Guild Wars 2

Arent the condi weapons still torment based?

Sounds like it’s our highest dps build, but it’s very greedy and doesn’t do nearly as much damage as dedicated dps builds from other classes.

I’m hoping this is just early testing and someone will figure something else out, but it looks like it’s fine, just not great.

Ahhh disappointing.

Actually the condi rest thread claims it does better then glint in raids when you take jails to.

29.5k with potential for a better rotation or tighter rotation on a stationary target isn’t bad at all. A mobile target would be the same or better.

You can take glint for extra support and stuff but Its at least a 2k dps drop i’m pretty sure.

Rev still has really good CC even with it’s selfish dev/invo/corrupt mallyx/jalis spec

RedDeadFred.1256:

Sounds like it’s our highest dps build, but it’s very greedy and doesn’t do nearly as much damage as dedicated dps builds from other classes.

I’m hoping this is just early testing and someone will figure something else out, but it looks like it’s fine, just not great.

I disagree with it being greedy. Using dev/cor/inv means you have Assassin’s Presence for 10% crit damage aura, and you naturally stack might through your rotation.

Amiron.1067:

RedDeadFred.1256:

Sounds like it’s our highest dps build, but it’s very greedy and doesn’t do nearly as much damage as dedicated dps builds from other classes.

I’m hoping this is just early testing and someone will figure something else out, but it looks like it’s fine, just not great.

I disagree with it being greedy. Using dev/cor/inv means you have Assassin’s Presence for 10% crit damage aura, and you naturally stack might through your rotation.

So on par with condi ps or no? peeps saying the area might not reliable enough to count on? I am hoping Rev makes a comeback!

Joxer.6024:

Amiron.1067:

RedDeadFred.1256:

Sounds like it’s our highest dps build, but it’s very greedy and doesn’t do nearly as much damage as dedicated dps builds from other classes.

I’m hoping this is just early testing and someone will figure something else out, but it looks like it’s fine, just not great.

I disagree with it being greedy. Using dev/cor/inv means you have Assassin’s Presence for 10% crit damage aura, and you naturally stack might through your rotation.

Does it even make that much of a difference? All that should matter is if the gap is small enough to use over the meta.
So on par with condi ps or no? peeps saying the area might not reliable enough to count on? I am hoping Rev makes a comeback!

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

Blue.1207:

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

Hes right you know.

Blue.1207:

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

A condi rev can offer more then just dps.

Ryou.2398:

Blue.1207:

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

A condi rev can offer more then just dps.

True, however other classes do too and do it better as well.

Omega Zoa.3859:

Ryou.2398:

Blue.1207:

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

A condi rev can offer more then just dps.

True, however other classes do too and do it better as well.

I disagree revs are more versatile then that.

Ryou.2398:

Omega Zoa.3859:

Ryou.2398:

Blue.1207:

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

A condi rev can offer more then just dps.

True, however other classes do too and do it better as well.

I disagree revs are more versatile then that.

Condi Rev going for dps is taking Mallyx/Jalis (Corr/Dev/Invo) tho, so aside from breaking bars and providing the not-good-in-raids group resistance, what utility do they have?

narcx.3570:

Ryou.2398:

Omega Zoa.3859:

Ryou.2398:

Blue.1207:

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

A condi rev can offer more then just dps.

True, however other classes do too and do it better as well.

I disagree revs are more versatile then that.

Condi Rev going for dps is taking Mallyx/Jalis (Corr/Dev/Invo) tho, so aside from breaking bars and providing the not-good-in-raids group resistance, what utility do they have?

Lol stop following the meta so much and you will see.

Ryou.2398:

narcx.3570:

Ryou.2398:

Omega Zoa.3859:

Ryou.2398:

Blue.1207:

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

A condi rev can offer more then just dps.

True, however other classes do too and do it better as well.

I disagree revs are more versatile then that.

Condi Rev going for dps is taking Mallyx/Jalis (Corr/Dev/Invo) tho, so aside from breaking bars and providing the not-good-in-raids group resistance, what utility do they have?

Lol stop following the meta so much and you will see.

Okay, so you go Glint for utility, great…!

Now your dps is even lower, but at least you’re providing protection (nobody wants), fury (druid’s already doing this), and boon duration (incase your chrono was lying about his gear being capped.)

narcx.3570:

Ryou.2398:

narcx.3570:

Ryou.2398:

Omega Zoa.3859:

Ryou.2398:

Blue.1207:

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

A condi rev can offer more then just dps.

True, however other classes do too and do it better as well.

I disagree revs are more versatile then that.

Condi Rev going for dps is taking Mallyx/Jalis (Corr/Dev/Invo) tho, so aside from breaking bars and providing the not-good-in-raids group resistance, what utility do they have?

Lol stop following the meta so much and you will see.

Okay, so you go Glint for utility, great…!

Now your dps is even lower, but at least you’re providing protection (nobody wants), fury (druid’s already doing this), and boon duration (incase your chrono was lying about his gear being capped.)

Yes clearly nobody wants 33% DR, or for the druid to focus more on healing than upkeeping Fury, or for the Chronotank having more time to focus on what DPS it can slightly add or ensuring their timing is good rather than making sure boons stay up.

Revs provide boons, CC, and now more damage with Condi.

As the person previously stated, ignore the meta speed run and actually try things.

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Yes clearly nobody wants 33% DR, or for the druid to focus more on healing than upkeeping Fury, or for the Chronotank having more time to focus on what DPS it can slightly add or ensuring their timing is good rather than making sure boons stay up.

Revs provide boons, CC, and now more damage with Condi.

As the person previously stated, ignore the meta speed run and actually try things.

- They really don’t… Nobody cares about getting protection in raids, and even if they somehow really want protection, one of the druids can just run stone spirit instead of replacing a top dps slot.
- If a druid can’t press f2 every once in a while (can even be while they’re casting other skills), you don’t want them in your raid.
- Giving 33% extra duration doesn’t let the chrono “dps more,” since they should already be capped at 100%… It’s just useful if the chrono isn’t wearing correct gear, which once again, you probably don’t want in your raid.

