Guild Wars 2

But this is beta, we are here to give Anet feedback. The fact that there are no good damage traits or modifiers in any of the non-power traitlines is a problem. Either Shiro must be grossly OP to make up for that or they are going to need to put that damage somewhere.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

Class looks too rigid. Even if shiro and glint are awesome, with how you designed the class that means the class is only going to have 3 or so good playstyles.

I think the traits need to be more playstyle focused, and the weapons need to be less specific.

Since you must equip 1 weapon, it cant define your role as much.
Your legend swap and traits need to be dominant force in what your role is. Your weapon should determine the mechanics of how you engage the enemies/group

So lets say dual swords may be about
Multi hit close range movement in battle.
On shiro it focuses on dmg
On mallyx it has a condi playstyle
On jalis its durable
Ventari its support.

This can be achieved with complimentary traits; on healing line broad use traits like, your critical hits heal, your interupts give aegis, using energy shoots a richochet healing projectile.

And the utilities should be defining, altering how you work with your weapons.
Like a jalis utility that increase your armor based on hitting enemies within a time frame. On one weapon it might work well via aoe, on another by setting up multihits, on another by long ranged line attacks, but multiple weapons work with utility differently but all become more tanky in jalis.

Also lighten up on either cool downs or the energy.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

that is not an excuse. one legend isnt going to fix the issues of underbalance for Dwarf and Centaur.

I dont understand why it is important to release a “pure dps” legend. All you are doing with that is pigeon holing people into a spec. All specs should offer at least average dps and the current specs do not do that at all. It doesnt matter what hasnt been released the current revenant that we have needs love.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

And that last Legend might be really good, but it wouldn’t change the fact that the other Legends really aren’t, right? I mean, the existing Legends and weapons need some very serious work, regardless of what the upcoming additions might offer.

kahzee.6042:

I dont understand why it is important to release a “pure dps” legend. All you are doing with that is pigeon holing people into a spec. All specs should offer at least average dps and the current specs do not do that at all. It doesnt matter what hasnt been released the current revenant that we have needs love.

Ha! But that’s what so many were whinging for! They wanted roles that weren’t DPS… So they’ll spend eternity trying to kill stuff, and those that run DPS builds, won’t.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

We know you haven’t released all weapons and legends yet, but it’s blatantly obvious what they are because you always stick them in the client ready for people to datamine.

even if not all legends and weapons are released there should be a viable option without them or do u want only 1 viable pvp build?
if it is so, why should we test revenant in pvp without the viable traitline/legend/weaponset?

Jordo.5913:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

that shouldnt stop us from being able to do competitive dps with other legends, if a guardian specs into pure shouts to support, they can still do really good dps with their weapon, and that is simply not the case with Revenant, it feels like if i choose ventari as a legend and equip staff, then im only dpsing for the healing orbs to drop because my damage is laughable

im in full zerk gear and all the weapons hit like im wielding a wet noodle

How much damage does a glass Ele deal in Water Attunement? Or how much damage does he do in Earth, with no Condi stat? How about a glass Engineer using Med Kit? It’s pretty obvious that the Centaur/Dwarf legends are serving functions similar to Water/Earth attunements while simultaneously serving as poster children for the “I wanna play a tank/healer!” crowd.

Power/Crit is only part of the damage equation. Weapon coefficients can either empower attacks or emasculate them. Did you really expect a legend that was described by players as “pumping out large amounts of healing” to do damage comparable to weapons that don’t provide that sustain? I didn’t. I also would not be surprised if Dragonhunter ranged damage is also low to make up for its “support.”

I’m afraid if you want to do high DPS on a Rev, you’re going to have to do it on the DPS legend, the method with the ANet stamp of approval, just as if you want to do the most damage with an Ele, you’d better like slinging fire.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Jordo.5913:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

that shouldnt stop us from being able to do competitive dps with other legends, if a guardian specs into pure shouts to support, they can still do really good dps with their weapon, and that is simply not the case with Revenant, it feels like if i choose ventari as a legend and equip staff, then im only dpsing for the healing orbs to drop because my damage is laughable

im in full zerk gear and all the weapons hit like im wielding a wet noodle

How much damage does a glass Ele deal in Water Attunement? Or how much damage does he do in Earth, with no Condi stat? How about a glass Engineer using Med Kit? It’s pretty obvious that the Centaur/Dwarf legends are serving functions similar to Water/Earth attunements while simultaneously serving as poster children for the “I wanna play a tank/healer!” crowd.

