Guild Wars 2

I had to open an extra thread for this because it’s a big deal for me.
Every class usually has a pool of skills to chose from when it comes to utility, heal and elite skills.

Currently this is not the case for the revenant, because they are determined by your legend. So if a person plays for example hammer/staff and jalis/ventari all skills are determined. So there isn’t much of build variety yet.

So I would really like to see a pool of 2 heal skills, 5 utility skills and 2 elite skills per legend. (Okay if the elite is determined by legend I can live with it)

Edit:
Another idea would be to add generall skills to the revenant that you can pick from which are not depending on your legend. So they could add like 2 general heal skills and 5 generall utility skills and one more elite.

Edit to clearify:
It’s about build variety and adjusting a build to fit you and/or the gamemode/situations you play!

That would be really great but the developers are only human. You’re almost asking them to create 5 more legends.

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

Honestly, they don’t even need to bother with more heals or elites but more utilities is a must. This class practically builds itself at this point. Everything is so overly defined, there is no room for creativity.

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

when describing what is optimal and often needed to make up for a classes weaknesses choice is merely and illusion. there’s a reason most elementalist run D/D and ALL cantirps.

I don’t expect a choice of healing and elite skills, not at launch at least. Maybe something way down the line. The Legends seem to be built around their elites, choosing a different one probably won’t work very well.

I would like to see 1 heal, 6 utilities, 1 elite for each Legend and that would be absolutely perfect to me. 5 utilities would be the minimum that I think they should do.

It allows each Legend to get a condi removal. Shiro to get some more assassin and/or defensive options. Jalis some buffs. Ventari something to deal damage, or more types of active healing if Ventari is still against doing any damage whatsoever. Mallyx can get some decent condi generation. Glint has any number of possibilities.

I’m not too optimistic this will happen with the silence there has been on the topic and how we’re a few months from release at this point, but I really hope they make it a priority.

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

when describing what is optimal and often needed to make up for a classes weaknesses choice is merely and illusion. there’s a reason most elementalist run D/D and ALL cantirps.

You’re right because optimal = the best. There can only be one best option. That isn’t the issue here.

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

when describing what is optimal and often needed to make up for a classes weaknesses choice is merely and illusion. there’s a reason most elementalist run D/D and ALL cantirps.

You’re right because optimal = the best. There can only be one best option. That isn’t the issue here.

what im trying to say is that revenant is kind of full up on every skill slot. the revenant has just as many skills as any other profession in fact in some areas more. Revs have 5 heals and 5 elites as well as 15 utility skills asking for more from a balance perspective doesn’t really make sense.

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

No I think you’re missing the point. That is the trade-off what other class gets 2 sets of utilities accessible in combat? You don’t get that kinda benefit without drawbacks. What would be the point of Legends if we could just swap all our kitten out anyway. You’re asking for each Legend to have more utilities to choose from which in the end would be pointless because there would be 3 that are optimal and the same 3 would get chosen. It is no different then any other class.

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

when describing what is optimal and often needed to make up for a classes weaknesses choice is merely and illusion. there’s a reason most elementalist run D/D and ALL cantirps.

You’re right because optimal = the best. There can only be one best option. That isn’t the issue here.

what im trying to say is that revenant is kind of full up on every skill slot. the revenant has just as many skills as any other profession in fact in some areas more. Revs have 5 heals and 5 elites as well as 15 utility skills asking for more from a balance perspective doesn’t really make sense.

The count of skills available in combat is also not the issue here. Revs only have 6 possible combinations to build the right half of their skill bar outside elite spec. That’s really low.

Griffith.7238:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

No I think you’re missing the point. That is the trade-off what other class gets 2 sets of utilities accessible in combat? You don’t get that kinda benefit without drawbacks. What would be the point of Legends if we could just swap all our kitten out anyway. You’re asking for each Legend to have more utilities to choose from which in the end would be pointless because there would be 3 that are optimal and the same 3 would get chosen. It is no different then any other class.

It sounds as if you’re suggesting that while other professions may have preferred “optimal” utilities, they don’t swap out their utility skills according the situation. In my experience this is simply not true and Revenant does not have that option.

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

No I think you’re missing the point. That is the trade-off what other class gets 2 sets of utilities accessible in combat? You don’t get that kinda benefit without drawbacks. What would be the point of Legends if we could just swap all our kitten out anyway. You’re asking for each Legend to have more utilities to choose from which in the end would be pointless because there would be 3 that are optimal and the same 3 would get chosen. It is no different then any other class.

