Guild Wars 2

Burtnik.5218:

Litany of wrath was trash at 3/4sec cast time and before the smite condi attached to heal skill. Now it has ability to provide 6k hp on the cast and even more if smite strike someone (which will happen 90% of the time unless random dodge). Either way point is it has damage conversion to healing. It can provide rev sustain to stay in combat rather than be forced to kite due to joke interval ED. I wouldnt mind changing it to 4k base with 30% conversion. It also will help hammer A LOT. Atm its too hard to trigger daggers with hammers.

Yeah, one of the general downsides of the revenant heals in general is that they aren’t boosted by traits, while some other professions, including guardians, can boost their heals by a LOT.

In principle, EDs longer duration makes it more forgiving of not being able to go on the offensive hard within the first few seconds. Litany with traits is certainly a stronger skill, but as I’ve said, I think Shiro is being balanced as a while, and part of that is that a weaker heal is balanced against being strong in other ways (although IO did get indirectly nerfed).

I could see the balance being shifted more towards the initial heal to compensate, but I think it’ll probably remain more of a heal that’s intended to stop you from needing an emergency heal rather than being an emergency button.

Not sure how meditation of the reaper could be translated to gw2. Theres however animation that seems to be fitting – ele water overload.

You are invulnerable and immobile while channeling. While channeling, you create a shield around you, that can be damaged. If the shield is destroyed, you stop channeling. When you stop channeling, steal life according to how long you channeled.

I think that’s all possible to do in GW2’s engine.

I used it before pre patch. Projectile has it + and -. I just dont think they can fix the issue with precision strike targeting random stuff. It helps to hit stuff at range but it also can be deflected/reflected. Kinda poor for a main burst skill. See this change i posted in spvp;

“Precision strike. Revert the change to 1 projectile per target (and 2sec chill) and buff the damage by 135% of that invidual projectile. It will remain strong in 1v1 with 60% nerf to chill uptime and ~23% nerf to damage but it wont be useless in teamfights anymore. It need projectile speed buff badly tho.”

While I like the current form – when it works – that also works for me.

Can work assuming we reduce the radius of revenant ua to 300 radius. Smokescale has 300 radius for his attacks after all with 750 range for cast time.

Didn’t know smokescale had that – all the more reason for revenant to have it as well.

Sword offers chill already, shacking wave offers immobilize. If we are supposed to keep it as pull i rather make it ranged and increase range to 900. Ohh and cause it would let me to pull enemies form wall in wvw i wouldnt complain – forced eng is cool and all but a bit inpractical.

Ranged would be my preference.

My ideal would probably be to make it teleport the enemy 600 units in your direction, then teleport you to them. So if you use it in melee, it’s much the same as it is now, but you can use it at range as a general pull. Would probably need some sort of tell when used at range, though.

Most important thing is the concept. Numbers are something that can always be changed.

Which is pretty much why I left them. ;-)

Invocation changes I’ll have to think on, but nothing’s jumping out at me. Glint/Herald/Shield I don’t have the time to look at right now – I’ll do so tomorrow.

(From a game design perspective, I think the elite specialisations are supposed to be a little bit better than the regular specialisations – that’s why we can only have one at a time. We see this with the other professions as well. The problem is a) the gap seems a little too large, and b) that we only have one per profession so far, so only being able to have one isn’t much of a balancing factor. While we’re focusing on revenant here, fixing a) for the revenant while other professions still need to have their elite specialisation to be competitive may create other problems.)

Burtnik.5218:

Jalis/Mallyx/Sword is the main thing you want to look at. As for your suggestion.. no idea how it could be done. I believe Ventari was supposed to be sustained healing rather than burst (druid)

In theory. In practice, druids can recharge celestial avatar so quickly that they win on sustain as well.

gannondorf.7628:

For me precision strike must be a body skill not a range skill too. I mean Shiro is a kittening assassin, he deliver quick strikes with sword and we have a skill that throw daggers from a sword? What?! Meh….

GW1 assassins had skills for throwing daggers too, though.

This is a case of something that we didn’t see Shiro himself do, though, but the weapons are only loosely based on the legends. Mallyx doesn’t use equivalents of mace/axe skills (I guess you could compare axe 5 to Summoning Shadows), and Jalis certainly never used his hammer as a ranged weapon (although I tend to think of channeling Jalis as actually channeling the Great Dwarf, and Jalis is just the ‘face’ of the Great Dwarf).

Burtnik.5218:

Gain damage based on the amount of facets you have active – 2% per facet (master)

Crystalline Synergy?

MrHarses.6801:

Rifle on rev… please no -_-
Rev is a fighter !
Greatsword condi with dual melee/ranged AA like underwater spear… yes please

Personally, I’d like to see a ranged condi axe mainhand, with a similar theme of tearing holes in the veil between the physical world and the Mists. It seems a bit weird that revenants can use axes in the offhand and not in the mainhand, and I think the existing offhands can work as hybrid melee-or-ranged offhands similar to the guardian’s, particularly if Grasping Shadows is made ranged.

Varezenem.2813:

Since I lack time I’ll keep this short.
I found a good solution for the salvation/ventari problem that does not involve trashing PE or EN.
Let PE cleanse 3 conditions and swap natural abundance and eluding nulification.
NA is too bad for a GM. EN is too good for a M. By throwing EN to GM you increase the opportunity cost instead keeping it in line with other GM cleanse traits.

I am thinking about something different (moving traits) in Ventari.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Power
Aka get rid of regen completely from Ventari.

