Guild Wars 2

Some small suggestions for improving Rev core class:

1)Legendary Dwarf Stance & Retribution trait line

Inspiring Reinforcement – increase duration of Stability given to 2 seconds.
Forced Engagement energy cost lowered to 25.
Rite of the Great Dwarf:no longer breaks stun but reduces condition damage and durations by 50%,reduced cast time to 1

Versed in Stone, this trait is completly reworked to improve Legendary Dwarf Stance abilities:

*Inspiring Reinforcement – range increased to 900
*Vengefull Hammers / Release Hammers – now gives 2 stacks of Retaliation on cast
*Forced Engagement – range increase to 1500
*Rite of the Great Dwarf – now breaks stun and has it’s cast time reduced cast time to 3/4

Reasoning: I feel that these changes would make Jallis more appealing to use ,by trading reliance on RNG for an increase in Jallis’s defensive capabilities. Similar to Ventari, Jallis will function as the primary legend – the one kept up for when engaging an opponent.

2)Legendary Centaur Stance & Salvation Traitline
For the legendary centaur stance I would recommend that the range and base healing of all its skills should be increased. Range should be 360 and Purifying Essence should be a stun breaker.
-Disarming Riposte should have its cool down reduced to 15 seconds.
-Eluding Nullification should have its cool down decreased to 5 seconds
-Momentary Pacification, while in Centaur, Dwarf & Demon,the elite skill will also daze 5 enemies in a 360 radius for 2 1/2 seconds and while in Asassin and Dragon stance the elite skill will generate a water field and 5 healing fragments. (this last bit is due to the bug on Momentary Pacification, where it can’t stack 2 cc effects on an elite).

3)Demon stance & corruption

-Rampant Vex & Demonic defiance should swap places to enhance the defensive nature of Legendary Demon stance(protection vs condi dps) and reduce RNG relliance.
- Venom Enchantment & Opportune Extraction should swap places to restore flexibility for builds within the Coruption skill line.
-Replenishing Despair should scale better with Healing Power, at about a 0.1 coefficient.
-Venom Enhancement should have its cool down reduced to 10 seconds. Reduce the poison duration increase to +33%.
-Spontaneous Destruction should have its cool down reduced to 20 seconds. It’s even less likely to pierce multiple foes than the actual skill since you can’t really control when this one activates.

4) Asassin stance

-Make PT cost 20 energy and remove Unblockable from it.

Blind and immob on elite?

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else have any alternate proposals for Momentary Pacification?

Maybe instead of daze from using an elite skill, it could cause a daze from swapping legend or weapon like Primal Echoes.

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else have any alternate proposals for Momentary Pacification?

Not sure if this is right place to ask.. But Vengeful Hammers auto turn off when hitting walls.. or some objects.. Is this bug or mecha..nism ? It’s very frustrating when leveling my character.

Hooglese.4860:

Blind and immob on elite?

This one, we kinda lack immobilize except for sword’s 4.

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else have any alternate proposals for Momentary Pacification?

Look up Rym’s thread with suggestions for Revenant, while slightly outdated some of the stuff regarding Ventari and Malyx are still true.

While we are at it can we have stun break on Puryfing Essence and this weapon for Revenant core class: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-s-Main-Hand-Ranged-Dagger/first#post6164131

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else have any alternate proposals for Momentary Pacification?

First thing, Josh. Salvation is a traitline that, with no discussion, requires the most attention out of all. Nobody uses it. There are core flaws with whole specialization. I see that you’re looking into some Revenant issues, so here is my proposal:

• Could the team make a thread where you would point out issues you’re looking into and ask the community to share opinions about these specific problems / possible solutions? I know that besides myself there were/are some people on this forum who could help and were giving feedback/posting solutions since earliest Rev betas.

Now, about the specific trait. Momentary Pacification as trait makes no sense in the first place. Only Jalis and Mallyx don’t have toolkit with CC on Elite.

Here are two quick replacement suggestions, just for this trait. I can make more. Thanks to that_shaman for his tooltip builder tool, as always.

Rym

Jack Skywalker.5674:

…

4) Asassin stance

-Make PT cost 20 energy and remove Unblockable from it.

So, we assumed that the reason they put a CD and increased the energy cost of PT was a couple of unblockable attacks?

Cause I thought they didn’t want us to be able to use it that frequently and chain powerful attacks.

I think that the idea of PT becoming blockable isn’t good and will just reduce the skill functionality and synergy with other skills (there was a reason they geve it 2 unblockable attacks in the 1st place). Of course increasing its cost by 75% was an even worse idea but forfeiting partial functionality just to get things less worse isn’t actually a remedy but more of a bad medicine towards the wrong path.

No matter what an increase by 75% is way too much for anything. Making 20→25 would make more sense and would let people judge it. Now they are close to breaking it!

Ilias.8647:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

…

4) Asassin stance

-Make PT cost 20 energy and remove Unblockable from it.

So, we assumed that the reason they put a CD and increased the energy cost of PT was a couple of unblockable attacks?

Cause I thought they didn’t want us to be able to use it that frequently and chain powerful attacks.

I think that the idea of PT becoming blockable isn’t good and will just reduce the skill functionality and synergy with other skills (there was a reason they geve it 2 unblockable attacks in the 1st place). O

The reason why the attacks were powerfull was that they couldn’t be blocked.People mostly used PT as a gap closer and without a decent gap closer we get royaly rekt by anyone who has access to a ranged weapon. Also we get Unblockable from a Devastation trait so no bigy there.

Still you have got me thinking now…what if PT costed between 20 & 25 energy, did no damage but gave the 2 stacks of Unblockable instead.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

The reason why the attacks were powerfull was that they couldn’t be blocked.People mostly used PT as a gap closer and without a decent gap closer we get royaly rekt by anyone who has access to a ranged weapon. Also we get Unblockable from a Devastation trait so no bigy there.

Still you have got me thinking now…what if PT costed between 20 & 25 energy, did no damage but gave the 2 stacks of Unblockable instead.