It sounds as if you’re suggesting that while other professions may have preferred “optimal” utilities, they don’t swap out their utility skills according the situation. In my experience this is simply not true and Revenant does not have that option.

Not sure where you got the number 6 from ,but there are 10 total combinations of Legends you can use.

Yes Revs can its called swapping out for a different Legend.

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

when describing what is optimal and often needed to make up for a classes weaknesses choice is merely and illusion. there’s a reason most elementalist run D/D and ALL cantirps.

You’re right because optimal = the best. There can only be one best option. That isn’t the issue here.

what im trying to say is that revenant is kind of full up on every skill slot. the revenant has just as many skills as any other profession in fact in some areas more. Revs have 5 heals and 5 elites as well as 15 utility skills asking for more from a balance perspective doesn’t really make sense.

The count of skills available in combat is also not the issue here. Revs only have 6 possible combinations to build the right half of their skill bar outside elite spec. That’s really low.

“Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.” this is a quote Roy i thought you should see. Revenant has enough skills PERIOD….I understand your desire to see a skill bar thats has more wiggle room and diversity but considering both the design of Revenant legends and the total skill ratio other classes have in comparison to the Revenant it simply does not add to balance or make sense design wise to give us more utility options than we already have.

Griffith.7238:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

No I think you’re missing the point. That is the trade-off what other class gets 2 sets of utilities accessible in combat? You don’t get that kinda benefit without drawbacks. What would be the point of Legends if we could just swap all our kitten out anyway. You’re asking for each Legend to have more utilities to choose from which in the end would be pointless because there would be 3 that are optimal and the same 3 would get chosen. It is no different then any other class.

It sounds as if you’re suggesting that while other professions may have preferred “optimal” utilities, they don’t swap out their utility skills according the situation. In my experience this is simply not true and Revenant does not have that option.

Not sure where you got the number 6 from ,but there are 10 total combinations of Legends you can use.

Yes Revs can its called swapping out for a different Legend.

The comparison I continue to see is “other professions get 20 skills”, that would be without the elite spec so I am comparing to Rev without elite spec. 4 Legends can only combine 6 ways.

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

when describing what is optimal and often needed to make up for a classes weaknesses choice is merely and illusion. there’s a reason most elementalist run D/D and ALL cantirps.

You’re right because optimal = the best. There can only be one best option. That isn’t the issue here.

what im trying to say is that revenant is kind of full up on every skill slot. the revenant has just as many skills as any other profession in fact in some areas more. Revs have 5 heals and 5 elites as well as 15 utility skills asking for more from a balance perspective doesn’t really make sense.

The count of skills available in combat is also not the issue here. Revs only have 6 possible combinations to build the right half of their skill bar outside elite spec. That’s really low.

“Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.” this is a quote Roy i thought you should see. Revenant has enough skills PERIOD….I understand your desire to see a skill bar thats has more wiggle room and diversity but considering both the design of Revenant legends and the total skill ratio other classes have in comparison to the Revenant it simply does not add to balance or make sense design wise to give us more utility options than we already have.

Okay, don’t get hung up on what the extra utilities are they don’t have to be condi removal. It would just be nice to have more flexibility.

Apparently this is like politics and religion and neither side is going to agree with the other. That’s fine with me, I think it would be a valuable addition to the Revenant and you don’t.

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

when describing what is optimal and often needed to make up for a classes weaknesses choice is merely and illusion. there’s a reason most elementalist run D/D and ALL cantirps.

You’re right because optimal = the best. There can only be one best option. That isn’t the issue here.

what im trying to say is that revenant is kind of full up on every skill slot. the revenant has just as many skills as any other profession in fact in some areas more. Revs have 5 heals and 5 elites as well as 15 utility skills asking for more from a balance perspective doesn’t really make sense.

The count of skills available in combat is also not the issue here. Revs only have 6 possible combinations to build the right half of their skill bar outside elite spec. That’s really low.

“Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.” this is a quote Roy i thought you should see. Revenant has enough skills PERIOD….I understand your desire to see a skill bar thats has more wiggle room and diversity but considering both the design of Revenant legends and the total skill ratio other classes have in comparison to the Revenant it simply does not add to balance or make sense design wise to give us more utility options than we already have.

