. Adding both to first post.

Having 100 energy out of combat would help better than 100 on swap. Let it reset to 50 on swap but let it regen to 100 out of combat. That way you can come into a fight and actually use your utilities but not be able to spam elites forever. You could even fix that by putting a cooldown on the elites and/or a slight boost to energy cost.

If you go with the gain energy on auto attack you could simply increase the energy cost on upkeep so you can’t forever upkeep it by autoattacking. But would that even be that bad if you could? If you are only autoattacking you probably aren’t doing anything useful so why not? Using other skills will eventually end your energy anyway. Impossible odds may be a bit much for that but again just increase the upkeep cost. The point of increasing energy is to be able to use more than 1 skill every 5 seconds and not just auto attack all the time.

If the make it gain energy on auto attack, people would just stop using weaponskills. It would be like adding more energy cost to other weaponskills, relatively.
AA +3 energy and skill -10 is like AA 0 and skill -13.

100 ooc and 50 at swap is something they’ll never do because they don’t want revenant to burst but to build and increase damage fighting. That’s what I got from Roy in the POI at least.

50 energy on swap, energy caps at 100 ooc, energy costs lowered on multiple skills because they’re just far too high (jalis chains as an example, 50 energy? really?)

I think it’s at least worth a shot like others have said, to allow energy regeneration to full ooc. As it stands right now with energy regen as low as it is and walking into combat always at 50%, makes me feel crippled on every fight. That’s not a feeling u want people to have. Others have suggested simply putting a cd on elites. I would gladly accept that. Right now the no cd on elites is just more trouble than its worth , since it seems to screw up energy dynamics on everything else.

no nerfs please. the class is far from being competitive yet

I think the best solution here is to remove the energy cost on weapon skills. As it stands right now you currently can’t do anything but auto attack with an upkeep skill running anyway. I think the player should be given the option to A. Marginally increase their combat effectiveness via an upkeep skill that can assist their energy free weaponskills or B. Save the energy that would be used on upkeep for the higher costing utilities and ultimates to have a more immediate effect on your combat abilities when and where you want it. Essentially upkeep skills give you a slight and more sustained boost to your combat abilities where as everything else is more “bursty” (and not just in terms of damage but bursty support, control, etc. ). Right now energy or rather the abilities energy cost is so insane that you can barely use any utilities or god forbid and ultimate and still have something left to use those weapon skills that are coming off cd. The cd on the weaponskills is more then enough to balance them they don’t need to take us away from our ability to utilize the legends.

Also I think adding some energy generation to auto attack would make huge improvements and not disrupt balance. Essentially the only upkeep that you could say really grants any sort of value you for toggling it on and off quickly is the Mallyx elite and maybe Impossible Odds to get a quick stomp ,but for the most part upkeeps are designed to give you maximum benefit over a longer period of time. I see nothing wrong with being able to keep them up infinitely at the cost of not being able to really use any other utilities as that would be the trade off. Upkeep vs. Fire and Forget Utilities that should be the choice to make as a Rev.

Griffith.7238:

I think the best solution here is to remove the energy cost on weapon skills. As it stands right now you currently can’t do anything but auto attack with an upkeep skill running anyway.

But instead of talking about energy costs and things like aftercast on Upkeeps you want to remove energy from Weapons to make the Rev a Faceroll Warrior 2.0 with a simple rotation?

Upkeeps arent intened to be up for a long time – their use is to create a huge benefit for a short time period or a sigthly longer time if you dont use anything else beside AA

there is stuff where energy needs to be reduced (mostly utilities) but not removed (aside from healing skills – im ok if the energy is removed on them)
Rev has shorter CDs on its skills because of the energy usage the whole class plays around the energy management.

Loex.5104:

Griffith.7238:

I think the best solution here is to remove the energy cost on weapon skills. As it stands right now you currently can’t do anything but auto attack with an upkeep skill running anyway.

But instead of talking about energy costs and things like aftercast on Upkeeps you want to remove energy from Weapons to make the Rev a Faceroll Warrior 2.0 with a simple rotation?

Upkeeps arent intened to be up for a long time – their use is to create a huge benefit for a short time period or a sigthly longer time if you dont use anything else beside AA

there is stuff where energy needs to be reduced (mostly utilities) but not removed (aside from healing skills – im ok if the energy is removed on them)
Rev has shorter CDs on its skills because of the energy usage the whole class plays around the energy management.

