Revenant needs a better battlefield positioning tool, so make Phase Smash an actual leap.
Thanks!
I think you’d wind up almost never using it… unlike other ranged weapons with similar abilities (I’m thinking of Thief SB and Engi rifle) there’s nothing on Hammer that benefits being close, and also nothing that then lets you get back out of close range. Not to mention that in the early betas, Phase Smash had no evade frames – you would use it on a target in melee with something else and get hit by all the AoE there on your way in and out. It was terrible.
Rev’s got good positioning tools between Axe 4, Staff 5 in a pinch, Mallyx leap and Shiro, besides.
Why would you ever want to get into melee range with a hammer when Coalescence of Ruin needs you to be at long range. I mean, I guess if it was a true leap you could use it backwards to get even further away or something, but then you’d be wasting the blast and the damage.
Revenant has other repositioning tools (like basically everything in Shiro stance to some extent) and even if you do think it needs more, Phase Smash isn’t a good place for it. You’d lose way more utility than you’d gain by doing so.
Well, let’s look at this…
You are in wvw and need to make some breathing room from players and red circles eating you up…
Maybe you are pewpewing with your hammer and need to get to a better spot to pewpew.
You won’t need evade frames, it moves you and becomes an evade.
There are multiple effects tied to most skills, it’s no biggie, you aren’t really wasting anything if you can position yourself better and not die.
Phase Traversal takes you to the target, not away. Weapon skills take you to the target, not away.
Unyielding Anguish is too short of a range and very energy expensive.
Go wvw and think about it…
(edited by Swagger.1459)
But that’s exactly what Riposting Shadows is for.
Stunbreak, evade, usable without a target and always goes backwards from your facing. Plus it gives you endurance back so you can dodge roll right after using it.
I understand. RS is short range and a predetermined destination on use.
My suggestion doesn’t tie you to a particular legend.
Not really kitteneful suggestion for a ranged weapon, you dont want to be in the face of foes.
Axe 4 kinda covers the mobility aspect, but if you are dead set on a leap. Look at Unyielding Anguish on Mallyx. It could really use a range increase to be more useful.
hammer is notoriously strong in wvw. it should have at least some risk when using it instead of giving revs another tool to escape with.
Not really kitteneful suggestion for a ranged weapon, you dont want to be in the face of foes.
Axe 4 kinda covers the mobility aspect, but if you are dead set on a leap. Look at Unyielding Anguish on Mallyx. It could really use a range increase to be more useful.
Works pretty good on Druid staff…
Axe 4 is just a fancy melee skill. UA could use a range increase.
My proposal allows for a good positional skill that doesn’t tie you to a particular legend.
hammer is notoriously strong in wvw. it should have at least some risk when using it instead of giving revs another tool to escape with.
The risk is when you don’t have a zerg protecting you.
hammer is notoriously strong in wvw. it should have at least some risk when using it instead of giving revs another tool to escape with.
The risk is when you don’t have a zerg protecting you.
Exactly, it’s just a 5 target pew pew weapon that’s good for hiding in the zerg and mindlessly spamming pve mobs.
In smaller pvp skirmish settings it’s basically junk, hence my suggestion to give it some movement utility on the battlefield.
Some of you really have to think how things function in competitive encounters, not just mindless zerg spam battles.
As far i remember its your.. second thread about making phase smash a movement skill. Stop man. It wont happen
The risk is when you don’t have a zerg protecting you.
…and when you do it becomes that much more powerful. shiro is necessary for mobility because with both shiro and this ham3 change/another legend, the weapon would be way too strong.
Some of you really have to think how things function in competitive encounters, not just mindless zerg spam battles.
some of you need to consider balance as a whole. a likely scenario is that you dont want to take shiro so you can use glint/malyx to defend against revs hard counter. hard counters should exist for obvious reasons.
The risk is when you don’t have a zerg protecting you.
…and when you do it becomes that much more powerful. shiro is necessary for mobility because with both shiro and this ham3 change/another legend, the weapon would be way too strong.
Some of you really have to think how things function in competitive encounters, not just mindless zerg spam battles.
some of you need to consider balance as a whole. a likely scenario is that you dont want to take shiro so you can use glint/malyx to defend against revs hard counter. hard counters should exist for obvious reasons.
lolwat
Literally the same exact thing happened with Necro Wells and Staff Ele.
In small skirmishes, they were next to useless, but suddenly meta in zergs.