Power/Crit is only part of the damage equation. Weapon coefficients can either empower attacks or emasculate them. Did you really expect a legend that was described by players as “pumping out large amounts of healing” to do damage comparable to weapons that don’t provide that sustain? I didn’t. I also would not be surprised if Dragonhunter ranged damage is also low to make up for its “support.”

I’m afraid if you want to do high DPS on a Rev, you’re going to have to do it on the DPS legend, the method with the ANet stamp of approval, just as if you want to do the most damage with an Ele, you’d better like slinging fire.

last time I checked. Med kit was heal skill, not a whole weapon set.

and Water Eles still have 3 other attunements while in combat for added damage. guess how many Revenant has,,,,

How much damage does a glass Ele deal in Water Attunement? Or how much damage does he do in Earth, with no Condi stat? How about a glass Engineer using Med Kit? It’s pretty obvious that the Centaur/Dwarf legends are serving functions similar to Water/Earth attunements while simultaneously serving as poster children for the “I wanna play a tank/healer!” crowd.

Except the “heal canon” Ventari build still doesn’t heal enough to function in that role, and the “Tank Dwarf” role still is not all that tanky, and the “Condi Mallyx” role still does not work very well at all as a Condi class, and the lack of weapon swapping and how uni-tasker all the weapons are mean that the second Legend you can use is almost always kitten from the start, and the lack of utility swapping means that the class is just very underwhelming in terms of customization and versatility.

Nobody expects that a heal-specced Ventari-staff build should do as much damage as an “average” build, but a Zerker Ventari staff build should still do more damage than an average “non-DPS” build, and a Zerker Mallyx Staff build should do more damage than most non-Zerker builds possible (the tradeoff being you would barely have any more healing than other Zerker builds would). If you build for damage, you should get decent damage.

I’m afraid if you want to do high DPS on a Rev, you’re going to have to do it on the DPS legend, the method with the ANet stamp of approval, just as if you want to do the most damage with an Ele, you’d better like slinging fire.

But you can do much more damage with an Ele in Earth, air, or even Water than you can do with a Rev in any stance, which is a problem.

Also, given how important damage is to GW2’s gameplay, “one Legend for damage” is just not satisfactory here. At least 3-4 of the five Legends should provide solid DPS if you spec them for DPS. You should not have to choose Legends based on whether you want to be viable or not. A Tank-Specced Dwarf should be very tanky, low DPS, while a Zerk-specced Dwarf should be slightly tankier and lower damage than most Zerks, the tankiest of the Zerks, but still more DPS than most “balance” builds.

There should be ways to spec for this in each trait line, where if you choose some combinations of Dwarf traits, they will double up your tankiness, while if you choose other options from that line, they will instead boost your offense. Every trait line should have a “max out what this trait does” line of options, and a “balance out what this trait does” option, and let players decide what works best for their build.

Remember that other classes, the main DPS classes, have a lot of +% damage modifiers and stat bonuses. As far as I understand it this will come with the Shiro line.

Remember that other classes, the main DPS classes, have a lot of +% damage modifiers and stat bonuses. As far as I understand it this will come with the Shiro line.

But that’s just one trait line, one that should be optional. There should be +damage modifiers in MOST trait lines, not just one. There should be at most maybe one or two trait lines out of six that are dedicated poor on offense, otherwise the offensive ones become too obligatory.

And remember that the last big patch removed all stat bonuses from Trait lines, so there is no missing trait line that would be adding a huge chunk of Power and Ferocity to the class like there used to be. At most a DPS trait line might add some more might stacking, or a “Vitality to Power” trait or something.

Well, not all classes can do solid DPS in dungeons. Look at Ranger and Necromancer. Even Warriors are bad when compared to Thief and Elementalist when it comes to damage.

It is very hard to say if any class will have as much modifiers as these 2. Ele for example:

150 power when in fire, 10% damage when in fire, 10% damage vs Burning foes, 20% to foes below 50% HP, precision into ferocity trait, 20% vs stunned foes , 20% to vulnerable foes while in water. And you have Sandstorm, and very high damage abilities like lava font, Ice Bow, etc.

No class comes nearly as close really. But this is where other content comes in, no? What if you need defensive stats or abilities? What if you cant stack and melt? Even now 4 of the 8 classes are pretty bad compared to the other 4 in the current content.