Look, nobody would love to play their Rev in 100% of the raid encounters again more than me, but trying to bluff and beg your way into raid spots with a much inferior class isn’t what this game is all about. And while it’s easy to scoff at the people who follow the meta like blind idiots, the game has made it so ridiculously easy to swap classes via sharable ascended gear/infinite free Tomes of Knowledge, it’s sort of silly not to.

Ryou.2398:

narcx.3570:

Ryou.2398:

Omega Zoa.3859:

Ryou.2398:

Blue.1207:

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

A condi rev can offer more then just dps.

True, however other classes do too and do it better as well.

I disagree revs are more versatile then that.

Condi Rev going for dps is taking Mallyx/Jalis (Corr/Dev/Invo) tho, so aside from breaking bars and providing the not-good-in-raids group resistance, what utility do they have?

Lol stop following the meta so much and you will see.

The only reason you’re here right now is because you’re “following” the meta. If you’re not following the meta then there is little reason to concern yourself with performance of said class, you;d just be out there playing it.

Point being, there are higher dps classes that are more in demand and currently played. On that reason alone there is no reason to take a condi rev in a raid.

narcx.3570:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Yes clearly nobody wants 33% DR, or for the druid to focus more on healing than upkeeping Fury, or for the Chronotank having more time to focus on what DPS it can slightly add or ensuring their timing is good rather than making sure boons stay up.

Revs provide boons, CC, and now more damage with Condi.

As the person previously stated, ignore the meta speed run and actually try things.

- They really don’t… Nobody cares about getting protection in raids, and even if they somehow really want protection, one of the druids can just run stone spirit instead of replacing a top dps slot.
- If a druid can’t press f2 every once in a while (can even be while they’re casting other skills), you don’t want them in your raid.
- Giving 33% extra duration doesn’t let the chrono “dps more,” since they should already be capped at 100%… It’s just useful if the chrono isn’t wearing correct gear, which once again, you probably don’t want in your raid.

Look, nobody would love to play their Rev in 100% of the raid encounters again more than me, but trying to bluff and beg your way into raid spots with a much inferior class isn’t what this game is all about. And while it’s easy to scoff at the people who follow the meta like blind idiots, the game has made it so ridiculously easy to swap classes via sharable ascended gear/infinite free Tomes of Knowledge, it’s sort of silly not to.

Druid should be running Frost or Sun spirit, and they may or may not be running Tiger (could be Moa or Wyvern). I’ve ran as Druid quite a few times so I know how easy it is to upkeep as a Druid, but the same thought always in my head – it’d be a lot easier to maintain and focus on healing if I didn’t have to F2 every 10-15 seconds so the party has Fury. Sure it’s not the main or sole provider of Fury, but Rev makes it easier to supply Fury AND Protection AND Regen AND Might at the same with, with the F2 on that making it easier to maintain.

If you don’t want a buff that makes it less work for your healers to maintain your health (especially for squishies), I’m not sure you understand the point of DR.

If you have a Rev, your Chrono doesn’t have to be capped at 100 – Rev makes it easier to maintain buffs. That’s the point.

There is no bluffing or begging. If you encounter a spreadsheet warrior raid group, drop them and get a proper group who aren’t dead weights. I have 3 characters geared for Raids and only my Rev has multiple gear (Hammer Guardian, full heal Druid and Rev with Heal/Condi and Power/Boon duration). You can get groups as a Rev and you can run them yourself.

Rev is in no way inferior, which is what I’m trying to get across to some people here.

Blue.1207:

Ryou.2398:

narcx.3570:

Ryou.2398:

Omega Zoa.3859:

Ryou.2398:

Blue.1207:

New condi ele build topping 50k dps. Condi Rev will NEVER be taken at this point.

A condi rev can offer more then just dps.

True, however other classes do too and do it better as well.

I disagree revs are more versatile then that.

Condi Rev going for dps is taking Mallyx/Jalis (Corr/Dev/Invo) tho, so aside from breaking bars and providing the not-good-in-raids group resistance, what utility do they have?

Lol stop following the meta so much and you will see.

The only reason you’re here right now is because you’re “following” the meta. If you’re not following the meta then there is little reason to concern yourself with performance of said class, you;d just be out there playing it.

Point being, there are higher dps classes that are more in demand and currently played. On that reason alone there is no reason to take a condi rev in a raid.

More in demand IF you follow the meta. If you don’t then it doesn’t matter.

Regen from Herald is bad in raids. Like Chronos have “200% uptime” of regen from running inspiration. And druids have to deal with out regening the Chronos (requires boon duration gear) in order for their regen to bypass the Chronos. The benchmark to beat is 10 seconds or longer of regen. Since the herald facet is only 4 seconds, it’s impossible for a Herald’s regen to matter in raids. They also have the lowest healing power compared to druids/chronos so why bother?

Warhorn for druid applies both regen and fury so even if I’m not running a tiger, fury is covered. FGJ from warrior is also ~40% fury uptime. Once a chrono has fury, they can basically supply perma fury with double SoI. It’s really not that big of a deal. Protection is in a similar situation with double SoI although not 100%. Both condi and power tempests should be bringing this trait:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies
which improves all boon time to the group and applies protection in a completely passive manner. Last thing about protection is that most subgroups are either condi or power. So in reality, you can bring stone spirit with either frost or sun spirit based on your group. Helps a ton if the group is casual. 7% power DPS loss in a condi group compared to a Herald draining their energy on protection instead of DPS…. I would take stone spirit any day and just ask the Rev to focus on DPS.

Frost spirit and druid warhorn are also like 12 stacks minimum of might from a boon duration druid. PS should be able to cover the rest.

TLDR on raid buffs: Have your druids play better and go full DPS condi revenant. Trying to do buff and dps on a Rev is a literal waste of energy and you do neither well once you factor in what the rest of your group is doing.

