Guild Wars 2

Here are a few changes that I think will help make some Revanant legends/traits better for more build diversity. Feel free to post any ideas you have as well.

Legend Changes

Centaur Stance:

-Project Tranquility should have an effect radius of 360. The current radius on most of the tablet skills is too small making them difficult to use. It would also help to make the effect radius on these skills a bit more visible. The healing pulse from this skill should also scale better with Healing Power, at about a 0.15 coefficient.

-Ventari’s Will should have its cool down decreased to 3 seconds. The last increase from 2 to 4 seconds was a bit too much. It should also heal a bit more (staying at about half as much as Natural Harmony), and it should cripple enemies that it passes through.

-Protective Solace has a bug where the upkeep energy drain from Protective Solace stays on after Ventari’s Tablet despawns when you move outside of its tether distance. You can still deactivate it manually, but it should automatically since the tablet is no longer in world and thus no longer blocking projectiles.

-Natural Harmony should have an effect radius of 360, and it could heal for a bit more than it does currently (maybe about 25% more).

-Purifying Essence should have an effect radius of 360, and it should additionally be a stun break.

-Energy Expulsion should have a decreased delay time so it can be used as an interrupt more easily. It should also blind/cripple nearby foes.

Dwarf Stance:

-Inspiring Reinforcement is a bit underwhelming due to the high energy cost while also not being a stun breaker. The energy cost could maybe be reduced to 25, and it should be an instant cast stun break skill. Also, the duration of the pulsing stability should be increased to 2 seconds to give you a bit more flexibility in your positioning.

-Forced Engagement has too high of an energy cost since it’s a single target skill. An energy cost of 25 seems more fitting.

-Vengeful Hammers has a bug where it deactivates when standing next to a wall or on uneven surfaces. Other than that it seems pretty solid.

-Rite of the Great Dwarf should have a 0.25s cast time and no longer be a stun break. The 50% condition damage reduction from Versed in Stone should be included by default. Currently, if you get interrupted before it finishes casting you still lose all 50 energy for (maybe) a stun break, which is too punishing especially given its long cast time. Since this skill is no longer stun break it should only use the 50 energy if it successfully finishes casting.

Demon Stance:

-Empowering Misery should also grant 1-3 seconds of resistance, even if only to ensure that the heal is unaffected by poison. This will help make Demonic Defiance not feel quite as necessary to take.

-Banish Enchantment should have its range increased to 900. It should only apply 2 stacks of confusion by default, with an additional stack for each boon removed. Reduce the duration of the applied confusion to 5 seconds.

Trait Changes

Corruption:

-Replenishing Despair should scale better with Healing Power, at about a 0.1 coefficient.

-Venom Enhancement should have its cool down reduced to 10 seconds. Reduce the poison duration increase to +33%.

-Frigid Precision should also cause you to inflict 3 stacks of vulnerability for 6 seconds when you chill someone.

-Spontaneous Destruction should have its cool down reduced to 20 seconds. It’s even less likely to pierce multiple foes than the actual skill since you can’t really control when this one activates.

-Pulsating Pestilence is currently bugged and only applies torment from Embrace the Darkness.

Retribution:

-Improved Aggression should be changed to: Incoming movement-impeding conditions have their durations reduced by 33%. Gain 3s of retaliation when you are affected by one of these conditions (10s ICD).

-Unwavering Avoidance should have the Stability duration increased to 3 seconds.

-Retaliatory Evasion should have the Retaliation duration increased to 3 seconds.

-Empowering Vengeance should additionally make your Retaliation deal 50% more damage.

-Versed in Stone should have the condition damage reduction portion included in Rite of the Great Dwarf by default.

-Steadfast Rejuvenation should prevent poison from hindering your heals and should grant you 5 seconds of regeneration on an incoming poison (5s ICD).

Salvation:

-Disarming Riposte should have its cool down reduced to 15 seconds.

-Eluding Nullification should have its cool down decreased to 5 seconds.

-Momentary Pacification should be change to: Enemy skills that you interrupt have their cool down increased by 10 seconds. Immobilize enemies that you interrupt for 2 seconds (10s ICD).

-Natural Abundance should additionally cause energy fragments to grant 2 seconds of vigor.

Invocation:

-Fierce Infusion should grant you 150 Ferocity while under the effects of Fury instead. There are already enough Fury sources from this trait line and else where.

-Invigorating Flow should have its healing increased to about 500 with a 0.2 Healing Power coefficient. It should also switch places with Cleansing Channel in the adept tier.