You overestimate the dodge trait tho. Its something that will proc even with 0 conditions on you. Well maybe lets get rid of it completely and put heal on dodge instead like guard? Or just keep it as it is?

I don’t feel that glint or shield need nerfs.
Your version of shield would make Crystal Hibernation OP on high HPower builds while at best OK on low HPower builds.
Currently SW OH is better for builds with less than 700 HPower while Shield for 700HPower+.
Energy and opportunity cost for Glint is fine you already gave baseline Rev OoC mobility and increased Jalis sustain to a higher level than Glint.
Glint is only taken because it’s on the same level as Shiro right now while being more of a neutral base. This can be observed by observing that it’s not taken over shiro on mallyx/shiro because it lacks in combat mobility and stun breaks.
The addition of more specialized E.Specs will further reduce this issue.

On the Herald line Soothing Bastion is obviously the weaker choice. If you go with the shield toughness+Boon duration extension it will be fine IMO.

Imho if you compare Glint to other legends Glint is way easier to play as there is basically 0 energy management involved. +1 energy on both fury and swiftness facets means you have to choose between going offensive or defensive rather than do it all at once like it is possible atm. Facet of Light cast time was supposed to destroy Glint already and here we are.. not much have changed.

Atm if you activate fury+swiftness+str you end up at -5 energy, regen to -6 and nature facet to -8. With my changes that will go up to -10

You could also go for protection, light, fury and end up on -8 keeping it up for a while. With my changes you will starve for energy once you activate protection and fury (-8) leaving you little room for something else.

Fact is Glint farts too much boons atm and i dont think boons supposed to be spammed so much by anyone. Look at game pre june 23. The powercreep is real.

But well its something that i will leave to feedback whenever its too much or alright.
As for the stunbreak part.. Mallyx has 0 stunbreaks. Hes taken for resistance mostly or banish spam.

Shield.. yeah i forgot about the scaling that should be nerfed a bit. I think it should also become mobile skill. Better defense at the cost of damage/cc from sword oh. Seems a fair tradeoff to me. That could open up frontline Jalis/Glint with sword/shield+staff for wvw

On the Herald line Soothing Bastion is obviously the weaker choice. If you go with the shield toughness+Boon duration extension it will be fine IMO.

That one i dont understand tbh. To current fuctionality i have added +180 toughness but nerfed crystal hibernation proc to 45cd. It has too low cd atm when you compare it..to everything else.

Burtnik.5218:

That one i dont understand tbh. To current fuctionality i have added +180 toughness but nerfed crystal hibernation proc to 45cd. It has too low cd atm when you compare it..to everything else.

Even now it is a bad trait because it interrupts you actions while forcing you to stand in a place when you are almost dead…
You also further decrease the healing (to a total of 1.2k) while increasing the cooldown.
This trait is only really used for low level play where players lack unblockable CC/damage.

draxynnic.3719:

You are invulnerable and immobile while channeling. While channeling, you create a shield around you, that can be damaged. If the shield is destroyed, you stop channeling. When you stop channeling, steal life according to how long you channeled.

I think that’s all possible to do in GW2’s engine.

Sounds fun. I want dat. In fact i will take pretty much anything over ED. Theres one question however. How much damage you would have to deal in order to destroy shield or many stacks (Shaman in fractals) to keep it balanced in pvp?

My ideal would probably be to make it teleport the enemy 600 units in your direction, then teleport you to them. So if you use it in melee, it’s much the same as it is now, but you can use it at range as a general pull. Would probably need some sort of tell when used at range, though.

Theres one problem with that one. While it can look cool you may also run into issues with “no valid path”. And that also means i wont be able to pull anyone off wall in wvw ;o

From a game design perspective, I think the elite specialisations are supposed to be a little bit better than the regular specialisations – that’s why we can only have one at a time.

Nah. They were supposed to be equal to core, opening new playstyles/improving existing specific one rather than be mandatory. If you look at mesmer now there are builds which are better without chrono. Chrono brings ally support and aoe which mes lacked or even build for some bunkering. If you want to pick up shatter build then core traitlines seems to be better. Yeah, mes got overnerfed so its not really a good example but at least chrono is not mandatory now.

In theory. In practice, druids can recharge celestial avatar so quickly that they win on sustain as well.

Thats balance issue with druids.

Burtnik.5218:

Gain damage based on the amount of facets you have active – 2% per facet (master)

Crystalline Synergy?

Sounds good.. where are my crystals tho?

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

That one i dont understand tbh. To current fuctionality i have added +180 toughness but nerfed crystal hibernation proc to 45cd. It has too low cd atm when you compare it..to everything else.

Even now it is a bad trait because it interrupts you actions while forcing you to stand in a place when you are almost dead…
You also further decrease the healing (to a total of 1.2k) while increasing the cooldown.
This trait is only really used for low level play where players lack unblockable CC/damage.

Thats why i mentioned a change to make mobile. Maybe i went overboard with it tho.. so how about 30cd?

Also funny enough that noone noticed weakness on veneful hammers.. O.o

On soothing power it is probably too much self sustain with regen it is a 850HP/s and 1.3k~1.5kHP/s on allies (depending on the amount of traits required)…

Burtnik.5218:

From a game design perspective, I think the elite specialisations are supposed to be a little bit better than the regular specialisations – that’s why we can only have one at a time.

Nah. They were supposed to be equal to core, opening new playstyles/improving existing specific one rather than be mandatory. If you look at mesmer now there are builds which are better without chrono. Chrono brings ally support and aoe which mes lacked or even build for some bunkering. If you want to pick up shatter build then core traitlines seems to be better. Yeah, mes got overnerfed so its not really a good example but at least chrono is not mandatory now.