Ele’s condi DPS drops off a lot in raids for mobile bosses because the fields last a long time and while positioning really matters for condi ele. Condi Rev doesn’t have to care at all about moving bosses as the fire field is super short duration and torment does double damage for moving targets.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6cdg55/condi_revenant_stationary_target_realistic_309k/
The torment is like 11k~ which will double up to 22k on moving bosses so ~40k on moving bosses while other peoples DPS drops. Embrace the DPS and welcome to the club of classes that can DPS on their base class without elite spec power creep. Any future elite spec is now icing on the cake of build diversity.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Regen from Herald is bad in raids. Like Chronos have “200% uptime” of regen from running inspiration. And druids have to deal with out regening the Chronos (requires boon duration gear) in order for their regen to bypass the Chronos. The benchmark to beat is 10 seconds or longer of regen. Since the herald facet is only 4 seconds, it’s impossible for a Herald’s regen to matter in raids. They also have the lowest healing power compared to druids/chronos so why bother?

Warhorn for druid applies both regen and fury so even if I’m not running a tiger, fury is covered. FGJ from warrior is also ~40% fury uptime. Once a chrono has fury, they can basically supply perma fury with double SoI. It’s really not that big of a deal. Protection is in a similar situation with double SoI although not 100%. Both condi and power tempests should be bringing this trait:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies
which improves all boon time to the group and applies protection in a completely passive manner. Last thing about protection is that most subgroups are either condi or power. So in reality, you can bring stone spirit with either frost or sun spirit based on your group. Helps a ton if the group is casual. 7% power DPS loss in a condi group compared to a Herald draining their energy on protection instead of DPS…. I would take stone spirit any day and just ask the Rev to focus on DPS.

Frost spirit and druid warhorn are also like 12 stacks minimum of might from a boon duration druid. PS should be able to cover the rest.

TLDR on raid buffs: Have your druids play better and go full DPS condi revenant. Trying to do buff and dps on a Rev is a literal waste of energy and you do neither well once you factor in what the rest of your group is doing.

Ele’s condi DPS drops off a lot in raids for mobile bosses because the fields last a long time and while positioning really matters for condi ele. Condi Rev doesn’t have to care at all about moving bosses as the fire field is super short duration and torment does double damage for moving targets.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6cdg55/condi_revenant_stationary_target_realistic_309k/
The torment is like 11k~ which will double up to 22k on moving bosses so ~40k on moving bosses while other peoples DPS drops. Embrace the DPS and welcome to the club of classes that can DPS on their base class without elite spec power creep. Any future elite spec is now icing on the cake of build diversity.

It’s not about spreadsheets on whats the best – it’s about making it easier on your Druids. Regen can heal even an tiny insignificant amount – but this can keep somebody alive for just a few seconds more which sometimes makes ALL the difference.

Warhorn for both Druid and Tempest assumes they are both not running Staff (and the timer for switching is how long?). You wouldn’t want to be off Staff too long for Druid unless you were covering with AF.

Not sure why you seem to think Herald would be draining it’s energy providing multiple buffs? Can easily provide 3 buffs alone for Ventari form (Regen, Prot + Alacrity if needed) as well as heals at the same time. Their Protection rate is superior to the Spirit in that it can be constantly applied without worrying about a timer AND they apply Regen AND heal all in one go. If you had a Hammer Guardian in the other subgroup that’s a full 10 party Prot upkeep right there. Ele wouldn’t have to worry about it and go full DPS, Druid can focus easier on healing (because less damage incoming) and not worry so much about Fury.

You can have your Rev build AROUND what everybody else is doing to prove DPS and Support with boons at the same time. Let’s say you have tank go to Green (on split), non-condi majority stay at Blue and 2 maybe 3 at most go to Red for Condi.

Condi Rev would apply boons, staff #5 for CC and DPS support the other Condi(s) making it a lot faster and easier when splitting. It’s all about how you apply your knowledge and be flexible in the situation.

Mallyx Spec is god-tier for Matthias. Gather 80+ stacks f Poison from your allies, puling resisance, and use your grandmaster trait to copy it back to Matthias. Kinda hilarious actually.

Similar logic for Slothasor when he uses his Shake attack, but watch out for evolved slublings.

If you have two Revenants on Slothasor, you can chain Ventari for infinite projectile block. Since it blocks projectiles instead of reflecting, it will work against evolved slublings. (Though correct me if I am wrong!)

Vale Guardian? Keep Construct? Swap your secondary weapon to Staff, and carry the CC! Lel

Xera? Again, Resistance is King here! No more eating 30+ stacks of Confusion! Pop it every time you see her using Blurred Frenzy, then bounce back 120+ stacks back to Xera using your grandmaster trait. Lellllll

Deimos? This is THE Revenant boss!

I’m not saying regen is bad at healing. It’s bad for other classes to apply it if they aren’t your druid. If you overheal people, then the druid doesn’t gain astral force and can’t heal as well. Let your druids apply the regen so that they can charge up CA faster. I also almost exclusively heal training runs as a druid so I’m not talking just spreadsheets here. I hate when other classes try to apply regen when I druid. It is easier for me if you don’t.

Regen, like quickness stacks to a max of 5. What determines who’s regen stacks make up those 5 stacks are duration (not healing power). After duration is decided and 5 stacks of them are in place, then healing power matters. It doesn’t require a spreadsheet to understand how Chrono regen works.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Inspiration
A single phantasms from a 100% boon duration chrono applies 6 seconds of regen every 3 seconds. 3 phantasms is 6 stacks regen which already hits the cap of 5 stacks. At MINIMUM, regen needs to be at least longer than 6 seconds to overwrite the Chrono stacks. Signet of inspiration applies 10 seconds of regen. Ideally the regen is longer than 10 seconds to override both. Ventari can’t even reach 10 seconds. The max duration a Herald can hit is 8 seconds with 100% boon duration. If you are running a Ventari regen build, the max you can hit is 6 seconds. Don’t bother. Literally, don’t bother. No amount of try hard elbow grease is going to override Chrono regen unless your chronos are severely lacking in boon duration.

