Guild Wars 2

Kidel.2057:

What makes me laugh is that Guardian and Warriors used to be the best classes in the old keyfarming (whan you had access to all story quests since lv1) because of heavy armor and good mobility with base skills.
Hearing that for some people Guardian lacks mobility and doesn’t have 100% swiftness uptime makes me wonder if we are playing the same game at all.

They don’t want to use the tools that give them the swiftness uptime. It would be like an engineer complaining that they have to trait into the Tools line to get perma-swiftness therefore it doesn’t exist. I mean, yeah, that’s how it works. Warriors don’t have permanent swiftness without the warhorn, and there are more useful weapons to be running around with in combat.

Low-level Guardians (pre-weapon swap) may find it difficult for swiftness because the Staff is an all-around terrible weapon damage-wise, but everything is more difficult at low levels too.

Sigil of Speed. I use it on my warrior also. It’s one of my favorite sigils! I know there’s other meta sigils to use but i care not as long as im always running at 33%+. My dungeon GS has strength and speed sigil and i love it!

MiniEquine.6014:

Kidel.2057:

What makes me laugh is that Guardian and Warriors used to be the best classes in the old keyfarming (whan you had access to all story quests since lv1) because of heavy armor and good mobility with base skills.
Hearing that for some people Guardian lacks mobility and doesn’t have 100% swiftness uptime makes me wonder if we are playing the same game at all.

They don’t want to use the tools that give them the swiftness uptime.

Neither does Kidel with the Revenant.

So I’m not sure if this is intended design, but if you trait for Resistance upon using a Malyx utility skill and to remove a condition on legend swap, you can use Unyielding Anguish at max target length, swap to a separate legend (this will refill your energy level – and with Shiro you could use Impossible Odds until you run out of that energy – making this mobility option even faster. It also removes the Cripple from Unyielding Anguish before the Resistance from the Demonic Defiance trait runs out), swap back to Malyx, refilling your energy to 50 again, and repeat this rotation to essentially leap constantly – which is slightly (but noticeably) faster than someone with 100% swiftness uptime, though it requires much more work to keep doing – so long as you stay out of combat.

For those that need a more visual representation, here’s what you need:

• Legendary Demon Stance
• Demonic Defiance from the Corruption trait line
• Cleansing Channel from the Invocation trait line

The rotation is as follows:
Unyielding Anguish > Swap Legends > (optional use of a reverse Riposting Shadows or Impossible Odds) > Swap Legends > Repeat

Hope that helps some of you with your mobility woes. It’s certainly a lot more work than simply having ample swiftness uptime, but it’s definitely an option for out-of-combat mobility.

EDIT: You can also do this rotation twice when escaping combat before triggering a cooldown on legend swap, making it an escape option in-combat while also making it very hard for most classes to follow you as you escape – especially through choke points like the stairs leading away from mid in Legacy of the Foefire.

Kidel.2057:

To hit the road with hammer skills you have to stop moving. They’re too slow and you can miss the road, so it actually slows you down.
Already talked about mace, please read other replies.
Plus mace combo is something you can’t really use in jumping puzzles if you don’t want to fall.

And what kind of argument is that? Mesmer forces you to use a (really good) offhand weapon or just swap an utility skill for 5 seconds of swiftness every 10.
And that’s the slowest class atm.
Revenant is forced to equip a weapon and a legend just for a combo that actually slows you down.
Is even worse then the slowest class.

A really good offhand weapon? I main mesmer and don’t generally like to use it except in wvw to try and pull people off tower walls, etc.

Hexalot.8194:

Foefaller.1082:

Kidel.2057:

Mace…
Jalis…
did you read my first post in this thread?

Hammer 5
Weapon swap

and unless your an Engineer or Warrior (or a Mace/Jalis Rev), 100% swiftness by yourself is a myth.

Mesmer: Focus 4 skill plus Signit of inspiration equipped. You’re welcome.