If so don’t call that “elite” and have a limit to use only one at a time…

To me the intended design is to be close to basics in RPG: you start with a base class and once you are an experienced adventurer you level up and are able to use a better specialization, news weapon, new power, etc.
But you have to choose only one.
This has no sense at the moment as there is only one elite spec available but would be far better when we have more.

Burtnik.5218:

Imho if you compare Glint to other legends Glint is way easier to play as there is basically 0 energy management involved. 1 energy on both fury and swiftness facets means you have to choose between going offensive or defensive rather than do it all at once like it is possible atm. Facet of Light cast time was supposed to destroy Glint already and here we are.. not much have changed.
Atm if you activate furyswiftness+str you end up at -5 energy, regen to -6 and nature facet to -8. With my changes that will go up to -10
You could also go for protection, light, fury and end up on -8 keeping it up for a while. With my changes you will starve for energy once you activate protection and fury (-8) leaving you little room for something else.

Definitely not improving energy management… Just drain energy faster so spend more time doing AA waiting for legend swap CD.
A big nerf to Glint too…

If you nerf viable stuff and boost trash you end up with the same, only swapped the problem.

MrHarses.6801:

If so don’t call that “elite” and have a limit to use only one at a time…

To me the intended design is to be close to basics in RPG: you start with a base class and once you are an experienced adventurer you level up and are able to use a better specialization, news weapon, new power, etc.

https://np.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3opycg/arenanet_unveil_the_future_of_competitive_guild/cvzfp12

They are elite by name but they arent supposed to overshadow core

MrHarses.6801:

Definitely not improving energy management… Just drain energy faster so spend more time doing AA waiting for legend swap CD.
A big nerf to Glint too…

If you nerf viable stuff and boost trash you end up with the same, only swapped the problem.

Or dont press too many upkeep too many at once. Like mentioned choice to make between def/off.

What you doing during IO or vengeful hammers btw? See thats the problem.. i can jump on Glint and dont think much about what abilities i use as Glint is too forgiving in “energy management”. Theres no energy management when you can upkeep many abilities at once and do whatever you want still without worrying too much about energy. Thats not the case with other legends. And while they got bfufed they are also specialized in one thing. You wont provide aoe fury on Jalis for example nor swiftness/regen/str. All he does is facetanking stuff

Varezenem.2813:

On soothing power it is probably too much self sustain with regen it is a 850HP/s and 1.3k~1.5kHP/s on allies (depending on the amount of traits required)…

That will be tough one hmm

Natural Abudance – Using a Ventari skill applies regeneration to you and allies. 4sec regen, 240 radius. Regen is centered around tablet. Regeneration is also improved by 15%.

Crystal Hibernation – Decreased energy cost and cd to 15, reduced healing to 300/pulse. Reduced healing scaling to 0.3. Changed from selfroot to mobile block.

How about these changes then?

Burtnik.5218:

Natural Abudance – Using a Ventari skill applies regeneration to you and allies. 4sec regen, 240 radius. Regen is centered around tablet. Regeneration is also improved by 15%.
Crystal Hibernation – Decreased energy cost and cd to 15, reduced healing to 300/pulse. Reduced healing scaling to 0.3. Changed from selfroot to mobile block.

How about these changes then?

Both of them are OK but I would advice against any further improvements to sustain.

I would evaluate this whole change to put all of Revenant on about Scrapper level.
Possible problematic traits that I can identify are nourishing roots and eluding nullification (only for bunkers). They probably won’t cause any problems but they are both major contributors to self sustain.

On Glint consider reverting the energy cost on Facet of Elements to 1 and we are done.

This version of shield is fine its strength is about the same as the current shield for High HPower builds while being slightly better for Low HPower builds (a 0.25 modifier might be safer).

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

Natural Abudance – Using a Ventari skill applies regeneration to you and allies. 4sec regen, 240 radius. Regen is centered around tablet. Regeneration is also improved by 15%.
Crystal Hibernation – Decreased energy cost and cd to 15, reduced healing to 300/pulse. Reduced healing scaling to 0.3. Changed from selfroot to mobile block.

How about these changes then?

Both of them are OK but I would advice against any further improvements to sustain.

I would evaluate this whole change to put all of Revenant on about Scrapper level.
Possible problematic traits that I can identify are nourishing roots and eluding nullification (only for bunkers). They probably won’t cause any problems but they are both major contributors to self sustain.

On Glint consider reverting the energy cost on Facet of Elements to 1 and we are done.

This version of shield is fine its strength is about the same as the current shield for High HPower builds while being slightly better for Low HPower builds (a 0.25 modifier might be safer).

I think leaving nourishing roots as they are atm will be best idea and Natural Abudance may need something new..

For the shield, maybe duration could use a nerf to 2 seconds but make it a block also for allies (180 radius). After all Glint is all about support. Its generally more about the block uptime. Cant be too high.

Consider interprofessional balance as well. The suggested change on crystal hibernation makes it a superior version of warrior shield stance.

what about this idea: Gain stability and absorb / convert into healing all magic/energy based projectiles (e.g. fireball, winds of chaos, lightning surge, solar beam, orb of light) and reflect physical based projectiles (most rifle skills, most bow skills, etc). Reduce cooldown and allow movement while channeling?

TheBravery.9615:

Consider interprofessional balance as well. The suggested change on crystal hibernation makes it a superior version of warrior shield stance.

Not quite. Rev was supposed to have lower cd’s as our skills also cost energy. Trained war shield can also reflect projectiles and shield bash provides 2 sec (almost 3 with para sigil) stun. They have different purposes a bit. Meanwhile gear shield has 13cd cus Anet.