Well, not all classes can do solid DPS in dungeons. Look at Ranger and Necromancer. Even Warriors are bad when compared to Thief and Elementalist when it comes to damage.

Sure, but any of the currently available Rev builds are bad when compared to ANY of them. Nobody’s saying that a non-Shiro Rev should be top of the line meta DPS, but they should be competitive with an undergeared Ranger, at least.

But the main issue with Rev damage isn’t the trait lines available.

Sure they do matter in the end, but the Rev problem is purely with numbers first : the weapons have weak damage coefficients and low condition application.

But this is just number tweaking, which is easy. Maybe not easy to get perfect but easy to get to a OK spot. And you know what? I rather like it with Rev weak like that in the beta test because you can already see the kittenstorm it’d be if Rev was on the other hand too strong in damage for the sPvP and WvW crowd :p

roman.6390:

Criticizing the Revenant design right now is like telling an artist their painting is trash when they only just finished a rough outline. Just be patient and let them know if they missed a spot.

The rough outline phase is exactly when you should let them know that the painting is (or looks like it will be) trash. That way they can reevaluate and revise before committing any more time and effort to something that isn’t going to work.

Tweaking the rev’s damage numbers might help, but honestly, there are bigger underlying issues with the class (limited choice, underwhelming utils, wonky energy management, long cast times, general lack of effectiveness in any role, etc.) that should be addressed first.

Knighthonor.4061:

IndigoSundown.5419:

How much damage does a glass Ele deal in Water Attunement? Or how much damage does he do in Earth, with no Condi stat? How about a glass Engineer using Med Kit? It’s pretty obvious that the Centaur/Dwarf legends are serving functions similar to Water/Earth attunements while simultaneously serving as poster children for the “I wanna play a tank/healer!” crowd.

Power/Crit is only part of the damage equation. Weapon coefficients can either empower attacks or emasculate them. Did you really expect a legend that was described by players as “pumping out large amounts of healing” to do damage comparable to weapons that don’t provide that sustain? I didn’t. I also would not be surprised if Dragonhunter ranged damage is also low to make up for its “support.”

I’m afraid if you want to do high DPS on a Rev, you’re going to have to do it on the DPS legend, the method with the ANet stamp of approval, just as if you want to do the most damage with an Ele, you’d better like slinging fire.

last time I checked. Med kit was heal skill, not a whole weapon set.

and Water Eles still have 3 other attunements while in combat for added damage. guess how many Revenant has,,,,

Apparently you’ve not checked. Like all kits, Med Kit replaces one’s weapon skills. An Ele in Berserker gear does not get a lot of mileage out of some Earth skills — the ones that proc bleeds. That leaves Air and Fire, and Fire just fat out does more damage than Air in most cases.

So, yeah, Rev will have at most 2 options for high direct damage, and none are featured this weekend. If they choose Ventari as one of their two stances, then they will have at most one damage stance. Yes, Eles and Engies have more damage options. However, imagine a beta for the Ele profession where only Earth and Water were on offer. You’d be seeing similar complaints.

The question at that point is, “Is the Rev good design?” Certainly not for those who wanted a melee staff to kick kitten with. Maybe it is for those who’ve been moaning about not being able to play dedicated support or tanking. However, absent content where dedicated tank/heals are required, adding another option for healing and what is at best a dubious tanking stance is not going to “fix” the moribund dungeon PuG meta which is the source of most of those complaints.

Staff ele actually gets the most damage when attuned to water. Staff ele is using all attunements. Earth for blast, reflect, defiance stacks, and immobilize. Air for lightning storm and 2 CC for defiance stacks. Fire for lava font, AA, meteor shower. Water for ice bow and for after casting meteor shower as well as the water fields as needed.

Just saying.

I played Beta for 10 min then got bored with the Class its So Slow more than a WoW tank.

Andraus.3874:

Staff ele actually gets the most damage when attuned to water. Staff ele is using all attunements. Earth for blast, reflect, defiance stacks, and immobilize. Air for lightning storm and 2 CC for defiance stacks. Fire for lava font, AA, meteor shower. Water for ice bow and for after casting meteor shower as well as the water fields as needed.

Just saying.

Water weapon skills have low damage coefficients. The Water spec line features a synergy that allows for higher damage from an ongoing fire skill and a conjure utility. This proves rather than disproves my point, else you’d have been saying that Eles use Water skills to do damage.

