So it's time
Not at all. Thief is more than fine but the reason why its not played is the amount of braindead aoes HoT brought so thief cant survive well in a teamfight. And cause rev has similiar mobility+sustain and support in teamfight hes a obvious choice at this point replacing thief. But either way as few people pointed out its a pointless discussion so bai.
You literally just proved yourself wrong within your own post.
Personally I find myself completely wrecked by necromancers, and every1 and their aunty seems to play it. I mean there was 1 game where there was 5 necromancers between the 2 teams. Anyway as people have said if you balance the game around high end play, you are going to lose players… Why dont you do something constructive and post a Mesmer and Thief buff thread OP? Some1 said Revs already struggle to get into teams for high level PVE content, are you trying to nerf them into the ground for PVE?
Only 5? I’ve seen games with four necros on one side and at least two on the other.
And you can expect to see at least one a team even on the days where Necromancer Winner isn’t up…
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.
Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.
The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”
(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.
Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.
Last finals had 2 revs a team
That warrants a nerfing by all regards.
As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer
You must realize how bad this logic is right? because it’s used in finals by pro players doesn’t mean the class is OP infact it’s not. no condi cleanse whatsoever, mediocre heals all you have to do is not hit them when they pop it and a few evades. ALL they have going for them is teamwide boonsupport which are easily corrupted and used against them by reapers which are the far superior class in pvp right now.
At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.
Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.
The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”
(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.
Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.
Last finals had 2 revs a team
That warrants a nerfing by all regards.
As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer
You must realize how bad this logic is right? because it’s used in finals by pro players doesn’t mean the class is OP infact it’s not. no condi cleanse whatsoever, mediocre heals all you have to do is not hit them when they pop it and a few evades. ALL they have going for them is teamwide boonsupport which are easily corrupted and used against them by reapers which are the far superior class in pvp right now.
It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.
The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.
It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.
The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.
How many more posts will you make that completely ignore everything everybody is saying, while parroting ‘Rev needs NURF’ and offering exactly 0 constructive feedback as to how that would happen yourself?
It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.
The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.
How many more posts will you make that completely ignore everything everybody is saying, while parroting ‘Rev needs NURF’ and offering exactly 0 constructive feedback as to how that would happen yourself?
It’s pretty much mindless hating.
Stella Truth Seeker
At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.
Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.
The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”
(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.
Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.
Last finals had 2 revs a team
That warrants a nerfing by all regards.
As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer
You must realize how bad this logic is right? because it’s used in finals by pro players doesn’t mean the class is OP infact it’s not. no condi cleanse whatsoever, mediocre heals all you have to do is not hit them when they pop it and a few evades. ALL they have going for them is teamwide boonsupport which are easily corrupted and used against them by reapers which are the far superior class in pvp right now.
It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.
The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.
way to ignore the actual point of the post and parrot the same thing you’ve been saying over and over because you won’t acknowledge your own logical fallacies.
At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.
Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.
The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”
(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.
Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.
Last finals had 2 revs a team
That warrants a nerfing by all regards.
As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer
You must realize how bad this logic is right? because it’s used in finals by pro players doesn’t mean the class is OP infact it’s not. no condi cleanse whatsoever, mediocre heals all you have to do is not hit them when they pop it and a few evades. ALL they have going for them is teamwide boonsupport which are easily corrupted and used against them by reapers which are the far superior class in pvp right now.
It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.
The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.
way to ignore the actual point of the post and parrot the same thing you’ve been saying over and over because you won’t acknowledge your own logical fallacies.
Rev is over performing as evidenced by being the only class in pro league finals that was stacked. In fact since HoT releare rev has been stacked. That should sound off an alarm that it’s over performing. This is a fact and can not be disputed.
We had 3 classes that got zero representation in the finals. This isn’t good game design especially when a class is taking 2 slots on each team.
Look I get many of you don’t want to hear the truth but game balance trumps your desire to keep your over tuned toy. It’s time to look at the entire picture and not get blinded by personal bias
At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.
Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.
The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”
(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.
Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.
Last finals had 2 revs a team
That warrants a nerfing by all regards.
As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer
You must realize how bad this logic is right? because it’s used in finals by pro players doesn’t mean the class is OP infact it’s not. no condi cleanse whatsoever, mediocre heals all you have to do is not hit them when they pop it and a few evades. ALL they have going for them is teamwide boonsupport which are easily corrupted and used against them by reapers which are the far superior class in pvp right now.
It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.
The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.
way to ignore the actual point of the post and parrot the same thing you’ve been saying over and over because you won’t acknowledge your own logical fallacies.
Rev is over performing as evidenced by being the only class in pro league finals that was stacked. In fact since HoT releare rev has been stacked. That should sound off an alarm that it’s over performing. This is a fact and can not be disputed.
We had 3 classes that got zero representation in the finals. This isn’t good game design especially when a class is taking 2 slots on each team.
Look I get many of you don’t want to hear the truth but game balance trumps your desire to keep your over tuned toy. It’s time to look at the entire picture and not get blinded by personal bias
So pretty much your posts
Stella Truth Seeker
At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.
Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.
The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”
(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.
Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.
Last finals had 2 revs a team
That warrants a nerfing by all regards.
As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer
You must realize how bad this logic is right? because it’s used in finals by pro players doesn’t mean the class is OP infact it’s not. no condi cleanse whatsoever, mediocre heals all you have to do is not hit them when they pop it and a few evades. ALL they have going for them is teamwide boonsupport which are easily corrupted and used against them by reapers which are the far superior class in pvp right now.
It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.
The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.
way to ignore the actual point of the post and parrot the same thing you’ve been saying over and over because you won’t acknowledge your own logical fallacies.
Rev is over performing as evidenced by being the only class in pro league finals that was stacked. In fact since HoT releare rev has been stacked. That should sound off an alarm that it’s over performing. This is a fact and can not be disputed.
We had 3 classes that got zero representation in the finals. This isn’t good game design especially when a class is taking 2 slots on each team.
Look I get many of you don’t want to hear the truth but game balance trumps your desire to keep your over tuned toy. It’s time to look at the entire picture and not get blinded by personal bias
So pretty much your posts
That would be true except for the fact you’ve missed me championing the complete and utter gutting of chronomancer which is my main class.
Personal bias doesn’t pertain to me.
Personal bias doesn’t pertain to me.
Wew, lad. :^)
Still waiting to see you make actual points other than ‘Revs were stacked, needs nurf plox’.
Personal bias doesn’t pertain to me.
Wew, lad. :^)
Still waiting to see you make actual points other than ‘Revs were stacked, needs nurf plox’.
Reread page 1.
Then answer the question.
At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.
Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.
The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”
(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.
Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.
Last finals had 2 revs a team
That warrants a nerfing by all regards.