As for your idea.. stability is something we should avoid. Glint has nothing to do in stab. Converting damage to healing is Glint heal so definitely not.. Reflect is something warrior does.

Crystal hibernation overall fits the theme with healing, block duration may be something that we need to reduce. Out of all weapons shield is the most problematic one along with staff 5

Burtnik.5218:

TheBravery.9615:

Consider interprofessional balance as well. The suggested change on crystal hibernation makes it a superior version of warrior shield stance.

Not quite. Rev was supposed to have lower cd’s as our skills also cost energy. Trained war shield can also reflect projectiles and shield bash provides 2 sec (almost 3 with para sigil) stun. They have different purposes a bit. Meanwhile gear shield has 13cd cus Anet.

Thing is, we need to trait for those and then you’re asking warriors to use a sigil that’s practically overshadowed by other choices. Also I edited my post, what do you think about the suggestion?

Burtnik.5218:

I think leaving nourishing roots as they are atm will be best idea and Natural Abudance may need something new..

For the shield, maybe duration could use a nerf to 2 seconds but make it a block also for allies (180 radius). After all Glint is all about support. Its generally more about the block uptime. Cant be too high.

Don’t worry about natural abundance. This version is far less of a sustain improvement (about a fifth) than nourishing roots, but it is more versatile. It also stacks less with external support.

If you want to do anything about Eluding nullification changing it to a CC trait would probably be better since the Master Tier lacks this. Perhaps something like blind when you apply chill 1~2sec.

TheBravery.9615:

what about this idea: Gain stability and absorb / convert into healing all magic/energy based projectiles (e.g. fireball, winds of chaos, lightning surge, solar beam, orb of light) and reflect physical based projectiles (most rifle skills, most bow skills, etc). Reduce cooldown and allow movement while channeling?

Kind of removes a lot of defense from Shield actually.
It’s a channeled Stab move which makes it far less useful for stopping CC, but then you could have a class with strong magic projectiles healing you for ridiculous amounts or being marginally annoying for classes with weak ones; reflecting wouldn’t be so bad.

That being said, Shield between classes can’t be directly compared.
Warrior and Revenant are pretty different.
The former doesn’t get potentially locked out of other skills just by using a skill and has far more defense against Conditions and CC; not to mention better escapes/out-of-combat mobility.

TheBravery.9615:

Burtnik.5218:

TheBravery.9615:

Consider interprofessional balance as well. The suggested change on crystal hibernation makes it a superior version of warrior shield stance.

Not quite. Rev was supposed to have lower cd’s as our skills also cost energy. Trained war shield can also reflect projectiles and shield bash provides 2 sec (almost 3 with para sigil) stun. They have different purposes a bit. Meanwhile gear shield has 13cd cus Anet.

Thing is, we need to trait for those and then you’re asking warriors to use a sigil that’s practically overshadowed by other choices. Also I edited my post, what do you think about the suggestion?

I edited my post as well. Rev is generally different to other classes in traits. Not so many wep traits and if the ones we have are minor. Same goes to utility skills as well (except Mallyx atm and Jalis with my changes). Our traits are mostly utility/boosters just like our weapon skills provide more utility than damage.

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

I think leaving nourishing roots as they are atm will be best idea and Natural Abudance may need something new..

For the shield, maybe duration could use a nerf to 2 seconds but make it a block also for allies (180 radius). After all Glint is all about support. Its generally more about the block uptime. Cant be too high.

Don’t worry about natural abundance. This version is far less of a sustain improvement (about a fifth) than nourishing roots, but it is more versatile. It also stacks less with external support.

If you want to do anything about Eluding nullification changing it to a CC trait would probably be better since the Master Tier lacks this. Perhaps something like blind when you apply chill 1~2sec.

We already have a trait which apply slow on blind. Chill is not something that seems to be fitting Ventari as well cause its more a offensive condition rather than defensive and already used by Mallyx/Shiro sword.

Burtnik.5218:

TheBravery.9615:

Burtnik.5218:

TheBravery.9615:

Consider interprofessional balance as well. The suggested change on crystal hibernation makes it a superior version of warrior shield stance.

Not quite. Rev was supposed to have lower cd’s as our skills also cost energy. Trained war shield can also reflect projectiles and shield bash provides 2 sec (almost 3 with para sigil) stun. They have different purposes a bit. Meanwhile gear shield has 13cd cus Anet.

Thing is, we need to trait for those and then you’re asking warriors to use a sigil that’s practically overshadowed by other choices. Also I edited my post, what do you think about the suggestion?

I edited my post as well. Rev is generally different to other classes in traits. Not so many wep traits and if they are those are minor and the same goes to utility skills as well (except Mallyx atm and Jalis with my changes). Our traits are mostly utility/boosters just like our weapon skills provide more utility than damage.

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

I think leaving nourishing roots as they are atm will be best idea and Natural Abudance may need something new..

For the shield, maybe duration could use a nerf to 2 seconds but make it a block also for allies (180 radius). After all Glint is all about support. Its generally more about the block uptime. Cant be too high.

Don’t worry about natural abundance. This version is far less of a sustain improvement (about a fifth) than nourishing roots, but it is more versatile. It also stacks less with external support.

If you want to do anything about Eluding nullification changing it to a CC trait would probably be better since the Master Tier lacks this. Perhaps something like blind when you apply chill 1~2sec.

We already have a trait which apply slow on blind. Chill is not something that seems to be fitting Ventari as well cause its more a offensive condition rather than defensive and already used by Mallyx/Shiro sword.