Okay, don’t get hung up on what the extra utilities are they don’t have to be condi removal. It would just be nice to have more flexibility.

Apparently this is like politics and religion and neither side is going to agree with the other. That’s fine with me, I think it would be a valuable addition to the Revenant and you don’t.

no im agreeing with you. all im saying is valuable addition or not we have reached a reasonable limit. so regardless of more potentially being better doesn’t mean we should get more.

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

when describing what is optimal and often needed to make up for a classes weaknesses choice is merely and illusion. there’s a reason most elementalist run D/D and ALL cantirps.

You’re right because optimal = the best. There can only be one best option. That isn’t the issue here.

what im trying to say is that revenant is kind of full up on every skill slot. the revenant has just as many skills as any other profession in fact in some areas more. Revs have 5 heals and 5 elites as well as 15 utility skills asking for more from a balance perspective doesn’t really make sense.

The count of skills available in combat is also not the issue here. Revs only have 6 possible combinations to build the right half of their skill bar outside elite spec. That’s really low.

“Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.” this is a quote Roy i thought you should see. Revenant has enough skills PERIOD….I understand your desire to see a skill bar thats has more wiggle room and diversity but considering both the design of Revenant legends and the total skill ratio other classes have in comparison to the Revenant it simply does not add to balance or make sense design wise to give us more utility options than we already have.

Okay, don’t get hung up on what the extra utilities are they don’t have to be condi removal. It would just be nice to have more flexibility.

Apparently this is like politics and religion and neither side is going to agree with the other. That’s fine with me, I think it would be a valuable addition to the Revenant and you don’t.

no im agreeing with you. all im saying is valuable addition or not we have reached a reasonable limit. so regardless of more potentially being better doesn’t mean we should get more.

Now I guess I’m confused, reasonable limit is 0? I’m talking about extra utilities for flexibility.

And all I’m trying to say is that if they give us too much customization we will be blatantly overpowered. They have to limit us in some form if we are going to be aloud to have 2 sets of active utilities in combat and weapon swap. The whole point is that we have two Legends in case one doesn’t provide something we can pick another that fills the first Legends weaknesses. If they give us condi removal, stun breaks, gap closers, gap creators, etc. on every Legend we would never need to swap except for energy and we would be completely broken in an overpowered way.

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Deth.4109:

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

I don’t mean to make you lul so hard again, but you’re missing the point. They chose those skills as you said. Revs get to only choose 2 skills out of 4 essentially, the Legends. Everything after that is predetermined. There’s only 6 possible combinations outside of elite spec. When you look at it that way the problem is much more apparent.

when describing what is optimal and often needed to make up for a classes weaknesses choice is merely and illusion. there’s a reason most elementalist run D/D and ALL cantirps.

You’re right because optimal = the best. There can only be one best option. That isn’t the issue here.

what im trying to say is that revenant is kind of full up on every skill slot. the revenant has just as many skills as any other profession in fact in some areas more. Revs have 5 heals and 5 elites as well as 15 utility skills asking for more from a balance perspective doesn’t really make sense.

The count of skills available in combat is also not the issue here. Revs only have 6 possible combinations to build the right half of their skill bar outside elite spec. That’s really low.

“Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.” this is a quote Roy i thought you should see. Revenant has enough skills PERIOD….I understand your desire to see a skill bar thats has more wiggle room and diversity but considering both the design of Revenant legends and the total skill ratio other classes have in comparison to the Revenant it simply does not add to balance or make sense design wise to give us more utility options than we already have.

Okay, don’t get hung up on what the extra utilities are they don’t have to be condi removal. It would just be nice to have more flexibility.

Apparently this is like politics and religion and neither side is going to agree with the other. That’s fine with me, I think it would be a valuable addition to the Revenant and you don’t.

no im agreeing with you. all im saying is valuable addition or not we have reached a reasonable limit. so regardless of more potentially being better doesn’t mean we should get more.

Now I guess I’m confused, reasonable limit is 0? I’m talking about extra utilities for flexibility.

we have enough utilities extra regardless of the customization it adds would simply be gratuitous.

Griffith.7238:

And all I’m trying to say is that if they give us too much customization we will be blatantly overpowered. They have to limit us in some form if we are going to be aloud to have 2 sets of active utilities in combat and weapon swap. The whole point is that we have two Legends in case one doesn’t provide something we can pick another that fills the first Legends weaknesses. If they give us condi removal, stun breaks, gap closers, gap creators, etc. on every Legend we would never need to swap except for energy and we would be completely broken in an overpowered way.

