Guild Wars 2

Longest text ever, if you are felling lazy, go watch some youtube videos instead (don’t say I didn’t warn you)

After reading a threat about a guy complaining that Rev has no access to reflect I just first laugh, but then I though… what if this guy is not trolling?

So this is my story on a Rev that is not a “80 tome of knowledge” but instead a rev that played from lvl 1 to 80 killing mobs and doing story and events (as I always do with my characters)

I maxed herald few weeks ago, but I have the same impression as I had on lvl 9 when I instakilled a centaur (lvl 9 also) with a single UA.

“Isn’t this too much?”

While I played my Rev on pve leveling normal content I realy felt like godmode…

While exploring, shadowstepping from mob to mob using shiro shadowstep on such a low cd felt godlike alone, aside from being able to kill (or take 80-90% of the health) of any “not champion” mob with a single sword 3 key during all early and mid phases of my leveling.

Then I leveled till 80, played some HoT content, got full elite spec, etc…

But still keep this opnion.

Don’t you guys fell the same?

Or maybe you prefer to hide it so that your new character continue to fell like Batman? Because idk I realy like my herald, invested a lot on her style also, but I wish my other classes weren’t so much weaker than her.

Think about the things that Rev have at their disposal, and if you won’t agree with me, say why is that, I hope I won’t need to go into details and numbers because that would just be stupid, you guys play Rev and don’t need to dwell on denial, right?

I have the strongest (by kitten far) single target dmg of all classes I’ve played… with assassin/berzerker split I get 92% critical chance while on fury (could get higher or just more power if wanted, but I like crits). the fury on heal trait gives you enough time with Imp Ods to realy hurt something or most of times kill it. (specialy with the dmg from shiro heal)

I have a strong aoe, unfortunaly i’m not much of an aoe type of player, but while leveling (especialy story mode) I faced a lot of content when the aoe dmg was needed, I was using only hammer at first and it was already strong, but “okish” strong.

But when I started spamming Mallyx jump on mob groups, oh boy… that spell is just insane (Why does it hit that much on power build? oO), Well, for me it trivialized all “huge invasion of mobs!!” content.

I ll give a point to “it is balanced” team now, because I felt that Ventari was indeed very weak on solo play, felt like I absolutely needed his traitline to be a viable legend, and jalis seemed so better on increasing survivability without demading that I sacrifice one spec (on earlier levels with only 1-2 spec, ventari felt unplayable)

But then again, if traited (no sure of that) would not be op that the same class that I play so offensively can build celestial and be a very strong group healer ONLY when needed just by changing a legend? No? Realy? Ok, well realy though it was. My bad.

Imo other classes seem to have 2-3 ways of doing the same thing, just different methods, while rev actualy does 2-3 different things, while beeing extremely good on each if traited (only one trait line) for it.

My mesmer, for example, If I want sustain and cleanse, I would have to build fully arround it to and use mantras, including 2 grand traits on different specs so thats 2 specs… well if I want cond build I must have illusion, if not I already lost depcetive evasion so power shatter will be a lot harder to play.

To get one thing, you have to sacrifice a lot for it…

With my thief the same happens but even worst… thief has to choose only 1 “attack pattern” (or “engage strategy” if pvp/wvw) and build everything else, traits, runes, sigil and utility spells around it…

See the difference?

Back to Rev.

About Jalis, he is not op imo… he is fair, the problem is he beeing on the same class that stacks so much might and 40% fury that always, and group heals, and outruns anyone on the whole game… (maybe beside SB DD, that only moves sightly better than rev, while rev have all other things on the game).

And about Herald… well… just too much of sinergy with any other legend like it makes the Rev better than anyone on that chosen role that the first legend focus…

My conclusions are:

Traits are too forgiving… everything you spec will be ok and will do just fine assuming you don’t go like “salvation/retribution” mallyx/shiro.

Too few weapon options… especialy when you consider the only ranged weapon is hammer. and power>sword, cond>mace… so, unless we are going hybrid we don’t have MH option at all.

