Guild Wars 2

Hello guys, as i can read in this forum, the revenant was thinking with his elite spec Herald. So the base traits are “no sence” for a lot, a mix of ideas, without fitting the thematic of the line.
I want to discuss here a suggestion of rework line to give them a real thematic.
The goal here is not to create OP specs or OP builds, just to fit better with all nature of lines. When you choose the Salvation line for example, you have to become a powerful healer/support. I try a lot to keep existing traits and deplacing them.

1) INVOCATION LINE

Thematic: improve your invocation abilities and legends. It’s an hybrid line that provide nice tools when switching or camping a legend.

Minor
Invoker’s rage: unchanged
New talent, Invocation reversion: when you invoke a legend, you convert conditions into boons (20 sec)
Empty vessel: invoking a legend will now break stuns, but add also “reduce 15% legend swap”

Adept
Invoking harmony: Healing done to allies is increased when you invoke a legend (20%, 10 sec). I put here the salvation trait to give a healing solution to this line, and this fits well with invocation thematic
Cleansing channel: Invoking a legend remove 3 condition to nearby allies (radius 300). The previous version of this trait is really weak and useless, this new one give to invocation a nice support role
New talent: Angry invocation: gain increase damage and condition damage when you invoke a legend (7%, 10 sec) .This provide an offensive role to invocation line, the old trait Ferocious agression has no sence and doesn’t fit this line

Master
Equilibrium: when you invoke a legend, you heal nearby allies (1200, radius 600). I split here the old version of this trait to give a distinct role more clear, this first version is an healing solution
New talent: Agressive invocation: invoking a legend triggers a burst of the mist that deals damage (600, radius 350). The damage part of the previous trait for power builds
Manical persistence: increase your critical-hit chance every few seconds you camp a legend (combat only, 1sec, 2%, max 30%). This improve build where you don’t want to swap legends, this trait dont fit well with the corruption trait line

GrandMaster
Pulsating pestilence: when you invoke a legend you copy 3 conditions to nearby ennemies (radius 350, unblockable). I increase a little the radius to improve this talent and also add unblockable effet to give more defensive tool to condi builds
Shrouding mists: when your energy is above the threshold your outgoing healing is increased. While your energy is below the threshold , incoming damage is reduced to you (damage reduction 20%/threshold 30, healing increase 25%/threshold 50). I increase here damage reduction to give a real tanky option to this line and create a nice way to manage energy for tank and healers
New talent: Invoker: When you swap to a legend, you give a bonus to nearby allies depending of the legend (10 sec, radius 600, Malyx 150 condi damage, Jalis 150 toughness, Shiro 150 power, Ventari 150 healing power, Herald 150 precision). This is a good talent as a support role, all legend are improved and gives to allies a nice buff

2) RETRIBUTION LINE

Thematic: improve your tankiness, the dwarf stance and the hammer.

Minor
Enduring recovery: unchanged
Unwavering avoidance: unchanged
Determined resolution: unchanged

Adept
Planar protection: unchanged
Close quarters: unchanged
Improved aggression: Taunted foes deal less damage to you. Reduce the energy cost of Forced engagement by 20. I add the energy cost reduction to give jalis stance more utility, maybe a taunter build, the old version is useless exept for pve

Master
Eye for an Eye: unchanged
Retaliory evasion: gain retaliation after a dodge for 4 sec. I increase the duration for retaliation to give for impact to this talent, 2 sec is nothing. Retaliation could be a good way for tank build to do small damages
Dwarven battle training: change on hit to apply weakness to your foe. You take less damage by weakened foes (10%). small change to give more tank option to this trait

GrandMaster
Versed in stone: unchanged
Empowering vengeance: when you are under retaliation, you take less 10% damage and 10% condi damage. Small damage increase compared to versed stone but more longer, the previous version of this talent has no sence to tank builds
New talent: Protector of the throne: you and nearby allies gain protection for 5 sec after swapping to hammer weapon(cd 25sec). This line laks of protection access and this could be increase hammer utility

3) SALVATION LINE

Thematic: improve your healing option, ventari stance and staff. Actually revenant is strong as group healer but he is weak himself when he heals allies.

Minor
Steadfast rejuvenation: chance when struck to heal yourself (400, 4sec, 50%). The old retribution trait, fitting more this line and give to salvation a real hype
Hardened foundation: unchanged (maybe up to 10%)
Serene rejuvenation: unchanged

Adept
Nourishing roots: unchanged
Bliding truths: unchanged
Tranquil balance: unchanged

Master
Eluding nullification: remove a condition to 5 allies in the range (240, cd reduce to 5 sec*). 10 sec for a trait like that is too much, or increase at 2 conditions if you don’t want to change the cd
Tranquil benediction: increase staff healling orbs amount by 100%. That fit well with the close range healerstaff playstyle, you spam you AA in 2 sec so you have to be rewarded in terms of thealing
Invigoration flow: heal yourself when you use a skill that has an energy cost (500, cd 5sec). Old invocation talent fitting better with salvation thematic

GrandMaster
Selfless amplification: unchanged
Natural abundance: unchanged
New talent: Energie recovery: after using Energy explusion, you gain increase energy regeneration for a short duration (3energy/sec, 5 sec). A trait increasing ventari utility and energy management

4) CORRUPTION LINE

Thematic: improve your condition management, boons dispel, and the mace.