Not chill on blind, Blind on chill. This allows you to blind with Elemental Blast, Precision Strike and Phase Smash.
There aren’t too many conditions that fit there it’s basically blind, weakness and immobilize (cripple is out because we aren’t supposed to have it).

Ahh.. gotta l2r.. no. Time to bed.

Still feels weird tho as neither staff or Ventari has any access to chill on it own. I understand what you trying to do here but im not sure if its feels right with the junk lore. Also blind is something we have from healing skill already

Burtnik.5218:

Nah. They were supposed to be equal to core, opening new playstyles/improving existing specific one rather than be mandatory. If you look at mesmer now there are builds which are better without chrono. Chrono brings ally support and aoe which mes lacked or even build for some bunkering. If you want to pick up shatter build then core traitlines seems to be better. Yeah, mes got overnerfed so its not really a good example but at least chrono is not mandatory now.

That was the ideal. In practise, every other profession is in the position of needing their elite specialisation to be competitive, except mesmer (just plain not competitive, as you acknowledge) and possibly warrior (berserker wasn’t as strong as the other elites, and I think the buffs mostly went into warrior in general rather than berserker specifically). That’s not the ideal, but being too zealous about knocking down our elite specialisation without the same treatment applying to other professions is asking to end up in the position mesmers are in now, which is not an enviable one.

On the other hand, we’re not here to balance every profession in the game.

On the gripping hand, though, I don’t think Legendary Dragon Stance is so much better than the other stances (especially with the proposed changes to the core stances) in order to need direct nerfs. Yes, she can generate a lot of boons, and it has Infuse Light… but that’s basically all she has. Her only way of dealing with conditions is Infuse Light, her only way of dealing with CC is to Infuse Light to absorb the damage or Gaze of Darkness to break the stun (20s recharge, and you lose one of your boons in the process), your own CC is consuming Facet of Chaos on a kitten recharge and is probably weaker than Jade Winds, her only mobility is Swiftness, and apart from the boons she doesn’t have much capability to add to a burst.

To use her, you’re locked into using Herald – which is not much of a disadvantage now with Herald being so good that every competitive build uses it anyway even if they don’t use Dragon Stance (which says something in itself – other elite specialisations get their power through a mix of the traitline and bringing the utility skills), but if the traits are toned down that loss of build flexibility will be a disadvantage (and it will become more of a disadvantage in the future when there should be more than one elite specialisation available per profession).

There is the argument that she has more convenient energy management, but I’m not sure that’s the case. Yes, she can upkeep a few things without energy being a serious concern – but just running 4 pips is enough that using weapon skills as well means you’ll eventually run out. While other legends do have higher energy requirements, they also have more freedom in how they spend it – upkeep skills can be toggled on and off pretty much freely (there’s an activation cost in energy, but that’s generally only about a second of upkeep) and other skills are basically fire and forget. Glint, however, can’t turn off her facets freely – once they’re activated, they can only be turned off by running out of energy or disabling them for at least ten seconds. So she generally doesn’t run out as fast as other legends do, but when she does start running low, cutting back is more awkward.

I think it’s indicative of where the imbalance lies that what is possibly the most competitive sPvP revenant build at the moment uses Herald but not Glint. Nerfing Herald and then nerfing Glint on top of that strikes me as risking becoming exactly the sort of double whammy from not taking into account the effect of simultaneous changes that we complain about when ArenaNet does it.

Crystalline Synergy?

Sounds good.. where are my crystals tho?

It’s a Glint lore reference.

Speaking of, on consideration, I think a contributing factor to not being able to come up with something for the remaining “noname” is that it doesn’t fit Glint, lorewise or mechanically. Lorewise, she didn’t have anything that focused on the target not having a buff (closest is Crystal Bonds, which removes and prevents enchantments).

Mechanically, it relies on the target not having boons, while Glint has no means of removing boons. If you pair up with Mallyx this can work out, but this brings us back to the same thematic problem that Enhanced Bulwark has: a trait that needs to be paired with some other legend or trait in order to work properly. Granted, in PvE you’d probably often get away with it because PvE opponents often don’t have boons, but I think most PvE players would prefer that enemy boons were more common in PvE – thereby making boonstrip more useful outside of Vale Guardian – rather than balancing on the assumption that they’re not.

I gather that you’re looking to address Hardening Persistance being part of what makes Herald too good, but it might be easier to just reduce the toughness gain rather than removing it entirely.

Moving Harmonise Continuity into a minor slot is something that feels pretty ugly to me, I’d have to say. Glint isn’t exactly a strong stunbreaker, so locking her into a trait that relies in stunbreaks feels a little inappropriate, especially since it’s also a trait that does absolutely nothing when you’re on your own (yes, Glint is strongest when part of a group, but I don’t think she needs to be pushed even further in that direction). What might work here is slotting in Hardening Persistence with a suitable tap with the nerfstick. Or leave Vigorous Persistence, but require you to have a minimum upkeep cost (say, 5 or 6) in order to get the benefit, so you can’t just have the faster endurance regeneration indefinitely through keeping a single cheap facet up constantly.

This would leave nerfed Hardening Persistance in noname’s slot, but even from a PvE perspective, I don’t think the line really needs three +% damage traits. Harmonize Continuity could be merged with Swift Gale so that focusing on getting benefits from breaking stuns is only requiring a single trait.

draxynnic.3719:

Speaking of, on consideration, I think a contributing factor to not being able to come up with something for the remaining “noname” is that it doesn’t fit Glint, lorewise or mechanically. Lorewise, she didn’t have anything that focused on the target not having a buff (closest is Crystal Bonds, which removes and prevents enchantments).