Basic druid rotation is start with staff 2. Sigil of concentration quickdraw warhorn 5. Go into CA to buff/heal. Leave and cast the second warhorn 5 and back to staff. It’s an easy rotation. I do it all the time in raids. If I can’t bring a warhorn, Fern hound or traited healing springs is plenty of regen. Other classes/rangers can provide the fury while the Chrono shares it. You providing fury doesn’t make the Chrono rotation easier. They still need to cast SoI and 2x SoI is 100% fury uptime if someone else primes them. Tempests don’t worry because the trait is 100% passive. Doesn’t require a warhorn to use it. Stone spirit+SoI leads to basically 100% protection uptime. This isn’t just spreadsheet math. It’s what I see on boon uptime with BDGM.

I’m not denying that Rev/Herald can support. The boon support you are talking about is redundant at best and completely useless/detrimental at worst in raid comps that have a Druid/Chrono in each subgroup. If you are spamming Ventari skills, you aren’t doing the full potential DPS a Rev can do. Kain has it right with how to support on Rev. Embrace the unique stuff that only Condi Rev can do.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

I’m not saying regen is bad at healing. It’s bad for other classes to apply it if they aren’t your druid. If you overheal people, then the druid doesn’t gain astral force and can’t heal as well. Let your druids apply the regen so that they can charge up CA faster. I also almost exclusively heal training runs as a druid so I’m not talking just spreadsheets here. I hate when other classes try to apply regen when I druid. It is easier for me if you don’t.

Regen, like quickness stacks to a max of 5. What determines who’s regen stacks make up those 5 stacks are duration (not healing power). After duration is decided and 5 stacks of them are in place, then healing power matters. It doesn’t require a spreadsheet to understand how Chrono regen works.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Inspiration
A single phantasms from a 100% boon duration chrono applies 6 seconds of regen every 3 seconds. 3 phantasms is 6 stacks regen which already hits the cap of 5 stacks. At MINIMUM, regen needs to be at least longer than 6 seconds to overwrite the Chrono stacks. Signet of inspiration applies 10 seconds of regen. Ideally the regen is longer than 10 seconds to override both. Ventari can’t even reach 10 seconds. The max duration a Herald can hit is 8 seconds with 100% boon duration. If you are running a Ventari regen build, the max you can hit is 6 seconds. Don’t bother. Literally, don’t bother. No amount of try hard elbow grease is going to override Chrono regen unless your chronos are severely lacking in boon duration.

Basic druid rotation is start with staff 2. Sigil of concentration quickdraw warhorn 5. Go into CA to buff/heal. Leave and cast the second warhorn 5 and back to staff. It’s an easy rotation. I do it all the time in raids. If I can’t bring a warhorn, Fern hound or traited healing springs is plenty of regen. Other classes/rangers can provide the fury while the Chrono shares it. You providing fury doesn’t make the Chrono rotation easier. They still need to cast SoI and 2x SoI is 100% fury uptime if someone else primes them. Tempests don’t worry because the trait is 100% passive. Doesn’t require a warhorn to use it. Stone spirit+SoI leads to basically 100% protection uptime. This isn’t just spreadsheet math. It’s what I see on boon uptime with BDGM.

I’m not denying that Rev/Herald can support. The boon support you are talking about is redundant at best and completely useless/detrimental at worst in raid comps that have a Druid/Chrono in each subgroup. If you are spamming Ventari skills, you aren’t doing the full potential DPS a Rev can do. Kain has it right with how to support on Rev. Embrace the unique stuff that only Condi Rev can do.

If you are going full Condi then yes, but as pointed out with my example – you can combine boons + Condi easily.

Druids can easily get AF regardless of the regen applied, I’m not sure how you struggle there? I’ve run Druid in raids more than enough times and have never had any sort of problem quickly gaining it back irregardless of other regens?

How often are Chrono’s going to be using SoI? with a 30 second recharge?

Rev can apply it constantly and increase said duration so that Chrono doesn’t actually need to do the regen?

As with my example, you have DPS + 100% Prot with a lot more ease than the spirit plus theres no need to worry about range either.

30 second base. 24 seconds with the trait. 18 second cd with alacrity. There is also the inspiration trait that procs soi on an 18 second cd as well. They double cast soi in cs f5 then 2x out of it. So 4 times with the cs combo then 2x 18-20 seconds after. Repeat 2x again then repeat f5 combo. Over the course of ~75 seconds it’s ~8 soi.

10 seconds of fury and regen and 6 seconds of prot per soi cast. Each phantasm is 6 seconds of regen every 3 seconds. This is not a build focused on any of those boons. It’s for quickness. Those are just side products of a good chrono. Rev boons are literally useless because no reasonable group isn’t going to have a chrono doing this. I’m not saying rev can’t in other situations but in raids, there is zero reason to do it because the chrono can basically solo upkeep if someone primes them.

Traited stone spirit on a magi druid with rune of the monk is 81% protection uptime minimum. Obviously goes higher if they have more boon duration. Yes the spirit dies but again, chrono soi covers the rest.

If regen is applied by someone with high healing power (minstrel chrono) and other people are healing when they shouldn’t be and pressure is low then no, druids won’t build up ca fast because there is nothing to heal. If there is nothing to heal, you can’t go into ca every 8 seconds (alacrity) to buff gotl. I’m not saying I’m unable to heal but dps buffs suffer in uptime.

No you don’t have dps with 100% prot. At least not good dps. Try it on a golem compare out to the 30k of a pure condi rev I just linked. And again, it’s unnecessary with a good chrono and druid.

Kain Francois.4328:

Mallyx Spec is god-tier for Matthias. Gather 80+ stacks f Poison from your allies, puling resisance, and use your grandmaster trait to copy it back to Matthias. Kinda hilarious actually.

I’ve never seen anyone do this, so I gotta ask… Do you have to drop Cleansing Channel, or did anet actually code this intelligently so that Pulsating Pestilence procs before the cleanse when you swap? Because to me, it seems like it’d get cleansed first since PP is a combat only proc, whereas CC isn’t (which usually takes priority)?

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

30 second base. 24 seconds with the trait. 18 second cd with alacrity. There is also the inspiration trait that procs soi on an 18 second cd as well. They double cast soi in cs f5 then 2x out of it. So 4 times with the cs combo then 2x 18-20 seconds after. Repeat 2x again then repeat f5 combo. Over the course of ~75 seconds it’s ~8 soi.