The Revenant could never be as faceroll as a Warrior because at the end of the day the Warrior does not have to manage a resource at all. We would still need to manage energy yet we would actually have some of it to manage unlike now where we get to use 1 utility a fight if we still want to do some damage. "their use is to create a huge benefit for a short time period. " Oh really I was unaware that Vengeful Hammers provided a “huge” benefit over a short period of time.

There is still plenty of skill of needed to play a Rev without the weaponskills costing energy and having to micro manage that with weapon swaps and legend swaps. Just look at Sword 3 use it at the wrong time and you don’t land a single hit or get killed during the animation.

Oh and shorter cooldowns like what?! A Medi DPS Guard’s entire GS combo is on a shorter cd then Rev’s.

The very word UPKEEP destroys your logic if they weren’t meant to be used over a long period then they should of just called them “toggle on then immediately toggle back off” gg….

Some weapon skills really require energy cost or at least a longer cd, and I’d take energy cost all the time (so I can have them ready more often when I need them, trading some utility for that).

Kidel.2057:

Some weapon skills really require energy cost or at least a longer cd, and I’d take energy cost all the time (so I can have them ready more often when I need them, trading some utility for that).

That’s all fine and dandy ,but with energy regen/costs in it’s current state you aren’t going to have anything ready when you need it unless you spend most of your time just auto attacking.

Griffith.7238:

The Revenant could never be as faceroll as a Warrior because at the end of the day the Warrior does not have to manage a resource at all. We would still need to manage energy yet we would actually have some of it to manage unlike now where we get to use 1 utility a fight if we still want to do some damage.

so we’re just talking about numbers again … nothing but numbers and i dont know how you played but i was able to perform my DPS and still have energy to use utilities if i needed them

Dont forget you have your utils there all the time – and not like other classes all time use in X – Y Seconds

Griffith.7238:

“their use is to create a huge benefit for a short time period. " Oh really I was unaware that Vengeful Hammers provided a “huge” benefit over a short period of time.

don’t bring Jalis into that – we all know that the whole legend is not round atm. If VH would block projectiles or give protection or whatever we would have a huge benefit.

IO as well as Ventari Shield as well as Mallyx Elite ARE pretty strong and huge benefits – also keep in mind that they have no CD (ventari shield has – nobody knows why) and can be used on demand exactly when you need them and are not there for X seconds and are then on CD forever.

Griffith.7238:

Oh and shorter cooldowns like what?! A Medi DPS Guard’s entire GS combo is on a shorter cd then Rev’s.

4;10;15;20 vs 10:15:20:30 – even traited is your argument invalid. – and to be fair you should compare the same skill types (20s for a pull interrupt as well as 15 on a 2s block is just nice)

And skills like Duelist’s Preparation and Unrelenting Assault have animations that are long enough to regain the used energy.

Griffith.7238:

The very word UPKEEP destroys your logic if they weren’t meant to be used over a long period then they should of just called them “toggle on then immediately toggle back off” gg….

you can, if you want to – or you can learn the class and use IO in situations where you benefit the most. (Hammer 5 ; Sword 3; …)
jeez IO is haste on demand – you really think this is intended to be hold up forever while spamming your Weapon Rota??

Again we can talk about numbers – i dont see a reason why for example IO should have initial energy cost / and why the ventari shield should have kitten cd but its fact that the energy cost on weapons is needed as energy drain otherwise the whole mechanic would be stupid “hey i have all my stuff on demand and dont need to waste time in thinking when and what to use and im so bored that i now nuke out impossible odds”

Griffith.7238:

That’s all fine and dandy ,but with energy regen/costs in it’s current state you aren’t going to have anything ready when you need it unless you spend most of your time just auto attacking.

im not sure if we played the same class …

Griffith.7238:

Kidel.2057:

Some weapon skills really require energy cost or at least a longer cd, and I’d take energy cost all the time (so I can have them ready more often when I need them, trading some utility for that).

That’s all fine and dandy ,but with energy regen/costs in it’s current state you aren’t going to have anything ready when you need it unless you spend most of your time just auto attacking.

That’s not true, you just need to legendswap a lot.
And if we don’t take the bug into account, Jalis upkeep does almost the same damage (if not more) then Impossible Odds. So swapping legend is not a big deal, and it gives A LOT of energy right away.

Some skills need a reduced energy cost, it’s true, but energy cost on weaponskill is there so that you remember to legendswap. You have to do it, it’s the class mechanic, they want you to do it, otherwise why do you get 50 energy from it?

I don’t really see energy as a big issue. It’s an issue, just not as big as many say. “I can’t do skills” oh come on, of course you can. “If I use elite and healing I can’t use weaponskills” oh yes you can. Spam all the utility skills you can then legendswap. It’s not like you do less damage with a different legend. Every offensive upkeep is amazing.