I guess the difference is I don’t see extra utilties as a buff necessarily. They would be giving us choice, not more powerful skills than we have now. It would allow us to always have 3 useful utilities in our bar, not 1 good one and 2 useless ones for what we’re doing (Shiro in Dungeons).

Adamantium.3682:

Griffith.7238:

And all I’m trying to say is that if they give us too much customization we will be blatantly overpowered. They have to limit us in some form if we are going to be aloud to have 2 sets of active utilities in combat and weapon swap. The whole point is that we have two Legends in case one doesn’t provide something we can pick another that fills the first Legends weaknesses. If they give us condi removal, stun breaks, gap closers, gap creators, etc. on every Legend we would never need to swap except for energy and we would be completely broken in an overpowered way.

I guess the difference is I don’t see extra utilties as a buff necessarily. They would be giving us choice, not more powerful skills than we have now. It would allow us to always have 3 useful utilities in our bar, not 1 good one and 2 useless ones for what we’re doing (Shiro in Dungeons).

I mean I see where you are coming from in that regard ,but that’s why we have Legend Swap and other then Glint energy restrictions don’t really allow us to use all 3 utilities in quick succession. I mean I definitely agree with your point earlier that the class doesn’t seem complete with the absence of its Elite Spec ,but at the same time I feel its not surprising consider the Rev was designed with the knowledge that it would get an Elite Spec the rest of the classes weren’t.

Regardless of the elite spec, the class should feel just as complete as the other 8 professions have for 3 years. Bringing in a new class with elite specs already in mind is no excuse for it to feel lifeless pre-elite spec.

If we were to turn a guardian into a revenant, we would throw away their virtues and give them stances. A meditation stance, a shouts stance, etc. Are guardians locked into just 3 meditations or just 3 shouts? No, they have options to customize their stances and the same privilege should be granted to revenants. I haven’t even watched the glint stuff yet but that shouldn’t matter. What we have now should be complete.

Hammerguard.9834:

Regardless of the elite spec, the class should feel just as complete as the other 8 professions have for 3 years. Bringing in a new class with elite specs already in mind is no excuse for it to feel lifeless pre-elite spec.

If we were to turn a guardian into a revenant, we would throw away their virtues and give them stances. A meditation stance, a shouts stance, etc. Are guardians locked into just 3 meditations or just 3 shouts? No, they have options to customize their stances and the same privilege should be granted to revenants. I haven’t even watched the glint stuff yet but that shouldn’t matter. What we have now should be complete.

I didn’t say it was excusable just that it didn’t surprise me. That’s also a total bull kitten statement they had multiple years to create the other classes and they’ve probably been working on the Rev for well under a single year. It takes time and testing to achieve balance. There is nothing to say that the Revenant won’t be amazing absent its Elite Spec by the time HoT comes out they are still working on it. Clearly you don’t like the design of the Rev so you should just play something else or not at all.

I personally don’t even care if they release Revenant with as many skills as it has now as long as they are willing to add some new utility skills in later. I understand they have severe time constraints, however, it doesn’t seem like it ever crossed their minds to add more skills for the Revenant pre or post HoT release which is the problem.

and no, I’m currently not liking Revenant’s design so much right now. The whole class and all it’s builds are practically already posted on metabattle with how simplistic it is. I like to get creative and try new things with every class I play and Revenant seems immune to such things.

“Don’t play it.”

I’d rather help the developers create a more fun and interesting class then hide and let it be released with clueless people like you backing it in it’s dull and incomplete form. I’m paying for a new class just as much as the next guy.

Hammerguard.9834:

and no, I’m currently not liking Revenant’s design so much right now. The whole class and all it’s builds are practically already posted on metabattle with how simplistic it is. I like to get creative and try new things with every class I play and Revenant seems immune to such things.

“Don’t play it.”

I’d rather help the developers create a more fun and interesting class then hide and let it be released with clueless people like you backing it in it’s dull and incomplete form. I’m paying for a new class just as much as the next guy.

Yes all the people that like the current form of the Revenant are clueless. Yet you are the one that doesn’t enjoy the current classes that they have been working on for over 5+ years and still think in a few months the Revenant is going to magically transfrom into your perfect class. Yep we are the clueless ones.