And if you REALLY want to move, you can include Blink with Mimic; double blinking is a ton of fun

I think that Inspiring reinforcement should do two things:

1. Grant swiftness
2. Create an actual bridge you can walk across. Graphically just too cool

(of course that would invalidate jps, so that would never happen, but t would be cool lol)

Morfedel.4165:

(snip)

That’s a good opinion too actually, its a road, people do walk faster on roads after all

Made the same suggestion in first post. Glad you read it.
Not talking about the bridge, of course.

Ridiculous.

Well for the rest of us that actually know how to play DPS guardian, we’d like a way to gain more movement speed without crippling our damage potential.

Nobody is talking about combat mobility, just moving from A to B ooc. How many times should we tell you?

Apparently nobody wants to read my last post. ._."

Black Box.9312:

Ridiculous.

Well for the rest of us that actually know how to play DPS guardian, we’d like a way to gain more movement speed without crippling our damage potential.

Guard would destroy everyone with a decent in combat mobility tho. While i hate being a slow turtle, lack of mobility is what keeps them in check actually.

Just eat a spring roll

Black Box.9312:

Ridiculous.

Well for the rest of us that actually know how to play DPS guardian, we’d like a way to gain more movement speed without crippling our damage potential.

If you think you need a meta, optimized, fractal level 50 speed run build for open world exploration and running about, then boy do I have a bridge to sell you!

skowcia.8257:

Black Box.9312:

Ridiculous.

Well for the rest of us that actually know how to play DPS guardian, we’d like a way to gain more movement speed without crippling our damage potential.

Guard would destroy everyone with a decent in combat mobility tho. While i hate being a slow turtle, lack of mobility is what keeps them in check actually.

No, what keeps Guardian in check is the fact that it has very little CC to back up the static AoE that makes up the vast majority of its damage. A +25% movement speed boost isn’t going to suddenly make them OP, as you can clearly see with those who already run Traveler runes.

Black Box.9312:

skowcia.8257:

Black Box.9312:

Ridiculous.

Well for the rest of us that actually know how to play DPS guardian, we’d like a way to gain more movement speed without crippling our damage potential.

Guard would destroy everyone with a decent in combat mobility tho. While i hate being a slow turtle, lack of mobility is what keeps them in check actually.

No, what keeps Guardian in check is the fact that it has very little CC to back up the static AoE that makes up the vast majority of its damage. A +25% movement speed boost isn’t going to suddenly make them OP, as you can clearly see with those who already run Traveler runes.

Traveler runes at the expense of using more powerful, meta runes like strength or hoelbrak.

MiniEquine.6014:

Black Box.9312:

skowcia.8257:

Black Box.9312:

Ridiculous.

Well for the rest of us that actually know how to play DPS guardian, we’d like a way to gain more movement speed without crippling our damage potential.

Guard would destroy everyone with a decent in combat mobility tho. While i hate being a slow turtle, lack of mobility is what keeps them in check actually.

No, what keeps Guardian in check is the fact that it has very little CC to back up the static AoE that makes up the vast majority of its damage. A +25% movement speed boost isn’t going to suddenly make them OP, as you can clearly see with those who already run Traveler runes.

Traveler runes at the expense of using more powerful, meta runes like strength or hoelbrak.

You really think that a more offensive runeset with extra movement speed is going to be the deciding factor that pushes Guardian over the top? Medi Guard has already had its damage nerfed, and it’s only a matter of time before they nerf Burn Guard too. Trust me, a little extra movement speed is not gonna kill off the current meta.

Black Box.9312:

MiniEquine.6014:

Black Box.9312:

skowcia.8257:

Black Box.9312:

Ridiculous.

Well for the rest of us that actually know how to play DPS guardian, we’d like a way to gain more movement speed without crippling our damage potential.

Guard would destroy everyone with a decent in combat mobility tho. While i hate being a slow turtle, lack of mobility is what keeps them in check actually.

No, what keeps Guardian in check is the fact that it has very little CC to back up the static AoE that makes up the vast majority of its damage. A +25% movement speed boost isn’t going to suddenly make them OP, as you can clearly see with those who already run Traveler runes.

Traveler runes at the expense of using more powerful, meta runes like strength or hoelbrak.