10 seconds of fury and regen and 6 seconds of prot per soi cast. Each phantasm is 6 seconds of regen every 3 seconds. This is not a build focused on any of those boons. It’s for quickness. Those are just side products of a good chrono. Rev boons are literally useless because no reasonable group isn’t going to have a chrono doing this. I’m not saying rev can’t in other situations but in raids, there is zero reason to do it because the chrono can basically solo upkeep if someone primes them.

Traited stone spirit on a magi druid with rune of the monk is 81% protection uptime minimum. Obviously goes higher if they have more boon duration. Yes the spirit dies but again, chrono soi covers the rest.

If regen is applied by someone with high healing power (minstrel chrono) and other people are healing when they shouldn’t be and pressure is low then no, druids won’t build up ca fast because there is nothing to heal. If there is nothing to heal, you can’t go into ca every 8 seconds (alacrity) to buff gotl. I’m not saying I’m unable to heal but dps buffs suffer in uptime.

No you don’t have dps with 100% prot. At least not good dps. Try it on a golem compare out to the 30k of a pure condi rev I just linked. And again, it’s unnecessary with a good chrono and druid.

And if they aren’t primed, then it’s not as good. Whereas Rev, doesn’t need the priming.

Why would you trait for Stone spirit + Prot when you can have a Rev do heals + Prot + Alacrity with a Hammer Guard giving full Prot 100% of the time and the extra DPS of Guardian? I think that’s where you might be getting confused. I never stated 100% Prot with Condi Rev – just that Condi Rev can provide boons + damage at the same time for the Condi team at Red for VG for example.

Revs do need priming. Entire raid groups need priming to reach their max potential. The ranger/druid, chrono, warrior combo is really freaking good at priming the entire raid groups damage.

If you are talking about hammer DH, that’s replacing one of the two DPS slots.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6ch3ot/qt_updated_benchmarks_for_all_classes_may_16_2017/
Hammer guard is at ~24k.
Condi Rev is at ~31k and would go higher with moving targets.
Condi reaper, ranger, thief, engi and tempest are in the 33-40k range.
The better question is why replace one of those DPS classes for a hammer guard when the druid can swap to stone spirit? Swapping frost to stone is losing 7% power damage but most of the condi builds… do mostly condi damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWthrLV0sts&feature=youtu.be
For reference, about 78% of the damage done is burning for condi ele. 7% power buff isn’t much there.

If you are taking Rev, what are you replacing? The chrono that already provides alacrity? The protection from stone spirit? The tiger/warhorn? The might/fury generation of a warrior? If you replace one of those classes, your group DPS drops off like crazy. Like entire sub squad loses 20-40% damage. Realistically, you are replacing one of the two DPS slots. Don’t try to replace those 3 support classes.

Condi rev… with salvation and herald traited so that they can heal, perma prot and alacrity isn’t doing the 31k DPS of a focused condi dps rev. Not even close. If the only place your example is viable is Red at VG, that’s a really weak argument because that split is easy for 2 pure condi dps to kill red before 8 people kill the other two.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Revs do need priming. Entire raid groups need priming to reach their max potential. The ranger/druid, chrono, warrior combo is really freaking good at priming the entire raid groups damage.

If you are talking about hammer DH, that’s replacing one of the two DPS slots.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6ch3ot/qt_updated_benchmarks_for_all_classes_may_16_2017/
Hammer guard is at ~24k.
Condi Rev is at ~31k and would go higher with moving targets.
Condi reaper, ranger, thief, engi and tempest are in the 33-40k range.
The better question is why replace one of those DPS classes for a hammer guard when the druid can swap to stone spirit? Swapping frost to stone is losing 7% power damage but most of the condi builds… do mostly condi damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWthrLV0sts&feature=youtu.be
For reference, about 78% of the damage done is burning for condi ele. 7% power buff isn’t much there.

If you are taking Rev, what are you replacing? The chrono that already provides alacrity? The protection from stone spirit? The tiger/warhorn? The might/fury generation of a warrior? If you replace one of those classes, your group DPS drops off like crazy. Like entire sub squad loses 20-40% damage. Realistically, you are replacing one of the two DPS slots. Don’t try to replace those 3 support classes.

Condi rev… with salvation and herald traited so that they can heal, perma prot and alacrity isn’t doing the 31k DPS of a focused condi dps rev. Not even close. If the only place your example is viable is Red at VG, that’s a really weak argument because that split is easy for 2 pure condi dps to kill red before 8 people kill the other two.

Ok so first off – I do not follow QT meta nor do I go by other peoples work, nor am I a spreadsheet warrior so their benchmarking is irrelevant to me.

Second – in their own words, they have not even bothered testing Hammer Guard nor Power Rev. In the previous meta, they even stated they did not test Condi Rev. People are taking their word as law and not even bothering to test for themselves, when they aren’t even testing all the variables?

Thirdly – they even state to not take their word as bible. “You don’t need maximum DPS to complete”.

When facing quite a few of the raid bosses, Power is still favoured over Condi so if you drop Frost then you are losing that DPS. Keep it and use Hammer Guard then you have Prot + DPS at the same time with 0 cost.

Rev replaces whatever is needed, it’s a flex-pick when done correctly. It can do Power, Condi or Support. Doesn’t matter which.

Again you are really getting confused so i’ll bold it for you:

I am not talking about mixing Condi AND support AT the same time

I’m talking about (at Red VG for example) you having Herald with boon support on a Condi build (full Vipers) alongside one other Condi (two at max) so nobody loses their boons and thus lower DPS when away from the main group.

Do you understand now?

“I’m talking about (at Red VG for example) you having Herald with boon support on a Condi build (full Vipers) alongside one other Condi (two at max) so nobody loses their boons and thus lower DPS when away from the main group.”

Yup, I agree 100%….if that matters.
I think what you have said would/will work just fine and I will be running and testing it tomorrow in our static run. Its just nice to have another class to go to when I don’t need to be “banner boy”.