Yeah, two unblockable attacks that can miss or be dodged, right? I don’t think that the damage dealt by PT alone was the issue.

The whole idea of PT granting you 2 unblockable attacks is that you could chain PT with, lets say, Grasping Shadow. If the PT isn’t unblockable then its way to easy to negate GS and your Rev will stand there..!

Unblockable trait from Devastation traitline isn’t the same as it needs one attack to be blocked in order to trigger.

What u said about PT as a gap closer and the effect of ranged waeps on Rev is true.

Can Unrelenting Assault go back to 4 or five hits but just remove the Might gain on hit?

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else have any alternate proposals for Momentary Pacification?

Whatever you do with it, don’t remove it or change it’s core thing. Maybe only slight adjustment for Shiro and Glint elites. This trait alone makes Salvation traitline worth taking.

Euthymias.7984:

Can Unrelenting Assault go back to 4 or five hits but just remove the Might gain on hit?

It’s “only” five hits now, it was 7 before… And it was better that way

For Pacification, why not a different effect on each legend? Could be hard to put, but at least it’s worth a try ^^

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Euthymias.7984:

Can Unrelenting Assault go back to 4 or five hits but just remove the Might gain on hit?

It’s “only” kittens now, it was 7 before… And it was better that way

Ah, right, right. Its been so long that I’ve forgotten how much it original was. Either way, if they won’t make UA focus a single target out instead of bouncing between multiple ones, it should at least go back to its old number of bounces without gaining might imo.

Although I know the thread’s about core Rev changes, another idea I was hoping for would be a change to the Soothing Bastion trait in Glint’s line. Instead of its current implementation of auto-CH when below the threshold/boon duration, it can gain additional healing pulses (still the same amount of healing per tick) for each attack blocked while using Crystallized Hibernation or grant Protection in a similar manner.

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else have any alternate proposals for Momentary Pacification?

My suggestion was making it increase the interrupt cool down (like power block) and immobilize on interrupt.

It can be seen on burtniks rework .

Everything for Jails except vengeful hammers is borderline useless in every context, and not because the effect is necessarily terrible, the costs are way too high for effect. Inspiring Reinforcement area is way too small to be effective and costs too much energy. Forced Engagement low CD, but way too high of a cost to be considered. Rite of the Great Dwarf is the biggest offender. A slightly stronger “protection” at a ridiculous cost and 1.25 cast time?! Who thought this would be remotely useful?!

Same for Ventari. To be fair I cannot comment on Ventari in detail, but I tried it before and after buff, pretty darn weak. As well, I never see anyone run it in any content. It does not heal enough to be considered as support or sustainability. It does not offer damage or mobility.

As for trait lines, the entire Salvation line is useless because Ventari is useless.

Opinion here, I think both salvation line and ventari should provide some buffs to staff in the sustained damage department.

Devastation, while defiantly strong, lacks survivability. It is dropped in SPvP in favor of retribution.

Opinion again, I do not like the herald line. It has way too many buffs to support, damage and survivability. It is true that all elite lines do as well, but majority of classes are usable (while not optimal) without their elite lone. Reverent is not usable without herald in any content in any form. I am not sure there is a solution for this without an entire restructure to the class, but it surely is poor design.

The initial poster’s idea of Momentary Pacification generating water fields I think should be looked into. Ventri does need some more love.
Some ideas. First Ventri’s base healing should be increased, think Druid. Also the line itself requires too much to be put in healing power (base of 0), so it limits it’s overall usefulness if you’re not specifically in that spec. Instead it should work with more commonly used stats.
Minors:
Disarming Riposte- keep 20 icd but now reads: striking a foe blinds them (4s)
Hardened Foundation- Gain healing power based on a percentage of your toughness
Serene Rejuvenation- keep

Tier 1
Nourishing Roots- increase radius (360?)
Blinding Truth- Replace: Allies healed by you gain Protections (1s), radius increased equal to Nourishing Roots
Tranquil Balance- Fine

Tier II
Tranquil Benediction- Fine
Eluding Nullification- increase conditions removed from 1 to 2. Make clear it removed from you too.
Invoking Harmony- thematically fine, usefulness is dubious without increase to base healing of the legend

Tier III
Selfless Amplification- Again this requires you to very specifically spec into healing which limits the usefulness of the build. Instead it should read: Increase healing power based on a percentage of your power. (10%)
Natural Abundance- Feels redundant to what the staff naturally does. Be interested if it were changed, maby proc Purfying Essence?
Momentary Pacfication: When activating an elite skill drop a water field and provide regen (2s) to yourself and 3 other allies within 360 radius

Skills:
Ventari’s will- summoning the tablet is a blast finisher (thematically makes sense you’re creating a rock out of nothing)
Protective Solace is a water field not a light field
Natural Harmonly is a blast finisher
Purfying Essence: reduce cost to 25
Energy Explusion- radius is 360

Because I have time:
Corruption
This is one of my favorite legends, but feels so unfinished trait wise. I like the skills and the ideas.

Minors
Rampant Vex- okay
Opportune Extraction- rng boon removal, cool
Yearning Empowerment- Conditions last 15% longer

Tier I
Replenishing Despair is based off an model where Mallyx put conditions on himself. Present day Mallyx feels like a legend who is all about increasing pain to others not taking it on himself to get strong. This should be a boon conversation trait
50% chance on a critical to convert one boon into a condition.
Demonic Defiance- okay
Venom Enchancement- When you apply a condition you also apply poison.

Tier II
Bolstered Anguish- With no way to keep resistance up all the time and no real condition removal this trait feels like death. I suggest flipping it. Deal % increased damage for X number of conditions on an opponent.
Frigid Precision- okay
Banish Enchantment- okay

Tier III
Diabolic Inferno- okay
Maniacal Persistance- I think this should increase condition damage and provide a crit bonus?
Pulsating Perstilience: okay, I suppose

Neither Frigid precision nor diabolic inferno are okay. Frigid precision is completely useless and not worth to pick up above the other two.