You really think that a more offensive runeset with extra movement speed is going to be the deciding factor that pushes Guardian over the top? Medi Guard has already had its damage nerfed, and it’s only a matter of time before they nerf Burn Guard too. Trust me, a little extra movement speed is not gonna kill off the current meta.

There is no meta for open world solo exploration aside from what gives you the most swiftness the most often with leaps, blinks, and super speed included, which is ultimately what this thread is about. Regardless of whether you feel like guardian has enough movement in combat or not (medi guards have the most movement than other guardians), it doesn’t matter in this context.

Black Box.9312:

skowcia.8257:

Black Box.9312:

Ridiculous.

Well for the rest of us that actually know how to play DPS guardian, we’d like a way to gain more movement speed without crippling our damage potential.

Guard would destroy everyone with a decent in combat mobility tho. While i hate being a slow turtle, lack of mobility is what keeps them in check actually.

No, what keeps Guardian in check is the fact that it has very little CC to back up the static AoE that makes up the vast majority of its damage. A +25% movement speed boost isn’t going to suddenly make them OP, as you can clearly see with those who already run Traveler runes.

With +25% speed i can agree – howered by adding that you can pick more powerful runes to increase your damage even more. But more teleports, leaps etc..nah, its not a great idea by any means. Dragonhunter should receive +25% on it gm minor.

MiniEquine.6014:

There is no meta for open world solo exploration aside from what gives you the most swiftness the most often with leaps, blinks, and super speed included, which is ultimately what this thread is about. Regardless of whether you feel like guardian has enough movement in combat or not (medi guards have the most movement than other guardians), it doesn’t matter in this context.

Thank you

Silhouette.5631:

Guardian here. Glad to see another class with mobility as bad as us. Welcome brothers. Also please don’t ever say we have more swiftness options than you. Seriously. Thank you.

Retreat – swiftness shout
Save Yourselves – swiftness shout
Staff – swiftness aoe
GS – leap on a short cd
JI – instant teleport-to-tgt 1200 range
Sword – shadowstep-esque teleport-to-tgt

What the hell are you talking about?

Let’s hope Roy reads and confirms if we can use Impossible Odds for 9 seconds ooc, then doubleswap with no cooldown (ooc) and repeat.

Kidel.2057:

Let’s hope Roy reads and confirms if we can use Impossible Odds for 9 seconds ooc, then doubleswap with no cooldown (ooc) and repeat.

It’s already been confirmed that being unable to use upkeep skills ooc was a bug that should be fixed by next beta weekend, so it’s just a question of whether or not activating Impossible Odds puts Revs in combat or not.

Foefaller.1082:

Kidel.2057:

Let’s hope Roy reads and confirms if we can use Impossible Odds for 9 seconds ooc, then doubleswap with no cooldown (ooc) and repeat.

It’s already been confirmed that being unable to use upkeep skills ooc was a bug that should be fixed by next beta weekend, so it’s just a question of whether or not activating Impossible Odds puts Revs in combat or not.

Isn’t combat determined by striking or being struck by an enemy, not by skill use? I don’t think there’s any skill that would do this right now.

If Revenants could indeed IO for 9 sec and then double swap, that essentially means they would have 9 sec of super speed every 11 seconds (assuming it takes 1 sec to swap legends). This would be an overall speed increase of ~140% compared to full swiftness uptime at 133% or constant 25% for 125%.

Edit: Didn’t realize super speed was also 33%. It turns out to be equal to ~127%, which is slightly less than 100% swiftness uptime but slightly more than flat movement speed

Legendswap is instant now, and superspeed is the same as swiftness

Gav.1425:

Silhouette.5631:

Guardian here. Glad to see another class with mobility as bad as us. Welcome brothers. Also please don’t ever say we have more swiftness options than you. Seriously. Thank you.

Retreat – swiftness shout
Save Yourselves – swiftness shout
Staff – swiftness aoe
GS – leap on a short cd
JI – instant teleport-to-tgt 1200 range
Sword – shadowstep-esque teleport-to-tgt

What the hell are you talking about?

actual viable swiftness that does not force you to stand still or uses up a utility slot for 50% uptime.