Could Revenant use a trait something like Piercing Shards? Maybe, but Rev seems to be even more pigeonholed than the existing professions.

I feel I completely missed the whole point of this beta.
Anet wanted us to give them feedback about how revenant performs in PvP, WvW and PvE. I don’t play the former two gametypes, so I am not able to tell how’s revenant doing. According to a lot of people, pretty bad.
But how in the world are we supposed to give Anet feedback about PvE, when they won’t even give us the possibility to play a viable build? Every serious PvE player, even the devs understand that there’s currently no point of playing anything but zerker, power-based build. Maybe they plan on something different for HoT, but we don’t know that yet. If we’re supposed to evaluate revenant’s performance in the current PvE maps and dungeons, we need to be able to make it into something viable.

These whole 3 days were completely pointless (from the PvE’s perspective). There’s absolutely NO WAY we can give positive feedback if we’re only allowed to play some healing nonsense.
If they wanted to reveal only a portion of this class’ mechanics (which I understand), they should have taken the opposite way. Instead of giving us crappy tanking and healing legends and weapons, they should have immediately let us play Shiro/whatever is for power and reveal the healing part later.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

I had a weird feeling this was the case seeing how confined the rev felt.

That aside, I still kinda like the new profession none the less. And just as I assumed, new stuff will be released FOR the rev, which’ll probably add to or subtract from the like.

Also like others had said, this is just for testing things out. seeing how they feel now while things are at the stage they’re at and give feedback as well as report issues and have the wonderful team at Anet improve on our reports. Even if it’s a little bit negative it helps them in the long run.

P.S. Anet thanks for being an awesome company!

I get that it’s more an alpha than a beta, and I’m good with that. I do hope that later we get to preview the “finished” class, which will allow people a better idea of what they will be getting into.

i see a lot of people are saying “well its a incomplete class” yes… true.

so they should make phase smash work as intended. right now i cannot hit someone on the ground if i am on the wall. I can target the ground tho.

2nd i played an incomplete mesmer, by intentionally making it incomplete. i used a off hand torch only… healing signet, disenchanter, 2 condi signet and time warp. random traits that i cannot even remember, but im sure its not very well optimized.

i can take down a packbull mob, i die with the rev.

there is clearly a problem, but that can be fixed with number adjustments. but some skills needs tweaking too.. that dwarf taunt.. 50 energy, too expensive for what it does, doesnt get used. that should not be an intended design. so lets look at that. ive also notice that its hard to gauge how close i have to be for it to works, shouldnt this be full range 1200? or is it…? i couldnt get it to work with hammer at max range.

the worlds most useless stun breaker, elite move from dwarf legend. yes i broke my stun, i also get killed in casting it. so lets look at that, im sure that is not the intended design.

downstate… needs some adjustment. i dont think i’ve ever pulled off skill 3 before i died, so I cannot tell what it does. skill 2 displacement is cool, but unpredictable. i literally pulled a monster next to me to kill me one time. not sure if this is intended. but needs to be re-evaluated.

i heard they are adjusting upkeep skills not being possible to use ooc, so ill leave that alone.

ventari stone is bugged when i die with it. i couldnt resummon it until i refresh my legend.

can we make mace 2 long enough for a double might stacking from skill 3 blast combo? we wont be able to stack pass 12 anyway based on cooldown. a few class got methods to stack to 25 easily. and many class can get 9-10 reliably. i cant seem to blast pass 9, because i would have to land it so perfectly to get a double. not sure if this is intended, but i do believe revenant can benefit from might stacking.

yup.. thats kinda it for now… but yeah off hand torch mesmer has a easier time doing things than a… 40%???? finished revenant.

p.s. got on my theif later and saw some incredible numbers like a 12k bs. then quickly getting into “haste” and jabbed a bunch of 4k values. i am just emphasizing that the revenant damage should be adjusted before the next beta weekend. this would give the class a better overall feel… and understanding if there are problem with skills. right now… very slow and carefully killing one monster actually gives players a false sense of failure to the class.

I think it’s too soon to criticise ‘the lack of a dps weapon’ since we all know it’s coming later. Same for traits.

My only problem with revenant as it is now is the lack of a weapon swap. I keep imagining doing dungeons/fractals or the sort on a revenant and having to swap between melee and ranged weapon every so often.