Mechanically, it relies on the target not having boons, while Glint has no means of removing boons. If you pair up with Mallyx this can work out, but this brings us back to the same thematic problem that Enhanced Bulwark has: a trait that needs to be paired with some other legend or trait in order to work properly. Granted, in PvE you’d probably often get away with it because PvE opponents often don’t have boons, but I think most PvE players would prefer that enemy boons were more common in PvE – thereby making boonstrip more useful outside of Vale Guardian – rather than balancing on the assumption that they’re not.

I gather that you’re looking to address Hardening Persistance being part of what makes Herald too good, but it might be easier to just reduce the toughness gain rather than removing it entirely.

Moving Harmonise Continuity into a minor slot is something that feels pretty ugly to me, I’d have to say. Glint isn’t exactly a strong stunbreaker, so locking her into a trait that relies in stunbreaks feels a little inappropriate, especially since it’s also a trait that does absolutely nothing when you’re on your own (yes, Glint is strongest when part of a group, but I don’t think she needs to be pushed even further in that direction). What might work here is slotting in Hardening Persistence with a suitable tap with the nerfstick. Or leave Vigorous Persistence, but require you to have a minimum upkeep cost (say, 5 or 6) in order to get the benefit, so you can’t just have the faster endurance regeneration indefinitely through keeping a single cheap facet up constantly.

This would leave nerfed Hardening Persistance in noname’s slot, but even from a PvE perspective, I don’t think the line really needs three +% damage traits. Harmonize Continuity could be merged with Swift Gale so that focusing on getting benefits from breaking stuns is only requiring a single trait.

Okay, so we leave Glint as it is (except chaotic release, it has too high cd imo..)

I dont see a problem in merging Swift Gale with Harmonize Continuity as it would make them more attractive.. but that leaves us.. hmm yeah.. what could possibly fill hole in minor and noname? Nonames were also made with pve in mind btw to make up for the dmg loss by moving shared to gm tier.

In case of herald generally, theres 3 traits that makes it too good over core lines;

Hardening Persistance – which honestly should be in invocation. I understand that Glint is build all around upkeeps but upkeeps are not something exclusive to Glint either. Upkeep is a mechanic of revenant just like legend swap. Also future elite specs will also use upkeeps obviously.

Shared Empowerment – Nothing can compete with that one honestly. Aoe might to the whole party just bc herald gained a boon? Yes please.

Enhanced Bulwark – Double perma stability on dodge? It was nobrainer for me since bwe2, people caught up later in s1 and things got ugly..

Imo herald as a whole feels more like core line and that was huge mistake on Roy part. Without fixing herald and core next elite spec will have to come up with some op stuff to even compete vs herald in current state which leads to powercreep obviously.

I will merge swift gale with harmonize.. i hope someone can suggest something good for adept and minor at this point

Little updates;

1.Roots removed from the list. Lets keep it as regen around the tablet

2.Elluding Nullification – Cast lesser Purifying Essence on a dodge (1 condi cleanse). 10cd.

3.Natural Abundance – Empty for now. Thinking about;

20% regen effe
reduced damage to allies near the tablet (10%)
healing an ally causes their next attack to slow their target. 2sec slow, 20cd. Copy paste of druid except blind got replaced with slow and with longer cd. Or weakness instead of slow.

4. Purifying Essence – back to 3 condi cleanse.

Still thinking about herald traits cough.

Burtnik.5218:

Little updates;

1.Roots removed from the list. Lets keep it as regen around the tablet

2.Elluding Nullification - Cast lesser Purifying Essence on a dodge (1 condi cleanse). 10cd.

3.Natural Abundance – Empty for now. Thinking about;

20% regen effe
reduced damage to allies near the tablet (10%)

4. Purifying Essence - back to 3 condi cleanse.

Still thinking about herald traits cough.

20% effectiveness and 10% damage reduction are a good choice. Weakness is a better choice if you want to put a secondary effect. Slow might be too strong.

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

Little updates;

1.Roots removed from the list. Lets keep it as regen around the tablet

2.Elluding Nullification – Cast lesser Purifying Essence on a dodge (1 condi cleanse). 10cd.

3.Natural Abundance – Empty for now. Thinking about;

20% regen effe
reduced damage to allies near the tablet (10%)

4. Purifying Essence – back to 3 condi cleanse.

Still thinking about herald traits cough.

20% effectiveness and 10% damage reduction are a good choice. Weakness is a better choice if you want to put a secondary effect. Slow might be too strong.

20% regen steps a bit on selfless tho.. So i guess damage reduction near the tablet

Then 20% regen could be placed into herald if it wont be too much healing in adept

Burtnik.5218:

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

Little updates;

1.Roots removed from the list. Lets keep it as regen around the tablet

2.Elluding Nullification – Cast lesser Purifying Essence on a dodge (1 condi cleanse). 10cd.

3.Natural Abundance – Empty for now. Thinking about;

20% regen effe
reduced damage to allies near the tablet (10%)

4. Purifying Essence – back to 3 condi cleanse.

Still thinking about herald traits cough.

20% effectiveness and 10% damage reduction are a good choice. Weakness is a better choice if you want to put a secondary effect. Slow might be too strong.

20% regen steps a bit on selfless tho.. So i guess damage reduction near the tablet

Then 20% regen could be placed into herald if it wont be too much healing in adept

It’s about as selfish as a Salvation trait can get =p. From what I can see with this change the overall sustain in the salvation line is about the same while enhancing support and control.