-Cleansing Channel should switch places with Invigorating Flow in the Master tier. It should now remove one condition from you periodically while you have an upkeep skill on (5s ICD).

-Equilibrium should have its healing portion increased to about 500 with a 0.4 Healing Power coefficient.

Devastation:

-Ferocious Strikes should be changed so you gain 7% of your power as ferocity. Currently this trait is sort of a duplicate (and lesser) version of Vicious Lacerations because the only one handed weapons that Revenants can dual wield besides a sword is a main-hand mace and an off-hand axe, both of which are condition orientated which ferocity doesn’t benefit much. This will help staff and hammer users have an option to increase their damage as well.

-Jade Echo should have its cool down reduced to 45 seconds.

So you want to make the class nearly everyone cry about “op!!!11” even stronger?

Well, some ideas go in the right direction, but others are just op.
I’ll check the details tomorrow.

Van Bergen.5084:

So you want to make the class nearly everyone cry about “op!!!11” even stronger?

Well, some ideas go in the right direction, but others are just op.
I’ll check the details tomorrow.

Yep he is going overboard on condi cleanse.
Also you are buffing quite a few skills that don’t require buffs.

Varezenem.2813:

Yep he is going overboard on condi cleanse.
Also you are buffing quite a few skills that don’t require buffs.

Do you mean the suggested Ventari/Salvation trait line buffs would be too much condi cleanse? The only other improved condi cleanse suggestion was to Cleansing Channel which would be Master tier now. Taking it would require Revenants to give up some of their insta-burst potential from Equilibrium. Also which skills do you think are already strong enough that got buffed?

Van Bergen.5084:

So you want to make the class nearly everyone cry about “op!!!11” even stronger?

Well, some ideas go in the right direction, but others are just op.
I’ll check the details tomorrow.

Well the changes here don’t touch Glint/Shiro or their trait lines really, which is the current meta. So that meta that people might be complaining about shouldn’t really get stronger from this. But there could be something I’m over looking, so some more details could be helpful.

The main change I wasn’t too sure about was with Embrace the Darkness. It just seems like Revenant already has a lot of different skills to apply torment and doesn’t currently make much use of Venom Enhancement. Maybe the change to Venom Enhancement would be enough, or maybe the poison application could be moved somewhere else.

Edit: Yeah I went ahead and removed the suggestion for Embrace the Darkness. I think the change to Venom Enhancement should be enough.

Raiden.1375:

Varezenem.2813:

Yep he is going overboard on condi cleanse.
Also you are buffing quite a few skills that don’t require buffs.

Do you mean the suggested Ventari/Salvation trait line buffs would be too much condi cleanse? The only other improved condi cleanse suggestion was to Cleansing Channel which would be Master tier now. Taking it would require Revenants to give up some of their insta-burst potential from Equilibrium. Also which skills do you think are already strong enough that got buffed?

Van Bergen.5084:

So you want to make the class nearly everyone cry about “op!!!11” even stronger?

Well, some ideas go in the right direction, but others are just op.
I’ll check the details tomorrow.

Well the changes here don’t touch Glint/Shiro or their trait lines really, which is the current meta. So that meta that people might be complaining about shouldn’t really get stronger from this. But there could be something I’m over looking, so some more details could be helpful.

The main change I wasn’t too sure about was with Embrace the Darkness. It just seems like Revenant already has a lot of different skills to apply torment and doesn’t currently make much use of Venom Enhancement. Maybe the change to Venom Enhancement would be enough, or maybe the poison application could be moved somewhere else.

The only condi cleanse increase that I agree on is eluding nullification.
While I do believe that you also agree that Ventaris sustain is subpar increasing his condi cleanse isn’t the best way to do it.
Protective Solace’s radius is fine right now at best you can give it some minor pulsing boon like Vigor.
Ventaris will should indeed get a cooldown decrease to 3 by doing so it would be on the same cooldown as before (and synergizes better with bolster fortifications) , radius increase is far too much.
Natural Harmony’s radius increase is too big while the healing is still subpar, delay isn’t a problem right now.
PE again radius is too big stunbreak is fine and was frequently suggested.
Energy expulsion does need to keep the delay as a tell.
On the radius you can increase them to 300 at best beyond that the tablet mechanic starts getting redundand.

On salvation momentary pacification problem is that it’s a refund and trait and interacts badly with almost all elites, see burtniks rework for my suggestion on it.

