Guild Wars 2

Now my friends can’t complain about Revenants at all. Nerfed sustain, nerfed emergency button, trashed damage, non-working skills (have fun with Sword 2), tons of bugs, useless legends, and multiple traits that make 0 sense (Enhanced Bulwark untouched, but Unwavering Avoidance nerfed!?).

Rest assured that you wont have to worry when fighting Condi Necros at all, because you’re virtually guaranteed to die if you stay to fight regardless of build. Oh, and if you thought you could run away or use your Mallyx build somewhere away from the Necro, don’t fret, because that Thief is going to trail you and destroy you.

Sure, we’re not 100% trash, but we’re not too far off.
Anyway, thanks, Anet, because at the very least we wont have people complaining that Revenant has any strong points at all :^)

not 100% trash? Humm so we still usefull in something?

gannondorf.7628:

not 100% trash? Humm so we still usefull in something?

Yea, you can AFK and apply perma-Fury! (and Facet of Nature is still very useful)

Hammer 2 too stronk in wvw. Please nerf, its still gamebreaking.

On a serious note i wonder if there is any point at all picking up shield now? Selfroot for 3sec block 2,5k healing on 25cd compared to crap sword offhand with 2 sec mobile block on 12cd? +offhand sword doesnt clip with mistward blindfold nor mistward shoulder

Malchior.5732:

gannondorf.7628:

not 100% trash? Humm so we still usefull in something?

Yea, you can AFK and apply perma-Fury! (and Facet of Nature is still very useful)

And power! Great support job, like a pet.

Burtnik.5218:

On a serious note i wonder if there is any point at all picking up shield now? Selfroot for 3sec block 2,5k healing on 25cd compared to crap sword offhand with 2 sec mobile block on 12cd? +offhand sword doesnt clip with mistward blindfold nor mistward shoulder

Difficult choice for sure!

Tried whole night diferent build from power to condi, nothing is useful , RIP rev at pvp, survivability was already a crap now its impossible…

After tonight i quit pvp entirely and it was the best thing gw2 had.

MLG levels of fury provided since betas… seriously this patch really sucks if you’re a Rev main.

I hope gigantic and overwatch come out sooner so i have something to go pvp in that’s not guild-wars 2 <.<

I think that condi Rev is as lethal in PvP as was before the patch; they barely had a dent in the build (aside from removing the def rune) but everyone is now a 40% more squishier than yesterday, so killing other classes is now even more easier.

Yes, sword and hammer got nerfs, but the general nerfs in sustain for all classes are larger, and we still have our full condi pressure intact.

All i wanted was for them to fix the left click auto-attack speed while under the effect of quickness so I could enjoy the option as designed…and they don’t seem to have done that

Buran.3796:

I think that condi Rev is as lethal in PvP as was before the patch; they barely had a dent in the build (aside from removing the def rune) but everyone is now a 40% more squishier than yesterday, so killing other classes is now even more easier.

Yes, sword and hammer got nerfs, but the general nerfs in sustain for all classes are larger, and we still have our full condi pressure intact.

They killed their stability and necros eat resistance how do you think condi revs can survive?

Shados.1306:

All i wanted was for them to fix the left click auto-attack speed while under the effect of quickness so I could enjoy the option as designed…and they don’t seem to have done that

They “forgot” to make Sword good at singling out targets even after these big changes to the weapon. Not surprised they haven’t fixed even half of the Revenant bugs and issues.

Camping auto on sword was crap and so was setting my auto to Hammer #2. Nerf welcomed … and anyone that wants interesting gameplay from what is supposed to be an exciting class would agree.

Obtena.7952:

Camping auto on sword was crap and so was setting my auto to Hammer #2. Nerf welcomed … and anyone that wants interesting gameplay from what is supposed to be an exciting class would agree.

Oh, yeah, that Precision Strike missing moving targets is so interesting and exciting!
See, I don’t buy this crap that AAs can’t be strong or a main source of damage. The whole point was that we could have something to fall back on since ALL of our skills eat Energy. You could focus 2-5 on utility or defense. Now, nerfing it slightly is fine, but then they made Sword 3 even worse, Sword 2 is a mess, and Hammer is still riddled with problems; it’s only use is CoR spam.

I’m not saying AA’s can’t be strong or that other changes aren’t questionable. I’m saying that as it was, the sword and hammer combo gave unimaginative, boring and stupid gameplay for a new class that’s intended to maintain player interest.

No one is going to admit it but in a year from now, when you actually have reasons to play other weapons, you MIGHT want to think back to this point to when this change happened and how it affected that.