As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer
You must realize how bad this logic is right? because it’s used in finals by pro players doesn’t mean the class is OP infact it’s not. no condi cleanse whatsoever, mediocre heals all you have to do is not hit them when they pop it and a few evades. ALL they have going for them is teamwide boonsupport which are easily corrupted and used against them by reapers which are the far superior class in pvp right now.
It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.
The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.
way to ignore the actual point of the post and parrot the same thing you’ve been saying over and over because you won’t acknowledge your own logical fallacies.
Rev is over performing as evidenced by being the only class in pro league finals that was stacked. In fact since HoT releare rev has been stacked. That should sound off an alarm that it’s over performing. This is a fact and can not be disputed.
We had 3 classes that got zero representation in the finals. This isn’t good game design especially when a class is taking 2 slots on each team.
Look I get many of you don’t want to hear the truth but game balance trumps your desire to keep your over tuned toy. It’s time to look at the entire picture and not get blinded by personal bias
So pretty much your posts
That would be true except for the fact you’ve missed me championing the complete and utter gutting of chronomancer which is my main class.
Personal bias doesn’t pertain to me.
That doesn’t disprove bias, however.
Alekt posts about wanting Elementalist nerfs, but his hate for Revenants is ridiculously obvious and he fails to consider the class’ mechanics and the rest of their kit when suggesting his extreme nerfs. He is still bias against Revenants, even though he wants Elementalists nerfed (which consequently is not for the direct health of the game, but to justify future buffs).
At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.
Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.
The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”
(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.
Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.
Last finals had 2 revs a team
That warrants a nerfing by all regards.
As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer
You must realize how bad this logic is right? because it’s used in finals by pro players doesn’t mean the class is OP infact it’s not. no condi cleanse whatsoever, mediocre heals all you have to do is not hit them when they pop it and a few evades. ALL they have going for them is teamwide boonsupport which are easily corrupted and used against them by reapers which are the far superior class in pvp right now.
It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.
The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.
way to ignore the actual point of the post and parrot the same thing you’ve been saying over and over because you won’t acknowledge your own logical fallacies.
Rev is over performing as evidenced by being the only class in pro league finals that was stacked. In fact since HoT releare rev has been stacked. That should sound off an alarm that it’s over performing. This is a fact and can not be disputed.
We had 3 classes that got zero representation in the finals. This isn’t good game design especially when a class is taking 2 slots on each team.
Look I get many of you don’t want to hear the truth but game balance trumps your desire to keep your over tuned toy. It’s time to look at the entire picture and not get blinded by personal bias
So pretty much your posts
That would be true except for the fact you’ve missed me championing the complete and utter gutting of chronomancer which is my main class.
Personal bias doesn’t pertain to me.
That doesn’t disprove bias, however.
Alekt posts about wanting Elementalist nerfs, but his hate for Revenants is ridiculously obvious and he fails to consider the class’ mechanics and the rest of their kit when suggesting his extreme nerfs. He is still bias against Revenants, even though he wants Elementalists nerfed (which consequently is not for the direct health of the game, but to justify future buffs).
Maybe he’s onto something called game balance. I’ve never read his posts so I can’t tell 1st hand.
What people need to realize is its time to nerf the power creep. We need to balance HoT with not only all the elites but core specs as well.
Now everyone might say well just buff the classes who suck up to rev level. To them I counter with this:
How has the answer of more power creep worked so far?
Failed miserably.
At that level, builds are constructed on the team level, rather than the individual level. A thief-mesmer swap is fairly simple, since non-bunker mesmers and thieves play much the same role for the team: use mobility and escapes to control points, avoid unfavourable matchups, and +1 favourable ones. Swapping out two revenants would result in major structural changes to the team – the builds and professions of the other players are probably fine-tuned to the assumption that there are two revenants present, and the tactics will also be based on that assumption. Undoing all the experience they’ve gathered playing with that mix for the finals is a gamble that may cost them more than the nerfs that have already been made to revenant.
Outside of that team environment, revenants are suffering pretty badly. Since the major balance patch, I think I’ve had two sPvP games where a revenant played a significant role – mostly, in my experience, they’re doing well not to be food. Reapers are basically a hard counter to an unsupported revenant, there’s a bug on sword which makes it do even less damage than it should (Arenanet is aware of it, but either didn’t prioritise it or didn’t succeed in fixing it before the new season started) and in a typical sPvP soloqueue game, a revenant is much more likely to end up having to fight without support… which it really isn’t well equipped to do.
The proof in the pudding will be what happens in this season. If we’re still seeing revs being common in winning teams, then maybe there is an issue there – although in this case it might be an issue of being strong for top players and weak for most players, which is more complex to balance, and it might also be an issue that it’s not that revs are strong but that other builds that can bring similar things to the table are too weak and need to be buffed. Proper balance is a lot more complicated than “It’s being used a lot in high-level play, NERF!”
(Personally, I’m probably not going to be playing revenant to a significant degree until the next balance patch. I’ll probably be playing guardian and necro more often than not – necro isn’t generally one of my preferred professions, but it’s so overbuffed at the moment, and rev and mes so underpowered (at least in the environment that I play in…) that I’m doing a lot better with the necro.)wut? revs get shrekt by condi with their no condi cleanse, no nerf is needed in this condi meta.
Not to mention that the meta has become even more stun-happy with warriors coming back into play… primarily with hammers.
Last finals had 2 revs a team
That warrants a nerfing by all regards.
As for using the past to justify keeping a class obsolete….please. Thieves haven’t been close to OP since the 1st year of release and the short S/D stint. Even the s/d stint only had them OP vs mesmer
You must realize how bad this logic is right? because it’s used in finals by pro players doesn’t mean the class is OP infact it’s not. no condi cleanse whatsoever, mediocre heals all you have to do is not hit them when they pop it and a few evades. ALL they have going for them is teamwide boonsupport which are easily corrupted and used against them by reapers which are the far superior class in pvp right now.
It was the only class that got stacked in the finals.
The class needs a nerf and yes I do play rev.
way to ignore the actual point of the post and parrot the same thing you’ve been saying over and over because you won’t acknowledge your own logical fallacies.
Rev is over performing as evidenced by being the only class in pro league finals that was stacked. In fact since HoT releare rev has been stacked. That should sound off an alarm that it’s over performing. This is a fact and can not be disputed.
We had 3 classes that got zero representation in the finals. This isn’t good game design especially when a class is taking 2 slots on each team.
Look I get many of you don’t want to hear the truth but game balance trumps your desire to keep your over tuned toy. It’s time to look at the entire picture and not get blinded by personal bias
So pretty much your posts
That would be true except for the fact you’ve missed me championing the complete and utter gutting of chronomancer which is my main class.
Personal bias doesn’t pertain to me.
That doesn’t disprove bias, however.
Alekt posts about wanting Elementalist nerfs, but his hate for Revenants is ridiculously obvious and he fails to consider the class’ mechanics and the rest of their kit when suggesting his extreme nerfs. He is still bias against Revenants, even though he wants Elementalists nerfed (which consequently is not for the direct health of the game, but to justify future buffs).Maybe he’s onto something called game balance. I’ve never read his posts so I can’t tell 1st hand.