Natural abundance with Vigor seems fine +1 for that.

Won’t comment about other traits and legends but there are similar mistakes.

Varezenem.2813:

The only condi cleanse increase that I agree on is eluding nullification.
While I do believe that you also agree that Ventaris sustain is subpar increasing his condi cleanse isn’t the best way to do it.
Protective Solace’s radius is fine right now at best you can give it some minor pulsing boon like Vigor.
Ventaris will should indeed get a cooldown decrease to 3 by doing so it would be on the same cooldown as before (and synergizes better with bolster fortifications) , radius increase is far too much.
Natural Harmony’s radius increase is too big while the healing is still subpar, delay isn’t a problem right now.
PE again radius is too big stunbreak is fine and was frequently suggested.
Energy expulsion does need to keep the delay as a tell.
On the radius you can increase them to 300 at best beyond that the tablet mechanic starts getting redundand.

On salvation momentary pacification problem is that it’s a refund and trait and interacts badly with almost all elites, see burtniks rework for my suggestion on it.

Natural abundance with Vigor seems fine +1 for that.

Won’t comment about other traits and legends but there are similar mistakes.

Awesome suggestion for Momentary Pacification, I added it in. On Ventari’s Will and Protective Solace, I agree that their current radius is good, and I didn’t suggest that those 2 should be increased. As for the radius on the rest of the tablet skills, I think they are too small and confined right now. A radius increase to 300 would help, but I think 360 is probably the sweet spot.

I suggest that you don’t try to buff Unwavering Avoidance, that trait is alrdy too powerful. Revs can just dodge out of guardian wards, and that shouldn’t happen ever. Rev needs another source of stability that isn’t passive crap like the current Unwavering Avoidance.

And Cleansing Channel could remove 1 condi per 10 secs, that would bring it in line with other similar traits.

Yannir.4132:

I suggest that you don’t try to buff Unwavering Avoidance, that trait is alrdy too powerful. Revs can just dodge out of guardian wards, and that shouldn’t happen ever. Rev needs another source of stability that isn’t passive crap like the current Unwavering Avoidance.

And Cleansing Channel could remove 1 condi per 10 secs, that would bring it in line with other similar traits.

I’m sure that you are in the wrong subforum the problem never was unwavering avoidance.

Sorry, i dont had the time for all, but i try´d.
In short, most times its just the numbers of range/streng or too much additional funtions of the skills.
In general, revenant is weaker against conditions, but really strong in many other ways.
Change this with more condicleanse or even an poisen-immune heal is not the best idea.

-Project Tranquility
360-450 radis is way too much.
240ér AOE is huge enough, 450 would go over the whole screen.
Maxium increase to 300, not more.
0,15 coefficient is +200% more.
Way too much, start with 25%-50% more.
Better decrease the intervall to 1 ore 2 sec and decrease the healing, so you have more and more frequent heal in the end.

-Ventari’s Will
Cooldown to 3 sec….wy not.
When spamming weaponskills and other heals we dont have time and energy, to spam this skill on cooldown anyway.
But not with condicleanse.
3 sek cooldown AOE-Condicleanse for 10e is too cheap, and ventari already has his condicleanse, he has to really carfull to use.
What this skill needs too, is the visibylity of the way it travels.
Like the Stoneroad.
With this, we can see and plan, which way to send the tablet.

-Natural Harmony
As before, max 200 radius, 360-450 is too much.
The 1 sec delay is ok, so its no brainless fireandforget heal.
More heal is difficult, the skill is cheap and Ventari has more then one heal we can chain on another.
Make one Heal too easy and too cheap, and we dont chain, but spam the best Heal instead.

-Purifying Essence
Too much radius, and please no AOE stunbreak.
Stunbreak when, then only for yourself.

-Energy Expulsion
This skill already has too many functions, so build in even more AND make it even easier to use is not the best way.
More functions only by offering per trait.
The thing on this skill, what bug me on this skill the most is the Heal coming from the shards, players have to pick up.
Make this a Field, a ring, a barrier, or an simple AOE-Heal, but these bundles are nothing, we can play and with.

But, bring in Cripple or other CC to ventari is a good idea!
Wy not Cripple on Ventaris will?
Then the skill would have a offensive/cc use too!

Dwarf Stance:

-Inspiring Reinforcement
Lesser enery cost OR instant AOE-Stunbreak.
Both is just too much.
I would prefer lesser costs, instant aoe Stunbreak is just too much anyway.
And with your ventari-ideas, rev. would have 2x Aoe Stunbreak.