Loex.5104:

Griffith.7238:

The Revenant could never be as faceroll as a Warrior because at the end of the day the Warrior does not have to manage a resource at all. We would still need to manage energy yet we would actually have some of it to manage unlike now where we get to use 1 utility a fight if we still want to do some damage.

so we’re just talking about numbers again … nothing but numbers and i dont know how you played but i was able to perform my DPS and still have energy to use utilities if i needed them

Dont forget you have your utils there all the time – and not like other classes all time use in X – Y Seconds

Griffith.7238:

“their use is to create a huge benefit for a short time period. " Oh really I was unaware that Vengeful Hammers provided a “huge” benefit over a short period of time.

don’t bring Jalis into that – we all know that the whole legend is not round atm. If VH would block projectiles or give protection or whatever we would have a huge benefit.

IO as well as Ventari Shield as well as Mallyx Elite ARE pretty strong and huge benefits – also keep in mind that they have no CD (ventari shield has – nobody knows why) and can be used on demand exactly when you need them and are not there for X seconds and are then on CD forever.

Griffith.7238:

Oh and shorter cooldowns like what?! A Medi DPS Guard’s entire GS combo is on a shorter cd then Rev’s.

4;10;15;20 vs 10:15:20:30 – even traited is your argument invalid. – and to be fair you should compare the same skill types (20s for a pull interrupt as well as 15 on a 2s block is just nice)

And skills like Duelist’s Preparation and Unrelenting Assault have animations that are long enough to regain the used energy.

Griffith.7238:

The very word UPKEEP destroys your logic if they weren’t meant to be used over a long period then they should of just called them “toggle on then immediately toggle back off” gg….

you can, if you want to – or you can learn the class and use IO in situations where you benefit the most. (Hammer 5 ; Sword 3; …)
jeez IO is haste on demand – you really think this is intended to be hold up forever while spamming your Weapon Rota??

Again we can talk about numbers – i dont see a reason why for example IO should have initial energy cost / and why the ventari shield should have kitten cd but its fact that the energy cost on weapons is needed as energy drain otherwise the whole mechanic would be stupid “hey i have all my stuff on demand and dont need to waste time in thinking when and what to use and im so bored that i now nuke out impossible odds”

Griffith.7238:

That’s all fine and dandy ,but with energy regen/costs in it’s current state you aren’t going to have anything ready when you need it unless you spend most of your time just auto attacking.

im not sure if we played the same class …

I was more referring to the abilities that do damage on the Guard’s GS aka Whirling Wrath and Symbol of Wrath both of which have lower cds then Rev Swords primary damage output abilities.

IO is the only Upkeep that I agree would be a little insane to have 100% uptime.

I don’t really know which aspect of the game you are referring to PvE or PvP ,but since you could literally cast Frigid Blitz and Unrelenting Assault and kill just about every non vet mob in Verdant Brink I figured it was clear that I wasn’t referring to PvE. Clearly you wouldn’t have to worry about running out of energy in a fight that doesn’t last but maybe 2 abilities.

I’m really not encountering energy problems.

Yeah I don’t have 100% uptime on stuff, but them I never expected to. I’m pretty sure that you are not supposed to.

Kidel.2057:

Griffith.7238:

Kidel.2057:

Some weapon skills really require energy cost or at least a longer cd, and I’d take energy cost all the time (so I can have them ready more often when I need them, trading some utility for that).

That’s all fine and dandy ,but with energy regen/costs in it’s current state you aren’t going to have anything ready when you need it unless you spend most of your time just auto attacking.

That’s not true, you just need to legendswap a lot.
And if we don’t take the bug into account, Jalis upkeep does almost the same damage (if not more) then Impossible Odds. So swapping legend is not a big deal, and it gives A LOT of energy right away.

Some skills need a reduced energy cost, it’s true, but energy cost on weaponskill is there so that you remember to legendswap. You have to do it, it’s the class mechanic, they want you to do it, otherwise why do you get 50 energy from it?

I don’t really see energy as a big issue. It’s an issue, just not as big as many say. “I can’t do skills” oh come on, of course you can. “If I use elite and healing I can’t use weaponskills” oh yes you can. Spam all the utility skills you can then legendswap. It’s not like you do less damage with a different legend. Every offensive upkeep is amazing.