One could argue it’s the same for ele but I don’t think it is. They usually have a weapon set they prefer and don’t swap off it. Honestly, has anyone seen ele in a dungeon with mainhand dagger? Their main damage weapon is the staff, which is also ranged, so they have no problem running through multiple different boss fights, be it ranged or melee and they don’t have to stop to change weapon sets. And engis have their kits.

Revenant will have to pause before fights and consider if they want to range or melee the whole fight. This is my only concern atm.

I like the idea of the class… it needs weapon swapping for starters to improve it. The damage is real poor and so far there’s 1 trait that gives damage modifiers based on self condition counts.

This is not really ideal in group play, my teammates are never going to let condi’s just sit on me and that’s not even counting light field whirl cleansing bolts occasionally being thrown around.

I would suggest adding a stacking buff based on when you receive conditions which enhances your condition and direct damage per stack.

Invocation feels like a mandatory line for any decent pvp build which means you’ll take that and what ever other 2 legend trait lines you’re using. Inspiring reinforcement takes far too long to gain stability from it in the middle of actual fights. Elites feel too unrewarding, you give up too much to use most of them.

To those who are defending how lackluster Rev feels at the moment with just simply “It’s Beta”… please keep in mind this is not an open beta. People have already fully Prepaid 50-100 dollars for this class,everything else in HoT, and beta access. So even if its beta there will be salt.

Knighthonor.4061:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Jordo.5913:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

that shouldnt stop us from being able to do competitive dps with other legends, if a guardian specs into pure shouts to support, they can still do really good dps with their weapon, and that is simply not the case with Revenant, it feels like if i choose ventari as a legend and equip staff, then im only dpsing for the healing orbs to drop because my damage is laughable

im in full zerk gear and all the weapons hit like im wielding a wet noodle

How much damage does a glass Ele deal in Water Attunement? Or how much damage does he do in Earth, with no Condi stat? How about a glass Engineer using Med Kit? It’s pretty obvious that the Centaur/Dwarf legends are serving functions similar to Water/Earth attunements while simultaneously serving as poster children for the “I wanna play a tank/healer!” crowd.

Power/Crit is only part of the damage equation. Weapon coefficients can either empower attacks or emasculate them. Did you really expect a legend that was described by players as “pumping out large amounts of healing” to do damage comparable to weapons that don’t provide that sustain? I didn’t. I also would not be surprised if Dragonhunter ranged damage is also low to make up for its “support.”

I’m afraid if you want to do high DPS on a Rev, you’re going to have to do it on the DPS legend, the method with the ANet stamp of approval, just as if you want to do the most damage with an Ele, you’d better like slinging fire.

last time I checked. Med kit was heal skill, not a whole weapon set.

and Water Eles still have 3 other attunements while in combat for added damage. guess how many Revenant has,,,,

Well Ele do also have effects (Evasive Arcana) from swapping attunements which will provide different skill depending on in which attunement one make will a dodge.

Chokolata.1870:

Well, not all classes can do solid DPS in dungeons. Look at Ranger and Necromancer. Even Warriors are bad when compared to Thief and Elementalist when it comes to damage.

This tells me that you really don’t know what you are talking about. Zerk rangers and zerk well necros do a lot of dps in pve. Warriors far outstrip Thieves in DPS with might stacking Phalanx builds.

All of them have higher dps than Revenant at the moment in any revenant build.

Stinja.9612:

I like the idea of the class… it needs weapon swapping for starters to improve it. The damage is real poor and so far there’s 1 trait that gives damage modifiers based on self condition counts.

This is not really ideal in group play, my teammates are never going to let condi’s just sit on me and that’s not even counting light field whirl cleansing bolts occasionally being thrown around.

Exactly. In a dungeon team with others it’s near impossible to keep conditions on since a lot of classes have aoe condition cleanse so that mechanic while different and new is not a good one.

In a wvw or pvp setting it’s the same problem that groups have except magnified and it’s also not helpful to have too many conditions on you because if your zerg isn’t good enough to cleanse conditions off you’re going to wipe regardless.

There’s maybe some minor practical applications in solo roaming in wvw but that’s about it.

The main problem I see is that the devs went overboard and focused too much on innovation and new mechanics that they don’t realize that just because something is new doesn’t mean it’s better. And as a result they came up with something that is thematically great but broken when it comes to practicality or quality of life.