Diabolic on the other hand missed the powercreep which other classes have received. For gm trait its kind of lackluster. Pretty much all burn traits also increases duration or damage. See;

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Precision
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/King_of_Fires
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amplified_Wrath
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Radiant_Fire

The closer one to diabolic is Incendiary powder. Diabolic is lacking here and +33% dura would bring it on par with rest. You picking it up atm bc the other 2 traits are a joke.

Maniacal would be fine if it increased crit chance based on the amount of condi your target has (3% per unique condi). Pair that with bolstered, condi copy from Mallyx elite and you have a nice toy to play with.

Burtnik.5218:

Neither Frigid precision nor diabolic inferno are okay. Frigid precision is completely useless and not worth to pick up above the other two.

Diabolic on the other hand missed the powercreep which other classes have received. For gm trait its kind of lackluster. Pretty much all burn traits also increases duration or damage. See;

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Precision
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/King_of_Fires
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Amplified_Wrath
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Radiant_Fire

The closer one to diabolic is Incendiary powder. Diabolic is lacking here and +33% dura would bring it on par with rest. You picking it up atm bc the other 2 traits are a joke.

Maniacal would be fine if it increased crit chance based on the amount of condi your target has (3% per unique condi). Pair that with bolstered, condi copy from Mallyx elite and you have a nice toy to play with.

I agree, I only say okay because I don’t have any idea on to tweak without making op. I

Coruption’s DPS is solely built around crits….which personaly I dislike because I hate RNG based mechanics, that’s why I recomended that Rampant Vex be moved in a place where we are not forced into critical strike based play style.

If Embrace the Darkness remains the elite skill,then Diabolic Inferno can be changed to this: Burn nearby foes when using an elite skill. If the elite skill used is Embrace the Darkness than gain an aura which applies burning unto enemies.

@Rym for me Momentary Pacification made sense because Salvation and Ventari are based around a defensive play style, that’s why I recommended that the effect of Momentary pacification varries for each legend, given the ones who already have CC on elite create a water combo field instead….while I like that Unwavering Mercy trait, I feel it would make Heralds very close to OP due to the amount of skills with Upkeep it has available compared to core class legends (ventari hilariously enough benefits the least with only 1 upkeep skill). Maybe make it a flat bonus while under the effect of Regeneration.

This is my suggestion in regards to pvp. Buff cleansing channel minor on the invocation line to remove 2 to 3 condis on swap and allow shield skills to remove 1 or two on use. Maybe one if you buff cleansing channel. This will bring revs more up to par versus condis and encourage more invocation revs over passive retrib.

I just wanted to say some changes i would make to condi removal specifically, ignoring other quality of life changes. Right now rev get heavily countered by condition. At first thought u might think every class has a counter, but, for example, guardian countering thief is much different than condition countering rev. Every class can use conditions and limits rev’s potential.
Staff 4 should be a 1/2 cast time, like the shiro/glint heal. shield 4 should remove 2 conditions, and cleansing channel should remove 2 or 3 conditions.

Lettuce.2945:

This is my suggestion in regards to pvp. Buff cleansing channel minor on the invocation line to remove 2 to 3 condis on swap and allow shield skills to remove 1 or two on use. Maybe one if you buff cleansing channel. This will bring revs more up to par versus condis and encourage more invocation revs over passive retrib.

What stops me from going retri/invo/herald? Been there, done that.

A Herald minor could remove either 1/2 condis on block use (shield/sword offhand/staff), or it could remove movement impairing effects since both of those groups absolutely wreck Revs after the nerfs.

Dessembrae.6327:

A Herald minor could remove either 1/2 condis on block use (shield/sword offhand/staff), or it could remove movement impairing effects since both of those groups absolutely wreck Revs after the nerfs.

Herald is a boon bot, not a utility legend. If we get condi removal it should be in dwarf or centaur, and those would be buffing what already exists. We need ways to encourage legend combos that don’t rely on Herald as it is almost a must play to get the most efficiency out of Rev.

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else have any alternate proposals for Momentary Pacification?

I like the idea of making it work like Power Block.

Momentary Pacification

• Blind foes you interrupt
• Increased skill cooldown

Other stuff that could be done to make Ventari and Salvation more interesting:

Staff

• AA: Healing Orbs are a nice idea but controlling the tablet already takes quite some effort. The orbs are just tedious and inefficient. Just make it work like Mace on Guardians.
• #2 Chain: This chain is way too expensive. Yes, it is powerful. But all other weapon sets got at least one more cheap weapon skill to use so you’re not stuck spamming the AA. Reduce the damage if needed but keep the CC.

Salvation

Adept

• Disarming Riposte: Meh. It’s not bad but the cooldown is way too high to be actually useful. What about letting it apply Slow instead of Blind and reducing the cooldown? Slow also somewhat fits the theme of pacification. Weakness would work as well but Jalis got that one…

• Nourishing Roots: It’s okay-ish but Regeneration is easily supplied through other sources. More importantly, Glint does it better. I’d like it to pulse 1-2s of Vigor. Additionally, the value healed could be increased. I also believe that something like Vigor and Endurance fits the Centaur theme.
• Blinding Truths: Quite interesting but only works well with Ventari. Even then active use is way too expensive to use it offensively. Might be fine if moving the tablet got cheaper.
• Tranquil Balance: Okay, I guess.

Master

• Hardened Foundation: It clearly just exists because we got Nomad gear. But that’s about it. Close to no worthwhile synergy with other traits plus Toughness suits Jalis better. I’d say, make it about Centaurs and be something like ‘Grant nearby allies 5s of Swiftness when hit (ICD) and movement impairing conditions are 33% less effective.’ – but Glint already got the Swiftness. Almost anything else would be better, really.