If I am in a 1v1 fight with a condi based opponent in SPvP it would be counter beneficial for me to switch out of Mallyx in pretty much every way. While I do believe that the Legends compliment many of the Rev’s weapons they do not however compliment each other in pretty much anyway. Each Legend is geared towards a particular thing and meant to add versatility where it is needed. Versatility is not always needed sometimes I need to abilities in Shiro not the ones in Jalis so having to switch to regain energy does me no good if I needed the energy for say a stun break from Shiro.

if you’re low on energy you can’t use mallyx skills for quite some time anyway, so what’s the problem if you legendswap? If you swap to jalis you even have a condi cleanse and a powerful upkeep. And if you swap to Shiro you can jade wind right away.

The problem is the rate at which condi’s are reapplied. Legend swap is on a 5 sec cooldown and without access to resistance 5 sec is more then enough time to get overwhelmed by condi’s especially now have you seen the freaking burning tics these days. Most condi builds don’t work like power builds where you are limited to burst windows when your main power/powers comes off cd most condi builds are just constantly applying stuff to you with no relent.

Like I get where you guys are coming from ,but it just doesn’t matter you need things when you need them plain and simple. If I need Shiro for some mobility ,but I’m out of energy switching to Jalis gives me energy while taking away my access to mobility it does nothing for me. There are plenty of situations where Legend Swapping is huge ,but there are just as many situations where it is useless.

Every other class gets to use their utility the moment they need it without having to sacrifice damage why on earth should Revs be denied that luxury.

Every other class has cd on utility skills. We don’t.
You can’t compare the 2 mechanics but only the throughput, that I agree is a bit low on utility. Now the solution is lowering cost on some utility or on some weaponskills so you overall do more utility and less autoattack.

The fact that you don’t legend swap is your problem. If they make the came easy for you without legendswap, then people who already legendswap are going to be OP.

Kidel.2057:

Every other class has cd on utility skills. We don’t.
You can’t compare the 2 mechanics but only the throughput, that I agree is a bit low on utility. Now the solution is lowering cost on some utility or on some weaponskills so you overall do more utility and less autoattack.

The fact that you don’t legend swap is your problem. If they make the came easy for you without legendswap, then people who already legendswap are going to be OP.

First off just because we don’t have a countdown on our utility skills doesn’t mean they lack a cooldown there is still very much a downtime. You can’t just spam jade winds infinitely or any of our utilities for that matter. I’m also pretty sure I never said that I didn’t Legend swap just simply that spamming legend swap on cd is not the solution to the Revs energy problems.

I disagree with OP. Mostly because I dislike getting energy while swapping. It more or less FORCES player to swap every time you can to maximize benefit.

Rather than that I would like to have regen increased and/or ability costs reduced while removing energy on swap (currently 50%).

I don’t think they’re going to change the core mechanic at this point.

Griffith.7238:

I was more referring to the abilities that do damage on the Guard’s GS aka Whirling Wrath and Symbol of Wrath both of which have lower cds then Rev Swords primary damage output abilities.

IO is the only Upkeep that I agree would be a little insane to have 100% uptime.

I don’t really know which aspect of the game you are referring to PvE or PvP ,but since you could literally cast Frigid Blitz and Unrelenting Assault and kill just about every non vet mob in Verdant Brink I figured it was clear that I wasn’t referring to PvE. Clearly you wouldn’t have to worry about running out of energy in a fight that doesn’t last but maybe 2 abilities.

nah it doesnt work that way – you jcan’t just compare DPS stuff without seeing the utility effect. And a Symbol is not worth an 2s block imho – depends maybe on situation and gamemode

I Mainly talked about PvE but also in PvP you won’t run out of energy if you know your stuff and dont panic – your 1 is still your main dps thingy

In PvP it is definitively harder (as for every class mostly)as it has its own problems that result in a lack of Jalis and Mallyx imho – you dont have enough eaccess to evade stuff as well as protection or invis or a lot mobility while in combat and mallyx should be your anti-condi thing but isnt atm.

he has simply a little ag in stuff that saves his kitten while he is regenerating from his last attacks (like thieves Invis / Warriors mobility etc)

Crack idea, add F3 to toggle on/off energy costs for weapon skills, if you toggle it on they get buffs i.e. a direct 10% damage mod, better crit chance, etc.

Being more serious, removing the weaponskill energy costs is just enough, they already have cooldowns on them.