We should probably complain more about Static Field, which only has one counter: Stability. Can’t dodge through it, can’t really see it coming, can’t stop it. You better have easy Stab or you’re trapped.
Now, you say that with Shiro and a Hammer 3 change, the weapon would be too strong?
I don’t understand at all.
Shiro is good for engaging, which is literally the opposite of what you want to do with Hammer. The best Shiro can do is Riposting Shadows which is energy expensive and is your only real defense while in Shiro. Admittedly, it’s helpful for repositioning, but it’s literally the ONLY skill we have for that and further forces us into Shiro.
Now, assume Hammer now also has a mobility skill that helps it create distance.
What would change in big zergs? Probably not much at all.
What would happen in small skirmishes? Suddenly Hammer isn’t total garbage.
Also, hard counters should NOT exist in this game. Look at Diamond Skin Ele pre-change. It wasn’t fun for anyone wanting to play Condi builds and because this game doesn’t allow you to swap characters mid-fight, there’s literally nothing you can do except not fight them at all.
THAT is poor design.
Soft counters = good
Hard counters = BAD
Please consider balance as a whole and not just WvW.
i did just say that about hard counters didnt i. gg me.
i think in wvw it would add a ton of survivabilty to the hamrev. their one crutch is mobility and if you take that away, it only further promotes pirate shipping. i also think it would be a huge boost to small team but in a bad way. on top of one of the hardest hitting ranged weapons and the best projectile defense skill in the game, they get a 1200 range teleport, making locking them down incredibly hard if youre not a thief or rev.
i did just say that about hard counters didnt i. gg me.
i think in wvw it would add a ton of survivabilty to the hamrev. their one crutch is mobility and if you take that away, it only further promotes pirate shipping. i also think it would be a huge boost to small team but in a bad way. on top of one of the hardest hitting ranged weapons and the best projectile defense skill in the game, they get a 1200 range teleport, making locking them down incredibly hard if youre not a thief or rev.
Hammer DPS is horrendous. All it has going for it is the burst damage (which honestly, I rarely hit over 8k-9k on a full Zojja Invo/Dev/Herald build at max range) and the small projectile defense skill, which is FAR from being the best. Every other aspect is completely outclassed.
Ranger LB has longer range, better DPS, more utility and reasonable burst.
DH LB has about as much damage, more defense, and much better CC.
Ele Staff has crazy high DPS, a ton more utility, and more mobility.
etc.
The fact is that Rev Hammer is a poor ranged weapon by itself and all it’s really used for is to spam CoR and zergs happen to be the perfect place to do that. I highly doubt that a mobility skill will suddenly “break” the Hammer more in WvW. It if gets one, it shouldn’t be 1200 range, but it should be reasonable enough to create some distance, because as is, Hammer is completely useless when the gap is closed.
Now, I’m all for giving CoR more counter-play (like making CoR a projectile) in exchange for making Hammer actually usable in other areas of the game (it already received several nerfs that make it borderline useless everywhere).
Also, I’d say Elementalist holds the absolute best projectile defense in the game with:
- Swirling Wings (6 full seconds that covers a wide area on a 30s cooldown)
- Magnetic Wave (3 seconds of reflection that also cures 3 conditions, is a blast finisher, and can be traited to have a ~16s cooldown)
- Technically Obsidian Flesh (4 seconds of invulnerability with a 33s cooldown when traited; literally can’t do anything to this)
- AoE Magnetic Aura (So now 5 people get to be immune to projectiles!)
hammer dps is not horrendous. go test it in pvp versus the others you just mentioned. no ranged high damage weapon has mobility with it. that seems like a pretty good balance decision anet has made. the dh longbow doesnt have any defense, the class does but thats a discussion about the class as a whole. ele staff dps is not crazy high if you actually move around their pulsing aoe and dodge/escape their bad cc. id say ham4 is the best single skill to defend against projectiles. of course s/f ele has better with their 3-4 skills.
no ranged high damage weapon has mobility with it.
Druid staff says hi. Surprise right?
Also dh lb can trait for passive knocback every 10sec which also gives them stab and unlike CoR, true shot;
-doesnt lose damage at closer range
-its reliable bc it doesnt bug on terrain
-can hit targets under/above yourself unlike CoR
-hits a bit harder in general.
-Lb auto also hits for about 10% more than hammer auto as well.