• Tranquil Benediction: Would already be way cooler after they removed the orbs, making it grant boons per AA. Durations might have to be shaved.
• Elluding Nullification: Might not be able to keep up with current condition spam but actually quite powerful when compared to other similar traits.
• Invoking Harmony: Doesn’t make any sense because Ventari basically is the only relevant source of healing Revenants can provide. Yes, there are Staff and Shield but the trait remains useless most of the time. Be shameless. Copy Natural Mender from Druids. Could even make this the new Staff trait, scrap Trangquil Benediction and add another soft CC trait which this tier currently lacks. Something with Cripple (Roots), more Slow (e.g. Slow on Blind) or more Blind could work well.

Grandmaster

• Serene Rejuvination: It’s fine. Although the icon reminds me of an impaled dolphin.

• Selfless Amplification: Really boring but fine.
• Momentary Pacification: Talked about this above.
• Natural Abundance: Same as for the orbs. Ventari already requires quite some micromanagement without having to pick up any shinies. What about ‘Replenish x Endurance of nearby allies when using a Ventari skill.’? Again, doesn’t compete with Glint and is semi-selfish. Does fit the Centaur theme.

Legendary Centaur Stance

Project Tranquility

• Remove the energy costs
  Switchting to Ventari shouldn’t be punished by instantly draining your energy

Ventari’s Will

• Reduce the energy costs to 5
• Lower the healing if needed

Protective Solace

• Make it work like Druid Staff 5
• Change the field type to Water
  I really don’t get why this didn’t happen on release…

Natural Harmony

• Increase the healing coefficient
• Also heals yourself for half the amount (no matter where the tablet is)

Purifying Essence

• Also removes 1 condition from yourself (no matter where the tablet is)

Energy Expulsion

• Divided into two skills
• #1 knocks back and executes a blast finisher.
• #2 available for 5s (no energy costs). Explodes the tablet and heals nearby allies.
• No fragments.

Mysticjedi.6053:

Herald is a boon bot, not a utility legend. If we get condi removal it should be in dwarf or centaur, and those would be buffing what already exists. We need ways to encourage legend combos that don’t rely on Herald as it is almost a must play to get the most efficiency out of Rev.

Longterm that is the proper solution. But right now Rev is terrible without Herald, and all specs need a way to alleviate the condi-meta somewhat. All specs have access to a block and Herald is absolutely a defensive “block” line.

The alternative is that the subpar traits get fixed and Ventari/Mallyx/Midget get reimagined to something useful that doesn’t bug out. But given the speed and diligence of the class fixing around here it seems more practical to present quick fixes that actually have a (minor) chance of happening.

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else have any alternate proposals for Momentary Pacification?

Just to throw one out there:

Replace with “Momentary Solace”, which generates a short Solace bubble around the revenant on using an elite skill. If you have this trigger when the elite is activated rather than when the elite is finished, this would also allow for protection against projectile-based interrupts of rev elites with long tells like Jade Winds, Rite of the Great Dwarf, and Chaotic Release.

teleport to the location of your tablet when using https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Energy_Expulsion

Project Tranquility

• Remove the energy costs
  Switchting to Ventari shouldn’t be punished by instantly draining your energy

Ventari’s Will

• Reduce the energy costs to 5
• Lower the healing if needed

Protective Solace

• Make it work like Druid Staff 5
• Change the field type to Water
  I really don’t get why this didn’t happen on release…

Natural Harmony

• Increase the healing coefficient
• Also heals yourself for half the amount (no matter where the tablet is)

Purifying Essence

• Also removes 1 condition from yourself (no matter where the tablet is)

Energy Expulsion

• Divided into two skills
• #1 knocks back and executes a blast finisher.
• #2 available for 5s (no energy costs). Explodes the tablet and heals nearby allies.
• No fragments.

Ventaris will(summon the tablet) should be a stunbreaker. When you swap to ventari you have no stunbreaker ready which is problematic in a oot of situations.
Additiobal add a stunbreak to purifying essence. It stunbreaks you wherever you are and allies near the tablet.
Good suggestions btw????

I wonder why most suggestions for Ventari want to turn him into the next DH balance wise…
They make it too passive and easy to play do that for low level play it stomps anything but for higher level play it has to be weak…

If you guys want passive healing why do you not play auramancer?

i dont think the amount of healing is the problem. on paper the ventary has good healing burst abilities which all are aoe

ventary will should be 240 r and not 120. i notice in team fight ppl move dodging evade so to use it right 120 is just too small radios to be effective healing skill (maybe its good in wvw)

rev need 1 more break stun so maybe with protective solace give it longer cd and also make it water field and when you finish it (diminish sloace) it will be blast finisher

i always had trouble even in 1v1 against high cc enemy like engi thief and warrior (direct dmg not condi)
also vengeful hammers should have better dmg and healing with break stun as well

also i dont like fragments as its only in as bunker 1v1 not as healer. but this is me

messiah.1908:

i dont think the amount of healing is the problem. on paper the ventary has good healing burst abilities which all are aoe

ventary will should be 240 r and not 120. i notice in team fight ppl move dodging evade so to use it right 120 is just too small radios to be effective healing skill (maybe its good in wvw)

rev need 1 more break stun so maybe with protective solace give it longer cd and also make it water field and when you finish it (diminish sloace) it will be blast finisher

i always had trouble even in 1v1 against high cc enemy like engi thief and warrior (direct dmg not condi)
also vengeful hammers should have better dmg and healing with break stun as well

also i dont like fragments as its only in as bunker 1v1 not as healer. but this is me

Run proper traits remove Soothing bastion and get Enhanced Bulwark.
Not that it would be a bad idea giving Ventari a stun break on PE. What you are doing to PS is a no-no though.
If you want to run Ventari for support stop trying to frontline, it’s more efficient to heal others than yourself. Also take some outgoing healing traits, runes and sigils.
Another note don’t use hammer you give up too much support and sustain for a negligible damage. (This part you did correctly in your build)