It’s not about creating a perfect class or something like that. It’s about build variety and adjusting a build to fit you and/or the gamemode/situations you play.

And that is a big deal. There are situations or game modes where for example I would never chose the herald, just because of his heal skill. In PvE you can’t take the benefit of it pretty often. Also for smallscale WvW/PvP I wouldn’t take it because experienced players can counter that to easily. So I really want an option to take another heal skill there.
(Yes I know you got another heal skill on the other legend, but that’s not the point.)

Another idea would be to add general skills to the revenant that you can pick from which are not depending on your legend. So they could add like 2 general heal skills and 5 generall utility skills and one more elite.

So they have a little bit less work and would also provide more variety options.

This has probably already been stated but we are class with two heals and two elites at any given time. The way the class is set up is for the switching between two weapons and two heroes, the challenge comes in with choosing the right legend pairing for what you want to do. For example I ended up using shiro/Jalis a lot during the beta and found that being able to switch between the two allowed for a variety in the build I was using.

Having so much more added to the legends is just op and would take a lot of time on the development end of things. We have five legends before Glint was revealed. At this point we have just as many utility skills as any other class, more elites than anyother class (i think I’ve only really mained ranger, mesmer, and ele before now each of which (outside of their race elites or the one unlocked for having a certain version of the game) had three total elites we have five and five heal skills without the added of our race heals). We already have a build verity and enough to worry about with weapon and legend swap, cooldowns, and energy use. To get the right “running utilities on” it is just a matter of switching legends out rather than utilities.

Builds are based around each legend which is very creative. Take the zerker: you would take shiro as default for the raw damage and evades and so forth then Jalis or Glint as the main second to switch out with Ventary if you would rather. You don’t have to use the shield at all or the weapon that goes with the legend i was running a lot of sword/axe and hammer. Or even staff and hammer. You aren’t being forced to use one type of weapon with one type of legend no more than you are being forced to use the greatsword with the reaper elite spec when it launches or staff right now on a necro.

Keep in mind two heals, six utilities, and two elites are open to us in combat. With the cooldown of our legend being the only major matter stopping us from switching between them.

What is op on having some more skill options to adjust your build?
You still only have 2*5 skills equipped.

And still this is not about the total amount of skills. It’s about adjusting your build to fit you. Yes if you want to play berserker you go shiro and another direct DMG legend… That’s not adjustment. Cause the complete build changes when changing a legend, what is about fine tuning in skills? You only got that via traits… And those are nearly bound to the chosen legends

Just on more utility would be enough… There are skills I never use, it’s really a waste of space. For example an Ele can have 13680 possible skill combinations (3 utilities out of a 20-skill pool, 4 heals, 3 elites), that’s without weapon combinations of course. The Herald has… 10 different combinations, woohoo! So if you think one more utility is too much asked for…

If we wanted to be all clones, why create different classes? Just drop a warrior with a hammer, a heal, an elite, no utilities, and there you go!

Edit: My bad, I compared a normal class with a specializaed one. The Ele wouldn’t get 13680 combinations, but rather 40480 combinations (24 utilities, 5 heals, 4 elites). Same goes for every other class, except the Revenant.

Deth.4109:

when describing what is optimal and often needed to make up for a classes weaknesses choice is merely and illusion. there’s a reason most elementalist run D/D and ALL cantirps.

And still you have certain situation where you drop one cantrip for a arcane spell or a conjured weapon. But I have to agree the ele currently doesn’t have that much build variety, too. D/D, Fresh Air and of course the staff build. But they have the adjustment I want to see for the revenant and also some different build varieties on each of them to adjust it to the situation.

Also I guess there are also some combinations of legends which people will not play because others are more effective

@Vergil
Thats it thank you! Sure many combinations dont make that mich sense, but you have the options of fine tuning.

NeroBoron.7285:

@Vergil
Thats it thank you! Sure many combinations dont make that mich sense, but you have the options of fine tuning.

As you said to Deth, indeed there are skills you don’t use (because they are, let’s be honest, useless). But then, since people state it’s ok to have 3 utilities, what am I supposed to with the skills I deem useless I am forced to use? That’s where the problem is.

Think of it people: what if you have to use the most useless skill of your main’s skill pool? It’s quite obvious you’d scream at a lost slot. I’d be kittened if I was force to use Illusion of Life on my mesmer and lose a “better” utility. That’s what we are complaining about: we don’t want a million new skills, just five to be able to tw

One bonus utility skill would’ve been perfect.