Obtena.7952:

I’m not saying AA’s can’t be strong. I’m saying that as it was, it was boring, stupid gameplay for a new class that’s intended to maintain player interest.

Then stop being a mindless Revenant.
Yes, the skill floor is/was small, but that doesn’t mean you should just sit there and AA. There are a bunch of things you can do to both increase DPS and provide utility.

Obtena.7952:

Camping auto on sword was crap and so was setting my auto to Hammer #2. Nerf welcomed … and anyone that wants interesting gameplay from what is supposed to be an exciting class would agree.

How does one decide the standard for interesting game-play? How do you figure anything got better with Rev by these nerfs?

They need to remove energy costs on weapon skills at this point to make anything interesting for Rev or rework the idea of up-keep skills entirely.

You were in most cases not just simply spamming auto attacks if you were playing Rev for raids ect. For hammer if you wanted to be optimal for your damage output you would at least auto attack twice before pressing skill 2.

If you’re going to justify nerfs at least compare it to players actually playing and not being lazy.

There are always a bunch of things you can do for this and that to play smart. That doesn’t mean the old sword and hammer skills were reasonable options in the first place.

I mean, are you actually defending a 2 second cooldown on Hammer 2? I REALLY hope not. That was just ridiculous.

Stinja.9612:

Obtena.7952:

Camping auto on sword was crap and so was setting my auto to Hammer #2. Nerf welcomed … and anyone that wants interesting gameplay from what is supposed to be an exciting class would agree.

How does one decide the standard for interesting game-play?

I’m pretty sure Anet does that. I’m certainly not going to believe that anyone’s standard for interesting gameplay is limited to pressing 1 … OR 2. It’s the same problem with Guardian Hammer Auto … not interesting, and NEEDS to be rethought.

Ironically, these are exactly the things that people WANT nerfed when they don’t have variety in weapon options. Think about that.

Obtena.7952:

There are always a bunch of things you can do for this and that to play smart. That doesn’t mean the old sword and hammer skills were reasonable options in the first place.

I mean, are you actually defending a 2 second cooldown on Hammer 2? I REALLY hope not. That was just ridiculous.

I don’t know what you’re arguing at this point then.
You’re not arguing that it’s interesting or not anymore, but rather that they were OP, which is HIGHLY debatable.

Sword was our only DPS option and although its AA was on the higher end of the scale, the overall DPS was in-line with other classes (lower than others even!).
Sword 3 was already used mostly just for Defense and it had every single use nerfed.
Sword 2 is still trash.

Hammer just has CoR spam going for it, even now. That wasn’t fixed. However, the skill wasn’t really doing that much in PvP and was pretty much only causing chaos in large WvW fights. Meanwhile, the other skills are AWFUL at kiting and only #4 is really useful at anything other than hopefully stalling for a second.

Obtena.7952:

I’m pretty sure Anet does that. I’m certainly not going to believe that anyone’s standard for interesting gameplay is limited to pressing 1 … OR 2. It’s the same problem with Guardian Hammer Auto … not interesting, and NEEDS to be rethought.

Ironically, these are exactly the things that people WANT nerfed when they don’t have variety in weapon options. Think about that.

Again, if you limit yourself so much, it’s your own fault. Look at Ele Staff. Even worse since you could only really do good damage on stationary targets. However, there was a lot more to it that could make it really interesting while differentiating the bad from the good, even though a bad player could do really good DPS with just 1 and 2.

Also, your second point makes no sense.

I get I’m intruding on your thread but what I’m talking about is true and Anet knows it as well. Sword and Hammer play were not the same quality or level of complexity/difficulty as what you can get from other more developed classes. That simply doesn’t bode well for a new class that Anet SHOULD have applied everything they learned from the other 8 classes in the last 3 years to develop.

Obtena.7952:

I get I’m intruding on your thread but what I’m talking about is true and Anet knows it as well. Sword and Hammer play were not the same quality or level of complexity/difficulty as what you can get from other more developed classes. That simply doesn’t bode well for a new class that Anet SHOULD have applied everything they learned from the other 8 classes in the last 3 years to develop.

That’s fine if they want to make the class more complex. Completely fine by me, but it’s VERY clear you just wanted nerfs, not really changes.
Anet made that very clear too, because this patch didn’t make the class more complex, it just made it much weaker overall and much more frustrating to play. Enjoy Sword 2.

People gain affection for their favourite builds, so when they see them nerfed, they react very violently against the changes.

But to be honest, revenant’s nerfs were well thought out and all completely logical. Sword and hammer were too spammy because each of them had a single, spammable skill that was overtuned. Glint’s heal was too strong and too flexible, and in order to maintain its power, they had to tone down its flexibility.