Minor
Rampant vex: unchanged
Opportune extraction: reduce the time to 5 sec, 1 boon every 10 sec is not a thing
Yearning empowerment: unchanged (maybe increase torment damage by 100% to mobile target in pve)

Adept
Replenishing dispair: unchanged
Demonic defiance: unchanged
Venom enhancement: unchanged

Master
Bolstered anguish: increase your damage and condi damage by 3% per condi on you. _Don’t forget that we are in a condi line
Frigid precision:unchanged
Spontaneous destruction: unchanged

GrandMaster
Diabolic inferno: increase also burn duration by 33%. To allow burning to be really diaoblic
New talent: Complete darkness: when you are under embrace the darkness, you copy 1 condi on you to 5 ennemies for 3 sec(1sec cd; ignoring blind). This revert the old change and give to this elite is real utility. Malyx manage condi by copying them, let’s allow him to really do it an create an alternative playstyle
New talent: Glutton: When wielding a mace, each 5 condi application, you remove 1 boon on foe. Increase condi damage why wieldin a mace by 150. This is the boon controle of Malyx, this talent is nice for long stationnary fights

5) DEVASTATION LINE

Thematic: improve power damage, cc, Shiro stance and sword.

Minor
Mutilate defenses: unchanged
Targeted destruction: unchanged
Focused siphoning: unchanged

Adept
Ferocious strikes: unchanged
Vicious lacerations: unchanged
Ferocious aggression: deal incresead damage to targets while you have fury (7%). The old invocation trait fitting more with devastation

Master
Jade echo + dismantle fortifications: for anti-stability and cc builds. These 2 talents alone are not enough but together are nice
Incesed response: gain fury when you break out of a stun. Old invocation talent that fitting better with devastation line
Assassin’s presence: unchanged

GrandMaster
Swift termination: unchanged
Assassin’s annihilation: unchanged
Roiling mists: increase critical-hit chance under fury (100%). Old invocation talent that fitting better with this line

Synthesis: I have proposed here small changes to revenant trait lines by using a lot existing talents. We can observ that some lines are actually no utility and no sence, i try to give more thematic to these ones. Discuss guys and if some dev could use this thread to improve rev core. Thanks for reading.

Some good ideas in here. Let me comment on some of them:

Invocation
Cleansing channel – I think a group 3 condi removal on 10s cd is probably a bit much. I think it is fine to leave it for condis on self and leave the group condi cleanse to Eluding Nullification. Even in the current iteration of cleansing channel I don’t think it’s too weak. But maybe it could be made a minor instead of a major trait.

Maniacal Persistence: I like this idea. But I don’t think ANet does. They previously had some Warrior traits, for example, that increased damage or healed the user based on how much adrenaline they had, encouraging them to pool adrenaline and never spend it. They changed these traits in order to encourage players to spend adrenaline. I think if this version of Maniacal Persistence ever became meta, players would feel forced to camp a legend all the time … which is not necessarily better than the current form where players feel forced to dump energy and swap legends every 10 seconds.

Retribution
Forced Engagement – I like this change. I think the taunt skill is pretty cool but is a little weak, and the current trait does nothing for PvP or WvW.

Protector of the Throne – I don’t like this idea. Even though hammer and Jalis are sometimes linked, I personally do not feel they go together. Hammer is a very aggressive ranged weapon and doesn’t fit with the defensive nature of this trait. For example, I would not swap to hammer for defense … I would swap to, say, sword and shield, or staff.

Salvation
Energie Recovery – I’m not sure ANet wants energy regen to go above +5 pips. The UI only has a range of +5 to -5, so they would have to change to UI to allow it to go to +8 while this trait is in effect. I think they are also very hesitant to add energy recovery traits.

Corruption
Opportune Extraction – since this is only a minor master trait, I don’t think it is necessary to buff it.

Replenishing Despair – although you don’t change this trait, I think it is rather weak. I gives 126 hp/sec max, but in reality it will never proc every second so the healing will be much less. I preferred the original version with lower healing but no cooldown. That gave it synergy with Pain Absorption.