Adjusting some utily costs would be nice to Forced Engagement costing half your energy meaning you get locked in autoattacks and have no access to defenses for 2-3 seconds for taunt? no thank you it’s just worth it in some really specific situations it either needs to go down 25-30nergy cost or pulse protection/add ticks of damage or add something else for that much energy, Impossible Odds OP? yeah sure just for the 1 1/2 autoattack chain you can keep it up for, if upkeeps are gonna be that costly then make them cost effective, or again make them have an extra effect, Ventari has no utility asides healing and I find that pretty weak unless they have bosses that can hit for 21k instantly on PvE and most professions get better party protective support than plain heals with a delayed deliver thanks to having to activate the tablet, the list could go on, a lot has been said, there are some quality feedback threads out there, lets wait and see what devs have to say about all of it.

Kidel.2057:

I don’t think they’re going to change the core mechanic at this point.

I think you misunderstand what a beta is for. There are alot of people commenting that legend swapping for energy, energy regen and consumption currently is a problem. Anet wants this feedback to make it a fun and enjoyable class to play. If there is an inherent problem with a core mechanic then this is the time to point it out so things can be adjusted.

leftyboy.9358:

Kidel.2057:

I don’t think they’re going to change the core mechanic at this point.

I think you misunderstand what a beta is for. There are alot of people commenting that legend swapping for energy, energy regen and consumption currently is a problem. Anet wants this feedback to make it a fun and enjoyable class to play. If there is an inherent problem with a core mechanic then this is the time to point it out so things can be adjusted.

Let’s spread out some stuff
1) Energy management vs cost: that’s one of the issues and potentially the main issue of the class at the moment, the damage issue has partially been adressed but you can’t do much if your abilities are high risk and low to no reward to use, even with 10 utilities you end up using 1 or 2 skills out of each stance, each time you swap and that is if the circumstance arises, open world content can be cleared with staff 3, staff 5, axe 5 and sword AA and just the healing skills.
2) The Revenant has nothing of value to offer to a party: as in every other profession has better support AND dps options than Revenant has and I seriously doubt Glint will fix this, the skills and traits need adjustments to make them more valuale, Assassin’s Pressence is redundant with fire fields from eles, doing 2000-3000 extra damage as a whole party just compensates for the loss of DPS of having a revenant in a party (that’s in speedclear/optimal min maxing group conditions), Healing in Ventari? that can be done with Water fields, Revenant Grants no protective boons or conditions that help with damage mitigation we have access to weakness and blind in decent ammounts though but we really need other ways to support party damage management, both defensive and offensively.
3) The profession is actually pretty interesting and fun to play as is IMO the game isn’t difficult enough to justify putting it on a better place, we the players who like the theme and playstyle that Revenant has brought are bent on trying to put it on par with the other professions, that’s it, specially because the weaker overall spot a profession is found the harder it’ll be to fit into the “meta” category and the harder it’ll be to be accepted on parties and that’s a fact, take a look at what happened to Necro the last 2 years.
4) Boosting the damage modifiers was a decent workup fix, but still Revenant is in the lowest tier of damage if you’re gonna do that then it’d better have loads of usefull party group support to make up for that, the profession has not access to that atm, people have compared Elementalist and Engineer to Revenant because of the access to different skillsets at 1 button tap, if we were to compare them Revenant is leagues and leagues away from them, both those professions are the top 2 on DPS Engineer is the top CDPS profession atm, they have smoke, fire and water fields on demand, at least 2 blast finisher on demand and can do much better party support that pretty much any other class.

Tl;DR The class is fun and interesting to play even if it isn’t in the best state, it has the same issues Necromancer had for the past 2 years plus it has a lot of energy cost vs efficiency of play issues mostly because the utility skills have high costs and low benefits on use.

leftyboy.9358:

Kidel.2057:

I don’t think they’re going to change the core mechanic at this point.

I think you misunderstand what a beta is for. There are alot of people commenting that legend swapping for energy, energy regen and consumption currently is a problem. Anet wants this feedback to make it a fun and enjoyable class to play. If there is an inherent problem with a core mechanic then this is the time to point it out so things can be adjusted.

I think you misunderstood what beta is for. They don’t take orders from us. They don’t feed the QQ.
Feedback is used to help them decide on what they’re already discussing internally.

If they see energy is an issue for players, they’re just going to lower some energy cost, not get rid of the main mechanic.
They listen to “energy is an issue”, not “make so that a dragon comes from the sky and refills your energy every 3 seconds” (seriously after the last beta people suggested mist conjured weapons on legendswap…).

They’re going to make the machanic work, not just redo everything from scratch.
The whole point of the revenant is legendswap, if you don’t like it there are 8 other classes with customizable skills, so no legendswap, no 10 legend skills and so no energy cost. It’s a chain.

My suggestion: Remove the energy cost from the weapon skills.

Teutos.8620:

My suggestion: Remove the energy cost from the weapon skills.