Hammer is one of the worst weapons ingame. I will take druid staff or ranger/dh lb anyday anytime over this garbage. Honestly i wonder why they didnt deleted this trash weapon wep yet.
They gave us a weapon which scales it damage with range, but they forgot to give us kiting tools with it, once someone close the gap (not hard to do even for a reaper) you will be playing with only one weapon set as hammer becomes completely useless.
But well.. Jalis is garbage, his weapon hammer is garbage.. seems to fit. I am actually waiting for revenant to get a ranged weapon, cause in my eyes we dont have any.
hammer dps is not horrendous. go test it in pvp versus the others you just mentioned. no ranged high damage weapon has mobility with it. that seems like a pretty good balance decision anet has made. the dh longbow doesnt have any defense, the class does but thats a discussion about the class as a whole. ele staff dps is not crazy high if you actually move around their pulsing aoe and dodge/escape their bad cc. id say ham4 is the best single skill to defend against projectiles. of course s/f ele has better with their 3-4 skills.
I think you should check again what DPS is and how it’s considered.
Just FYI, even if you somehow landed a 10k CoR every time in PvP, its DPS would still be bad compared to a lot of other weapons.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
Druid staff says hi. Surprise right?
lolk
the auto is ok but it has no burst
Just FYI, even if you somehow landed a 10k CoR every time in PvP, its DPS would still be bad compared to a lot of other weapons.
10k every 4 sec + what a 2.5-3k auto bad
lolk
dunno what to tell ya folks
putting mobility on a ranged power burst weapon is bad design
good luck figuring out why
Druid staff says hi. Surprise right?
lolk
the auto is ok but it has no burst
Druid Staff has more DPS than the other Ranger weapons…
Just FYI, even if you somehow landed a 10k CoR every time in PvP, its DPS would still be bad compared to a lot of other weapons.
10k every 4 sec + what a 2.5-3k auto bad
lolkdunno what to tell ya folks
putting mobility on a ranged power burst weapon is bad design
good luck figuring out why
10k every 4 seconds is 2500 DPS which is extremely generous.
Lets add in auto-attacks too and assume those ALWAYS crit for 4k each.
One Hammer Bolt takes 1.25 seconds to complete while CoR has a 3/4 cast time.
So in 10 seconds we can do about 6 auto-attacks and 2 CoR.
That gives us, with our EXTREMELY generous damage estimate: 4400 DPS
Out-classed in DPS by:
- Thief Dagger Autos + Occasional Leaping Dodge (~6100 DPS)
- Pure Braindead Thief Dagger Autos with max damage (~6500 DPS)
- Thief Dagger Autos + Clock and Dagger + Leaping Dodge (~7000 DPS)
- Thief Staff Autos + Leaping Dodge (~7000 DPS)
- Thief Staff Vault Spam (~7200 DPS with 12k+ burst)
I have mostly Thief numbers (admittedly they are from Zerker builds, but Marauders aren’t that much lower), but old Rev Sword numbers with a solid rotation was also about 7k DPS, so assuming again, that you have a good rotation and Precision Strike decides to hit the correct target, you again have ~7k DPS. Even just Rev Sword autos with Precision Strike will do quite a lot of DPS; more than anything Hammer Rev can possibly do.
Staff Ele is obviously much higher on a stationary target and less on a mobile one, although if we’re going to be fair here, an opponent that is moving a lot and moving perpendicular to you will NOT get hit by a max range CoR (and they will close the gap easily).
I don’t have DH LB DPS right now, but the burst is quite similar, but they have more utility and a LOT more control (and still not used in high-end PvP much if at all; much like Hammer Rev!).
Realistically, you’re going to do much less in PVE with full Zojja’s while in WvW with a Hammer Rev.
This is even lower in PvP, where you don’t have such high stats.
Fact is that Hammer has very poor DPS and good burst and not much else.
You keep acting like it’s damage is incomparable or that #4 is the best skill ever, but in reality, it’s only good in zergs and #4 is just stalling for a few seconds against other projectile users and can be useless if shot at from a different direction other than right in front of you.
Putting mobility on Hammer will just make it usable in other areas of the game as it simply doesn’t compete with anything as is.
Again, it’s only used in zergs and is only a problem in those zergs.
That’s not an excuse to keep the weapon in its crippled state in TWO entire modes.
(edited by Malchior.5732)
Druid staff says hi. Surprise right?
lolk
the auto is ok but it has no burst
DPS = damage per second. Its basic stuff. Are you new or just?
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