What people need to realize is its time to nerf the power creep. We need to balance HoT with not only all the elites but core specs as well.
Now everyone might say well just buff the classes who suck up to rev level. To them I counter with this:
How has the answer of more power creep worked so far?
Failed miserably.
I like how you ignore my main point and start your own.
The problem is Rev does too much at once. Like your friend’s class thief. Thief has the best mobility in PvP to decap and move around the map. Team fight wise they are a liability and unless you are godly you die to a fart in the wind. They remained in the Meta due to the discrepancies in mobility.
In comes Rev who can offer enough mobility and the ability to run the thief down before the decap happens, BUT they can fight in team fights, hold points, AND offer group support.
So while you sacrifice some mobility you gain so much more thus making a thief obsolete.
Same goes with warrior. Revs can do everything they do and more which makes them obsolete.
So you need to cut away some dimensions on the rev builds. If they want to have good mobility/chase with really good damage then their group support/fighting needs to get gutted. Something along those lines
This is literally everything you said on the matter, except for ‘Rev was stacked, needs nerf’. And it’s overly simplistic, remains to be proven and doesn’t really offer anything.
So after having reread the first page, I’ll tell you what you suggested:
‘Rev can do so much [citation needed] and it was stacked in the ESL finals, it needs a nerf’
So I’m asking you again what your actual suggestions are beyond that. Maybe people were inclined to listen to you if you, you know, had actual arguments.
It’s been proven by the 20 players in the finals.
I asked for everyone to come up with suggestions as come to a consensus as a group. So being vague is actually setting up the discussion
So, what are the professions people are actually seeing in ranked nowadays?
My experience has been that even on days when Revenant Winner is up, revenants are uncommon to see, and practically unheard of on days when Revenant Winner isn’t up. Reapers, on the other hand, are usually at least one a team even when Necromancer Winner isn’t up, and in soloqueue it isn’t unusual to see them stacked three or four in a team on days when it is up.
I think that says more about what the actual balance considerations are nowadays then team compositions that may not have been adjusted for the nerfs that have already been applied.
Personally, I played a couple of revenant games while still in amber when the competition was generally fairly weak and you couldn’t lose pips, but now I’m finding playing revenant just isn’t worth the risk of losing a pip. Too many reapers, and reapers both hard counter you and they know they hard counter you. Any build you bring into soloqueue ranked PvP at the moment needs to have a means of fighting reapers on something like an even footing to be viable.
I’m doing well with dragonhunter, reaper, and tempest – and the last I literally only picked up in PvP since the season began (although the current tempest build does feel similar to some core guardian builds that I ran pre-HoT, so that might be a factor). Druid I’ve also done well with, but the number of druid games I’ve played thus far are too small to generate a sample size from.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
Too many reapers, and reapers both hard counter you and they know they hard counter you.
Hmm… since i moved from hammer to staff i havent lost to a necro 1v1 with power rev. Even if they had full DS. Its uphill battle but its possible to win if you wont do too many mistakes. Worth mentioning that shield will get you killed vs them btw.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
It’s been proven by the 20 players in the finals.
I asked for everyone to come up with suggestions as come to a consensus as a group. So being vague is actually setting up the discussion
Which brings me to my point of ‘what exactly is your argument other than ’rev was stacked, needs nerf’ ‘? You said I should reread and tell you, I did. So it’s your turn.
And if everybody else is disagreeing with you, maybe your vague points can’t set up a discussion because your premise is garbage (evident by your own lack of arguments).
It’s been proven by the 20 players in the finals.
I asked for everyone to come up with suggestions as come to a consensus as a group. So being vague is actually setting up the discussion
Which brings me to my point of ‘what exactly is your argument other than ’rev was stacked, needs nerf’ ‘? You said I should reread and tell you, I did. So it’s your turn.
And if everybody else is disagreeing with you, maybe your vague points can’t set up a discussion because your premise is garbage (evident by your own lack of arguments).
Rev is currently locking out 3 to 5 classes out of the meta.
They do too much at one time. That’s the problem. You can’t deny this either.
You can call it garbage but you tend to make yourself look bad by doing so.
It’s been proven by the 20 players in the finals.
I asked for everyone to come up with suggestions as come to a consensus as a group. So being vague is actually setting up the discussion
Which brings me to my point of ‘what exactly is your argument other than ’rev was stacked, needs nerf’ ‘? You said I should reread and tell you, I did. So it’s your turn.
And if everybody else is disagreeing with you, maybe your vague points can’t set up a discussion because your premise is garbage (evident by your own lack of arguments).
Rev is currently locking out 3 to 5 classes out of the meta.
They do too much at one time. That’s the problem. You can’t deny this either.
You can call it garbage but you tend to make yourself look bad by doing so.
Except that’s just your opinion without anything to back that up other than ‘because they were stacked’. Which brings us full circle.
It’s been proven by the 20 players in the finals.
I asked for everyone to come up with suggestions as come to a consensus as a group. So being vague is actually setting up the discussion
Which brings me to my point of ‘what exactly is your argument other than ’rev was stacked, needs nerf’ ‘? You said I should reread and tell you, I did. So it’s your turn.
And if everybody else is disagreeing with you, maybe your vague points can’t set up a discussion because your premise is garbage (evident by your own lack of arguments).
Rev is currently locking out 3 to 5 classes out of the meta.
They do too much at one time. That’s the problem. You can’t deny this either.
You can call it garbage but you tend to make yourself look bad by doing so.
No it isn’t just because those 3 classes are bad, doesn’t mean revenant is responsible, again you have nothing to say other than " oh they were stacked so must be op, I have to wonder if you actually play spvp on a rev like you say you do, because if you really did, you’d know revs are far from op. I don’t even play rev anymore because of all the nerfs they have already received. Necro’s are everywhere and they hardcounter you, you have a difficult time with mesmers due to clones making UA bounce between them all on top of their condi damage. You have no condi cleanse, you have to burn a dodge just to get stability for a few seconds, you have mediocre blocks that root you in place with hardly any healing. kitten there are still a number of bugs that plague the class especially since sword weapon damage isnt even taken into account.
Revenants are in just as bad of a spot right now
It’s been proven by the 20 players in the finals.
I asked for everyone to come up with suggestions as come to a consensus as a group. So being vague is actually setting up the discussion
Which brings me to my point of ‘what exactly is your argument other than ’rev was stacked, needs nerf’ ‘? You said I should reread and tell you, I did. So it’s your turn.
And if everybody else is disagreeing with you, maybe your vague points can’t set up a discussion because your premise is garbage (evident by your own lack of arguments).
Rev is currently locking out 3 to 5 classes out of the meta.
They do too much at one time. That’s the problem. You can’t deny this either.
You can call it garbage but you tend to make yourself look bad by doing so.