Asmodal.6489:

Gav.1425:

Silhouette.5631:

Guardian here. Glad to see another class with mobility as bad as us. Welcome brothers. Also please don’t ever say we have more swiftness options than you. Seriously. Thank you.

Retreat – swiftness shout
Save Yourselves – swiftness shout
Staff – swiftness aoe
GS – leap on a short cd
JI – instant teleport-to-tgt 1200 range
Sword – shadowstep-esque teleport-to-tgt

What the hell are you talking about?

actual viable swiftness that does not force you to stand still or uses up a utility slot for 50% uptime.

Staff gives +20% boon duration if traited; Shouts have 20% CDR if traited; Sigil of Speed grants 20 seconds of swiftness on killing a foe without any ICD.

Open world, out-of-combat exploration does not require optimal DPS gear and traits to do anything. If you want unlimited swiftness you can get it. A Warrior must take a Warhorn; a Necro must take a Warhorn and the utility; a Mesmer must take boon duration, a focus, and Signet of Inspiration; an engineer must constantly equip kits (most optimal is Toolkit which is pretty weak in PvE); Guardian must take staff and shouts.

This isn’t anything new. No class gets +33% movement speed for nothing. Guardians are not lacking in this regard. The thread is still about open-world running about. Combat mobility is an entirely different topic and is not in question in this thread.

Kidel.2057:

Made the same suggestion in first post. Glad you read it.
Not talking about the bridge, of course.

And i made the same suggestion in another thread entirely. It’s not a contest. We agree. Rejoice!!!

Viking Jorun.5413:

Apparently nobody wants to read my last post. ._."

People don’t want a chain of skills to gain mobility that they would gain by having swiftness, a rather common boon.

MiniEquine.6014:

Foefaller.1082:

Kidel.2057:

Let’s hope Roy reads and confirms if we can use Impossible Odds for 9 seconds ooc, then doubleswap with no cooldown (ooc) and repeat.

It’s already been confirmed that being unable to use upkeep skills ooc was a bug that should be fixed by next beta weekend, so it’s just a question of whether or not activating Impossible Odds puts Revs in combat or not.

Isn’t combat determined by striking or being struck by an enemy, not by skill use? I don’t think there’s any skill that would do this right now.

If Revenants could indeed IO for 9 sec and then double swap, that essentially means they would have 9 sec of super speed every 11 seconds (assuming it takes 1 sec to swap legends). This would be an overall speed increase of ~140% compared to full swiftness uptime at 133% or constant 25% for 125%.

Edit: Didn’t realize super speed was also 33%. It turns out to be equal to ~127%, which is slightly less than 100% swiftness uptime but slightly more than flat movement speed

Out of combat, superspeed moves at 400, swiftness at 399; its so close as to be identical. In combat, superspeed is a LOT faster.

Kidel.2057:

Legendswap is instant now, and superspeed is the same as swiftness

out of combat, yes. In combat, as I mentioned above, superspeed is a lot faster.

Still, this really is about ooc travel, so… yes.

Superspeed is currently the same as swiftness in combat. Bug?

Kidel.2057:

Superapeed is currently the same as swiftness in combat. Bug?

I dont think so, iirc its always been like that (eg Engi or Ele pre patch)

If i am informed correctly the incombat speed just caps it at 133%

so just 6.4% faster

Tarkan.5609:

Kidel.2057:

Superapeed is currently the same as swiftness in combat. Bug?

I dont think so, iirc its always been like that (eg Engi or Ele pre patch)

If i am informed correctly the incombat speed just caps it at 133%

No that is wrong 133% is out of combat and incombat cap is 125% base movmentspeed.

See http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_speed

So it’s precisely like swiftness if you don’t have any cripple. And well Revenant has the worst condi cleanse in the game atm.

Kidel.2057:

So it’s precisely like swiftness if you don’t have any cripple. And well Revenant has the worst condi cleanse in the game atm.

Out of combat yes, in combat it should be more since i dont think you can get to the incombat movmentspeed cap with swiftness.