And precision strike is a good skill now. Cry at me all you want. Precision strike is pretty decent. It may be clumsy at chasing targets because of how easily avoidable it is, but just ignore that it’s a ranged skill. Use it at melee just as you would with your other sword skills. Precision strike contributes to your burst with a good chunk of damage every 4 seconds and allows you to perma chill your target for no meaningful energy cost.

Varezenem.2813:

Buran.3796:

I think that condi Rev is as lethal in PvP as was before the patch; they barely had a dent in the build (aside from removing the def rune) but everyone is now a 40% more squishier than yesterday, so killing other classes is now even more easier.

Yes, sword and hammer got nerfs, but the general nerfs in sustain for all classes are larger, and we still have our full condi pressure intact.

They killed their stability and necros eat resistance how do you think condi revs can survive?

Instead of 100% uptime stability now Rev have, what? 60%? Evade: 3 seconds of stab, 2 seconds without; evade again: another 3 seconds of stab, 2 seconds without… rinse & repeat, profit. Is even less a problem since energy sigil went destroyed, so is not like the Revenant would be able to take advantage of them even without the new internal cooldown. I was playing al the PvP league with a DH which ist only source of stab was the bow trait (6 seconds every 10 seconds, and only one stack), so the new stab is roughly the same uptime but with x2 the number of stacks.

Yes, Reapers got buffed, but overall most of classses are now less tanky, so even not being top dogs Revs are still strong. Take a look over the new bottom tier (DH and Chronos), they will be useless for the nbext 3 moths… Revs are ok.

funny how anyone in top tier SPVP or pro teams is saying they’re still very strong, yet the Lowly Rev Reroller FoTM Love are QQIng that they’re now bad.. Umm, DH isn’t the bottom in the current and prolly wont be in the next.

Elementalist Warrior and Mesmer are the bottom Tiers of this Season Most likely unless another balance patch is released just before the New Season Starts which changes things.

Looking at the fact Elementalist and Mesmers were OP as hell previously, season 3 u’ll prolly be Looking at Thief, Revenant, Scrapper or Reaper being bottom tier, Prolly 2 of them + Warrior which will sit at the bottom still.

Given Rev hit nerfs this round, i’d Say Reaper and Thief, or Reaper and Scrapper will be bottom tier next round, and Prolly The Mesmer will come up, Elementalists are in a rut cant see them fixing at the end of the next Season, and I cant see Warriors picking up, so I think it’ll be the Return of Power Mesmer.

but no, DH is better this time round, but I dont rly know if it’ll make meta tier… its Just So Simplistic… so transparent.

Drayos.8759:

funny how anyone in top tier SPVP or pro teams is saying they’re still very strong, yet the Lowly Rev Reroller FoTM Love are QQIng that they’re now bad..

If you go by the word of all the folks that lurk in the profession boards, all professions are in a terrible state.

The problem with the profession boards is that they are biased towards a single point of view. There’s very few people who main other professions to go (t)here and tell otherwise.

Most of the crying posts in the profession boards would probably be laughed at if they posted in, say, the pvp board.

Drayos.8759:

funny how anyone in top tier SPVP or pro teams is saying they’re still very strong, yet the Lowly Rev Reroller FoTM Love are QQIng that they’re now bad..

Well it’s a good thing I’m not a Rev Reroller and Burtnik happens to be in Legendary division and also agrees that the changes were bad :^)

See, the changes were just very poorly thought out. Nerfs could be fine, but we got 0 compensation. Still HUGE issues on many skills, still GIANT issues with several Legends and traits, base Revenant is literally trash and the only thing we got were nerfs! It’s outrageous.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Most of the crying posts in the profession boards would probably be laughed at if they posted in, say, the pvp board.

Oh, the PvP board is even worse than the profession boards. Constant crying about literally anything. I even saw someone complaining about Revenant condition cleansing!
Then there’s the people who are really spiteful and just want classes trashed because they don’t like them in PvP. Is that correct?

Malchior.5732:

Nerfs could be fine, but we got 0 compensation.

See, this is a complete lie.

Either you think precision strike’s buffs make a difference or not, they ARE there. 100->300% damage buff and 2->4.5 chill duration are not small numbers to go by, even taking into account how avoidable this skill is at ranged.

You can say that sword was rebalanced, with power being taken to the strongest skills and being given to the weakest one.

if it was a meaningful change or not, that’s another question.

Malchior.5732:

Then there’s the people who are really spiteful and just want classes trashed because they don’t like them in PvP. Is that correct?