Still repeating the same thing like a broken disc.
And about tournaments, have you even considered that Revenants have a higher skill ceiling than other classes? And that they reward team play? And that tournaments are 100% teamplay? Those are some of the reasons people are playing Reapers and even DHs way more than Revenants, they are still viable for roaming but there are way better and easier options around.
Same with elementalists, they synergize really well in actual organized team fights (tournaments) and are best when put together with Revenants. But for solo play, roaming, they are not the best choice.
Stella Truth Seeker
Just stop feeding please. This thread makes no sense at all and shouldnt be continued. There are no arguments whatsoever, just nerf for the sake of nerf so his thief can roflstomp rev and boast about it. Leave it please.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
As a final note: there is a difference between evidence and proof.
The fact that Revs were stacked in tournaments is evidence that Revs are somewhat OP.
However, it is NOT proof.
There is also evidence that suggest that Revenants are struggling in the current meta, because pro-league gameplay does not necessarily reflect ladder play (which is currently infested with difficult match-ups).
As a final note: there is a difference between evidence and proof.
The fact that Revs were stacked in tournaments is evidence that Revs are somewhat OP.
However, it is NOT proof.There is also evidence that suggest that Revenants are struggling in the current meta, because pro-league gameplay does not necessarily reflect ladder play (which is currently infested with difficult match-ups).
Evidence:
1. All pro thieves/warriors switched to rev in pro league
2. 3-5 classes are locked out of meta by rev
3. Revs do multiple jobs in a match
4 Revs are low skill friendly
5. Revs after a nerf are still stacked
The evidence adds up to proof. Stop denying the truth
(edited by Azukas.1426)
As a final note: there is a difference between evidence and proof.
The fact that Revs were stacked in tournaments is evidence that Revs are somewhat OP.
However, it is NOT proof.There is also evidence that suggest that Revenants are struggling in the current meta, because pro-league gameplay does not necessarily reflect ladder play (which is currently infested with difficult match-ups).
Evidence:
1. All pro thieves/warriors switched to rev in pro league
2. 3-5 classes are locked out of meta by rev
3. Revs do multiple jobs in a match
4 Revs are low skill friendly
5. Revs after a nerf are still stackedThe evidence adds up to proof. Stop denying the truth
The thing is that all of those are incredibly debatable.
1. They have practiced with Revenant with their current teams more; makes sense to stick to Rev. You could argue that Rev is still better regardless, but I point you to:
2. That’s arguably more to do with Conquest being poorly designed and even then, they’re not locked out because of the Revenant, but usually other factors (i.e. Thief cannot stay in an AoE spam-fest and there are more answers to their decaps like Portal/more mobile bunkers/phase traversal/more teamfights/etc. while Warrior lacks sustain, for example).
3. That literally means nothing. Lots of classes can do multiple jobs; that’s why they’re taken over more niche/restricted options.
4. Actually, since they rely mostly on active defenses, I’d argue that they require higher skill than a lot of other builds, especially older ones. Remember HamBow Warrior when it dominated the ladder? or Turret Engi? This is also not evidence that Rev is OP in the slightest. Even if it was super braindead easy to use, it does not mean it’s OP.
5. Go back to #1.
None of these are concrete evidence except arguably #1.
1. You are telling me that the pro thieves have more practice with a class released last November over thier main class of 3 yrs or thier alts of 3 yrs….lololol Stop.
2. The game is balanced around conquest so your entire argument is null. The 3 classes left out completely have all had extensive periods of time in the meta. They just suddenly become poorly designed for conquest.
3. No not all classes can do multiple jobs. Necros are immobile, eles don’t burst, etc etc etc. Revs got speed, sustain, burst, and support. Remember when cele ele had all that?? I remember every class that had all that and they are ALWAYS too strong.
4. Something is considered too strong or over performing when the amount of effort put in yields too much reward. So what happens in the instance when you have a REALLY talented player in that scenario? I’ll tell you it’s #5 on the list.
5. Anet has officially stated that when you start seeing a profession stacked they are over performing and need to be looked at. That’s the devs words.
Thank you
Almost everything needs re tuning, games currently in a total power creep among most classes. The place to start imo would be rev hopefully though if or when it happens its all done at once so the checks made to balance rev will also come with checks to balance reaper, scrapper etc.
Outside of all that though its very easy to see that revs are the big dog on top of the multiple powerhouse options available in the game atm.
GW2 pro and rank are not popular enough for a “solved” meta, their behavior is not a good measure of balance.
Even the TP has profit bubbles that shouldn’t exist.
1. You are telling me that the pro thieves have more practice with a class released last November over thier main class of 3 yrs or thier alts of 3 yrs….lololol Stop.
2. The game is balanced around conquest so your entire argument is null. The 3 classes left out completely have all had extensive periods of time in the meta. They just suddenly become poorly designed for conquest.
3. No not all classes can do multiple jobs. Necros are immobile, eles don’t burst, etc etc etc. Revs got speed, sustain, burst, and support. Remember when cele ele had all that?? I remember every class that had all that and they are ALWAYS too strong.
4. Something is considered too strong or over performing when the amount of effort put in yields too much reward. So what happens in the instance when you have a REALLY talented player in that scenario? I’ll tell you it’s #5 on the list.
5. Anet has officially stated that when you start seeing a profession stacked they are over performing and need to be looked at. That’s the devs words.
Thank you
1. You clearly don’t understand what I say, but instead just answer to things you think I was saying. If they have done practice games with 2x Revenants the entire time, there is ZERO reason to try any other class when tournament time comes. You don’t just suddenly swap what you’ve been practicing with your team unless the situation calls for it, but since you can’t swap classes during a match, there’s no reason to go back to Thief (which I’ll explain further later).
2. Correction: They attempt to balance around Conquest. Many changes are in fact for PvE and/or roamers rather than Conquest’s main goal of sitting on a point. The 3 classes left out are all being left out because of the new harsh environment. Revenant isn’t the only new opponent here; do you honestly think Rev is the only reason that Thief, Warrior, and Guardian aren’t being used as much?
Thief just cannot handle the AoE spamfest in team fights and its been relegated to decapping and +1ing fights for so long (which are both unneeded now as many classes have more mobility and the game is more teamfight-oriented) that it’s just not needed right now, despite having higher damage and mobility than the Revenant.
Warrior has the same problem. It just can’t sustain through the team fights.
Guardian simply doesn’t put enough on the table to be considered. Dragonhunter is somewhat gimmicky and countered by Auramancers and those same Auramancers can also tank and heal/support the team better too (notice how it’s Tempest that knocks Guard out of the meta, not Revenants?).
3. Being immobile and not having burst are not jobs. You’re being disingenuous. What do Tempests do? Boon Support, CC, Healing, and are also quite tanky.
What do Scrappers do? CC, damage, and are also tanky.
What do Revenants do? Mobility, Damage and Boon Support.