OH weapons are only 2, and both are not interesting… OH is, ok another block and this very strange skill that I may use for interrupts maybe? when you need your energy for imp ods, engaging and dodgin+breaking stun you are probabily not doing strange back teleports with pulls. (suggestion, make it a 2 chain spell, one shadowsteps back, the other one pulls, that will make it a nice disengage spell with option of reingage with interrupt)

Axe… the first spell is realy redundant with phase transversal… and it is a power one, not so good for cond, while the second is cond that combos well with mace build but sort of lame on power build… Idk what suggest here realy…

Thats it… hope this will be usefull for some dev or even you guys complainning about not having reflect (lol, I always laugh at that)

Revenant is no different. The most popular build sacrifices condition cleanse. If you want condition cleanse you give up quickness and mobility. If you want to play ventari, your entire setup is liable to change.

Revenant can do a lot of things, but they can’t do them all at the same time.

Kaliny.8265:

I maxed herald few weeks ago, but I have the same impression as I had on lvl 9 when I instakilled a centaur (lvl 9 also) with a single UA.

“Isn’t this too much?”

How is this different from insta killing a mob with Rapid Fire from 1500 ft with my Ranger? A level 9 mob will be one-shotted by just about any class so your comments/viewpoint feels biased.

Rev feels strong to me but it also has weak points and is still unfinished. Lets finish the class to see how it performs as a whole before we start talking about nerfing the strong points of the profession now.

Edit: Not to say that the class could not use a few more balance passes but nothing about it at the moment is brokenly OP to me.

I think the poster is the troll. Wonder why so mnay saying revs are OP? Ive played all new elite class and I always find it all balanced beside warrior. Rev was not hard to kill, pve Revs are godlike? Lol so you soloed dungeons and field bosses then? Now you say we hide it but I say there is nothing to hide. How long are you gonna keep fooling around .with your weak argument?

Rev op? We’ve to be playing diferent games.

Rev shield plus heal, don’t attack it, it’s a dead rev.

Rev sword, just wait for his #3, then dodge/don’t eat the damage. Dead rev.

Rev without energy. Dead rev.

Ugh… I din’t fear revs tbh, they really do a good DMG, but they are weak to an eficient guy that knows how to avoid damage. Sorry for you Izghostxl if you don’t know how to do it.

No, i`m not trolling at all.

And I`m not saying “Rev is perfect and his build has no counter and everything you try will fail because is op.” That would be just silly.

I played from 0 to 80, and IMO felt godlike, also stated WHY that felt this way…. whats the problem with that?

I should keep quiet? It is my experience and I felt this way, we can discuss it of course, or you can not discuss it if you want. No problem on either.

Also i`m NOT suggesting any way of nerfing it, i`m just doing my part, that is providing sincere feedback on my experience.

Now about personal answers.

Misguided, thanks for your opinion.

You are right about most popular build not having cond cleanse, but glinth heal spells heals from cond ticks, if you are using a cond build (like I do most of the time) the heal can reset the fight turnning 3 secs of your cond burst into healing negleting most of your dmg.

While leveling sometimes normaly on tyria I remember a episode on story mode when I had to kill recently turned undead Apatia on the top of a tower. On this specifc instance I learned that spamming (not stupidly of course) pain absortion could negate all my troubles with cond dmg without having Jalis heal to cleanse them.

‘’This is not reliable for spvp!’’ Hmm not realy talking about that. Pvp is just a part of the game (and not the primary focus of it either).

Talking about my experience on how the class was godlike while leveling, and how those conclusions on the class are each day proved (even today) while I roam on wvw.

Leodon, thanks for your answer. Idk if it fells different from killing a mob with rapid fire from 1500ft with a ranger. I’ve never touched a ranger would be lie if I pointed any unbased difference between those two.

Maybe you missundestanded what I said?

I`m not talking about my lvl 80 herald on queensdale ‘’lvl capped to lvl 9’’ oneshotting something… i`m talking about my rev while still on lvl 9, with only the normal starter and first instance gear being able to oneshot something of its same level.

And no, or course not lvl 9 mobs do not get oneshooted by just about any classes on those phases of stating the game.

Why would you say something like that? If you realy think this is a fact, please test it. You will notice realy clearly this not the case at all.

Also I got though the whole scaling of my leveling experience, but you just pointed the first impression I had when I oneshooted a mob. Well… if you read carefully you will noticed I didn`t based my opinion on that, just my inicial impression that got confirmed by playthough as revenant.