That I agree with you, but I still think it’s less one-sided.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Malchior.5732:

Nerfs could be fine, but we got 0 compensation.

See, this is a complete lie.

Either you think precision strike’s buffs make a difference or not, they ARE there. 100->300% damage buff and 2->4.5 chill duration are not small numbers to go by, even taking into account how avoidable this skill is at ranged.

You can say that sword was rebalanced, with power being taken to the strongest skills and being given to the weakest one.

if it was a meaningful change or not, that’s another question.

So we can conclude that Sword 2 is a BAD skill and was not changed appropriately to accommodate the changes.
How exactly does that count as compensation? Sword got much worse and the “buff” gives us a half-functional, buggy skill.

“oh, only use it in melee”
What a great solution for a RANGED skill that can be reflected in my face, has a very obvious animation and can just target random crap whenever it feels like it. Gee, we’re so lucky.

It’s like my car got stolen and got replaced with a pick-up truck with two tires. Like, what do you want me to do with this, exactly?

Malchior.5732:

“oh, only use it in melee”
What a great solution for a RANGED skill that can be reflected in my face, has a very obvious animation and can just target random crap whenever it feels like it. Gee, we’re so lucky.

Sword #3 can also auto-cancel for several clumsy reasons, be dodged away, and deal no damage against multiple opponents. Did that make sword #3 a terrible skill?

My point is: I know sword #2 has flaws, but don’t judge it solely by its flaws. Stay near your target, just as you would when you are AAing. The perma chill and the 4-5k damage IS nice.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Malchior.5732:

“oh, only use it in melee”
What a great solution for a RANGED skill that can be reflected in my face, has a very obvious animation and can just target random crap whenever it feels like it. Gee, we’re so lucky.

Sword #3 can also auto-cancel for several clumsy reasons, be dodged away, and deal no damage against multiple opponents. Did that make sword #3 a terrible skill?

My point is: I know sword #2 has flaws, but don’t judge it solely by its flaws. Stay near your target, just as you would when you are AAing. The perma chill and the 4-5k damage IS nice.

Actually, it makes Sword #3 a liability in a lot of cases and a good candidate for being turned into a single-target skill, albeit much weaker than before. Also, don’t forget that whoever you’re using it on can get you in a bad spot really quick if they’re smart, like dragging you into a really dangerous spot.
Was it terrible? No, but it was severely flawed since it scaled so poorly as the fights got bigger.

Sword 2 is half-functional. It’s a buggy, broken skill whose only merit is a very close-range burst, assuming you actually manage to stick to your target, land all 3 shots, and are running max damage (otherwise, it does really crappy damage; actually, even now, 4-5k at such close range isn’t great when I can hit pretty close to that or more with 1200 range skills that don’t bug out).
Yea, you can sorta use it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not awful at its job and that these changes were not very poorly done.

“Oh, lets make Sword better at singling out targets”
Then they proceed to NOT make Sword 5 better at its job, not fix any of Sword 2’s issues, nerf Sword AA and Sword 3, and now Sword 2-3 are not only buggy messes, but also get worse as you fight more targets.
You fighting a Ranger? Well, guess Sword 2/3 just lost a ton of their power.

EDIT: Some of you might not remember, but Revenant Sword Auto was changed during the Beta weekends because it used to use a projectile. It was changed because it would frequently bug out and was also an attack that was meant to be used a lot and could be reflected, making it a big liability and we got what we have now. A much better iteration.
However, now Anet wants us to use Sword 2, despite it being a skill that frequently bugs out and is also an attack that is meant to be used a lot and could be reflected, making it a big liability.
Anyone see a problem here?

I actually found all of the nerfs to be fair, the only thing thats hmm to me is sword 2. Its just not.. done correctly

I wouldn’t panic. We’re still decent I think, just maybe not top-tier.

We got big nerfs, we can only hope for any fixes in the next balance patch I guess.

DiogoSilva.7089:

People gain affection for their favourite builds, so when they see them nerfed, they react very violently against the changes.

But to be honest, revenant’s nerfs were well thought out and all completely logical. Sword and hammer were too spammy because each of them had a single, spammable skill that was overtuned. Glint’s heal was too strong and too flexible, and in order to maintain its power, they had to tone down its flexibility.

And precision strike is a good skill now. Cry at me all you want. Precision strike is pretty decent. It may be clumsy at chasing targets because of how easily avoidable it is, but just ignore that it’s a ranged skill. Use it at melee just as you would with your other sword skills. Precision strike contributes to your burst with a good chunk of damage every 4 seconds and allows you to perma chill your target for no meaningful energy cost.