What do Druids do? Mobility, Healing, CC, and some Damage.
Don’t twist reality to suit your argument.
4. Have you ever heard of a skill ceiling? Whatever, point is that something being easy to use does not necessarily make it OP, it just makes it more accessible.
I’m going to take Hellbat drops from StarCraft 2 as an example. They weren’t really difficult to use and their reward was very high when they succeeded in their mission (they could easily win games), however, even decent players learned how to counter them. So despite how easy they were to use and how high their reward was, they weren’t considered OP by anyone except low rank players who couldn’t react properly.
The Hellbat was still used by several army compositions and not just for dropping inside bases and it remained a low-skill unit with a high reward, but it wasn’t really OP.
I could use other examples if you want.
You cannot correlate ease of use with being overpowered, especially when high-skill builds can also be overpowered.
5. I haven’t personally seen this quote so I’ll take your word for it. Regardless of what they said, they set themselves up for this to happen.
They gave teams room to stack a single class, so why would they NOT stack the class they’ve practiced (in their team comp, remember #1) so much with, isn’t annihilated immediately by the current threats, and still brings something to the table?
Revenant isn’t pushing Thief/Warrior/Guard out of the meta; the meta is pushing them out by requiring things they simply don’t have (i.e. Revenant is better at Conquest than them right now).
We also need to mention that pro-league DOES NOT reflect most of the ladder. People are experiencing different things right now.
Even in SC2, you would NOT have the same meta as pro players unless you were in Grandmaster or Master rank alongside them which the majority of players were not. Blizzard used pro players to help them balance, but they weren’t the only factor to consider either.
That being said, I do believe the Rev needs some nerfs and changes (along with everyone else!), but the way you arrived at that conclusion is faulty and dangerous.
Not to mention that you clearly don’t understand the class enough to provide any real suggestions, but just come here pointing fingers. You should have expected this kind of response from everyone.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
This topic still goes on /facepalm
Some mod need to jump in and lock it asap.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
1. You are telling me that the pro thieves have more practice with a class released last November over thier main class of 3 yrs or thier alts of 3 yrs….lololol Stop.
2. The game is balanced around conquest so your entire argument is null. The 3 classes left out completely have all had extensive periods of time in the meta. They just suddenly become poorly designed for conquest.
3. No not all classes can do multiple jobs. Necros are immobile, eles don’t burst, etc etc etc. Revs got speed, sustain, burst, and support. Remember when cele ele had all that?? I remember every class that had all that and they are ALWAYS too strong.
4. Something is considered too strong or over performing when the amount of effort put in yields too much reward. So what happens in the instance when you have a REALLY talented player in that scenario? I’ll tell you it’s #5 on the list.
5. Anet has officially stated that when you start seeing a profession stacked they are over performing and need to be looked at. That’s the devs words.
Thank you
1. You clearly don’t understand what I say, but instead just answer to things you think I was saying. If they have done practice games with 2x Revenants the entire time, there is ZERO reason to try any other class when tournament time comes. You don’t just suddenly swap what you’ve been practicing with your team unless the situation calls for it, but since you can’t swap classes during a match, there’s no reason to go back to Thief (which I’ll explain further later).
2. Correction: They attempt to balance around Conquest. Many changes are in fact for PvE and/or roamers rather than Conquest’s main goal of sitting on a point. The 3 classes left out are all being left out because of the new harsh environment. Revenant isn’t the only new opponent here; do you honestly think Rev is the only reason that Thief, Warrior, and Guardian aren’t being used as much?
Thief just cannot handle the AoE spamfest in team fights and its been relegated to decapping and +1ing fights for so long (which are both unneeded now as many classes have more mobility and the game is more teamfight-oriented) that it’s just not needed right now, despite having higher damage and mobility than the Revenant.
Warrior has the same problem. It just can’t sustain through the team fights.
Guardian simply doesn’t put enough on the table to be considered. Dragonhunter is somewhat gimmicky and countered by Auramancers and those same Auramancers can also tank and heal/support the team better too (notice how it’s Tempest that knocks Guard out of the meta, not Revenants?).
3. Being immobile and not having burst are not jobs. You’re being disingenuous. What do Tempests do? Boon Support, CC, Healing, and are also quite tanky.
What do Scrappers do? CC, damage, and are also tanky.
What do Revenants do? Mobility, Damage and Boon Support.
What do Druids do? Mobility, Healing, CC, and some Damage.Don’t twist reality to suit your argument.
4. Have you ever heard of a skill ceiling? Whatever, point is that something being easy to use does not necessarily make it OP, it just makes it more accessible.
I’m going to take Hellbat drops from StarCraft 2 as an example. They weren’t really difficult to use and their reward was very high when they succeeded in their mission (they could easily win games), however, even decent players learned how to counter them. So despite how easy they were to use and how high their reward was, they weren’t considered OP by anyone except low rank players who couldn’t react properly.
The Hellbat was still used by several army compositions and not just for dropping inside bases and it remained a low-skill unit with a high reward, but it wasn’t really OP.
I could use other examples if you want.
You cannot correlate ease of use with being overpowered, especially when high-skill builds can also be overpowered.5. I haven’t personally seen this quote so I’ll take your word for it. Regardless of what they said, they set themselves up for this to happen.
They gave teams room to stack a single class, so why would they NOT stack the class they’ve practiced (in their team comp, remember #1) so much with, isn’t annihilated immediately by the current threats, and still brings something to the table?
Revenant isn’t pushing Thief/Warrior/Guard out of the meta; the meta is pushing them out by requiring things they simply don’t have (i.e. Revenant is better at Conquest than them right now).
We also need to mention that pro-league DOES NOT reflect most of the ladder. People are experiencing different things right now.
Even in SC2, you would NOT have the same meta as pro players unless you were in Grandmaster or Master rank alongside them which the majority of players were not. Blizzard used pro players to help them balance, but they weren’t the only factor to consider either.That being said, I do believe the Rev needs some nerfs and changes (along with everyone else!), but the way you arrived at that conclusion is faulty and dangerous.
Not to mention that you clearly don’t understand the class enough to provide any real suggestions, but just come here pointing fingers. You should have expected this kind of response from everyone.
I know what you are saying.
You just choose to ignore 3yrs of players playing the other classes in favor of the new OP class.
Balance is done in favor of PvP 1st and foremost. PvE balance is done when something is broken. WvW isn’t used at all but only in 1 circumstance.
Also quit down playing this class.
I know what you are saying.
You just choose to ignore 3yrs of players playing the other classes in favor of the new OP class.
Balance is done in favor of PvP 1st and foremost. PvE balance is done when something is broken. WvW isn’t used at all but only in 1 circumstance.
Also quit down playing this class.
So I guess my point is proven. At least read or try to comprehend what others are saying.
I’ll give you one final example:
In Team Fortress 2 competitive 6v6, the usual team comp is 2x Scout, 2x Soldier, 1x Demoman, and 1x Medic (IIRC).