It’s just that some utilities are not really useful in all game modes and it’s usually just 1 utility per Legend that doesn’t quite fit or is not flexible enough. Which doesn’t mean that they’re bad skills! They’re excellent, just not for every situation.

Good examples would’ve been Unyielding Anguish for PvE, Phase Traversal for PvE, Forced Engagement in WvW and others.

Just one more utility covers that. Hell, we could maybe get some cool quest for each Legend to unlock that bonus uti!

Not sure if one utility is enough, but would be better than none. Still same problem goes for heal skill… I really hate those stupid skills that only heal you when the opponent is stupid and keeps hitting you^^

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

NeroBoron.7285:

@Vergil
Thats it thank you! Sure many combinations dont make that mich sense, but you have the options of fine tuning.

As you said to Deth, indeed there are skills you don’t use (because they are, let’s be honest, useless). But then, since people state it’s ok to have 3 utilities, what am I supposed to with the skills I deem useless I am forced to use? That’s where the problem is.

Think of it people: what if you have to use the most useless skill of your main’s skill pool? It’s quite obvious you’d scream at a lost slot. I’d be kittened if I was force to use Illusion of Life on my mesmer and lose a “better” utility. That’s what we are complaining about: we don’t want a million new skills, just five to be able to tw

But revenant’s utilities are all generally stronger then other profession utilities and on top of that they have no cool downs. So if use your energy right you should always have what you need available. Just the fact that you can spam revenant utilities means to me there should be some trade offs.

sebradle.7034:

But revenant’s utilities are all generally stronger then other profession utilities and on top of that they have no cool downs. So if use your energy right you should always have what you need available. Just the fact that you can spam revenant utilities means to me there should be some trade offs.

I wouldn’t call them “stronger”. Each skill has a game mode in which it is stronger, but other where they’re close to being useless.

Also, the saddest part is: if you see a Revenant, you know how they will play, so it’s easier to counter. And only one new utility per legend will offer not 10 but 20 different builds… Compared to 40480 from other classes, it’s still far, yet twice better than 10!

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

sebradle.7034:

But revenant’s utilities are all generally stronger then other profession utilities and on top of that they have no cool downs. So if use your energy right you should always have what you need available. Just the fact that you can spam revenant utilities means to me there should be some trade offs.

I wouldn’t call them “stronger”. Each skill has a game mode in which it is stronger, but other where they’re close to being useless.

Also, the saddest part is: if you see a Revenant, you know how they will play, so it’s easier to counter. And only one new utility per legend will offer not 10 but 20 different builds… Compared to 40480 from other classes, it’s still far, yet twice better than 10!

Would give you more than 20 different builds.

If you add a new utility skill to say shiro that would give you four utilities to choose from for three slots.

That is 4 choose 3 = 4 ways you can have a shiro bar

There is 5 legends so you have 5 choose 2 = 10 combinations of legends

So if you had shiro/ventari
4 ways to have shiro * 4 ways to have ventari = 16 different combinations of shiro/ventari load out

16 * 10 = 160 combinations of utility bars if you gave each legend a new utility.

I think my math is correct my combinatorics is a little rusty. Someone can check it if they want.

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

Well it makes me “lul” that so many people only play the meta builds. In pve especially there are many options to go with.

I’d be happy if there was just one extra utility per legend so we’d have at least a little choice.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Just on more utility would be enough… There are skills I never use, it’s really a waste of space. For example an Ele can have 13680 possible skill combinations (3 utilities out of a 20-skill pool, 4 heals, 3 elites), that’s without weapon combinations of course. The Herald has… 10 different combinations, woohoo! So if you think one more utility is too much asked for…

If we wanted to be all clones, why create different classes? Just drop a warrior with a hammer, a heal, an elite, no utilities, and there you go!

Edit: My bad, I compared a normal class with a specializaed one. The Ele wouldn’t get 13680 combinations, but rather 40480 combinations (24 utilities, 5 heals, 4 elites). Same goes for every other class, except the Revenant.

Yup 40480 combinations with only like maybe 3 viable ones .. gg

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

Well it makes me “lul” that so many people only play the meta builds. In pve especially there are many options to go with.

I’d be happy if there was just one extra utility per legend so we’d have at least a little choice.