I think this would be the easiest fix to implement and would bring the class up quite a bit from where it is now. With weaponskills costing no energy you are going to get off like 1-2 utilities before burning through energy forcing a swap where you can then burn 1-2 more before swapping again. This doesn’t address the abysmal state that most of the abilities are in ,but it will at the very least allow us to use them at a decent rate. This would also allow us to do more then just auto attack during Upkeeps (which I’m sure most of us agree at this point are quite weak). This change doesn’t ruin the classes individuality as some may think (I’m looking at you Kidel). You will still be forced to pay attention to your energy and use your utilities wisely as well as legend swap practically on cooldown. This change will however give us a little extra energy to work with so that maybe we can use utilities when we need them instead of having to swap just to gain energy while at the same time baring access to the utility we wanted to use for 5 sec.

Griffith.7238:

Teutos.8620:

My suggestion: Remove the energy cost from the weapon skills.

This change doesn’t ruin the classes individuality as some may think

it would.

The only thing you would think about is when you stop your IO to keep enough energy to maybe evade backwards while you’ll spam your rotation.
WIthout the constant energy sink of the weaponskills our energy would regenerate so kitten fast the utils HAVE to get more expensive and nothing would change at all.

i mean without any cost changes it would be : "yay … 5 Phase Traversal in a row if i dont use IO "… great balance.

Talk about reducing upkeep Costs or the most important thing imho: about getting rid of the initial energy cost when activation an upkeep as well as the cooldown on Enable and Disable and maybe the possibility to actively REGAIN Energy aside from Legendswap

for example:
Sword 4 could regenerate energy if it didnt block anything
sword 3 if all 7 hits hit
hammer 4 on every blocked projectile
Hammer 2 for every hit foe beneath max range
…

jut be more creative than simply “remove that stuff” – if you want to adress energy problems adress them at their base → costs too high + energy gain too low —> there are many cool ways to adress that – dont choose the most stupid one.

Revenant is the only heavy class with a more complex gameplay … and so shall it be

If legend swap is going to be a major focus of the class and up keeping energy then the cool down should be lowered on swap in combat. An elementalist has twice as many attunements to switch to make up for the cool downs. An engineer has no cool down on kit swaps.

Traits could be a way of increasing energy. Each trait line could have an energy gain option.

Example. Devastation trait – sword and axe skills cost less energy

lowering the cd on legendswap is not easy, since you would increase the skill throughput of the elites. I’m not saying I’m against it.

Loex.5104:

i mean without any cost changes it would be : "yay … 5 Phase Traversal in a row if i dont use IO "… great balance.

This.

With 100 energy on swap or ooc things would go crazy. I mean, 2 jade winds in a row, lol

To fix that they would have to increase the energy cost on skills, so we would end up nerfed (since our max energy is still 100, and if they increase it then it’s just the same as before but with bigger numbers).

Removing cd from weaponskills is bad too, because people would just stop using the class mechanic.

The easiest and probably the best thing to do is to leave the mechanics untouched and just lower some energy costs.
Overall our throughput will increase a lot, making us on par with other classes, still avoiding skillspam and still having legendswap useful for energy sustain.

Kidel.2057:

lowering the cd on legendswap is not easy, since you would increase the skill throughput of the elites. I’m not saying I’m against it.

I’d add cool down to elites

uhohhotdog.3598:

Kidel.2057:

lowering the cd on legendswap is not easy, since you would increase the skill throughput of the elites. I’m not saying I’m against it.

I’d add cool down to elites

sure, a nerf is what we need. -_-

Kidel.2057:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Kidel.2057:

lowering the cd on legendswap is not easy, since you would increase the skill throughput of the elites. I’m not saying I’m against it.

I’d add cool down to elites

sure, a nerf is what we need. -_-

I rarely used elites when I was playing because I was always low on energy. Unyielding anguish is too useful.

Actually it wouldn’t even be a nerf if you make the cool down 10 seconds because that’s the cool down on legendaries now. Or something like that. Just enough to prevent spam.

Im sorry to break it for you guys, but energy is almost fine in current state is fine. Youre not supposed to spam everything off cd. The moment where you remove weapon energy you will be able to spam utility skills like riposting shadows and jade winds like no tomorrow which will lead to some serious cd and balance issues there. Weapon skills also at this point will get up espesially after added weapon swap. If you cant manage energy properly, just stop playing it. Maybe that class inst for you. Revenant is supposed to be a complex class like engi and ele.

skowcia.8257:

Energy – main problem of revenant. Starting with 50% doesnt give us a lot of tools, we have to decide whenever we go offensive or defensive. 50 energy at start limit us too much. If we use it in a defensive way (and even then we still dont have enough energy in many cases) to counter burst we wont have energy to use our burst skills. If we use it in a offensive way we will end up being defendless. In both cases we ending up as easy kill for anyone that knows what hes doing. Switching between stances ooc will get cd, at this point revenant should be allowed to start up with 100 energy. Some people do not like that fact that energy is builded up completely passively, but i think its fine.