Revenant is unfinished? Could you please link the thread where you got this info? I realy didn`t know that, so if you could be kind and point me a Dev saying that Rev is still on development phase I will remake this topic considering this.

Even so, if it is still unfinished, maybe thats what they need to finish, constructive feedback, as I`m providing from my gameplay experience, and not about tournaments but how It fells to play it from 0-80 and personaly I think this is more important than tournament balance issues. (normal players are more numerous and should be the company focus imo)

Lxghostxl, thanks for you answer, even beeing this sort of answer I will still consider it.

No, as I said not trolling.

“I don`t know why so many people says revs are OP?” Yeah, but no… you do know very well because everyone knows what is the reason people think it is op.

It is because rev can do more thing than other classes, and do then well and on some cases better than classes that can only do one thing.

This isn`t hard to get, it is very understandable and I think any rev would know this.

Seemed more of a random rant than something that you do actualy considered and formed your opinion.

You could dissagre with it tho.

I didn`t said pve Revs are godlike, I said, from my experiences, it felt that way.

Well to be fair, i didn`t soloed dungeons or field bosses (you are refering to event champion mobs? if so, yeah I actualy did solo some, but did this on other classes too)

Those are your requeriments for something to fell godlike on pve 1-80 content? Well, maybe you should do your thread about your experiences… than you could use words like ’’godlike’’ with your personal take on then.

I already told on the topic why I felt this way, how I jumped on the middle of invasion of mobs content on story… on claw island I felt like risen were there only for mallyx amusement.

‘’how long you will keep fooling around with your weak argument’’

Well sorry but can`t provide you a precise timespan right now, I don`t know how long I will keep going on my very extensively explained feedback on my experiences against your fallacy bombardment. But probabily not long.

Asher, thanks for you answer. But, did you read the thread?

I somewhat agreed with what you just said, at least to a part of it.

Not going about Rev very good dueling potential, not this that maked it fell op imo.

Is more about how much different things a Rev can do and how much it exceel or at least is very good contestant with the more especialized class that can only do one of those things.

Please take your time to read the thread before answering or just skip it if felling lazy, as I also said on thread.

lxghostxl.5097:

Wonder why so mnay saying revs are OP?

Because we… are?

Hammer damage is ridiculously OP, to name one thing I noticed:D

I stopped reading when you said your amesmer, why the Mesmer communite always focus on outr class and not there

Mesmers complaining about OPness? Cool story bro…

I think you’re wrong.

You’re saying to sustain/condition cleanse on Mesmer that you need 2 specs, you don’t you only at most need to go inspiration, use the healing and cleanse mantra and you have 6 AoE condi cleanses for 12 conditions about every 20s.

If you’re picking DE as a Mesmer in PvE you’re not being very optimal for anything that isn’t trash and they will die to a simple 1 clone MW with mirror blade or iLeap MW.

As for UA it’s good on a single target, terrible on multiple foes but you don’t talk about the rest of the options. They’re all pretty poor in direct damage but sword auto. Let’s make a genuine comparison, ever used whirling wrath as a guard? Hundred blades? Axe on warrior? Lava font, rapid fire, blunderbuss, grenade kit, thief C&D BS? All of those feel god mode on non elites.

Don’t get me wrong, revenant is strong but you’re cherry picking the few strong aspects and making poor comparisons to other classes.

Reading your replies to his valid argument(coming from someone who’s played Thief since GW2 Beta, Its OP as kitten), I’m having flashbacks to 30K crit Thieves saying “No, its totally balanced! I can only do the attack against you once! you should be able to survive that np!”

Balancing the revenant based on low level PvE? To the poster above, I mained thief before and I remember that one shot build, I yet have to one shot wut the UA, unless I’m playing wrong, your arguement is flawed at that best. Most classes can one shot things with ease at low levels, Rangers can, you can still get 15k crits with longbow 1,1500 range (possibly more)in WvW, Pistolwhip, this is like me saying the Chrono is completely broken, no it is strong and brings a lot to the party and has great DPS but OP.

