Guild Wars 2

Revenant gets access to nearly 50% uptime on super speed with shiro. Sure, in combat this is a bit lower but their in combat mobility is actually pretty great.

Super speed is basically tripple swiftness, so a 50% uptime of that actually makes it one of the FASTEST classes.

Also Ventari has a trait that gives swiftness on the staff orbs.

mexay.3902:

Revenant gets access to nearly 50% uptime on super speed with shiro. Sure, in combat this is a bit lower but their in combat mobility is actually pretty great.

Super speed is basically tripple swiftness, so a 50% uptime of that actually makes it one of the FASTEST classes.

Also Ventari has a trait that gives swiftness on the staff orbs.

At what cost? No weapon skills, no other utilities and so on. Besides that why i would use 20 energy for 2sec superspeed when i can use phase traversal instead?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spring_Roll

Ever since we got those, I haven’t had any swiftness issues on any class. It even made map completion on a Mesmer somewhat bearable. The 20% boon duration will even help our DPS a little through all the might we stack on ourselves.

As for instanced content we have Warriors, Rangers, Thieves and Elementalists who provide high amounts of group swiftness. One of them is permanent, the others are above 50% uptime.

People make too big of a deal out of the entire thing.

Silhouette.5631:

Guardian here. Glad to see another class with mobility as bad as us. Welcome brothers. Also please don’t ever say we have more swiftness options than you. Seriously. Thank you.

Main Guardian for 3 years. We have staff with aoe swiftness, shout with aoe swiftness and another shout with swiftness too. I usually stack 100% swiftness uptime in wvw or in jumping puzzles.

Revenant has 0 skills that give swiftness, how can you say it’s the same as Guardian? Come on…
Only ONE of the 3 options that Guardian has would be great on Revenant.

Guardian has great mobility and is a monster in WvW. One of the best classes in dps, survivability, pve, pvp, wvw. Not comparable to Revenant.

The slowest class is Mesmer, and has 2 swiftness skills and 98% swiftness uptime.

Revenant, needs to rely on combo field+blast. It’s so simple. Make that field give swiftness instead of lightning field.

skowcia.8257:

At what cost? No weapon skills, no other utilities and so on. Besides that why i would use 20 energy for 2sec superspeed when i can use phase traversal instead?

Because phase traversal requires a target and will put you in combat? Since when do you need other skills out of combat anyway? Also it’s togglable so if the situation calls you can just turn it off… or you know… swap legends?

As far as I know we don’t know yet if we can Phase Traversal to targets out of range. If it’s like the Guardian’s Flashing Blade, Judge’s Intervention or a Thief’s Infiltrator’s Strike we may actually have some of the best mobility in the game.

But that’s exactly why I imagine we won’t be able to use it on targets out of range.

mexay.3902:

skowcia.8257:

At what cost? No weapon skills, no other utilities and so on. Besides that why i would use 20 energy for 2sec superspeed when i can use phase traversal instead?

Because phase traversal requires a target and will put you in combat? Since when do you need other skills out of combat anyway? Also it’s togglable so if the situation calls you can just turn it off… or you know… swap legends?

It wont put in combat if your target is out of range. Super speed is capped at 33% out of combat as well. Revenant should have a trait for +25% move speed like…everyone else? Except poor guards. Basically we will have to use traveler runes..and that on it own is a disadvantage already. Even mesmer getting +25% with immo/cripple/chill 25% reduction on a MINOR trait.

Bovan.9481:

As far as I know we don’t know yet if we can Phase Traversal to targets out of range. If it’s like the Guardian’s Flashing Blade, Judge’s Intervention or a Thief’s Infiltrator’s Strike we may actually have some of the best mobility in the game.

But that’s exactly why I imagine we won’t be able to use it on targets out of range.

Revenant was supposed to be a king of mobility in combat, i dont see a reason why it shouldnt work if target is out of range. I mean we have to pick a whole set of utilities just to get that one mobility skill.

skowcia.8257:

Revenant was supposed to be a king of mobility in combat, i dont see a reason why it shouldnt work if target is out of range. I mean we have to pick a whole set of utilities just to get that one mobility skill.