Glutton – seems really powerful in PvP. I would rather perhaps see Banish Enchantment modified to remove 3 boons instead of 2. This encourages active boon removal rather than passive.

fluidmonolith.3584

First thanks to answer, it’s nice to have other visions. To goal is to propose balance ideas and not op ones.
Concerning the hammer trait, i agree, i don’t switch to hammer when i want to have more defensive tool but i think is cool to give to the rev more weapon traits and to give to hammer more defensive tools. Don’t forget that is Jalis ironhammer^^ so i have fou d funny tu put the hammer trait in retribution line.

For the glutton trait i think you are right, an active boon dispel will be more skilly so we can imagine reducing the energy cost of banish enchantment or improve the number of boon dispelled.

I think too that Anet doesnt want to introduce trait like energy recovery but it could be really smart for some lines

What do you think about the trait switching? Do you feel that it fit more with the lines?

I like most changes you’ve proposed, but somehow I feel this buffs won’t change core revenant situation because you’ve not given a solution to all the legends problems (except Jalis, which changes i like very much it feels much tankier).

Mallyx, for example, would need some trait that enabled torment to deal full damage in pve while the target is not moving (or torment needs a remake in pve), because that’s potential damage wasted. I’ve been told that Embrace the Darkness applied torment continously some time ago, so the target had so many stacks that it didn’t matter that it doesn’t move. I’m not sure if I like that, because even if it made condi rev viable, you relied on stacking as much as possible without taking full profit of them.

In Ventari you’ve addressed self-sustain and energy management, even if i don’t like tying it to energy expulsion since healing is provide by energy fragments (no one likes those) and you must recast your tablet. But, IMO, the point that restrains well trained Ventari healers into raids is that they don’t provide any significant buff to the party that couldn’t come with an herald. This party support can’t be related to dealing more damage (like druid’s GoL) because of the relation of salvation and ventari with peace. I have been thinking about a “CC dealt” buff (cc as a way to pacify), an stackable blind that can be applied to enemies with breakbars (Stacks would be consumed by ally that would have receive damage, together with protection you’re applying would mean less damage to heal) or even a peace period where neither enemies nor allies are dealt any damage (I like this idea so much but I dont’ know how to balance it).

Of course, any condi damage dealt or healing applied buff is well received. Like you, I think there are legends and weapons quite tied. In another thread I proposed that we could have some trait that enabled weapon skill changes when a certain combination is taking place. That way, condi mallyx could get range the long-desired range they need, healer ventari would’t rely so much on utilities to heal or tank jalis could use hammer in close combat. More variety of skills and more related to legends we are invoking.

epouvante.7392:

fluidmonolith.3584

First thanks to answer, it’s nice to have other visions. To goal is to propose balance ideas and not op ones.
Concerning the hammer trait, i agree, i don’t switch to hammer when i want to have more defensive tool but i think is cool to give to the rev more weapon traits and to give to hammer more defensive tools. Don’t forget that is Jalis ironhammer^^ so i have fou d funny tu put the hammer trait in retribution line.

For the glutton trait i think you are right, an active boon dispel will be more skilly so we can imagine reducing the energy cost of banish enchantment or improve the number of boon dispelled.

I think too that Anet doesnt want to introduce trait like energy recovery but it could be really smart for some lines

What do you think about the trait switching? Do you feel that it fit more with the lines?

I like some of the trait switching, and I’m not so sure about some others:

-Salvation: I like the new traits here which focus on self-healing. The only thing you really get out of the current salvation line is group support, and it leaves the user really vulnerable. This also makes the current Salvation line really single-focused such that it’s only useful in a group healing build and useless in all other builds. I think your changes make it more useful in a variety of builds.

-Corruption: Not too many changes here, but I think the removal of Maniacal Persistence helps. I know there are a few ‘on crit’ traits in that tree currently so that they’re trying to give it a crit focus, but Maniacal Persistence seems misplaced here since Invocation and Devastation do a much better job on focusing on crits.

-Devastation: Not so sure about the trait swaps here. With so many traits focusing on crits and fury, it’s pretty much a direct damage dps tree with no use in any other build. For example, in the Adept tier, the traits all pretty much read ‘increase damage’. It then just becomes a calculation to see which one increases damage the most for your build, and you take that one. This is a pretty boring choice. I think we could almost say the same for the Grandmaster tier comparing Swift Termination with Roiling Mists. Both just read ‘do more damage’ so then you just have to calculate which one does more damage for your build and take that one.

-Retribution: Not much trait swapping here to comment on.

-Invocation: I think this is a very interesting change. You’ve really made Invocation useful in many builds. In the Adept tree, for example, you can choose between group healing, damage, or self sustain. I’m still not sure about the new Maniacal Persistence. I see now that it has anti-synergy with another Invocation trait, Invoker’s Rage. Some of the traits may be a bit OP, as previously mentioned, which could make Invocation mandatory, but that’s could be remedied just by changing numbers.