Oh! And this………… nails it and I preach it all the time. While I do appreciate the work and effort the QT folks and others do this is key:
“Thirdly – they even state to not take their word as bible. “You don’t need maximum DPS to complete”.”
have fun people, that’s all. :P

Joxer.6024:

Oh! And this………… nails it and I preach it all the time. While I do appreciate the work and effort the QT folks and others do this is key:
“Thirdly – they even state to not take their word as bible. “You don’t need maximum DPS to complete”.”
have fun people, that’s all. :P

While I totally agree that you can clear any content in the game with any class, it’s still important to be realistic about our game/community…

People like Nerfing are dangerous because they come on the forums talking about how Condi Rev is great, and you can tell people that you’ll keep up fury and protection, and dps doesn’t matter because the people that follow the meta are spread-sheet-warrior-idiot-qT-fanboys. And that’s great. But the thing is, the only people who are going to take anything away from that are new players who want to get into raiding, and it’s just steering them down a path of extreme frustration.

Experienced players know Rev can pulse boons and they know if they’re static raid is going to want to bring it for whatever crazy reason he gave like, “Your druid can focus more on healing…” The problem is the newer players who see it, and then proceed to waste their time/resources decking out their Rev in full ascended only to hit the raid scene and get laughed out of LFG because threads like this make it seem like people who follow the meta are a small-elitist minority of the raid community, when it’s really the other way around.

narcx.3570:

Joxer.6024:

Oh! And this………… nails it and I preach it all the time. While I do appreciate the work and effort the QT folks and others do this is key:
“Thirdly – they even state to not take their word as bible. “You don’t need maximum DPS to complete”.”
have fun people, that’s all. :P

While I totally agree that you can clear any content in the game with any class, it’s still important to be realistic about our game/community…

People like Nerfing are dangerous because they come on the forums talking about how Condi Rev is great, and you can tell people that you’ll keep up fury and protection, and dps doesn’t matter because the people that follow the meta are spread-sheet-warrior-idiot-qT-fanboys. And that’s great. But the thing is, the only people who are going to take anything away from that are new players who want to get into raiding, and it’s just steering them down a path of extreme frustration.

Experienced players know Rev can pulse boons and they know if they’re static raid is going to want to bring it for whatever crazy reason he gave like, “Your druid can focus more on healing…” The problem is the newer players who see it, and then proceed to waste their time/resources decking out their Rev in full ascended only to hit the raid scene and get laughed out of LFG because threads like this make it seem like people who follow the meta are a small-elitist minority of the raid community, when it’s really the other way around.

Yea, exactly right….and that’s why I will be trying it out in our static team run so I know for sure, myself, instead of reading about it. Also wasn’t aware that Nerfing’s post were of that nature so thanks for the heads up. Will read them with a more open mind in future.
And lets hope that something positive for revs does happen! I mean, I’m ok with "just dps’ for now, nothing wrong with that, as long as its up to snuff.

narcx.3570:

Joxer.6024:

Oh! And this………… nails it and I preach it all the time. While I do appreciate the work and effort the QT folks and others do this is key:
“Thirdly – they even state to not take their word as bible. “You don’t need maximum DPS to complete”.”
have fun people, that’s all. :P

While I totally agree that you can clear any content in the game with any class, it’s still important to be realistic about our game/community…

People like Nerfing are dangerous because they come on the forums talking about how Condi Rev is great, and you can tell people that you’ll keep up fury and protection, and dps doesn’t matter because the people that follow the meta are spread-sheet-warrior-idiot-qT-fanboys. And that’s great. But the thing is, the only people who are going to take anything away from that are new players who want to get into raiding, and it’s just steering them down a path of extreme frustration.

Experienced players know Rev can pulse boons and they know if they’re static raid is going to want to bring it for whatever crazy reason he gave like, “Your druid can focus more on healing…” The problem is the newer players who see it, and then proceed to waste their time/resources decking out their Rev in full ascended only to hit the raid scene and get laughed out of LFG because threads like this make it seem like people who follow the meta are a small-elitist minority of the raid community, when it’s really the other way around.

Right, I’m dangerous because I tell people to think and test for themselves ,rather than just believe somebody elses work and never think for yourself. Although as others have done, you clearly can’t read. You can’t keep up Prot as a Condi Rev, you can as a Support Rev (big clue, they’re worlds apart in builds). Can you keep Fury up? Yes, easily. Did I state DPS doesn’t matter? No. I stated you don’t need maximum DPS .

There is no path of extreme frustration if you actually take the time to experiment, learn and prove your ability. Certainly no frustration in dealing with spreadsheet happy time wasters if you just cut them out entirely (and as a bonus, you’ll enjoy the content more).

Condi Rev was fine before the patch, it’s even better now. The only people who do follow the QT spreadsheet blindly IS a small elitist group. People like Narc et al are the issue, refusing to accept anything that doesn’t match the spreadsheet, and anyone who encourages people to try outside the meta must be met with just pure BS in a fit of blind panic.

@Joxer, you should ignore Narc or anyone else like that and test things for yourself, because all you’ll hear from them is “Rev is bad because xyz” or “my spreadsheet tells me so”.

“@Joxer, you should ignore Narc or anyone else like that and test things for yourself, because all you’ll hear from them is “Rev is bad because xyz” or “my spreadsheet tells me so”.”
yea, pretty much my plan that way I know for sure and for myself…then I can come in here and flame you all!!!! LOL!!!! Cheers

Stop using “spreadsheet” as an excuse for not testing things yourself. If you don’t even know how often chronos proc soi, that’s a red flag of you don’t know what you’re teammates are doing. I know qt word isn’t final. As far as I’m concerned, the dps meters (which also include buff uptime etc) in real raids are what matter. I’ve done off meta builds. My herald had two ascended axes with sigil of air/strength depending on if I needed to proc more aoe might for my team.
“Proof from over a year ago”
 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raids-Burnzerkers-Meta-40-higher-damage/page/4#post5908768

Testing is fine. I’m not against it and do it myself regularly. The problem is people like you who seem to only understand what rev does without the context of a team. Telling someone Condi rev can bring might at vg red for example…

Condi tempest buffs might. Condi engi blasts might. Condi ps keeps on psing for might and fury at red. Even Condi necro gives might. Condi rangers are just as versatile as rev as they can swap pets to bring whatever boons are needed. What’s so unique about rev at red vg here? You can even send a power ps to red and the group will be fine with remaining ps buffing 6 other people.