Kythan Myr.4719:

Just saying every map I’ve gone to is complaining about Rev. Before this weeks beta testing everyone was excited, and all I’ve heard today is to not bring them to this or that event. Some points are valid like they are not complete but isn’t the whole point to be testing and trying to push the limits of what’ there? So wouldn’t it make sense to put them in those situations? Granted it would make even more sense if the profession was complete.

It’s ironic because when it’s finished and finalized everyone will be complaining about the balancing and the bugs, and be asking Anet why they didn’t do more testing before they released it.

You just can’t make anyone happy anymore can you?

There is a big difference in simply complaining about revenant, and addressing issues with revenant.

The whole purpose of a beta is for developers to gather information from their playerbase.

Sorry some of it is negative… but only giving positive feedback when there are issues that need to be addressed isn’t going to help the players or the developers.

Feedback is a good thing…. you can still be a super brown-nozed fanboy after giving constructive criticism. But just telling someone something was great even if it wasn’t is not the right thing to do.

Shiren.9532:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

I’m curious. Does the intense criticism of three alternate play styles (bunker, condi and healing/support), leading to a near consensus dismissal of the revenant as it is, concern the design and balance team about the state of GW2 PvE?

Each profession has five core specialisations and revenants have access to three (four?) of them currently. Despite this, the simple fact that the play styles they have (despite equaling the build power level of a meta DPS build) does not include the one single play style (DPS) has completely lost player’s interest. This comes after demo criticisms that the revenant needed to be in zerker gear.

To me this is a massive red flag that the game has a big problem with zerker as the only desired build type and the diversity and depth offered by numerous other weapons, traits and stats is not being tapped into.

Do you see this as a revenant problem, or a PvE problem? Personally I’m falling on the later.

It’s not a matter of the zerk meta. Revenant is comparatively underpowered in any build type. Condition, support, dps, tanking, it’s underpowered across the board.

That’s easy to tweak though since it’s just tweaking damage or support numbers or adding an aegis effect here and there.

The core flaw is the fact that it only has 1 weapon which locks it into a very restrictive build The swapped utilities don’t help either since those also favor specific builds which means you will end up having a lot of useless utilities.

The only way this can be solved is either by adding weapon slot, or allowing for people to customize their utilities and have utilities have effects based on the stance rather than just getting the full set of utilities preset for that stance when most likely most of them will be useless to your current build.

Alternatively stances can follow the logic for ele attunements and grant different attacks based on stance based on weapon.

I once got a copy of the first Wolverine movie BEFORE the special effects were put in. Complaining about the Rev NOW is the same thing.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

I once got a copy of the first Wolverine movie BEFORE the special effects were put in. Complaining about the Rev NOW is the same thing.

It’s really not. The problems people are complaining about in the Rev are largely issues that can’t be fixed by tweaking a couple modifiers or adding a couple legends, which is all we can reasonably expect at this stage of development. The fundamental design of the revenant is already finalized, and as it stands the profession is lined up so that once you’ve played with/against it for an hour, you’ve seen everything the class has to offer.

99% of the complaints outside of “DPS is lackluster” stem from this problem, and it’s a “drawing board” problem. That’s why everyone wants weapon switching, or utility customization, or weapon skills to change with legend—all of these are trying to get at the problem that there’s no variety to the Rev, and no dev has even hinted that they plan to do anything about it.

Do you see this as a revenant problem, or a PvE problem? Personally I’m falling on the later. I agree Shiren. I still think the last patch to our traits was the first step in getting away from this, but does the population want to?

I’m with you Abnaxis. Just saying I will judge it at a later date. And also think some of those polishes people are screaming for might take away from the feel of the class. Choice of legend to weapon I think will always remain a static thing.
Fix the DPS and people will accept boring, uncomplicated, and vanilla. They want to burn things down as fast as possible

DresdenAllblack.1249:

I’m with you Abnaxis. Just saying I will judge it at a later date. And also think some of those polishes people are screaming for might take away from the feel of the class. Choice of legend to weapon I think will always remain a static thing.
Fix the DPS and people will accept boring, uncomplicated, and vanilla. They want to burn things down as fast as possible

Given the way people embrace the meta, I wouldn’t argue that there aren’t many players willing to accept uncomplicated vanilla as long as they get their DPS.

However, I’m not one of them, and from all the threads of “please let this be the end of ‘go zerk or go home’ meta” in response to the changes in condis, I don’t think I’m alone. In fact, I think ANet might agree with me—a big consequence of specializations is that you aren’t locked into a single set of traits, even if you want to spec full glass-canon, and I’m pretty sure that was deliberate. On elementalist, for example, I can leverage every single trait line to get more DPS with different play-styles.