Asmodal.6489:

Gav.1425:

Silhouette.5631:

Guardian here. Glad to see another class with mobility as bad as us. Welcome brothers. Also please don’t ever say we have more swiftness options than you. Seriously. Thank you.

Retreat – swiftness shout
Save Yourselves – swiftness shout
Staff – swiftness aoe
GS – leap on a short cd
JI – instant teleport-to-tgt 1200 range
Sword – shadowstep-esque teleport-to-tgt

What the hell are you talking about?

actual viable swiftness that does not force you to stand still or uses up a utility slot for 50% uptime.

Don’t bother. They clearly don’t understand how WvW roaming works.

The swiftness we are talking here is not meant to be used to be a wvw roamer.
In fact that if IO ends up being usable to run faster is ok should make you understand it.

But I won’t bother with you anymore, since many of us already told you that multiple times and you just don’t get it, or don’t care.

I want a trait that gives 25% movement or at least a utility skill that has 25% movement speed (like eles, thieves, and probably a few more classes have). I don’t mind sacrificing a trait or utility for movement. I shouldn’t have to swap out the runes I want (superior infiltration runes), for runes that give me something as basic as swiftness. I’m looking at you, superior rune of speed.

MiniEquine.6014:

Asmodal.6489:

Gav.1425:

Silhouette.5631:

Guardian here. Glad to see another class with mobility as bad as us. Welcome brothers. Also please don’t ever say we have more swiftness options than you. Seriously. Thank you.

Retreat – swiftness shout
Save Yourselves – swiftness shout
Staff – swiftness aoe
GS – leap on a short cd
JI – instant teleport-to-tgt 1200 range
Sword – shadowstep-esque teleport-to-tgt

What the hell are you talking about?

actual viable swiftness that does not force you to stand still or uses up a utility slot for 50% uptime.

Staff gives +20% boon duration if traited; Shouts have 20% CDR if traited; Sigil of Speed grants 20 seconds of swiftness on killing a foe without any ICD.

Open world, out-of-combat exploration does not require optimal DPS gear and traits to do anything. If you want unlimited swiftness you can get it. A Warrior must take a Warhorn; a Necro must take a Warhorn and the utility; a Mesmer must take boon duration, a focus, and Signet of Inspiration; an engineer must constantly equip kits (most optimal is Toolkit which is pretty weak in PvE); Guardian must take staff and shouts.

This isn’t anything new. No class gets +33% movement speed for nothing. Guardians are not lacking in this regard. The thread is still about open-world running about. Combat mobility is an entirely different topic and is not in question in this thread.

There we have it Sigil of speed, Traveler/speed/centaur runes, and superspeed+lightning blasting should be enough for revenants to explore the world and JPs.

Kidel.2057:

Superspeed is currently the same as swiftness in combat. Bug?

No. I went and tested it to be sure. Superspeed IS FASTER THAN SWIFTNESS IN COMBAT!

We tested it several times in a pvp arena. There is no doubt. In combat, Super Speed is faster.

Its effectively the same as swiftness in combat.

The problem is in combat base speed is 210, out of combat is 300. You then apply the multiplier to whichever base speed you are using.

But there is a max cap of 400 regardless of what speed you are going. So you can never exceed 400.

So for in combat, swiftness speed is 210*1.33 = 279.3, while super speed is 210*2=420 capping at 400.

Out of combat, swiftness is 300*1.33=399, while superspeed again caps at 400; in this case the difference is very little.

Honestly, when it comes to movement speed… what they should have done baseline is similar to what they are doing for fall damage.

In other words, every class should have 25% movement speed added to one of its traits… or a passive effects on a skill like signet, for complete parity between professions I would choose the trait approach and rework the skills that currently grant this for the professions that have them (and do something about Traveler runes, or maybe not).

This way swiftness and superspeed can be the differentiating factors for each profession but everyone has access to same base mobility increase just like everyone has access to a fall damage decrease right now, afaik.

Crise.9401:

Honestly, when it comes to movement speed… what they should have done baseline is similar to what they are doing for fall damage.