The path of frustration is that testing builds is really expensive and it’s disingenuous to tell a new player that rev is fine and will be accepted in pugs easily when most pugs won’t. The recent patch has changed this…maybe. No thanks to you saying condi herald was already fine.

If your team is mostly power, you obviously drop sun spirit instead of frost.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Stop using “spreadsheet” as an excuse for not testing things yourself. If you don’t even know how often chronos proc soi, that’s a red flag of you don’t know what you’re teammates are doing. I know qt word isn’t final. As far as I’m concerned, the dps meters (which also include buff uptime etc) in real raids are what matter. I’ve done off meta builds. My herald had two ascended axes with sigil of air/strength depending on if I needed to proc more aoe might for my team.
“Proof from over a year ago”
 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raids-Burnzerkers-Meta-40-higher-damage/page/4#post5908768

Testing is fine. I’m not against it and do it myself regularly. The problem is people like you who seem to only understand what rev does without the context of a team. Telling someone Condi rev can bring might at vg red for example…

Condi tempest buffs might. Condi engi blasts might. Condi ps keeps on psing for might and fury at red. Even Condi necro gives might. Condi rangers are just as versatile as rev as they can swap pets to bring whatever boons are needed. What’s so unique about rev at red vg here? You can even send a power ps to red and the group will be fine with remaining ps buffing 6 other people.

The path of frustration is that testing builds is really expensive and it’s disingenuous to tell a new player that rev is fine and will be accepted in pugs easily when most pugs won’t. The recent patch has changed this…maybe. No thanks to you saying condi herald was already fine.

If your team is mostly power, you obviously drop sun spirit instead of frost.

Pretty sure you’ve gotten confused, again.

1. I do test things myself, I tell people all the time here they should test for themselves and not go by somebody elses work and be a spreadsheet warrior. Learn to read perhaps?

I’m well aware of how Chronos proc it, but then you seem to be flipping between a raid team that’s fully aware of each other, on voice, 100% team work and co-ordination, and a pug which won’t have any of that. So which is it?
If pug, it won’t have that level of co-ordination and familiarity so they won’t have the timing right to prime.
Spreadsheet warriors are the type of people to exclude classes based on a % in a spreadsheet. “Oh this does 1% less damage, not viable, boot”.

Me? As far as I care, if you can do your class well and you know it, it’ll show. That show means I know you won’t be a hindrance. If you’re the type of person to boot people based on meta speed runs (which btw, don’t matter, nobody cares if you’re going for a speed run unless you specifically state and want it) because they do x% less damage, you’re dead weight to me. Why dead weight? Because if some dynamic changed in a raid boss tomorrow, you’d be the type of person to wait until somebody else did the run successfully, video’d, provided a breakdown and new spreadsheet for best DPS before you went and did it yourself.

I’ve built my Rev around team context and solo (3 sets of Ascended each for a different purpose with the main being a mix of Assassin + Commanders to ensure 100% Crit on myself and 100% Boon uptime for myself + team). I know what I’m doing, how to test, make builds etc.

Again, well done for not only not understanding but you even take it further by taking my statement out of context “can provide might at red vg”. You realise Condi Rev + Mace #2 + 3 = what? Oh, right…Might….
Wonder what else Rev can pulse at that point….oh yeah!

Regen
Might
Fury
F2 for longer duration + several boons at once

Thus….enabling other Condi(s) to focus on DPS and not boons.

Testing build is not expensive, you can test in full exotics because you know there’s roughly a 5-10% difference at most when using full Ascended.

Any pug that discriminates based on somebody elses spreadsheets, deserves every wipe they’ll get.

Testing needs to be done in real settings not on test dummies though, the point here is condi and power are viable run what what you want just be effective, but I really think it comes down to flaws with the class, it needs a somewhat of a redesign, since they are already kind of jack of all trades they need to be able to offer something unique and more useful in raids for each one, they should bring the versatility more obvious for people where they believe revs are a great addition to the raid.

I’d say their designs pretty solid, jack of all trades, capable of filling any role and pretty kitten versatile

this post went from “pve” viability to people arguing about raids. the op said “pve” not raids (unless op meant raids then i am wrong). so here is my answer. is condi rev viable? well in open world, dungeons, and fractals yes. by a long shot over power rev. running a proper setup using DEmon/Glint running corruption, invocation and herald you can run up to mobs, drop 20+ stacks of damage boosted torment on them, with slow, poison, confusion, and burning and just walk away as mobs kill themselves and thats just using 4 skills and not comboing them. worried aboutconstant dps? just run proper traits with condi duration foods etc. i would say why run demon/glint and those traitlines but if you just look a them youll understand.
I used to run power rev, and it still works but condi is the name of the game in gw2 right now and testing shows, with that last patch, condi rev is the way to go.
Runining sinsister or vipers or a mix whatnot probably get you max dps, but shoot i run full dire gear and things like vetran bristlebacks just drop, hell everything just drops its ridiculus. also i cant spell.

If anyone is intrested ill post my build outside this thread
Truthfuly i cant speak for raiding since raids are so cancer imo, ill leave that for others.

for the pic a random ranger came up and gave me the precision and bleed so ignore those

To the OP, sorry about the whole hijacking thing. Condi is viable in general PvE and even in raids it’s looking to be a viable build when you focus on dmg.
—-
Nothing I’m saying requires coordination of TS/guild groups. If you think SoI is a 30 second CD that rarely happens, no you don’t know how it works. When a Chrono casts SoI 4 times within the first 10 seconds of a fight and then twice every ~20 seconds, that’s plenty of time to prime them with whatever boons you feel like if those boons last more than 5 seconds. Whether you like it or not, there is a meta of 1 druid, 1 chrono and 1 PS per subgroup. This is both a pug and a guild group meta for the most part. Sure there are minor deviations but that doesn’t change the fact that this already covers all the boons you discussed. Can other groups clear without that comp? Yes. Does that mean it’s good advice to tell a new player to ignore that meta? No, because it’s the most common one to run into.