As a class, revenant seems like a face-heel turn in the other direction, from what I want and from what ANet seems to want to create. If I want to direct DPS on a rev, I have to use Shiro. I have to trait Shiro, I have to channel Shiro, I have to use the Shiro weapon set and only the Shiro weapon set, and I don’t even have the capacity to switch out one or two utilities to make it fit my style better. It’s like one step forward and two steps back.

Also agreed, I run builds that may or not be inferior just because I enjoy them. We are in the minority here though with DPS.

It also makes me wonder just how close HoT is.

DeathPanel.8362:

Shiren.9532:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sonickeyblade.8415:

Randulf.7614:

I suspect swords will come if shiro is indeed the 4th spec, which strong indications show

Remember, the beta isn’t the full Rev, so plenty to be added yet

That’s pretty fair. I know it’s a beta but I thought all the specs were released/revealed already for it.

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

I’m curious. Does the intense criticism of three alternate play styles (bunker, condi and healing/support), leading to a near consensus dismissal of the revenant as it is, concern the design and balance team about the state of GW2 PvE?

Each profession has five core specialisations and revenants have access to three (four?) of them currently. Despite this, the simple fact that the play styles they have (despite equaling the build power level of a meta DPS build) does not include the one single play style (DPS) has completely lost player’s interest. This comes after demo criticisms that the revenant needed to be in zerker gear.

To me this is a massive red flag that the game has a big problem with zerker as the only desired build type and the diversity and depth offered by numerous other weapons, traits and stats is not being tapped into.

Do you see this as a revenant problem, or a PvE problem? Personally I’m falling on the later.

It’s not a matter of the zerk meta. Revenant is comparatively underpowered in any build type. Condition, support, dps, tanking, it’s underpowered across the board.

That’s easy to tweak though since it’s just tweaking damage or support numbers or adding an aegis effect here and there.

The core flaw is the fact that it only has 1 weapon which locks it into a very restrictive build The swapped utilities don’t help either since those also favor specific builds which means you will end up having a lot of useless utilities.

The only way this can be solved is either by adding weapon slot, or allowing for people to customize their utilities and have utilities have effects based on the stance rather than just getting the full set of utilities preset for that stance when most likely most of them will be useless to your current build.

Alternatively stances can follow the logic for ele attunements and grant different attacks based on stance based on weapon.

Yeah, I’m with Death Panel. I watched my roommate play in Ventari, and his damage with berserker with staff was 2/3’s or less of what I can get v. Orr Risen with a Necro dagger-user in bunker gear using a Blood build, which has comparable survivability.
This is a weapon skill coefficient issue. The damage price Rev is paying for its heals and whatever it is that Jalis provides is steep in comparison to its benefits.

What I find concerning is this. If Ventari and Jalis are designed to provide inferior damage to scratch the itch of those who say, “But I want to heal (tank) and not do damage.”, ANet is basically allocating 40% or more of the new profession to one segment of the population, when Rev is one of the main points of worth for the expansion — which they presumably want to make attractive to as many as possible Existing professions can also be geared/traited for support provision but don’t feel as pigeonholed. Rev’s lack of versatility in combat and its apparent lack of comparable results no matter the gear seems to me to be the issue.

The problem I see with such low dps, is that you end up not getting credit for things.

Don’t do enough damage, and you don’t get counted, and don’t get rewarded.
Even in the past I’ve run into issues where people killed things faster than I could even tag, and I couldn’t get credit for participating in the event, or get drops.
(an event scaling issue then, but if now I do far less damage it puts me in the same spot)

If Shiro is the only legend that’s capable of outputting enough DPS to be worthwhile it’s all people will run if they want credit/reward for doing things.
(and all people will allow you to bring)
LF1M shiro or gt*o

Worse, the game does not reward supporting allies. In fact it often punishes it.
I’ve had times I stopped to res one or two people and that cost me credit for the event chain and I got nothing.
(how dare I want loot for participating in the event right?)
So why would I play a spec/class designed to focus on helping my allies when I’m just going to get punished for it? (and can’t even help enough to warrant how useless I am?)
Are we going to see the holy trinity resurrected in the revenant, as all 3 in 1?
Cause that’s kind of the direction it seems to be going, from all specs relevant to each only viable in very niche roles.