If your team practices that specific composition non-stop, it doesn’t matter that your Medic player is a god-tier Spy; he should NEVER swap to Spy during a tournament. There is literally zero reason to do that unless he was 100% sure Spy’s advantages would bring home the trophy.
Your team simply hasn’t practiced with a Spy on their team, so even assuming that Spy can suddenly replace a Medic (which will never happen in TF2, but bare with me), since it is a heavily team-reliant game, it’s just a bad idea to swap on the fly like that when all your practice games have been with the Medic.
You’re just going to throw everyone on your team off their game; it can work, but it’s a very risky play.
Solo =/= High-end Team Play
Notice how I’m not even defending Revenant here; I’m just trying to point out a flaw in your logic (one of many).
If the Thief main swapped to Rev for a tournament and the Rev receives nerfs right before another tournament, then what exactly do you expect the Thief main to play when his practice games have most likely been just with the Revenant?
Can’t swap back to Thief; different meta, different team comps.
Also, it’s quite obvious that balance isn’t always in favor of PvP.
Look at Revenant Sword.
The changes were primarily small changes PvE DPS builds, but it adversely affected both PvP and WvW.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
Some people enjoy the sound of their own voice .. or their fingers typing I guess.
None of the points the OP has presented can be absolutely attributed to the fact that Rev is OP. I’m more apt to think that it conscious strategy that these pro players played something that people aren’t as familiar with to throw off the other teams. #switchhitter
It’s always funny to see what little tidbits people will grasp onto to justify changing something they don’t like. Pros stacking a profession … that’s a new one. /puts in back pocket.
OK thread owner … Rev’s are OPed because they were stacked by pros in a tournament? Fine … what do you suggest get changed? Obviously you have many pages of ideas that are going to be easier to debate than arguing with you about some matter of opinion … WHAT YOU GOT?
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I know what you are saying.
You just choose to ignore 3yrs of players playing the other classes in favor of the new OP class.
Balance is done in favor of PvP 1st and foremost. PvE balance is done when something is broken. WvW isn’t used at all but only in 1 circumstance.
Also quit down playing this class.
So I guess my point is proven. At least read or try to comprehend what others are saying.
I’ll give you one final example:
In Team Fortress 2 competitive 6v6, the usual team comp is 2x Scout, 2x Soldier, 1x Demoman, and 1x Medic (IIRC).
If your team practices that specific composition non-stop, it doesn’t matter that your Medic player is a god-tier Spy; he should NEVER swap to Spy during a tournament. There is literally zero reason to do that unless he was 100% sure Spy’s advantages would bring home the trophy.Your team simply hasn’t practiced with a Spy on their team, so even assuming that Spy can suddenly replace a Medic (which will never happen in TF2, but bare with me), since it is a heavily team-reliant game, it’s just a bad idea to swap on the fly like that when all your practice games have been with the Medic.
You’re just going to throw everyone on your team off their game; it can work, but it’s a very risky play.Solo =/= High-end Team Play
Notice how I’m not even defending Revenant here; I’m just trying to point out a flaw in your logic (one of many).
If the Thief main swapped to Rev for a tournament and the Rev receives nerfs right before another tournament, then what exactly do you expect the Thief main to play when his practice games have most likely been just with the Revenant?
Can’t swap back to Thief; different meta, different team comps.Also, it’s quite obvious that balance isn’t always in favor of PvP.
Look at Revenant Sword.
The changes were primarily small changes PvE DPS builds, but it adversely affected both PvP and WvW.
So going with your TF theme let’s paint the real picture. Said team used a spy instead of a medic for the past three years because there was no medic. A few months ago they switched when the game designers added in the new medic class totally abandoning the spy. Now all teams run 2 medics.
You can’t say teams are running revs because it’s what they are used to practicing with. They’ve been practicing with the other 8 classes for 3 yrs and revs for less than 4 months. In this game’s competitive scene classes that are over performing are EASILY identifiable due to the way conquest works. The pro teams know this thus to counter the stacking of revs they came up with the brilliant strategy of stacking thier own revs lol.
Some people enjoy the sound of their own voice .. or their fingers typing I guess.
None of the points the OP has presented can be absolutely attributed to the fact that Rev is OP. I’m more apt to think that it conscious strategy that these pro players played something that people aren’t as familiar with to throw off the other teams. #switchhitter
It’s always funny to see what little tidbits people will grasp onto to justify changing something they don’t like. Pros stacking a profession … that’s a new one. /puts in back pocket.
OK thread owner … Rev’s are OPed because they were stacked by pros in a tournament? Fine … what do you suggest get changed? Obviously you have many pages of ideas that are going to be easier to debate than arguing with you about some matter of opinion … WHAT YOU GOT?
Already stated previously so let’s work together to come up with a solution.
I know what you are saying.
You just choose to ignore 3yrs of players playing the other classes in favor of the new OP class.
Balance is done in favor of PvP 1st and foremost. PvE balance is done when something is broken. WvW isn’t used at all but only in 1 circumstance.
Also quit down playing this class.
So I guess my point is proven. At least read or try to comprehend what others are saying.
I’ll give you one final example:
In Team Fortress 2 competitive 6v6, the usual team comp is 2x Scout, 2x Soldier, 1x Demoman, and 1x Medic (IIRC).
If your team practices that specific composition non-stop, it doesn’t matter that your Medic player is a god-tier Spy; he should NEVER swap to Spy during a tournament. There is literally zero reason to do that unless he was 100% sure Spy’s advantages would bring home the trophy.Your team simply hasn’t practiced with a Spy on their team, so even assuming that Spy can suddenly replace a Medic (which will never happen in TF2, but bare with me), since it is a heavily team-reliant game, it’s just a bad idea to swap on the fly like that when all your practice games have been with the Medic.
You’re just going to throw everyone on your team off their game; it can work, but it’s a very risky play.Solo =/= High-end Team Play
Notice how I’m not even defending Revenant here; I’m just trying to point out a flaw in your logic (one of many).
If the Thief main swapped to Rev for a tournament and the Rev receives nerfs right before another tournament, then what exactly do you expect the Thief main to play when his practice games have most likely been just with the Revenant?
Can’t swap back to Thief; different meta, different team comps.Also, it’s quite obvious that balance isn’t always in favor of PvP.
Look at Revenant Sword.
The changes were primarily small changes PvE DPS builds, but it adversely affected both PvP and WvW.So going with your TF theme let’s paint the real picture. Said team used a spy instead of a medic for the past three years because there was no medic. A few months ago they switched when the game designers added in the new medic class totally abandoning the spy. Now all teams run 2 medics.
You can’t say teams are running revs because it’s what they are used to practicing with. They’ve been practicing with the other 8 classes for 3 yrs and revs for less than 4 months. In this game’s competitive scene classes that are over performing are EASILY identifiable due to the way conquest works. The pro teams know this thus to counter the stacking of revs they came up with the brilliant strategy of stacking thier own revs lol.