Elite specializations are meant to feel strong, Heck Druids have hit heals of 25 k on other people and there is a vid with a berserker dishing out some nasty DPS, Revs have thier sword auto attack for DPS, teefs have a nice spammable evade with a stun on it to boot and now with 3 dodges, Chronomancers good forbid! They can MOA, TWICE and have thier skills recharge so quick now, or god forbid the Dragon hunter and is godlike traps

Your only problem is that you are basing this off 1-80 and well elite specializations are meant to feel strong at what they do

However your argument does bring up some good points, but PvE in general is weak besides the more challenging content

Kaliny.8265:

Revenant is unfinished? Could you please link the thread where you got this info? I realy didn`t know that, so if you could be kind and point me a Dev saying that Rev is still on development phase I will remake this topic considering this.

I was referring to missing underwater skills and condi not being up to par to power builds.

I did not play Rev much during the betas but Mallyx condi was originally designed to work in a different way from the current iteration. (I believe it was some sort of condition transfer type of playstyle.) From what I heard, Roy decided the playstyle was not conducive to a fun grouping experience and scrapped the original implementation but did not rework the traits to make sense with the new system (current iteration) he put in place. This plus the fact we have no second condi weapon set makes condi Rev feel lacking and unfinished compared to power builds.

I agree with a lot that was said in this thread. Part of Revenant being so strong and streamlined is because it was made recently, with the Devs years of experience and knowledge of the current game. I believe that, if they had a chance to do some things over, a few of our game classes would be similarly streamlined and altered to suit the current game.

It’s also a very new class, and it’s being worked on alongside the release of raids, Wintersday, and a lot of other content.

I would give it some time and try to enjoy the class as it is while providing constructive feedback as you go. If you don’t like it, then don’t play it.,

It’s really about that simple.

Mercurias.1826:

I agree with a lot that was said in this thread. Part of Revenant being so strong and streamlined is because it was made recently, with the Devs years of experience and knowledge of the current game. I believe that, if they had a chance to do some things over, a few of our game classes would be similarly streamlined and altered to suit the current game.

It’s also a very new class, and it’s being worked on alongside the release of raids, Wintersday, and a lot of other content.

I would give it some time and try to enjoy the class as it is while providing constructive feedback as you go. If you don’t like it, then don’t play it.,

It’s really about that simple.

My thoughts exactly.

Actually skimmed through that wall of text.

Can barely agree to anything.

Most classes feel overpowered now in 1-80 due to the new trait system. That has NOTHING to do with revenant.

You’re example of other classes giving up everything for condi cleanse or other specialisation is backwards. On the contrary, the revenant is giving up a lot with his legends, every other class ingame can customize a lot better thanks to hand picked utilities. Not sure where you were going with this.

Revenant(Herald) is at this point in time an unfinished class with a lot of bugs that performs decently due to:
- high synergy within itsself
- easy upkeep of essential damage boons
- a unique 50% boon duration mechnic
- a LOT of evade, blocks and damage ignores
- superior mobility
- having a very low skill cap to perform good (just stay in glint and autoattack. you’ll do more damage than any comparable other class) while being not to complex compared to classes like Engi, Mes, Thief or Ele

I too mained mesmer pre HoT (and Guardian). Judging revenant from the state that mesmer are in right now is a bit silly (not saying mes are op, but they are in a VERY good spot and very desirable at the moment for group content).

If you look at some of the other classes (for example mesmer) you’ll notice not many (besides warrior) have multiple weapons for the same role. Hammer may be our only ranged option, but it sure beats out a lot of other ranged weapons on other classes.

Traits I can agree with. But that is more due to most powerful stuff being baseline for revenant (which again is an inherent benefit) not needing specific traits (though some traits are clearly superior to others). While other classes define themselves/their build over the traits they pick. This has more to do with the difficulty of balancing revenant in a system that is clearly designed for allowing players to pick and chose utilities.

I also leveled my Rev from 1-80 and have unlocked about 3/4 of Herald. I don’t feel quite the same as you, particularly when comparing the rev to other professions. My baseline is how well I can solo content in HoT. I’ve taken each of my lvl 80’s through VB, and some into the next map. Here’s my personal opinion of how rev ranks in my list:

1: Ranger – Hands down no contest for me. Ranger (particularly bow ranger) is simply the easiest solo class, for any area, including HoT. The pet is the main reason. The pet helps both with aggro management, condi-management, and dps, and is simply too big an advantage when dealing with hard creatures. Dps from range also keeps your main char out of most trouble. It’s a boring way to play sometimes and a bit of a one-trick pony, but that pony rides over everything with ease.