I hope so, but the amount of mobility this would give us (even out of combat) is pretty nuts. The amount of distance I can cover on a Guardian with the sword blink, greatsword leap and Judge’s Intervention is massive. Just thinking about how much better Revenant would be is a little scary.

If the class is designed around low mobility out of combat it just makes me think about it being unusable if the target is out of range even more.

But who knows, got so much stuff to test next beta.

Kidel.2057:

GoldenTruth.2853:

Recharge 5 energy per second, so we are both wrong it is 9 seconds.

At least I think that’s how it works if my memory is correct.

Recharge is 0 ooc

Recharge is 5 OOC see Roys Post

Loex.5104:

Kidel.2057:

GoldenTruth.2853:

Recharge 5 energy per second, so we are both wrong it is 9 seconds.

At least I think that’s how it works if my memory is correct.

Recharge is 0 ooc

Recharge is 5 OOC see Roys Post

Doesn’t it still bring the upkeep to -10? Or it’s 5-10=-5?
If that’s -5 then yes, it’s 9 seconds and it probably solves the issue. /thread.
90% superspeed uptime is not bad.

EDIT: it’s 47%, so still an issue.
EDIT2: nope, over 90% since legendswap has no cd ooc.

Kidel.2057:

Loex.5104:

Kidel.2057:

GoldenTruth.2853:

Recharge 5 energy per second, so we are both wrong it is 9 seconds.

At least I think that’s how it works if my memory is correct.

Recharge is 0 ooc

Recharge is 5 OOC see Roys Post

Doesn’t it still bring the upkeep to -10? Or it’s 5-10=-5?
If that’s -5 then yes, it’s 9 seconds and it probably solves the issue. /thread.
90% superspeed uptime is not bad.

Regeneration is +5. When you activate skill it drains 10 energy. The + energy is calculated in upkeep cost, so yes you lose “olny” 5/s

Well to be honest if we’re doing comparisons you can easily stack infinite swiftness with Inspiring Reinforcement (Air field) then smashing 2 blast finishers on it with Hammer with Drop the Hammer and Phase Smash. If you sit there and do this over and over, you can technically build infinite swiftness.

The problem is neither of these is very functional or mobile. You have to complete stop due to long animation timers (even Phase Smashing in place takes super long for some reason).

There’s also no passive +25% runspeed at all, either, which is pretty miserable. Maybe Glint will have it (like Chronomancer has it for Mesmer) but that feels bit off too since Shiro is supposed to be about mobility.

As I said I’m excluding the combo on purpose, also because you have to stop to use it, so basically defeating the whole point of having swiftness.

I’m just waiting for Roy or another dev to confirm or not that we can use Impossible Odds out of combat for 9 seconds.

Silhouette.5631:

Guardian here. Glad to see another class with mobility as bad as us. Welcome brothers. Also please don’t ever say we have more swiftness options than you. Seriously. Thank you.

Seriously. Looked at the title and thought ‘did the OP even LOOK at the other classes before trying to hyperbole their way into the Devs’ ignore file?’

Want to make real change? Start with real claims.

You mean this OP?

• Mesmer: swiftness weaponskill + passive signet, almost perma swiftness for the slowest class in the game. Also Chronomancer getting 25% speed trait, but normal Mesmer is already enough and probably the best class for jumping puzzles and exploration.
• Engineer: perma swiftness with kit swap, plus swiftness skills. No combo needed
• Guardian: swiftness weaponskill and 2 swiftness shouts. Perma swiftness here too.
• Necromancer: 25% speed signet, swiftness utility skill and weaponskill.
• Warrior: 25% speed trait, plus swiftness weaponskill and active signet.
• Thief: everything plus blinks.
• Elementalist: as Thief if not better.
• Ranger: LOL, spam heal, elite, shout training: enjoy 2min swiftness. Not factoring the +25% speed signet. That’s so reduntant it can be removed from the game. Or give it to Revenant.

Yes, I did look at other classes, wanna se my lineup?
Leveled all of them with (almost) no tomes.

Do you want me to list all the ways that other classes have to get swiftness or superspeed (directly, no combo)?
We can then compare to Revenant.

Guard and mesmers have to give up a lot for decent swiftness uptime >.> so either bite the dust with a subpar weapon or use Traveler runes like everyone else.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Guard and mesmers have to give up a lot for decent swiftness uptime >.> so either bite the dust with a subpar weapon or use Traveler runes like everyone else.