In other words, every class should have 25% movement speed added to one of its traits… or a passive effects on a skill like signet, for complete parity between professions I would choose the trait approach and rework the skills that currently grant this for the professions that have them (and do something about Traveler runes, or maybe not).

This way swiftness and superspeed can be the differentiating factors for each profession but everyone has access to same base mobility increase just like everyone has access to a fall damage decrease right now, afaik.

So lets see:

Classes that have the 25% base available:
Necromancer (signet)
Thief (signet)
Engineer (trait)
Warrior(trait)
Ranger (signet)
Elementalist (Signet)

Classes that don’t have it:
Guardian
Mesmer (getting it with elite spec)

Did I miss something on the guardian? I dont know that class well. But if I didn’t it means the guardian will share with the revenant a lack of the 25% speed buff. However, the guardian still gets access to swiftness.

Morfedel.4165:

Crise.9401:

Honestly, when it comes to movement speed… what they should have done baseline is similar to what they are doing for fall damage.

In other words, every class should have 25% movement speed added to one of its traits… or a passive effects on a skill like signet, for complete parity between professions I would choose the trait approach and rework the skills that currently grant this for the professions that have them (and do something about Traveler runes, or maybe not).

This way swiftness and superspeed can be the differentiating factors for each profession but everyone has access to same base mobility increase just like everyone has access to a fall damage decrease right now, afaik.

So lets see:

Classes that have the 25% base available:
Necromancer (signet)
Thief (signet)
Engineer (trait)
Warrior(trait)
Ranger (signet)
Elementalist (Signet)

Classes that don’t have it:
Guardian
Mesmer (getting it with elite spec)

Did I miss something on the guardian? I dont know that class well. But if I didn’t it means the guardian will share with the revenant a lack of the 25% speed buff. However, the guardian still gets access to swiftness.

You didn’t miss anything. The Guardian does not have a flat +25% movement speed trait or utility skill. However, I would argue that it’s not unreasonable for heavy armor classes to be missing out on such things. Also, Guardian swiftness uptime of >100% is entirely possible if you trait correctly and use the right weapons, and Revenant super speed uptime will still result in over faster than the flat +25% (as long as you’re out of combat and double-legend swap once you run out of Shiro energy.

The Mesmer +25% is locked behind the elite spec, so unless you take that traitline (and the elite spec changes), you don’t get the MS.

Make mounts and we don’t have to discuss this kittenty problem all the time.

MiniEquine.6014:

Morfedel.4165:

Crise.9401:

Honestly, when it comes to movement speed… what they should have done baseline is similar to what they are doing for fall damage.

In other words, every class should have 25% movement speed added to one of its traits… or a passive effects on a skill like signet, for complete parity between professions I would choose the trait approach and rework the skills that currently grant this for the professions that have them (and do something about Traveler runes, or maybe not).

This way swiftness and superspeed can be the differentiating factors for each profession but everyone has access to same base mobility increase just like everyone has access to a fall damage decrease right now, afaik.

So lets see:

Classes that have the 25% base available:
Necromancer (signet)
Thief (signet)
Engineer (trait)
Warrior(trait)
Ranger (signet)
Elementalist (Signet)

Classes that don’t have it:
Guardian
Mesmer (getting it with elite spec)

Did I miss something on the guardian? I dont know that class well. But if I didn’t it means the guardian will share with the revenant a lack of the 25% speed buff. However, the guardian still gets access to swiftness.

You didn’t miss anything. The Guardian does not have a flat +25% movement speed trait or utility skill. However, I would argue that it’s not unreasonable for heavy armor classes to be missing out on such things. Also, Guardian swiftness uptime of >100% is entirely possible if you trait correctly and use the right weapons, and Revenant super speed uptime will still result in over faster than the flat +25% (as long as you’re out of combat and double-legend swap once you run out of Shiro energy.

The Mesmer +25% is locked behind the elite spec, so unless you take that traitline (and the elite spec changes), you don’t get the MS.

That’s not really any different than any other trait for the other classes granting +25% though.