You completely missed the point, again.
He didnt. He does that on a purpose
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Lol what a joke
Stella Truth Seeker
Some people enjoy the sound of their own voice .. or their fingers typing I guess.
None of the points the OP has presented can be absolutely attributed to the fact that Rev is OP. I’m more apt to think that it conscious strategy that these pro players played something that people aren’t as familiar with to throw off the other teams. #switchhitter
It’s always funny to see what little tidbits people will grasp onto to justify changing something they don’t like. Pros stacking a profession … that’s a new one. /puts in back pocket.
OK thread owner … Rev’s are OPed because they were stacked by pros in a tournament? Fine … what do you suggest get changed? Obviously you have many pages of ideas that are going to be easier to debate than arguing with you about some matter of opinion … WHAT YOU GOT?
Already stated previously so let’s work together to come up with a solution.
We would love to but it’s not going to happen if you leave us guessing what that OPed thing is that causes pro’s to stacking Rev in PVP. It’s nice that you have a hypothesis that Rev’s are OPed because of your observation that pros stack them in PVP … I agree. That still doesn’t get you anywhere to solving ’Rev’s are OP’ed" problem because you aren’t telling anyone the cause of the OPedness.
If you have come to the conclusion that Rev’s are OPed through a LOGICAL process, then you should be able to tell us what is it about Revs that is causing Pros to stack in PVP. This is what we need to know to help you come up with a solution. Otherwise, you just got a bunch of people looking clueless on the forum going “DURRR Rev’s OP but dunno why!” Show us the way please!
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I know what you are saying.
You just choose to ignore 3yrs of players playing the other classes in favor of the new OP class.
Balance is done in favor of PvP 1st and foremost. PvE balance is done when something is broken. WvW isn’t used at all but only in 1 circumstance.
Also quit down playing this class.
So I guess my point is proven. At least read or try to comprehend what others are saying.
I’ll give you one final example:
In Team Fortress 2 competitive 6v6, the usual team comp is 2x Scout, 2x Soldier, 1x Demoman, and 1x Medic (IIRC).
If your team practices that specific composition non-stop, it doesn’t matter that your Medic player is a god-tier Spy; he should NEVER swap to Spy during a tournament. There is literally zero reason to do that unless he was 100% sure Spy’s advantages would bring home the trophy.Your team simply hasn’t practiced with a Spy on their team, so even assuming that Spy can suddenly replace a Medic (which will never happen in TF2, but bare with me), since it is a heavily team-reliant game, it’s just a bad idea to swap on the fly like that when all your practice games have been with the Medic.
You’re just going to throw everyone on your team off their game; it can work, but it’s a very risky play.Solo =/= High-end Team Play
Notice how I’m not even defending Revenant here; I’m just trying to point out a flaw in your logic (one of many).
If the Thief main swapped to Rev for a tournament and the Rev receives nerfs right before another tournament, then what exactly do you expect the Thief main to play when his practice games have most likely been just with the Revenant?
Can’t swap back to Thief; different meta, different team comps.Also, it’s quite obvious that balance isn’t always in favor of PvP.
Look at Revenant Sword.
The changes were primarily small changes PvE DPS builds, but it adversely affected both PvP and WvW.So going with your TF theme let’s paint the real picture. Said team used a spy instead of a medic for the past three years because there was no medic. A few months ago they switched when the game designers added in the new medic class totally abandoning the spy. Now all teams run 2 medics.
You can’t say teams are running revs because it’s what they are used to practicing with. They’ve been practicing with the other 8 classes for 3 yrs and revs for less than 4 months. In this game’s competitive scene classes that are over performing are EASILY identifiable due to the way conquest works. The pro teams know this thus to counter the stacking of revs they came up with the brilliant strategy of stacking thier own revs lol.
You completely missed the point, again.
You do not have one. You can’t pull the Rev class is comfortable card when all the players have been playing the other classes for over three years. Your actual point works against you because everyone was used to the other 8 classes before rev dropped 3 months ago.
So why they abandon the classes they are used to to stack 2-3 revs per team?
I’ll give ya hint: It aint because they are comfortable with the rev.
I know what you are saying.
You just choose to ignore 3yrs of players playing the other classes in favor of the new OP class.
Balance is done in favor of PvP 1st and foremost. PvE balance is done when something is broken. WvW isn’t used at all but only in 1 circumstance.
Also quit down playing this class.
So I guess my point is proven. At least read or try to comprehend what others are saying.
I’ll give you one final example:
In Team Fortress 2 competitive 6v6, the usual team comp is 2x Scout, 2x Soldier, 1x Demoman, and 1x Medic (IIRC).
If your team practices that specific composition non-stop, it doesn’t matter that your Medic player is a god-tier Spy; he should NEVER swap to Spy during a tournament. There is literally zero reason to do that unless he was 100% sure Spy’s advantages would bring home the trophy.Your team simply hasn’t practiced with a Spy on their team, so even assuming that Spy can suddenly replace a Medic (which will never happen in TF2, but bare with me), since it is a heavily team-reliant game, it’s just a bad idea to swap on the fly like that when all your practice games have been with the Medic.
You’re just going to throw everyone on your team off their game; it can work, but it’s a very risky play.Solo =/= High-end Team Play
Notice how I’m not even defending Revenant here; I’m just trying to point out a flaw in your logic (one of many).
If the Thief main swapped to Rev for a tournament and the Rev receives nerfs right before another tournament, then what exactly do you expect the Thief main to play when his practice games have most likely been just with the Revenant?
Can’t swap back to Thief; different meta, different team comps.Also, it’s quite obvious that balance isn’t always in favor of PvP.
Look at Revenant Sword.
The changes were primarily small changes PvE DPS builds, but it adversely affected both PvP and WvW.So going with your TF theme let’s paint the real picture. Said team used a spy instead of a medic for the past three years because there was no medic. A few months ago they switched when the game designers added in the new medic class totally abandoning the spy. Now all teams run 2 medics.
You can’t say teams are running revs because it’s what they are used to practicing with. They’ve been practicing with the other 8 classes for 3 yrs and revs for less than 4 months. In this game’s competitive scene classes that are over performing are EASILY identifiable due to the way conquest works. The pro teams know this thus to counter the stacking of revs they came up with the brilliant strategy of stacking thier own revs lol.
You completely missed the point, again.
You do not have one. You can’t pull the Rev class is comfortable card when all the players have been playing the other classes for over three years. Your actual point works against you because everyone was used to the other 8 classes before rev dropped 3 months ago.
So why they abandon the classes they are used to to stack 2-3 revs per team?
I’ll give ya hint: It aint because they are comfortable with the rev.
You keep relating this to Revenant being OP when that is completely irrelevant to my point. I’m just pointing out a flaw in your logic, but you keep thinking I’m defending Revs!