I can get an exploration setup on Guardian equipping a staff and swapping 2 utility skills. I’m not planning to have 100% swiftness uptime in battle dude, it’s meant for exploration, OoC.
Mesmers have to give up nothing. Focus is arguably the best off hand weapon, and equipping 1 (pretty decent) sigil is not “a lot”. You get 98% swiftness uptime from only those 2 things.
Also with Revenant I’d kill to be able to give up something to get a smooth map exploration.

Traveler runes, lol. You would have to swap an entire armor set for that.

With Revenant the only direct way to get speed is maybe (waiting confirmation) Impossible Odds, and only 90%. EDIT: 47%. EDIT2: nope, over >90% since legendswap has no cd ooc.

Please read the thread however. I’ve already replied to comments like this.

Vizardlorde.8243:

mesmers

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Time_Marches_On

K.

Kidel.2057:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Guard and mesmers have to give up a lot for decent swiftness uptime >.> so either bite the dust with a subpar weapon or use Traveler runes like everyone else.

I can get an exploration setup on Guardian equipping a staff and swapping 2 utility skills. I’m not planning to have 100% swiftness uptime in battle dude, it’s meant for exploration, OoC.
Mesmers have to give up nothing. Focus is arguably the best off hand weapon, and equipping 1 (pretty decent) sigil is not “a lot”. You get 98% swiftness uptime from only those 2 things.
Also with Revenant I’d kill to be able to give up something to get a smooth map exploration.

Traveler runes, lol. You would have to swap an entire armor set for that.

With Revenant the only direct way to get speed is maybe (waiting confirmation) Impossible Odds, and only 90%.

Please read the thread however. I’ve already replied to comments like this.

you can get hammer mace on a revenant and blast your lightning field 2-3 times every 8-15 secs for 20-30 secs of swiftness then.
Mesmer focus 4 does not stack with any other source of swiftness already active so you have a 5 second window to get that swiftness if you are running the signet. and by a lot I meant that they have to use 2 or more skill slots to achieve something that other classes get with 1 trait or skill (25% signets, traits, etc)

You’re probably the 14th one that says that in this thread. You should probably read more carefully the 15 times that I or other users already replied to that

Ive done every single jp in the game and only a few jumps actually “NEED” swiftness and even fewer dont allow you to stop to stack swiftness.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Ive done every single jp in the game and only a few jumps actually “NEED” swiftness and even fewer dont allow you to stop to stack swiftness.

The thread is about exploration in general and WvW. Jumping puzzles are just a part of it.
Please, read more carefully before adding criticism that has already been answered.

You havent answered anything you want to be rewarded for not playing yor class right. Its like you are playing a mace shield signet guardian complaining that you are too slow. The solutions are right in front of you but you are too stubborn to accept them. ( superspeed is not good enough, blasting lightning is too hard, runes are too expensive etc)

Vizardlorde.8243:

You havent answered anything you want to be rewarded for not playing yor class right. Its like you are playing a mace shield signet guardian complaining that you are too slow. The solutions are right in front of you but you are too stubborn to accept them. ( superspeed is not good enough, blasting lightning is too hard, runes are too expensive etc)

Don’t pretend things I’ve never said please.
Superspeed is more then enough if it’s confirmed to be 9 seconds.
And I’ve NEVER said anything about runes being expensive. Never. Please do not lie or bait.

It’s not about being able to use a class or not. It’s about being on par with other classes (that even if they have lightning field don’t have to bother blasting it, because they have instant swiftness).
If superspeed is 4 seconds ooc, then Revenant has a serious mibility issue. If it’s 9, then it’s bearable.

Being forced to stop to build swiftness every minute is not really smart. You gain no advantage from it on the long run.

Foefaller.1082:

Kidel.2057:

Mace…
Jalis…
did you read my first post in this thread?

Hammer 5
Weapon swap

and unless your an Engineer or Warrior (or a Mace/Jalis Rev), 100% swiftness by yourself is a myth.

A Necro with Locust Swarm and Spectral Walk, both traited, can have 4 min of swiftness by himself.