I mean selfless amplification which already increase outgoing healing. 2 traits that does the same thing in a bit different way.

I also think that my changes to hammer are not that great either.. when i look at the condi rifle i made. I guess hammer needs a bit of rework in the end

So i guess -10% damage to allies near the tablet.
Eventually it could change enemy projectiles to healing bolts for allies from deflect..

Which one at this point?

And what about this adept tier for herald;

Reveal the darkness – cast gaze of darkness when you hit a stealted foe in 360 radius. 20cd

Burtnik.5218:

So i guess -10% damage to allies near the tablet.
Eventually it could change enemy projectiles to healing bolts for allies from deflect..

Which one at this point?

And what about this adept tier for herald;

Reveal the darkness – cast gaze of darkness when you hit a stealted foe in 360 radius. 20cd

Hmm better use it as a stunbreak IMO there is already enough stealth hate.
For a GM I think you can do both 10% damage reduction and projectiles->heal but make it be about 2/3 of the druid healing.

I’d be happy with moving Hardening Persistence into Invocation.

Shared Empowerment is at least supposed to only work when the revenant generates a boon, not simply when they receive one: you can’t just sit on a guardian’s symbol and pump out Might that way, for instance. If that’s not how it’s working… well, bug.

I tend to compare it to Empowering Might on the guardian. The theoretical maximum for Empowering Might is higher, but you need to spend resources to get that theoretical maximum. Simply running facets won’t do it, since they have a 3s interval (and from what I’ve observed they seem to share the same interval, even if you try to space out the activations). Easiest ways of getting the theoretical maximum are Impossible Odds or having someone stand on Inspiring Reinforcement. In most circumstances, you only tend to get about 4 might stacks out of it, which seems reasonable (120 power and condition damage is better than the ‘increase [stat] of nearby allies’ traits numerically, but it requires at least some use of resources to get, and since it’s working through Might it’s subject to being stripped, corrupted, stolen, or hitting the stack cap).

It’s good, but I think it’s the other two that really make the herald traitline too necessary (particularly given that one of the revenant weaknesses is control prevention and taking ret+herald helps cover that).

draxynnic.3719:

Easiest ways of getting the theoretical maximum are Impossible Odds or having someone stand on Inspiring Reinforcement. In most circumstances, you only tend to get about 4 might stacks out of it, which seems reasonable (120 power and condition

There is a easier way, sigil of battle. Or food

Sigil of Battle has a nine second cooldown and requires weaponswap. That’s not going to get you from boon application every 3 seconds to boon application every second, on the second (the requirement for theoretical maximum Might generation off Shared Empowerment).

Food I don’t consider because you don’t have food in sPvP. 33% on crit doesn’t seem likely to generate a boon a second to fuel Shared Empowerment, though. It might bump it up from ~4 stacks from just running a facet to six or so (plus the stacks generated by the roasted cactus itself, of course).

I meant sigil of strength (I always switch these two) this sigil and food have the same cooldown strength has a 60% chance though. If you experiment with strength you’ll see that it is easy to cap might with that and FoS.

That makes more sense – with the higher chance it might actually have a decent chance to generate a stack more or less every second, with high Precision and/or Fury running. Sigil of Strength would be able to generate about eight or nine stacks (taking into account that it won’t always trigger perfectly), FoS will generate four, and Shared Empowerment coupled with the sigil would generate about six or seven. Add the effect of boon duration increases (Envoy of Sustenance, Facet of Nature, concentration gear) and it would be fairly easy to max out the stack.

On the other hand, with Facet of Nature and Envoy of Sustenance, you’d be getting something like 14 stacks off the Sigil of Battle alone if you get the crits at a regular rate, and six or seven from Facet of Strength – you don’t need Shared Empowerment to max for yourself. It would, however, mean that you give more to allies – maybe about twenty stacks in total?

I’m still not convinced that Shared Empowerment would be enough to make Herald a must-have on its own, though. It’s the combination of the three that does it, and Shared Empowerment definitely does closely fit the theme of the herald.

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

So i guess -10% damage to allies near the tablet.
Eventually it could change enemy projectiles to healing bolts for allies from deflect..

Which one at this point?

And what about this adept tier for herald;

Reveal the darkness – cast gaze of darkness when you hit a stealted foe in 360 radius. 20cd

Hmm better use it as a stunbreak IMO there is already enough stealth hate.
For a GM I think you can do both 10% damage reduction and projectiles->heal but make it be about 2/3 of the druid healing.

Enough stealth hate? Nah, theres never enough but k. Got some more..

Consuming facet burn nearly foes
Reduce incoming damage for each boon currently on you
Outgoing boon duration is increased for each boon on you

Burtnik.5218:

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

So i guess -10% damage to allies near the tablet.
Eventually it could change enemy projectiles to healing bolts for allies from deflect..

Which one at this point?

And what about this adept tier for herald;

Reveal the darkness – cast gaze of darkness when you hit a stealted foe in 360 radius. 20cd

Hmm better use it as a stunbreak IMO there is already enough stealth hate.
For a GM I think you can do both 10% damage reduction and projectiles->heal but make it be about 2/3 of the druid healing.

Enough stealth hate? Nah, theres never enough but k. Got some more..

Consuming facet burn nearly foes
Reduce incoming damage for each boon currently on you
Outgoing boon duration is increased for each boon on you

The first and the third are interesting the third would fit more the line.