-Forced Engagement
Lesser cost, sure.
But problem is the missing PvE/Pve-Split.
Lesser costs would be really usefull for PvE, but too good for PvP.

-Vengeful Hammers
Jepp, debug this would be reaaaally nice.

-Rite of the Great Dwarf
Is this elite this broken, so we have to change the funktion this harsh?
Build in a strong trait an make it instant is just too much.
The stunbreak is really usefull in PvE, so you dont have to swap the Legends for stunbreak.

Demon Stance:

-Empowering Misery
The skill already profits from conditions, so heal with immunity to poison is a bit too much.

-Banish Enchantment
Make the skill stronger OR increase range.
Both is way too much.
And dont forget the “unblockable”, or that its an AOE.

Trait Changes

Corruption:

-Replenishing Despair
0,1 scaling from 0,01….yeah, its only 1000% more….(^^)
This would be the same scaling like the 2.effect from -Empowering MiseryMisery
But every 1 sek and without cost.
Start with 0,015 or 0,2 sacling.

Yannir.4132:

I suggest that you don’t try to buff Unwavering Avoidance, that trait is alrdy too powerful. Revs can just dodge out of guardian wards, and that shouldn’t happen ever. Rev needs another source of stability that isn’t passive crap like the current Unwavering Avoidance.

Revenants can’t just dodge out of Guardian wards or other skills like that unless they already have stability, in which case they could just walk out of it too. Sometimes you can dodge and get the stability to proc while inside, but only after you bump into the ward and knocks you back inside for about a second, and only then could they walk out.

Van Bergen.5084:

-Project Tranquility
360-450 radis is way too much.
240ér AOE is huge enough, 450 would go over the whole screen.
Maxium increase to 300, not more.
0,15 coefficient is +200% more.
Way too much, start with 25%-50% more.
Better decrease the intervall to 1 ore 2 sec and decrease the healing, so you have more and more frequent heal in the end.

Yeah, a 450 radius would most likely be too much on these skills, but the current 240 radius is just about as silly in my opinion since it limits your positioning/movement too much. I think 360 would be the ideal radius. As for the healing scaling (you used this argument against the suggested change to Replenishing Despair as well), I just compared how well this skill scales with other tablet skills etc, and currently this skill in particular scales pretty horribly in comparison. The suggested 0.15 coefficient would bring the healing power scale to base heal ratio almost exactly in line with Natural Harmony for instance.

Van Bergen.5084:

-Purifying Essence
Too much radius, and please no AOE stunbreak.
Stunbreak when, then only for yourself.

I don’t really think an aoe stun break would be too powerful given the cool down and energy cost of the skill. But yeah either this skill or possibly Energy Expulsion should stun break, at least for yourself.

Van Bergen.5084:

-Energy Expulsion
The thing on this skill, what bug me on this skill the most is the Heal coming from the shards, players have to pick up.
Make this a Field, a ring, a barrier, or an simple AOE-Heal, but these bundles are nothing, we can play and with.

But, bring in Cripple or other CC to ventari is a good idea!
Wy not Cripple on Ventaris will?
Then the skill would have a offensive/cc use too!

Well hopefully the fragments will be more worth picking up when they grant vigor from the suggested change to Natural Abundance. Also, having Ventari’s Will cripple enemies that it passes through would be cool. I added that in instead of the condition cleanse.

Van Bergen.5084:

-Inspiring Reinforcement
Lesser enery cost OR instant AOE-Stunbreak.
Both is just too much.
I would prefer lesser costs, instant aoe Stunbreak is just too much anyway.
And with your ventari-ideas, rev. would have 2x Aoe Stunbreak.

I’m not suggesting that this skill be an aoe stun break. I think it should only stun break yourself. Also, the stone road would still take a little bit of time to create like it does now, so it would be fully built only 1/4 of a second quicker (the current cast time).

Van Bergen.5084:

-Forced Engagement
Lesser cost, sure.
But problem is the missing PvE/Pve-Split.
Lesser costs would be really usefull for PvE, but too good for PvP.

Maybe you are right about this skill needing a split for PVE/PVP, but I still think the skill probably costs a bit too much energy even for PVP. Maybe a 30 energy cost would be better for PVP.

Van Bergen.5084:

-Rite of the Great Dwarf
Is this elite this broken, so we have to change the funktion this harsh?
Build in a strong trait an make it instant is just too much.
The stunbreak is really usefull in PvE, so you dont have to swap the Legends for stunbreak.