They should just make one of those racial utilities nobody ever uses for each race a 25% movement speed buff utility. Then just change the current traits/singets etc that had that bonus to something else.

Kidel.2057:

As I said I’m excluding the combo on purpose, also because you have to stop to use it, so basically defeating the whole point of having swiftness.

I’m just waiting for Roy or another dev to confirm or not that we can use Impossible Odds out of combat for 9 seconds.

Roy has already said that out of combat you get the full energy regen in the new build, you don’t need him to come in here and confirm this for you. Instead of dropping to 0 regen at 50 energy ooc, revenants will now have a constant +5 regen at all times and your energy bar simply caps at 50 energy ooc.

However, I don’t think it solves your problem, because that gives you at best 47% uptime, not 90%. Once Impossible Odds has drained your energy, you have to wait 10 seconds before the energy bar fills back up to 50. So it’s not 9 seconds of super speed every 10 seconds, it’s 9 seconds of super speed every 19 seconds.

I got to say I completely agree with this, I feel like adding it to Invocation only makes sense tho since almost all revs will prob spec into it. How about we make is a 4 second swiftness after using a legend skill.

Edit: or we can maybe a passive to traits, if used out of combat, skills that cost energy regen use 1 less energy. Boom we now have 12.5 seconds of speed, That would make it feel a little better.

KingFarout.1092:

I got to say I completely agree with this, I feel like adding it to Invocation only makes sense tho since almost all revs will prob spec into it. How about we make is a 4 second swiftness after using a legend skill.

Edit: or we can maybe a passive to traits, if used out of combat, skills that cost energy regen use 1 less energy. Boom we now have 12.5 seconds of speed, That would make it feel a little better.

Invocation is terrible outside of pve. Devastation/Retribution/Glint is the way to go!

glehmann.9586:

Kidel.2057:

As I said I’m excluding the combo on purpose, also because you have to stop to use it, so basically defeating the whole point of having swiftness.

I’m just waiting for Roy or another dev to confirm or not that we can use Impossible Odds out of combat for 9 seconds.

Roy has already said that out of combat you get the full energy regen in the new build, you don’t need him to come in here and confirm this for you. Instead of dropping to 0 regen at 50 energy ooc, revenants will now have a constant +5 regen at all times and your energy bar simply caps at 50 energy ooc.

However, I don’t think it solves your problem, because that gives you at best 47% uptime, not 90%. Once Impossible Odds has drained your energy, you have to wait 10 seconds before the energy bar fills back up to 50. So it’s not 9 seconds of super speed every 10 seconds, it’s 9 seconds of super speed every 19 seconds.

Yes, you are right

Kidel.2057:

Main Guardian for 3 years. We have staff with aoe swiftness, shout with aoe swiftness and another shout with swiftness too. I usually stack 100% swiftness uptime in wvw or in jumping puzzles.

Main Guardian since the GW2 beta. If you think that Guardians have “perma swiftness,” you may have been maining a Guardian too exclusively, and so I would recommend playing a class that actually does have “perma swiftness” then you could learn what it truly feels like to have it. Because you don’t have “perma swiftness” when it requires you to equip two utility slots on long cooldowns and a utility “weapon” to upkeep swiftness. Plus, it’s not as if you get it as a guardian in WvW or open world PvE train via staff and two utility skills. You get it by mooching off everyone else’s swiftness boosts in a group setting.

It’s night and day in terms of speed between my guardian and engineers. One engineer has mecha legs, which is a traited perma twenty-five percent speed boost that requires no slotting of any weapon or utility skill. The other one has speedy kits which grants 20 sec swiftness on a 20 sec cooldown by simply switching to a kit. THAT, Kidel, is a perma swiftness. Guardian can’t even touch that level of effortless passive speed. There’s a reason that Guardians have the reputation for being slow, cumbersome turtles regardless of the game mode setting.

“if you equip a skill”, “if you equip a weapon”, guess what? At least you CAN have awesome swiftness skills if you do that. Revenant can’t even do that.

glehmann.9586:

However, I don’t think it solves your problem, because that gives you at best 47% uptime, not 90%. Once Impossible Odds has drained your energy, you have to wait 10 seconds before the energy bar fills back up to 50. So it’s not 9 seconds of super speed every 10 seconds, it’s 9 seconds of super speed every 19 seconds.