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

i dont think the amount of healing is the problem. on paper the ventary has good healing burst abilities which all are aoe

ventary will should be 240 r and not 120. i notice in team fight ppl move dodging evade so to use it right 120 is just too small radios to be effective healing skill (maybe its good in wvw)

rev need 1 more break stun so maybe with protective solace give it longer cd and also make it water field and when you finish it (diminish sloace) it will be blast finisher

i always had trouble even in 1v1 against high cc enemy like engi thief and warrior (direct dmg not condi)
also vengeful hammers should have better dmg and healing with break stun as well

also i dont like fragments as its only in as bunker 1v1 not as healer. but this is me

Run proper traits remove Soothing bastion and get Enhanced Bulwark.
Not that it would be a bad idea giving Ventari a stun break on PE. What you are doing to PS is a no-no though.
If you want to run Ventari for support stop trying to frontline, it’s more efficient to heal others than yourself. Also take some outgoing healing traits, runes and sigils.
Another note don’t use hammer you give up too much support and sustain for a negligible damage. (This part you did correctly in your build)

care to explain your ideas?
with dwarf you got stability just need to time it right. so even with EH it can be rip off with necro or thief leaving you vulnerable to cc without much break stun

PS is nice idea for healing on point . as rev not always need to be on range. if so he will be targeted and going down fast with no escape means. so to be bunkery is sometimes needed

messiah.1908:

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

i dont think the amount of healing is the problem. on paper the ventary has good healing burst abilities which all are aoe

ventary will should be 240 r and not 120. i notice in team fight ppl move dodging evade so to use it right 120 is just too small radios to be effective healing skill (maybe its good in wvw)

rev need 1 more break stun so maybe with protective solace give it longer cd and also make it water field and when you finish it (diminish sloace) it will be blast finisher

i always had trouble even in 1v1 against high cc enemy like engi thief and warrior (direct dmg not condi)
also vengeful hammers should have better dmg and healing with break stun as well

also i dont like fragments as its only in as bunker 1v1 not as healer. but this is me

Run proper traits remove Soothing bastion and get Enhanced Bulwark.
Not that it would be a bad idea giving Ventari a stun break on PE. What you are doing to PS is a no-no though.
If you want to run Ventari for support stop trying to frontline, it’s more efficient to heal others than yourself. Also take some outgoing healing traits, runes and sigils.
Another note don’t use hammer you give up too much support and sustain for a negligible damage. (This part you did correctly in your build)

care to explain your ideas?
with dwarf you got stability just need to time it right. so even with EH it can be rip off with necro or thief leaving you vulnerable to cc without much break stun

PS is nice idea for healing on point . as rev not always need to be on range. if so he will be targeted and going down fast with no escape means. so to be bunkery is sometimes needed

If you analyze the skills properly you’ll notice that the skills that heal and sustain yourself well are different from those that sustain others well and they are mutually exclusive because of energy limitations.
Therefore avoid having to sustain yourself in the first place and spend most of your energy on supporting others. Having large access to outgoing healing also favors this tactic.

That does not mean that you should never bunker or get close to your opponents to pressure them it’s just that you have to know when to do so.

Also Soothing bastion is terrible, it’s an autoproc that roots you therefore making you more vulnerable against competent opponents, it also interrupts your actions be it whatever you might have wanted to do. It’s usually used by newcomers that can’t use the available defenses properly and it only works in low tier matches.

The extra stability stack is far more useful in pretty much any case.

BTW if you look at the original interviews this is even the way they intended Ventari to work but it only started working because of the last set of buffs. The reward for it still isn’t enough but it’s usable.

My request for buffs is because I know that this tactic can be countered once other players are aware of it and right now you can only outperform auramancers slightly while in that ideal state. Therefore you need to either increase the time you are able to stay in that ideal state or increase the reward for being in that state.

Also everything I said applies specifically if you intend to use Ventari to replace an auramancer in support. There is a bunker/decap build that was made by Rym this season and that obviously plays very differently, don’t expect to keep anyone else alive though.

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

i dont think the amount of healing is the problem. on paper the ventary has good healing burst abilities which all are aoe

ventary will should be 240 r and not 120. i notice in team fight ppl move dodging evade so to use it right 120 is just too small radios to be effective healing skill (maybe its good in wvw)

rev need 1 more break stun so maybe with protective solace give it longer cd and also make it water field and when you finish it (diminish sloace) it will be blast finisher

i always had trouble even in 1v1 against high cc enemy like engi thief and warrior (direct dmg not condi)
also vengeful hammers should have better dmg and healing with break stun as well

also i dont like fragments as its only in as bunker 1v1 not as healer. but this is me

Run proper traits remove Soothing bastion and get Enhanced Bulwark.
Not that it would be a bad idea giving Ventari a stun break on PE. What you are doing to PS is a no-no though.
If you want to run Ventari for support stop trying to frontline, it’s more efficient to heal others than yourself. Also take some outgoing healing traits, runes and sigils.
Another note don’t use hammer you give up too much support and sustain for a negligible damage. (This part you did correctly in your build)

care to explain your ideas?
with dwarf you got stability just need to time it right. so even with EH it can be rip off with necro or thief leaving you vulnerable to cc without much break stun

PS is nice idea for healing on point . as rev not always need to be on range. if so he will be targeted and going down fast with no escape means. so to be bunkery is sometimes needed

If you analyze the skills properly you’ll notice that the skills that heal and sustain yourself well are different from those that sustain others well and they are mutually exclusive because of energy limitations.
Therefore avoid having to sustain yourself in the first place and spend most of your energy on supporting others. Having large access to outgoing healing also favors this tactic.

That does not mean that you should never bunker or get close to your opponents to pressure them it’s just that you have to know when to do so.

Also Soothing bastion is terrible, it’s an autoproc that roots you therefore making you more vulnerable against competent opponents, it also interrupts your actions be it whatever you might have wanted to do. It’s usually used by newcomers that can’t use the available defenses properly and it only works in low tier matches.

The extra stability stack is far more useful in pretty much any case.

BTW if you look at the original interviews this is even the way they intended Ventari to work but it only started working because of the last set of buffs. The reward for it still isn’t enough but it’s usable.