You continue failing to understand why teams might not want to swap classes back and forth on the fly (which destroys your main premise), but obviously you know better.
I know what you are saying.
You just choose to ignore 3yrs of players playing the other classes in favor of the new OP class.
Balance is done in favor of PvP 1st and foremost. PvE balance is done when something is broken. WvW isn’t used at all but only in 1 circumstance.
Also quit down playing this class.
So I guess my point is proven. At least read or try to comprehend what others are saying.
I’ll give you one final example:
In Team Fortress 2 competitive 6v6, the usual team comp is 2x Scout, 2x Soldier, 1x Demoman, and 1x Medic (IIRC).
If your team practices that specific composition non-stop, it doesn’t matter that your Medic player is a god-tier Spy; he should NEVER swap to Spy during a tournament. There is literally zero reason to do that unless he was 100% sure Spy’s advantages would bring home the trophy.Your team simply hasn’t practiced with a Spy on their team, so even assuming that Spy can suddenly replace a Medic (which will never happen in TF2, but bare with me), since it is a heavily team-reliant game, it’s just a bad idea to swap on the fly like that when all your practice games have been with the Medic.
You’re just going to throw everyone on your team off their game; it can work, but it’s a very risky play.Solo =/= High-end Team Play
Notice how I’m not even defending Revenant here; I’m just trying to point out a flaw in your logic (one of many).
If the Thief main swapped to Rev for a tournament and the Rev receives nerfs right before another tournament, then what exactly do you expect the Thief main to play when his practice games have most likely been just with the Revenant?
Can’t swap back to Thief; different meta, different team comps.Also, it’s quite obvious that balance isn’t always in favor of PvP.
Look at Revenant Sword.
The changes were primarily small changes PvE DPS builds, but it adversely affected both PvP and WvW.So going with your TF theme let’s paint the real picture. Said team used a spy instead of a medic for the past three years because there was no medic. A few months ago they switched when the game designers added in the new medic class totally abandoning the spy. Now all teams run 2 medics.
You can’t say teams are running revs because it’s what they are used to practicing with. They’ve been practicing with the other 8 classes for 3 yrs and revs for less than 4 months. In this game’s competitive scene classes that are over performing are EASILY identifiable due to the way conquest works. The pro teams know this thus to counter the stacking of revs they came up with the brilliant strategy of stacking thier own revs lol.
You completely missed the point, again.
You do not have one. You can’t pull the Rev class is comfortable card when all the players have been playing the other classes for over three years. Your actual point works against you because everyone was used to the other 8 classes before rev dropped 3 months ago.
So why they abandon the classes they are used to to stack 2-3 revs per team?
I’ll give ya hint: It aint because they are comfortable with the rev.
You keep relating this to Revenant being OP when that is completely irrelevant to my point. I’m just pointing out a flaw in your logic, but you keep thinking I’m defending Revs!
You continue failing to understand why teams might not want to swap classes back and forth on the fly (which destroys your main premise), but obviously you know better.
How many mesmers were played in the finals?
Oh that’s right everyone swapped 2 mesmers out of thier comp on the fly for necro scrapper.
Seriously you literally have no point especially considering these players will abuse the most OP classes and comps to win thousands of dollars. They’ve literally swapped to classes they are unfamiliar with because it gives them the best chance to win money.
These are facts you can not dispute them. You argue with emotion and disprove your “point” with each continual post.
Some people enjoy the sound of their own voice .. or their fingers typing I guess.
None of the points the OP has presented can be absolutely attributed to the fact that Rev is OP. I’m more apt to think that it conscious strategy that these pro players played something that people aren’t as familiar with to throw off the other teams. #switchhitter
It’s always funny to see what little tidbits people will grasp onto to justify changing something they don’t like. Pros stacking a profession … that’s a new one. /puts in back pocket.
OK thread owner … Rev’s are OPed because they were stacked by pros in a tournament? Fine … what do you suggest get changed? Obviously you have many pages of ideas that are going to be easier to debate than arguing with you about some matter of opinion … WHAT YOU GOT?
Already stated previously so let’s work together to come up with a solution.
We would love to but it’s not going to happen if you leave us guessing what that OPed thing is that causes pro’s to stacking Rev in PVP. It’s nice that you have a hypothesis that Rev’s are OPed because of your observation that pros stack them in PVP … I agree. That still doesn’t get you anywhere to solving ’Rev’s are OP’ed" problem because you aren’t telling anyone the cause of the OPedness.
If you have come to the conclusion that Rev’s are OPed through a LOGICAL process, then you should be able to tell us what is it about Revs that is causing Pros to stack in PVP. This is what we need to know to help you come up with a solution. Otherwise, you just got a bunch of people looking clueless on the forum going “DURRR Rev’s OP but dunno why!” Show us the way please!
Please read the thread starting from page 1 again. This was covered and I asked a specific question.
I thank you ahead of time
To significantly nerf this class in regards to PvP.
After watching the finals rev was the most used class and the only one stacked. 3 classes saw zero representation and 2 saw 1 instance of representation. BTW no team who didn’t have 2x rev made it to the finals.
So let’s brainstorm on what we would do to tone down the class.
Thanks
0 examples. Your post – rev was stacked, nerf it nao. What? Idk, just nerf it
Stop trolling man, youre alone here.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Rev’s are in no way an OP class, what makes them strong is there ability to stack well together and cover all bases efficiently. However they do not massively excel in any given area, a jack of all trades but master of none if you will. They also have a lot of trouble dealing with Condi, and in the current sPVP meta that is a big issue. Come up against a Condi Necro? Run for the hills. You can try running Mallyx but that means losing Shiro and in turn most of the revs mobility and a large DPS loss, and even with Mallyx it’s still an uphill battle. If anything nerf necros, but lets not go down that avenue, other classes can fight them so it’s just a case of picking your battles.
OP is getting nowhere with his/her argument purely because they are providing no suggestions or points to back up his claim that Revs are OP.
You argue with emotion and disprove your “point” with each continual post.
sigh
It’s ironic. It really is.
My entire point is that your point is flawed. They did swap out Mesmers. That’s true.
Probably because they received the biggest game-changing nerfs and the next best things were Scrapper and Necro, neither of which stacks as well as Revenant.
You cannot assume that Revenant is OP just because it was stacked; it was stacked because it fulfilled the needed role best: Thief doesn’t sustain well enough by itself and the extra mobility and damage wasn’t needed, Warrior lacks self-sustain as well, and Guardian (or rather DH) is a bit gimmicky and easily countered (especially by Auramancers). They needed team fighters and out of the remaining options, Revenant was best.
However, you can arrive at the conclusion that Rev is OP from something more concrete: real examples.
Ex1. “I think the high mobility combined with the high amount of damage and defense makes it a tad too strong and difficult to deal with.”
People wouldn’t be arguing with you as much if you had brought up an actual point, but your current logic is flawed. It has no real basis.