Can’t you just legend swap twice to refill your energy? Legend swap has no cooldown ooc.

Tim.6450:

glehmann.9586:

However, I don’t think it solves your problem, because that gives you at best 47% uptime, not 90%. Once Impossible Odds has drained your energy, you have to wait 10 seconds before the energy bar fills back up to 50. So it’s not 9 seconds of super speed every 10 seconds, it’s 9 seconds of super speed every 19 seconds.

Can’t you just legend swap twice to refill your energy? Legend swap has no cooldown ooc.

Then it’s higher then 90% ooc, regardless of upkeep.

Still waiting for someone to actually confirm here.

You know what class also doesn’t have an easy access to Swiftness? Thief. Use blasts+highway if you want Swiftness.

YuiRS.8129:

You know what class also doesn’t have an easy access to Swiftness? Thief. Use blasts+highway if you want Swiftness.

Thief has a permanent 25% movement speed signet + swiftness on dodge roll and on steal. Considering the short swiftness uptime, it still has an average of +30% movement speed factoring vigor and +30% duration from the same trait lines, but who cares?

You can swap in a signet and get free 25% during exploration. Anytime you want.

Thief is one of the 5 lucky classes (6 with Chronomancer) with the permanent 25% movement speed boost, and one of the 4 that actually just need to equip a skill for that, without changing traits

Plus many blinks/dashes with no cooldown (just initiative).
Equip a dagger or a shortbow.
Seriously, do thiefs need swiftness? Just spam bow 5. Leveling a thief I was always the first to arrive, before all my friends.

Thiefs and Elementalists have the highest mobility in the game.

Kidel.2057:

Tim.6450:

glehmann.9586:

However, I don’t think it solves your problem, because that gives you at best 47% uptime, not 90%. Once Impossible Odds has drained your energy, you have to wait 10 seconds before the energy bar fills back up to 50. So it’s not 9 seconds of super speed every 10 seconds, it’s 9 seconds of super speed every 19 seconds.

Can’t you just legend swap twice to refill your energy? Legend swap has no cooldown ooc.

Then it’s higher then 90% ooc, regardless of upkeep.

Still waiting for someone to actually confirm here.

Wait a second, do you still get at 50 energy if you swap twice?

lol, Guardian staff and shouts. If you want to have to stop moving every 15 seconds and/or sacrifice at least half of your damage and sustain, then yeah sure, you can get 100% swiftness uptime.

Black Box.9312:

lol, Guardian staff and shouts. If you want to have to stop moving every 15 seconds and/or sacrifice at least half of your damage and sustain, then yeah sure, you can get 100% swiftness uptime.

You don’t need damage while exploring/moving.
And you don’t have to stop at all.

All jumping puzzles are designed around non-swiftness speed.

Kidel.2057:

Black Box.9312:

lol, Guardian staff and shouts. If you want to have to stop moving every 15 seconds and/or sacrifice at least half of your damage and sustain, then yeah sure, you can get 100% swiftness uptime.

You don’t need damage while exploring/moving.
And you don’t have to stop at all.

You’ll need damage when you get jumped by a Warrior or Ele that has more mobility than you could ever hope to ask for on a Guardian.

And yes, since the Symbol of Swiftness change, you have to literally stop and stand in it to gain the full swiftness duration, which defeats the purpose of using it to begin with.

I’m fairly certain at least 1 of the Signets with the Glint Legend will be a Movement Signet (Looking at the Wing here). So Couple that with instant legends and Shiro’s mobility, and they won’t be too slow.

Out of Combat, you can still use Hammer and Jalis, since you can switch Legends on the go like any other utility skills. In combat, most mobility seems to lie with Shiro.

I think Revenant will be fine.

Black Box.9312:

And yes, since the Symbol of Swiftness change, you have to literally stop and stand in it to gain the full swiftness duration, which defeats the purpose of using it to begin with.

You don’t even need the full duration if you also use shouts.
If you need damage then just swap weapon. You don’t have energy lol.

TheSwede.9512:

I’m fairly certain at least 1 of the Signets with the Glint Legend will be a Movement Signet (Looking at the Wing here). So Couple that with instant legends and Shiro’s mobility, and they won’t be too slow.