My request for buffs is because I know that this tactic can be countered once other players are aware of it and right now you can only outperform auramancers slightly while in that ideal state. Therefore you need to either increase the time you are able to stay in that ideal state or increase the reward for being in that state.

Also everything I said applies specifically if you intend to use Ventari to replace an auramancer in support. There is a bunker/decap build that was made by Rym this season and that obviously plays very differently, don’t expect to keep anyone else alive though.

but favor healing others over self sustain will result in you being focused by thief and getting killed in 5 sec thus you must mixed them. no one will let you heal freely from range once they see your tablet out.

i know the SB cancel your actions thus i know when it gonna procs so using it twice yield me 10k healing . only problem is shadow sot from a thief which is unblockable.

messiah.1908:

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

i dont think the amount of healing is the problem. on paper the ventary has good healing burst abilities which all are aoe

ventary will should be 240 r and not 120. i notice in team fight ppl move dodging evade so to use it right 120 is just too small radios to be effective healing skill (maybe its good in wvw)

rev need 1 more break stun so maybe with protective solace give it longer cd and also make it water field and when you finish it (diminish sloace) it will be blast finisher

i always had trouble even in 1v1 against high cc enemy like engi thief and warrior (direct dmg not condi)
also vengeful hammers should have better dmg and healing with break stun as well

also i dont like fragments as its only in as bunker 1v1 not as healer. but this is me

Run proper traits remove Soothing bastion and get Enhanced Bulwark.
Not that it would be a bad idea giving Ventari a stun break on PE. What you are doing to PS is a no-no though.
If you want to run Ventari for support stop trying to frontline, it’s more efficient to heal others than yourself. Also take some outgoing healing traits, runes and sigils.
Another note don’t use hammer you give up too much support and sustain for a negligible damage. (This part you did correctly in your build)

care to explain your ideas?
with dwarf you got stability just need to time it right. so even with EH it can be rip off with necro or thief leaving you vulnerable to cc without much break stun

PS is nice idea for healing on point . as rev not always need to be on range. if so he will be targeted and going down fast with no escape means. so to be bunkery is sometimes needed

If you analyze the skills properly you’ll notice that the skills that heal and sustain yourself well are different from those that sustain others well and they are mutually exclusive because of energy limitations.
Therefore avoid having to sustain yourself in the first place and spend most of your energy on supporting others. Having large access to outgoing healing also favors this tactic.

That does not mean that you should never bunker or get close to your opponents to pressure them it’s just that you have to know when to do so.

Also Soothing bastion is terrible, it’s an autoproc that roots you therefore making you more vulnerable against competent opponents, it also interrupts your actions be it whatever you might have wanted to do. It’s usually used by newcomers that can’t use the available defenses properly and it only works in low tier matches.

The extra stability stack is far more useful in pretty much any case.

BTW if you look at the original interviews this is even the way they intended Ventari to work but it only started working because of the last set of buffs. The reward for it still isn’t enough but it’s usable.

My request for buffs is because I know that this tactic can be countered once other players are aware of it and right now you can only outperform auramancers slightly while in that ideal state. Therefore you need to either increase the time you are able to stay in that ideal state or increase the reward for being in that state.

Also everything I said applies specifically if you intend to use Ventari to replace an auramancer in support. There is a bunker/decap build that was made by Rym this season and that obviously plays very differently, don’t expect to keep anyone else alive though.

but favor healing others over self sustain will result in you being focused by thief and getting killed in 5 sec thus you must mixed them. no one will let you heal freely from range once they see your tablet out.

i know the SB cancel your actions thus i know when it gonna procs so using it twice yield me 10k healing . only problem is shadow sot from a thief which is unblockable.

No thief can burst you down alone… If you play correctly. Also facetanking thief AA is a no-no try to kite them after all tablet usage doesn’t interfere with your mobility…
And I never said that you would permanently be able to keep this condition I specifically said that you won’t. Your job is to maximize the time you are able to stay in that ideal state through smart positioning. Also there is a dodge button, use it.

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

i dont think the amount of healing is the problem. on paper the ventary has good healing burst abilities which all are aoe

ventary will should be 240 r and not 120. i notice in team fight ppl move dodging evade so to use it right 120 is just too small radios to be effective healing skill (maybe its good in wvw)

rev need 1 more break stun so maybe with protective solace give it longer cd and also make it water field and when you finish it (diminish sloace) it will be blast finisher

i always had trouble even in 1v1 against high cc enemy like engi thief and warrior (direct dmg not condi)
also vengeful hammers should have better dmg and healing with break stun as well

also i dont like fragments as its only in as bunker 1v1 not as healer. but this is me

Run proper traits remove Soothing bastion and get Enhanced Bulwark.
Not that it would be a bad idea giving Ventari a stun break on PE. What you are doing to PS is a no-no though.
If you want to run Ventari for support stop trying to frontline, it’s more efficient to heal others than yourself. Also take some outgoing healing traits, runes and sigils.
Another note don’t use hammer you give up too much support and sustain for a negligible damage. (This part you did correctly in your build)

care to explain your ideas?
with dwarf you got stability just need to time it right. so even with EH it can be rip off with necro or thief leaving you vulnerable to cc without much break stun

PS is nice idea for healing on point . as rev not always need to be on range. if so he will be targeted and going down fast with no escape means. so to be bunkery is sometimes needed

If you analyze the skills properly you’ll notice that the skills that heal and sustain yourself well are different from those that sustain others well and they are mutually exclusive because of energy limitations.
Therefore avoid having to sustain yourself in the first place and spend most of your energy on supporting others. Having large access to outgoing healing also favors this tactic.

That does not mean that you should never bunker or get close to your opponents to pressure them it’s just that you have to know when to do so.

Also Soothing bastion is terrible, it’s an autoproc that roots you therefore making you more vulnerable against competent opponents, it also interrupts your actions be it whatever you might have wanted to do. It’s usually used by newcomers that can’t use the available defenses properly and it only works in low tier matches.

The extra stability stack is far more useful in pretty much any case.