Well I think it’s pretty much a given that you can get away with anything in most PvE settings Meta builds are designed for Speed Runs. Everyone plays for their own reason ,but I think most people play to play with other people thats kinda what MMOs are about and in that case you are doing not only yourself but you whole group a disservice by running some random build that doesn’t fit into the meta. PvP is exponentially more strict and if you want to excel Meta is really the only way to go. Most meta builds leave a few utilities optional ,but that doesn’t mean you should just put anything there is always gonna be a choice between like maybe 1-3 Utilities out of the 25 or so you have. Yes other classes have more options then Rev ,but saying some bs like “They have 40,000 combinations to choose from” is completely inaccurate. If you want to play your class at it’s highest level you have very few combinations to choose from.

sebradle.7034:

But revenant’s utilities are all generally stronger then other profession utilities and on top of that they have no cool downs. So if use your energy right you should always have what you need available. Just the fact that you can spam revenant utilities means to me there should be some trade offs.

Stronger? The skills itself are as strong as other utilities. That there is no cooldown on some skills or such a low cooldown that you can basically spam it. Is another problem. I already posted somewhere that they really have to add a CD to Pain Absobation because you can get nearly perma resistance. That is a problem for some other skills as well and should be fixed. (Even if not a thief can also spam his skills, but I agree that should not be the case)

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

Well it makes me “lul” that so many people only play the meta builds. In pve especially there are many options to go with.

I’d be happy if there was just one extra utility per legend so we’d have at least a little choice.

Well I think it’s pretty much a given that you can get away with anything in most PvE settings Meta builds are designed for Speed Runs. Everyone plays for their own reason ,but I think most people play to play with other people thats kinda what MMOs are about and in that case you are doing not only yourself but you whole group a disservice by running some random build that doesn’t fit into the meta. PvP is exponentially more strict and if you want to excel Meta is really the only way to go. Most meta builds leave a few utilities optional ,but that doesn’t mean you should just put anything there is always gonna be a choice between like maybe 1-3 Utilities out of the 25 or so you have. Yes other classes have more options then Rev ,but saying some bs like “They have 40,000 combinations to choose from” is completely inaccurate. If you want to play your class at it’s highest level you have very few combinations to choose from.

The meta is the meta because some popular people decide that works better and in the case of pvp likely counters the previous meta. I don’t think random strangers being mad at you is a reason to run the strict meta. If you play for others approval you’re playing wrong. If you run with friends or have cool guildies they don’t care much what you run.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Griffith.7238:

Deth.4109:

idk Revenant has enough skills as is. if Revenant is too perfect i.e highly polished in all regards. it would inevitably need to get a nerf. while it would be nice to get more skills for each legend like most professions we ultimately wouldn’t use some of them like most classes do now.

^This exactly. I keep seeing people post about build variety like all the other classes have it makes me lul so hard. Like what build variety do other classes have. On average other classes choose between 1 of 2 viable heals, 3 of maybe 5-6 viable utilities, and 1-2 viable elites. As a Rev we get 2 Heals, 6 utilities, and 2 elites at all times seems a fair trade to me and we are barely lacking the so called build variety that other classes have.

Well it makes me “lul” that so many people only play the meta builds. In pve especially there are many options to go with.

I’d be happy if there was just one extra utility per legend so we’d have at least a little choice.

Well I think it’s pretty much a given that you can get away with anything in most PvE settings Meta builds are designed for Speed Runs. Everyone plays for their own reason ,but I think most people play to play with other people thats kinda what MMOs are about and in that case you are doing not only yourself but you whole group a disservice by running some random build that doesn’t fit into the meta. PvP is exponentially more strict and if you want to excel Meta is really the only way to go. Most meta builds leave a few utilities optional ,but that doesn’t mean you should just put anything there is always gonna be a choice between like maybe 1-3 Utilities out of the 25 or so you have. Yes other classes have more options then Rev ,but saying some bs like “They have 40,000 combinations to choose from” is completely inaccurate. If you want to play your class at it’s highest level you have very few combinations to choose from.

The meta is the meta because some popular people decide that works better and in the case of pvp likely counters the previous meta. I don’t think random strangers being mad at you is a reason to run the strict meta. If you play for others approval you’re playing wrong. If you run with friends or have cool guildies they don’t care much what you run.