This skill just feels incomplete without the condition damage reduction, and it basically locks you in to taking Versed in Stone when you take Retribution and Jalis. Besides, Versed in Stone is still really strong compared to the other GM trait options, even if the condition damage reduction portion is just made baseline in RotGD.

Van Bergen.5084:

-Empowering Misery
The skill already profits from conditions, so heal with immunity to poison is a bit too much.

I think Mallyx is a bit too weak to conditions currently without taking Demonic Defiance. This change should help not pigeon hole you into taking Demonic Defiance by default, allowing the other adept traits to be used more often as well. Also, the profit from conditions is likely negated by poison currently anyway since it doesn’t actually clear any conditions.

Van Bergen.5084:

-Banish Enchantment
Make the skill stronger OR increase range.
Both is way too much.
And dont forget the “unblockable”, or that its an AOE.

The suggested change, other than the range increase, isn’t necessarily stronger. It would have diminishing returns/be weaker if you spam it or if the target just doesn’t have 2+ boons, and with the decreased duration on confusion it shouldn’t really be much stronger even when it successfully removes boons. I guess the confusion change wouldn’t really be needed, but I think it would be a bit more interesting.

On Ventari I specifically disagree with you on the healing output of NH.
NH can and has to have its healing increased, VW can probably get the same increase considering that right now both have the same cost/healing.
The reason NH can have the output increased is that it only has big numbers if you compare the total healing output to a druid or a tempests you’ll see that Ventari is UP.
If you throw into the equation the ease of landing those heals druids and tempests win by a large margin.

Varezenem.2813:

On Ventari I specifically disagree with you on the healing output of NH.
NH can and has to have its healing increased, VW can probably get the same increase considering that right now both have the same cost/healing.
The reason NH can have the output increased is that it only has big numbers if you compare the total healing output to a druid or a tempests you’ll see that Ventari is UP.
If you throw into the equation the ease of landing those heals druids and tempests win by a large margin.

Yeah I’ve started looking into how much Druids/Tempests heal for and Ventari heals seem to fall quite a bit short, especially since Revenants have to use all of their energy to try to heal as much, and then they can’t really do anything else for a while until it regenerates. It’s even a bit worse considering Ventari has no water fields which scale exceptionally well with larger groups blasting them. I’m not exactly sure how much more NH/VW would have to heal for to be on par though.

Also, I added a bug I found with Protective Solace in the OP:

Raiden.1375:

-Protective Solace has a bug where the upkeep energy drain from Protective Solace stays on after Ventari’s Tablet despawns when you move outside of its tether distance. You can still deactivate it manually, but it should automatically since the tablet is no longer in world and thus no longer blocking projectiles.

Raiden.1375:

Varezenem.2813:

On Ventari I specifically disagree with you on the healing output of NH.
NH can and has to have its healing increased, VW can probably get the same increase considering that right now both have the same cost/healing.
The reason NH can have the output increased is that it only has big numbers if you compare the total healing output to a druid or a tempests you’ll see that Ventari is UP.
If you throw into the equation the ease of landing those heals druids and tempests win by a large margin.

Yeah I’ve started looking into how much Druids/Tempests heal for and Ventari heals seem to fall quite a bit short, especially since Revenants have to use all of their energy to try to heal as much, and then they can’t really do anything else for a while until it regenerates. It’s even a bit worse considering Ventari has no water fields which scale exceptionally well with larger groups blasting them. I’m not exactly sure how much more NH/VW would have to heal for to be on par though.

In my estimations it’s around 30% on NH and VW. Staff 4 and shield 4 should also get a better scaling.

Raiden, in my experience the Grandmaster traits in all skill lines have at least 1 trait which synergizes with the elite skills from unrelated legends:

examples:
diabolic inferno + shiro’s ultimate jade winds = the least inspired example in this list
momentary pacification + rite of the great dwarf (the one in game) = daze on stun break is op as kitten in my eyes
diabolic inferno + momentary pacification + embrace the darkness/the elite from glint = masive bs, which can be spammed on a 10 sec cooldown

Personaly I feel that Versed in Stone should be remade to give either the 6 rune bonus from Meleandru and/or somwhere between 3 and 5 stacks of Stability to the Revenant whenever he uses an Elite skill for a 50 sec cooldown. Totaly unsure if the revenants allies should be able to benefit from this version of Versed in stone