BTW if you look at the original interviews this is even the way they intended Ventari to work but it only started working because of the last set of buffs. The reward for it still isn’t enough but it’s usable.

My request for buffs is because I know that this tactic can be countered once other players are aware of it and right now you can only outperform auramancers slightly while in that ideal state. Therefore you need to either increase the time you are able to stay in that ideal state or increase the reward for being in that state.

Also everything I said applies specifically if you intend to use Ventari to replace an auramancer in support. There is a bunker/decap build that was made by Rym this season and that obviously plays very differently, don’t expect to keep anyone else alive though.

but favor healing others over self sustain will result in you being focused by thief and getting killed in 5 sec thus you must mixed them. no one will let you heal freely from range once they see your tablet out.

i know the SB cancel your actions thus i know when it gonna procs so using it twice yield me 10k healing . only problem is shadow sot from a thief which is unblockable.

No thief can burst you down alone… If you play correctly. Also facetanking thief AA is a no-no try to kite them after all tablet usage doesn’t interfere with your mobility…
And I never said that you would permanently be able to keep this condition I specifically said that you won’t. Your job is to maximize the time you are able to stay in that ideal state through smart positioning. Also there is a dodge button, use it.

i would love if you can post a vid 1v1 a thief on a point . after 2 dodges, block from staff, and shield proc, couple of interrupt steal combo and you will be pressured hard so i wanna see how you manage to use the tablet to heal your party while trying to stay alive.
sure ele can take same pressure aswel but he got better sustain as your tablet will be in range

messiah.1908:

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

Varezenem.2813:

messiah.1908:

i dont think the amount of healing is the problem. on paper the ventary has good healing burst abilities which all are aoe

ventary will should be 240 r and not 120. i notice in team fight ppl move dodging evade so to use it right 120 is just too small radios to be effective healing skill (maybe its good in wvw)

rev need 1 more break stun so maybe with protective solace give it longer cd and also make it water field and when you finish it (diminish sloace) it will be blast finisher

i always had trouble even in 1v1 against high cc enemy like engi thief and warrior (direct dmg not condi)
also vengeful hammers should have better dmg and healing with break stun as well

also i dont like fragments as its only in as bunker 1v1 not as healer. but this is me

Run proper traits remove Soothing bastion and get Enhanced Bulwark.
Not that it would be a bad idea giving Ventari a stun break on PE. What you are doing to PS is a no-no though.
If you want to run Ventari for support stop trying to frontline, it’s more efficient to heal others than yourself. Also take some outgoing healing traits, runes and sigils.
Another note don’t use hammer you give up too much support and sustain for a negligible damage. (This part you did correctly in your build)

care to explain your ideas?
with dwarf you got stability just need to time it right. so even with EH it can be rip off with necro or thief leaving you vulnerable to cc without much break stun

PS is nice idea for healing on point . as rev not always need to be on range. if so he will be targeted and going down fast with no escape means. so to be bunkery is sometimes needed

If you analyze the skills properly you’ll notice that the skills that heal and sustain yourself well are different from those that sustain others well and they are mutually exclusive because of energy limitations.
Therefore avoid having to sustain yourself in the first place and spend most of your energy on supporting others. Having large access to outgoing healing also favors this tactic.

That does not mean that you should never bunker or get close to your opponents to pressure them it’s just that you have to know when to do so.

Also Soothing bastion is terrible, it’s an autoproc that roots you therefore making you more vulnerable against competent opponents, it also interrupts your actions be it whatever you might have wanted to do. It’s usually used by newcomers that can’t use the available defenses properly and it only works in low tier matches.

The extra stability stack is far more useful in pretty much any case.

BTW if you look at the original interviews this is even the way they intended Ventari to work but it only started working because of the last set of buffs. The reward for it still isn’t enough but it’s usable.

My request for buffs is because I know that this tactic can be countered once other players are aware of it and right now you can only outperform auramancers slightly while in that ideal state. Therefore you need to either increase the time you are able to stay in that ideal state or increase the reward for being in that state.

Also everything I said applies specifically if you intend to use Ventari to replace an auramancer in support. There is a bunker/decap build that was made by Rym this season and that obviously plays very differently, don’t expect to keep anyone else alive though.

but favor healing others over self sustain will result in you being focused by thief and getting killed in 5 sec thus you must mixed them. no one will let you heal freely from range once they see your tablet out.

i know the SB cancel your actions thus i know when it gonna procs so using it twice yield me 10k healing . only problem is shadow sot from a thief which is unblockable.

No thief can burst you down alone… If you play correctly. Also facetanking thief AA is a no-no try to kite them after all tablet usage doesn’t interfere with your mobility…
And I never said that you would permanently be able to keep this condition I specifically said that you won’t. Your job is to maximize the time you are able to stay in that ideal state through smart positioning. Also there is a dodge button, use it.

i would love if you can post a vid 1v1 a thief on a point . after 2 dodges, block from staff, and shield proc, couple of interrupt steal combo and you will be pressured hard so i wanna see how you manage to use the tablet to heal your party while trying to stay alive.
sure ele can take same pressure aswel but he got better sustain as your tablet will be in range

Actually against anything but condi a Ventari rev has a better sustain than a Auramancer what happens is that your support is impaired a lot more while you try to sustain yourself. After all you have more armor, damage reductions, active defenses, HP and CC defense.

A thief in a 1v1 shouldn’t pose a problem, you won’t be able to handle 1vX against competent opponents for a long time so it’s usually better to run and if you actually mean standing on a point in a group fight I ask you why? Like I said it’s more efficient to keep your allies alive on point than yourself.

Also it’s impossible to record a video in the potato that I’m currently using. If you are on NA I can show that to you in practice.

And since this is getting really out of topic it’s better if we continue this in PM.

I advise lowering damage on AA and boosting damage on other skills. Also making them utilise and preserve energy the more balanced way.

This class has insane fun potential but its not done imo, rather its in broken paralysed state.

Here is some of my suggestions.