2: Necro – very, very close second to Ranger. Necro is a powerhouse, particularly Reaper. Necro can also be speced for pets, but I always run it in melee bouncing between staff and two-hander sword. Necro’s biggest advantage is powerful condi management, which is a huge advantage in HoT. Necro also has amazing aoe and single target dps, unlike most professions which have to focus on one or the other. Just a great profession all-around.

For me, the rest are much, MUCH farther down the chain in terms of ease of soloing content in HoT. The first two can solo content and some champions without breaking a sweat. These others I occassionaly need help or a group to tackle the same content.

3: Revenant – Their range attacks are slow and pretty much suck compared to ranger. But they have some good movement, and the ability to burst melee dps like nobodys buisness with shiro. They are also able to switch back and forth from a dps mode to a tank mode within a fight, which gives good versatility and survivability. Revs biggest disadvantage though is no good condi cleanse, which matters a lot in HoT.

4: Mesmer – Clones, Phantasms, Confusion, these are awesome when dealing with tough mobs in HoT. It’s takes the pressure off tremendously to have some illusions out. Unfortunately they don’t have a lot of condi-cleanse either, and I find my mesmer damage overall is too slow. I found the chronomancer not as survivable as the rev or necro, and against large groups the mesmer gets in trouble fast. The staff condi-build I’ve found the most success with.

5: Guardian and Warrior – I put both of these at the same level. I found both to be pretty limited in that you really have to pick up front if you are going to be more dps or tanky, and can’t really switch after that even with skills, unlike the rev, which can bounce back and forth mid-fight using the same gear and skills. Both have the option to go range (kind weird in my opinion – but hey it works). Berserker and Dragon hunter are both pretty lackluster in my opinion though. I struggled with both of them however.

6: Thief – For me thief requires far too much positional awareness meta-gameplay. Unlike necro or rev, thief needs to constantly be in motion and positioning correctly to make the most of things. It’s a lot of overhead. Its fun, but can get annoying. They are also far too fragile. I spent more time running and avoiding fights rather than taking them on cause I could like with the necro or ranger, or even rev.

Elementalist, Engineer – Only two professions I have not fully leveled to 80. Both are at 50ish. Probably because both are a pain in the kitten and require so much micro-management to be effective. I’ve heard they do good in HoT, but frankly I have my doubts just playing to mid-level in the base game.

I thought Rev was great from 0-80 (borderline OP) and I couldn’t understand why they kept saying Rev sucked without Herald. Then I got Herald and everything became clear. Perma fury, perma 15 might, wow, and people complain about warrior’s passive abilities.

While you may say that UA’s damage is nuts and what not, i’ll openly admit that it isn’t my main source or even anywhere close to my main source of damage on Revenant. Your auto attack is your friend and in terms of PvE i find that i personally use UA as a defensive ability rather then a damaging ability. A mass majority of my damage comes from flat out auto attacks. Heck, i use Elmental Blast far more often then UA for damage. I almost feel like if you are using UA as your main damaging skill, you are kinda doing it wrong but thats just my opinion. Sure, i’ve seen 25k damage from UA but i see 5 to 6k from my auto attacks and it takes roughly the same amount of time to stack up 25k damage with auto attacks as it takes to use UA and they don’t cost energy. I even use Temporal Rift more often then UA simply because it and Chaotic Release can break bar bosses pretty easily. I really just look at UA as a defensive ability more then an offensive ability and would be completely fine with the damage on it being nerfed.

In PvP i even see it more of a utility skill to keep up with someone who is running away rather then to do damage to them. It also has a kind of long start up time and you can be knocked out of it before ever getting any damage off with it. So it feels a bit risky to use it in PvP for damage as the risk of losing energy without any gain is a possibility.

I will admit that Hammer’s damage is a bit nutty and i’ve killed people with a single use of Coalescence of Ruin while they are 50% or less hp. However, it is a slow moving attack, so it could be dodged if people are watching for it. Does that make it balanced? I have no clue but it is worth noting.