All the meta condi builds can provide might while pulling off their rotation. Regen and fury can happen with most of them as well. Rev isn’t special here. Overloading fire is part of the rotation for condi tempest and gives might. The shout heal is also aoe heals if needed. PS warrior has might/fury with FGJ which is part of their rotation. Blood is power for reapers gives aoe might. Blasting might is easy at the start when red is invulnerable. Using a pet tiger is easy fury. Swap to a jaguar for easy might if you want that. Healing turret, healing springs for regen or signet heal for Necro are easy group heals. There is nothing special abouts the boons you are talking about. You aren’t enabling the other condis to focus on DPS if they are providing their boons through a normal rotation or pressing #6 when they feel like it.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

To the OP, sorry about the whole hijacking thing. Condi is viable in general PvE and even in raids it’s looking to be a viable build when you focus on dmg.
—-
Nothing I’m saying requires coordination of TS/guild groups. If you think SoI is a 30 second CD that rarely happens, no you don’t know how it works. When a Chrono casts SoI 4 times within the first 10 seconds of a fight and then twice every ~20 seconds, that’s plenty of time to prime them with whatever boons you feel like if those boons last more than 5 seconds. Whether you like it or not, there is a meta of 1 druid, 1 chrono and 1 PS per subgroup. This is both a pug and a guild group meta for the most part. Sure there are minor deviations but that doesn’t change the fact that this already covers all the boons you discussed. Can other groups clear without that comp? Yes. Does that mean it’s good advice to tell a new player to ignore that meta? No, because it’s the most common one to run into.

All the meta condi builds can provide might while pulling off their rotation. Regen and fury can happen with most of them as well. Rev isn’t special here. Overloading fire is part of the rotation for condi tempest and gives might. The shout heal is also aoe heals if needed. PS warrior has might/fury with FGJ which is part of their rotation. Blood is power for reapers gives aoe might. Blasting might is easy at the start when red is invulnerable. Using a pet tiger is easy fury. Swap to a jaguar for easy might if you want that. Healing turret, healing springs for regen or signet heal for Necro are easy group heals. There is nothing special abouts the boons you are talking about. You aren’t enabling the other condis to focus on DPS if they are providing their boons through a normal rotation or pressing #6 when they feel like it.

Actually it’s perfectly good advice to get people to ignore the meta, otherwise they’d never try or test anything for themselves and just assume somebody elses work is right and anything else is wrong. That, is how we end up having such toxic “meta” parties. A new player can come in, play with whatever they want and see if they can make it work, rather than just doing nothing and waiting for the next spreadsheet.

I’ve never stated the Rev is special, I did however state (repeatedly) that Rev being there means they don’t HAVE to pulse their boons, they can DPS easier and worry less about “must do this to put boons up”. If it’s part of their rotation, then it’s up even longer or easier with a Rev via F2. Change the thinking, making life easier.

@OP unfortunately, when you start saying the Rev is good, somebody ALWAYS has to come and say “no it’s kitten”.

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Actually it’s perfectly good advice to get people to ignore the meta, otherwise they’d never try or test anything for themselves and just assume somebody elses work is right and anything else is wrong. That, is how we end up having such toxic “meta” parties. A new player can come in, play with whatever they want and see if they can make it work, rather than just doing nothing and waiting for the next spreadsheet.

I’m not saying going off meta is wrong, or that you shouldn’t test things yourself… I’m just saying that you speak so casually about it, like it’s easy to go into LFG, join a group as condi Rev and say, “Hai guys, I’m testing Condi Rev, don’t worry any class is good and I can give might which lets you focus more on your dps!!!11.1! ^^”

That’s not realistic AT ALL, even if you join something listed as a “Training Run,” half the time they’re still going to ask you to switch classes and say something like, “Yeah, it’s training, but these people DO still need the kill, so we want to give them the best chance at that.”

This is just the way the raiding community is, it sucks but it’s true. I mean, maybe you have a dedicated group of nine other friends that you play with every week so it’s easy to try new things and not worry about tarnishing your name in the tiny raid community by cranking out subpar dps numbers. But the vast majority of raiding is done by people in PUGs, and those are real concerns if you want to keep getting into groups consistently.

narcx.3570:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Actually it’s perfectly good advice to get people to ignore the meta, otherwise they’d never try or test anything for themselves and just assume somebody elses work is right and anything else is wrong. That, is how we end up having such toxic “meta” parties. A new player can come in, play with whatever they want and see if they can make it work, rather than just doing nothing and waiting for the next spreadsheet.

I’m not saying going off meta is wrong, or that you shouldn’t test things yourself… I’m just saying that you speak so casually about it, like it’s easy to go into LFG, join a group as condi Rev and say, “Hai guys, I’m testing Condi Rev, don’t worry any class is good and I can give might which lets you focus more on your dps!!!11.1! ^^”

That’s not realistic AT ALL, even if you join something listed as a “Training Run,” half the time they’re still going to ask you to switch classes and say something like, “Yeah, it’s training, but these people DO still need the kill, so we want to give them the best chance at that.”

This is just the way the raiding community is, it sucks but it’s true. I mean, maybe you have a dedicated group of nine other friends that you play with every week so it’s easy to try new things and not worry about tarnishing your name in the tiny raid community by cranking out subpar dps numbers. But the vast majority of raiding is done by people in PUGs, and those are real concerns if you want to keep getting into groups consistently.

I’m more aware people like that exist, and I’ve done some pug raiding myself and never encountered them myself (maybe I just got lucky?). I do have a raiding group myself and we run not only training runs but normal runs too, we work with what we have.

See group needs Condi? I have a Rev, I can do Condi + Boons (or be selfish and do full Condi). nothing subpar about the numbers which is a major point I’m trying to get across. You don’t need maximum DPS, you just need to be able to complete the content.

The issue of “must conform to meta” is one that needs to be brought inline separately, so people accept viable things “off meta” as long as it can do the content. Speed running really doesn’t matter unless you’re actually openly going for that.