Out of Combat, you can still use Hammer and Jalis, since you can switch Legends on the go like any other utility skills. In combat, most mobility seems to lie with Shiro.

I think Revenant will be fine.

I do agree. I’m just waiting for a clarification on Impossible Odds and ooc upkeep+legendswap now.

Kidel.2057:

Black Box.9312:

And yes, since the Symbol of Swiftness change, you have to literally stop and stand in it to gain the full swiftness duration, which defeats the purpose of using it to begin with.

You don’t even need the full duration if you also use shouts.
If you need damage then just swap weapon. You don’t have energy lol.

The concept clearly is lost on you…

Black Box.9312:

The concept clearly is lost on you…

Since you’re not convinced let me do some math.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Retreat!%22
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Save_Yourselves!%22
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbol_of_Swiftness

From Retreat + Save Yourselves you get a throughput of 40 seconds of swiftness every 60 seconds (20s every 40s + 10s every 60s, do the math yourself if you’re able).
Only 1 tic of Symbol of Swiftness gives you 4s of Swiftness every 15 seconds, so a throughput of 16 seconds of swiftness every 60 seconds. Again, only 1 tic. If you get 2 (very easy if you aim ahead) it becomes 32 seconds every 60.

So your total throughput is 56 seconds of swiftness every 60 seconds if you get only 1 tic from your symbol, 72 seconds every 60 if you get 2.

In % you go from 93% to 120%, with an average of 105.5% swiftness uptime with no need to stop in the symbol (thug life).
All those swiftness skills do stack in duration, unlike Mesmer’s focus#4.

Not involving boon duration buffs, of course.

I’ve been a Guardian since the first beta of this game, don’t pretend to teach me my class. I’ve never had any problem to achieve perma swiftness if I needed to reach a far zerk group or any point in the map.

Plus if anyone jumps on you, you already have a lot of swiftness, probably aegis, all your virtues and maybe full Save Yourselves boons (actually 17% of the time). Just swap to Hammer/GS and wreack. You can even use staff to get 1k heal and 12 stacks of might, gg.
I don’t see any sacrifice here. Actually those shouts are pretty good, and staff too.

EDIT: did I mention you can also swap GS and do the leap once in a while?
Guardian has great mobility atm.

Black Box.9312:

The concept clearly is lost on you…

I hate people who are unable to provide any argument and just say things like this.
Personally I have no problem keeping swiftness up all the time without stopping once with my Guardian. I also use staff and shouts in my regular build, so I don’t really have any problem if roamers attack me (if they can reach me).
If you can’t stack swiftness properly then l2p before pretending to be smarter then others.

I feel like the best and simplest fix would be just reduce energy drain outside of combat

Make it a passive called like

“Dragons Mediation” – When out of combat energy costs for all draining skills are reduced by 1 drain per second. Dragon skills cost 30% less energy upfront also when out of combat.

Boom, you have an elite passive that effects all rev skills, and works with Glints skill set being able to cast your dragon skills out of combat to boost your ally’s before you enter a fight.

If IO can be used for 9s every 10 (with legendswap having no cd ooc) then it’s already decent.

just waiting for Roy to confirm this.

Silhouette.5631:

Guardian here. Glad to see another class with mobility as bad as us. Welcome brothers. Also please don’t ever say we have more swiftness options than you. Seriously. Thank you.

Sorry man, I main a Guardian too and I constantly have swiftness uptimes of >2 minutes in open-world PvE running around by myself. GS/Staff with “Retreat!” and the shout CD reduction alone will give you more than enough swiftness plus the long-range GS leap. Everything beyond that is just icing on the cake.

If you don’t want to run any of those, then that’s your choice, but it doesn’t mean that Guardians don’t have access to 100%+ swiftness uptime.

Quick edit: I don’t stand still in the Staff field, I just run through it and pick up the 1 tick (unless I’m climbing something, viewing a Vista, or farming a node; in which case I do manage to stand in it for the full time).

What makes me laugh is that Guardian and Warriors used to be the best classes in the old keyfarming (whan you had access to all story quests since lv1) because of heavy armor and good mobility with base skills.
Hearing that for some people Guardian lacks mobility and doesn’t have 100% swiftness uptime makes me wonder if we are playing the same game at all.