One for adept (facet) one for minor. Not sure about the numbers

Burtnik.5218:

One for adept (facet) one for minor. Not sure about the numbers

Well I think we have reached a good point in balance with possible salvation/ventari combinations. On the bunker side what’s left to judge is the efficiency of Jalis/Mallyx IMO a good balance point is it being a great far/home holder but weaker in teamfights.
This probably can be achieved by checking if a necro/mallyx has enough pressure to take one down in teamfights.
The problem is I’m probably not the best suited to judge it since I lack practice with it.

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

Jalis can die to condi while Mallyx will die to a burst/hard cc. Its also a selfish build that doesnt bring much in terms of a support.

Ventari will work best with Glint imo or Jalis.

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

Jalis can die to condi while Mallyx will die to a burst/hard cc. Its also a selfish build that doesnt bring much in terms of a support.

Ventari will work best with Glint imo or Jalis.

Are they really running double rev again?

I agree that Ventari works better with Jalis and Glint =p. What I’m saying is just to check if mallyx/jalis might be a problem due to the high damage mitigation (instead of heal).

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

It’s okay. It’s not like this game is truly competitive anyway. It’s a mess.

Malchior.5732:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

It’s okay. It’s not like this game is truly competitive anyway. It’s a mess.

Double khylo ;p

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

Jalis can die to condi while Mallyx will die to a burst/hard cc. Its also a selfish build that doesnt bring much in terms of a support.

Ventari will work best with Glint imo or Jalis.

Are they really running double rev again?

I agree that Ventari works better with Jalis and Glint =p. What I’m saying is just to check if mallyx/jalis might be a problem due to the high damage mitigation (instead of heal).

They also run with shield, yep. These guys have not adapted at all.

As for Mallyx/Jalis i already explained. However if there will be some issues what you want is get rid of condi reduction/cleanse on Jalis. But i doubt it as Mallyx is really easy to burst.

Atm looking for a name to boon trait (1% duration per boon). Facet will apply aoe 360 radius burn for 4 sec. 1 stack. What i am looking into is hammer/shield and that all imo. Feel free to theorycraft

Burtnik.5218:

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

Jalis can die to condi while Mallyx will die to a burst/hard cc. Its also a selfish build that doesnt bring much in terms of a support.

Ventari will work best with Glint imo or Jalis.

Are they really running double rev again?

I agree that Ventari works better with Jalis and Glint =p. What I’m saying is just to check if mallyx/jalis might be a problem due to the high damage mitigation (instead of heal).

They also run with shield, yep. These guys have not adapted at all.

As for Mallyx/Jalis i already explained. However if there will be some issues what you want is get rid of condi reduction/cleanse on Jalis. But i doubt it as Mallyx is really easy to burst.

Atm looking for a name to boon trait (1% duration per boon). Facet will apply aoe 360 radius burn for 4 sec. 1 stack. What i am looking into is hammer/shield and that all imo. Feel free to theorycraft

Well for the boon trait Ministrels Enhancement?

Yeah can be. K updated.

Burtnik.5218:

They also run with shield, yep. These guys have not adapted at all.

At that level, it may well be preferable to run an inferior build that they’ve put a lot of practice in than a theoretically better build that they haven’t mastered.

The proof in the pudding will be Season 2, when they get the opportunity to practice against weaker teams rather than going up against one another.

draxynnic.3719:

Burtnik.5218:

They also run with shield, yep. These guys have not adapted at all.

At that level, it may well be preferable to run an inferior build that they’ve put a lot of practice in than a theoretically better build that they haven’t mastered.

The proof in the pudding will be Season 2, when they get the opportunity to practice against weaker teams rather than going up against one another.

Which is pretty much what i said..they have not adapted to changes. I was actually surprised to see 2 revs over 2 scrappers btw. “Useless trash” ele carried revs so nicely.

Either way for season 2 im going with core rev. Nty for herald

Some tweaks;

1. Enhanced Daggers – damage reduced by 70%, removed interval
2. Warding Rift – Increased energy cost to 15
3. Surge of the Mists – reduced number of impacts to 6, reduced evade to 0.75s

To debate

1. Inspiring Reinforcement and Rite of the Dwarf – reduction to 3 targets?
2. Jalis – remove condi cleanse/condi reduction?
3. Phase Traversal – reduce range to 900?
4. Dismantle Fortifications – reduce stab to 2?
5. Crystal Hibernation – reduce block to 2sec?

Hammer;

1. CoR – removed tremor suggestion.

2. Field of the mists – insta cast, reduced duration to 4, reduced cd to 8, reduced energy cost to 5, moved to skill 3. Considering change it to ice field

2. Phase smash – changed fuctionality. Slam the ground with the hammer immobilizing foes and shadowstep backward though the mists.

Moved to skill 4, increased cd to 12, increased energy cost to 10, decreased cast time and evade frame to 3/4, chill replaced with immobilize (2sec), shadowstep 900.

You do realize you have offhand sword for mobile block…good way to kill a weapon set by moving it’s purpose to another weapon set…

And i have staff for mobile block as well. How do i kill one wep set when they still fill different purposes?

Burtnik.5218:

And i have staff for mobile block as well. How do i kill one wep set when they still fill different purposes?

Well IMO the suggestion of reducing the amount of endurance to 30 on riposting shadows combined with the removal of the endurance trait in the herald line would be better. On a 15 sec cooldown shield block can be reduced to 2 sec.
Also Forced engagement should be single target at 30 energy considering its increased reliability. I’m not sure if this version of Jalis needs any other nerfs.

Also part of the reason you feel core rev a woefully UP is because the most fundamental piece for core rev combinations is terribly UP. Jalis buffs should fix this.

As a side note I can’t do a in depth analysis right now because RL.