Moreover, idea behind legend swapping and getting up to 50% was good, but that thing is also too punishing. Due to double heal skill often it happen that our energy we been spending time to build up end being wasted as we have to swap just so we can use heal skill and survive. That is not a good desing. We should keep our energy on legend swap if energy on it own was above 50%. This way we wont be forced to start fight with certain legend, and revenant as a whole should also get a bit more depth in skill celling. A builded up energy should not be lost. We actually should be rewarded for smart plays.

Some people say that utility and wep skills skills consume too much energy – some of them do, but not all of them. I personally believe that overall cost utility skills in many cases is balanced well, the skills howered needs to end up a lil stronger. People mostly complains about forced engagement being useless – thats not true at all. But thats for another post. Energy on healing skills should be removed and actually at some point i think that it should not olny be removed, but we should gain a small amount of energy for using them. What i can agree on are costs on weapon skills – energy on them should be 10 max.

Alternative method would be to get rid of gaining energy on legend swap like thief for weapons and instead reduce energy cost on skills across the board.

Loex.5104:

The only thing you would think about is when you stop your IO to keep enough energy to maybe evade backwards while you’ll spam your rotation.
WIthout the constant energy sink of the weaponskills our energy would regenerate so kitten fast the utils HAVE to get more expensive and nothing would change at all.

i mean without any cost changes it would be : "yay … 5 Phase Traversal in a row if i dont use IO "… great balance.

Revenant is the only heavy class with a more complex gameplay … and so shall it be

It would change the fact we can’t use weapon skills while at 0 energy and still be limited in our utility uses.

5 Phase traversal in a row means you sat on your energy for 10 seconds using only weapon skills. If an ennemy sees you keeping energy for a long time, he can easyly see what’s coming as he knows what is at you disposal.
A Shiro Rev not using IO? He is already close to me so no PT? he can keep his energy for only 2 things: emergency retreat or Jade winds (a long cast AOE with a big Green tell)
If you can’t see that, then you could be killed even by a Basilisk venom thief using heart seeker.
Plus if Revenant can keep such an insane pressure that he needs only weapon skills and no utility to kill an opponent, maybe it’s the weapon skill that must be changed

skowcia.8257:

Im sorry to break it for you guys, but energy is almost fine in current state is fine. Youre not supposed to spam everything off cd. The moment where you remove weapon energy you will be able to spam utility skills like riposting shadows and jade winds like no tomorrow which will lead to some serious cd and balance issues there. Weapon skills also at this point will get up espesially after added weapon swap. If you cant manage energy properly, just stop playing it. Maybe that class inst for you. Revenant is supposed to be a complex class like engi and ele.

Again, the energy gain speed and decay speed, as much as utility energy costs can be tweaked.
Personnaly, i don’t feel comfortable with energy on weapons because it’s too much like Thief initiative wich i’d rather let to thieves. Being able to use many times the same utility is already different enough for me.

The problem is, Only Roy can take a decision about that because it is him wich can decide where he wants the revenant to be.

I’m not against keeping energy on weapons, maybe some tweaks could do the trick and i’d be fine with it, i’m just giving other suggestions and why i defend them.

I love the exaggerated 5 Phase Traversals and 2 Jade Winds in row you guys really pull this kitten out of your kitten haha. It’s possible to do that now removing energy from weapon skills isn’t going to make it more possible. Rev’s as they are now can’t survive long enough without using a utility to pool 100 energy unless they are being completely ignored in which case the Rev in its current state could do these things just as easily. You guys crack me up.

Griffith.7238:

I love the exaggerated 5 Phase Traversals and 2 Jade Winds in row you guys really pull this kitten out of your kitten haha. It’s possible to do that now removing energy from weapon skills isn’t going to make it more possible. Rev’s as they are now can’t survive long enough without using a utility to pool 100 energy unless they are being completely ignored in which case the Rev in its current state could do these things just as easily. You guys crack me up.

… you don’t see the difference between nuking the kitten out of your utillities and beeing unable to do anything after that and nuking the kitten out of your utillities and beeing still able to run your whole rotation without thinking 1 second about it?

so actually you want a warrior with 2 util bars and no cooldown on utils ..