Change Forced Engagement to affect 5 enemy. It takes too much energy for just one foe and would be more useful.

Vengeful Hammers to inflict weakness and maybe heal more.

Change energy to be like Initiative and traits to give energy on critical hit etc.

TokyoGhost.6492:

I advise lowering damage on AA and boosting damage on other skills. Also making them utilise and preserve energy the more balanced way.

This class has insane fun potential but its not done imo, rather its in broken paralysed state.

We’ve already had our AA nerfed before. We don’t need another one on top of it. I honestly think the skill damage is fine (though Anet might disagree seeing that Staff 5 lost a bit of its bite and they increased Precision Strike’s cooldown/decreased its effective range), but the energy issues are from both weapon skills and utilities being tied to it.

Remove the energy cost from weapon skills and let them be cooldown oriented instead of CD+Energy and people wont be as inclined to spam AA over skills.

Euthymias.7984:

TokyoGhost.6492:

I advise lowering damage on AA and boosting damage on other skills. Also making them utilise and preserve energy the more balanced way.

This class has insane fun potential but its not done imo, rather its in broken paralysed state.

We’ve already had our AA nerfed before. We don’t need another one on top of it. I honestly think the skill damage is fine (though Anet might disagree seeing that Staff 5 lost a bit of its bite and they increased Precision Strike’s cooldown/decreased its effective range), but the energy issues are from both weapon skills and utilities being tied to it.

Remove the energy cost from weapon skills and let them be cooldown oriented instead of CD+Energy and people wont be as inclined to spam AA over skills.

Many skills are dps loss. Theres no reason to cast sword 3 for example as it is not affected by quickness+it bounce off random kitten around your target so its actually a huge dps loss vs target, same goes to strike.

Burtnik.5218:

Many skills are dps loss. Theres no reason to cast sword 3 for example as it is not affected by quickness+it bounce off random kitten around your target so its actually a huge dps loss vs target, same goes to strike.

Yes, those are definitely DPS losses since they’re affected by multiple targets being present (or Sword 2 just going after objects…ugh). I still think that nerfing the AA isn’t necessary to fix them so much as just adjusting those skills to work better against single targets (as sword skills were intended to “single out enemies”) and to remove their energy costs so they’re an option off of cooldown without the detriment of energy loss when elites/utilities already drain it.

If Precision Strike only focused on whatever you’re targeting and UA only concentrated its bounces about on a single foe, then they would be better without having to buff their damage dealt.

Edit: The quickness thing also affects Mace AA 3, right? How quickness works on these attacks needs to be looked at in general. They really should at least make skill bug-fixes independent of balance patches.

Euthymias.7984:

Burtnik.5218:

Many skills are dps loss. Theres no reason to cast sword 3 for example as it is not affected by quickness+it bounce off random kitten around your target so its actually a huge dps loss vs target, same goes to strike.

Yes, those are definitely DPS losses since they’re affected by multiple targets being present (or Sword 2 just going after objects…ugh). I still think that nerfing the AA isn’t necessary to fix them so much as just adjusting those skills to work better against single targets (as sword skills were intended to “single out enemies”) and to remove their energy costs so they’re an option off of cooldown without the detriment of energy loss when elites/utilities already drain it.

If Precision Strike only focused on whatever you’re targeting and UA only concentrated its bounces about on a single foe, then they would be better without having to buff their damage dealt.

Edit: The quickness thing also affects Mace AA 3, right? How quickness works on these attacks needs to be looked at in general. They really should at least make skill bug-fixes independent of balance patches.

Seems like they should buff 3rd sword (Unrelenting Assault) a lot to cover dps loss over animation or make it affected by quickness?

TokyoGhost.6492:

Euthymias.7984:

Burtnik.5218:

Many skills are dps loss. Theres no reason to cast sword 3 for example as it is not affected by quickness+it bounce off random kitten around your target so its actually a huge dps loss vs target, same goes to strike.

Yes, those are definitely DPS losses since they’re affected by multiple targets being present (or Sword 2 just going after objects…ugh). I still think that nerfing the AA isn’t necessary to fix them so much as just adjusting those skills to work better against single targets (as sword skills were intended to “single out enemies”) and to remove their energy costs so they’re an option off of cooldown without the detriment of energy loss when elites/utilities already drain it.

If Precision Strike only focused on whatever you’re targeting and UA only concentrated its bounces about on a single foe, then they would be better without having to buff their damage dealt.

Edit: The quickness thing also affects Mace AA 3, right? How quickness works on these attacks needs to be looked at in general. They really should at least make skill bug-fixes independent of balance patches.

Seems like they should buff 3rd sword (Unrelenting Assault) a lot to cover dps loss over animation or make it affected by quickness?

Spread damage to all targets in 300 radius (and reduce the radius to 300 as well) which means if you hit someone for 2k, everyone else in radius gets hit for 2k as well (or make it single target skill). Make it so quickness/slow will affect it without bugging out and fix it bugged damage cause it uses damage of base white sword.

Fix UA to not proc confusion multiple times and not break on stealth.. and it will be in a good spot.

Buffing damage is not an option unless they have tech to something like “gain +50% damage under quickness” but it would be broken with quickness on demand.

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else have any alternate proposals for Momentary Pacification?

I have some ideas such as giving the revenant profession some more weapon variaty such as allowing them to wield greatswords or dual wield two maces or dual wield two axes i mean they can dual wield swords why not maces and axes like i just said. I like to see what you can do with that with awesome melee greatsword skills.

Ryanbossxx.1824:

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else have any alternate proposals for Momentary Pacification?

I have some ideas such as giving the revenant profession some more weapon variaty such as allowing them to wield greatswords or dual wield two maces or dual wield two axes i mean they can dual wield swords why not maces and axes like i just said. I like to see what you can do with that with awesome melee greatsword skills.

Its the same reason Rangers don’t Dual Wield Swords or Daggers despite being able to MH/OH one or the other.
Wouldn’t expect a new weapon (possibly with a legend/spec) till the next expansion, though.