It’s not about playing for someones approval its about being effective. If you aren’t playing to win then yeah I suppose it doesn’t matter what you run (which is fine not everyone is competitive) ,but there’s a reason you don’t go AP Darius because its not effective. I could care less what other people in the match think of my performance ,but I do care about what I think of my own performance and I want to know win or lose that I did all I could. I don’t want to say to myself after that match “Oh we totally would’ve won that if I wasn’t using this completely kittened build”.

NeroBoron.7285:

sebradle.7034:

But revenant’s utilities are all generally stronger then other profession utilities and on top of that they have no cool downs. So if use your energy right you should always have what you need available. Just the fact that you can spam revenant utilities means to me there should be some trade offs.

Stronger? The skills itself are as strong as other utilities. That there is no cooldown on some skills or such a low cooldown that you can basically spam it. Is another problem. I already posted somewhere that they really have to add a CD to Pain Absobation because you can get nearly perma resistance. That is a problem for some other skills as well and should be fixed. (Even if not a thief can also spam his skills, but I agree that should not be the case)

I said generally stronger. I think this is true because Revenant has more viable utilities then any other profession. Because it is a newer class (more gameplay to draw from when designing them) and the utilities have been packaged together to work with one another.

Also I was responding to someone who is comparing revenant utilites to having illusion of life forced onto your bar. I think it is beyond ridiculous to compare Revenant utilities to something so highly situational. So please give me the revenant utilities that are so situational that you don’t see yourself using them because they all seem to be of use to me.

Also you cant ignore the no cooldown thing because that is a huge trade off for customization. If you were allowed to choose exactly what you need and have it on no cooldown seems to me like it would make gameplay pretty easy.

I feel that yes the Revenant is lacking in customization and that makes it feel more boring. But I do not look at any of the Legends or their utilities and think oh wow that is just kitten I am never going to use that.

Even if no additional utilities have to be added for the sake of balance and meta builds, it would be nice to have the feeling you’re not exactly the same as everyone else because both your weapon skills and you utility skills are predetermined by respectively your weapon and your legend. There probably will be a meta build, with utilities people will expect you to take, but even if new options are weaker, or only needed in a particular niche, options are always welcome imo.
I like to compare it to trait lines, although there is probably an optimized setup for most stuff, trying out something else can surprise your opponents and keep your own gameplay more interesting.

Wandelaar.3746:

Even if no additional utilities have to be added for the sake of balance and meta builds, it would be nice to have the feeling you’re not exactly the same as everyone else because both your weapon skills and you utility skills are predetermined by respectively your weapon and your legend. There probably will be a meta build, with utilities people will expect you to take, but even if new options are weaker, or only needed in a particular niche, options are always welcome imo.
I like to compare it to trait lines, although there is probably an optimized setup for most stuff, trying out something else can surprise your opponents and keep your own gameplay more interesting.

I agree with this here. There is a weird feeling when you see everyone using the same exact stuff while playing Revenant.

NeroBoron.7285:

sebradle.7034:

But revenant’s utilities are all generally stronger then other profession utilities and on top of that they have no cool downs. So if use your energy right you should always have what you need available. Just the fact that you can spam revenant utilities means to me there should be some trade offs.

Stronger? The skills itself are as strong as other utilities. That there is no cooldown on some skills or such a low cooldown that you can basically spam it. Is another problem. I already posted somewhere that they really have to add a CD to Pain Absobation because you can get nearly perma resistance. That is a problem for some other skills as well and should be fixed. (Even if not a thief can also spam his skills, but I agree that should not be the case)

Pain Absorbtion gives you one boon. One boon.

You do know what’s one boon to Mesmer or Necromancer, amrite?

Besides, try “spamming” utilities. We’ll see how far you will go.

Mostly a pve perspective, but.

I think something that people are overlooking in this thread is that the m-word doesn’t dictate a single, static build that is optimal for every single situation, rather it dictates the build that is optimal for that specific situation, and as such it’s dynamic. Even if there are three obvious “meta” utility choices for this piece of content, only two of them may be “meta” for another with a new skill taking up the third slot, etc. If you look at actual build or dungeon guides, they give you all kinds of situational heal, utility, and even trait changes to make for specific reasons.

Furthermore, we can make informed decisions based on other factors. If I’m pugging with my PS warr, I may take more sustain or Fury generation than I otherwise would with an experienced party where I know other people are going to support me.

Revenant currently lacks this kind of finesse. You’re essentially choosing your entire kit on the basis of the one skill you may need. This gives Revenant fewer ways to approach any content, and adding options puts them on par with other classes, not above them.