Griffith.7238:

Rev’s as they are now can’t survive long enough without using a utility to pool 100

1) YOU maybe can’t survive without spamming utils
2) if you feel that way it must be the fault of the energy cost on weapons …. sure this has NOTHING to do with maybe a lack of combat buffs like protection and vigor or maybe a lack of ways to regain some energy for doing something (e.g. on Block or dodge)

Griffith.7238:

You guys crack me up.

thanks

uhohhotdog.3598:

Kidel.2057:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Kidel.2057:

lowering the cd on legendswap is not easy, since you would increase the skill throughput of the elites. I’m not saying I’m against it.

I’d add cool down to elites

sure, a nerf is what we need. -_-

I rarely used elites when I was playing because I was always low on energy. Unyielding anguish is too useful.

The fact that you didn’t use them doesn’t mean we all didn’t. A nerf is a nerf.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Actually it wouldn’t even be a nerf if you make the cool down 10 seconds because that’s the cool down on legendaries now. Or something like that. Just enough to prevent spam.

Meaning you can’t build up energy to spam 2 in a row. Still a nerf.
The whole point of having energy management is so that we have less cd to worry about.

Loex.5104:

Griffith.7238:

I love the exaggerated 5 Phase Traversals and 2 Jade Winds in row you guys really pull this kitten out of your kitten haha. It’s possible to do that now removing energy from weapon skills isn’t going to make it more possible. Rev’s as they are now can’t survive long enough without using a utility to pool 100 energy unless they are being completely ignored in which case the Rev in its current state could do these things just as easily. You guys crack me up.

… you don’t see the difference between nuking the kitten out of your utillities and beeing unable to do anything after that and nuking the kitten out of your utillities and beeing still able to run your whole rotation without thinking 1 second about it?

so actually you want a warrior with 2 util bars and no cooldown on utils ..

Just ignore him. It’s pointless at this point, he doesn’t understand.

Mournilg.4870:

It would change the fact we can’t use weapon skills while at 0 energy and still be limited in our utility uses.

But you just need to legendswap to use weaponskills again, and it’s instant.
Remove cost on ws and there is no need to legendswap, that’s the point.
And if your legendswap is on cd and you used all your energy it means you managed poorly or you spammed a lot.

Mournilg.4870:

5 Phase traversal in a row means you sat on your energy for 10 seconds using only weapon skills. If an ennemy sees you keeping energy for a long time, he can easyly see what’s coming as he knows what is at you disposal.

Dude, he was replying to Griffith who wants 100 energy (ooc or on swap, can’t remember). You don’t need to build up for that, and that’s why it’s wrong.

Loex.5104:

Griffith.7238:

I love the exaggerated 5 Phase Traversals and 2 Jade Winds in row you guys really pull this kitten out of your kitten haha. It’s possible to do that now removing energy from weapon skills isn’t going to make it more possible. Rev’s as they are now can’t survive long enough without using a utility to pool 100 energy unless they are being completely ignored in which case the Rev in its current state could do these things just as easily. You guys crack me up.

… you don’t see the difference between nuking the kitten out of your utillities and beeing unable to do anything after that and nuking the kitten out of your utillities and beeing still able to run your whole rotation without thinking 1 second about it?

so actually you want a warrior with 2 util bars and no cooldown on utils ..

No what I want is a class that is afforded the same luxury as every other class in GW2. I don’t want to have to choose between damage and utility because no one else has to. In case you weren’t aware every single Rev ability has a built in cooldown ….. its called E N E R G Y. "Look guys there is no countdown on this ability it mean I can use it infinitely!!!! ". What a joke.

But no class has the same luxury of having 10 utility skills with no cooldown.

Loex is right, you want a class like warrior but with 10 utility skills and no cd.
Sorry, you can’t have both. If you want all those skills and with no cd you need to accept energy management and less customization.

If you’re unable to manage energy just don’t play Revenant (or maybe learn).
Since many players are ok with Revenant’s current mechanic, probably the problem is the way you play.

Shiro/Jalis. Want damage? You have 3 dps oriented utility skills (1 on Jalis, 2 on Shiro). Want survivability? You have 4 survivability oriented skills (2 on Shiro, 2 on Jalis). 7 utility skills you can adjust to all the situations, of course you have to make a choice, they can’t allow you to spam all of them

If energy is so easy to manage that you can camp a legend without swapping then it means that you have 10 utility skills (double compared to other classes) and you’re NOT paying any drawback for tham.