I main condi necro/ s/d thief, and play condi rev in pvp since HoT drop. Now that we have that out of the way I can get to the point. This balance was bad, they over buffed necro and straight nerf hammered rev. The “changes” were bad, they were not thought out by anyone who plays the game. I’m not sure why anyone would bring a power rev to a match now, it’s a huge handicap.

If sword skills didn’t require energy it would be a different story, but considering that every skill used needs to be used with some thought behind it, the cost of the skill is outweighed by the effect now. If the enemy team has an ele or necro, just switch classes to something useful.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Malchior.5732:

“oh, only use it in melee”
What a great solution for a RANGED skill that can be reflected in my face, has a very obvious animation and can just target random crap whenever it feels like it. Gee, we’re so lucky.

Sword #3 can also auto-cancel for several clumsy reasons, be dodged away, and deal no damage against multiple opponents. Did that make sword #3 a terrible skill?

My point is: I know sword #2 has flaws, but don’t judge it solely by its flaws. Stay near your target, just as you would when you are AAing. The perma chill and the 4-5k damage IS nice.

Sword 2 is very unreliable. If it had better tracking I’d say it was a great skill, but it’s not a skill I’d work too hard positioning myself to use. Not worth it.

So a broken class got fixed and ur kitten about it. Ok.

Shovel Face.4512:

So a broken class got more broken and ur kitten about it. Ok.

Fixed for accuracy.
So yea, I guess so.

Obtena.7952:

There are always a bunch of things you can do for this and that to play smart. That doesn’t mean the old sword and hammer skills were reasonable options in the first place.

I mean, are you actually defending a 2 second cooldown on Hammer 2? I REALLY hope not. That was just ridiculous.

Stinja.9612:

Obtena.7952:

Camping auto on sword was crap and so was setting my auto to Hammer #2. Nerf welcomed … and anyone that wants interesting gameplay from what is supposed to be an exciting class would agree.

How does one decide the standard for interesting game-play?

I’m pretty sure Anet does that. I’m certainly not going to believe that anyone’s standard for interesting gameplay is limited to pressing 1 … OR 2. It’s the same problem with Guardian Hammer Auto … not interesting, and NEEDS to be rethought.

Ironically, these are exactly the things that people WANT nerfed when they don’t have variety in weapon options. Think about that.

do you really want to try justifying any of this with how strong Warriors and Thieves have been since launch? And with more Variety as well. All of your posts here have been about as much crap filled as the nerfs.

Would it be fairly accurate to say that it’s not so much the across-the-board nerfs in itself that has Revenant players up in arms, but that they’re being applied to a class that’s still only half-functional?

It’s like we were bleeding out on the sidewalk and the much-anticipated ambulance stopped, the paramedics got out and just kicked us in the head before climbing back in and driving off.

Whether the nerfs were justified or not (I’m mostly too casual to accurately assess) I honestly can’t blame the rev community for feeling more than a bit salty about this.

midnight tea.3681:

Would it be fairly accurate to say that it’s not so much the across-the-board nerfs in itself that has Revenant players up in arms, but that they’re being applied to a class that’s still only half-functional?

It’s like we were bleeding out on the sidewalk and the much-anticipated ambulance stopped, the paramedics got out and just kicked us in the head before climbing back in and driving off.

Whether the nerfs were justified or not (I’m mostly too casual to accurately assess) I honestly can’t blame the rev community for feeling more than a bit salty about this.

That’s a valid comparison.

DiogoSilva.7089:

People gain affection for their favourite builds, so when they see them nerfed, they react very violently against the changes.

But to be honest, revenant’s nerfs were well thought out and all completely logical.

Favourite builds?! Revenant haven’t builds he has just power build (Shiro/Glint), others legends (and so builds) are bad. And, since the start, the only viable build we have, power build is going to be gutted and gutted. Only nerfs!
It’s not only coz of that that people are raging. It’s cause, since BW3 nothing have been made for revenant (other than nerfs). Revenant still have a lot of bugs which have not been fixed (hammers, PT,UA,underwater weapon slot…) and that, during 5 months, the forum was just totally speaking of Jalis and Ventari being too bad and needing changes. And NOTHING have been made for. The revenant, since the start, is just a beta class gutted in one build which is now completly garbage(at last you can say, all the legends seems equal for now), full of bugs and with ANY improvements when actually everyone is speaking about it (not to mention that balance is normally nerfs but buffs too for finding a…balance). If that is not bad faith from anet balance team i don’t know what it is!

Drayos.8759:

but no, DH is better this time round, but I dont rly know if it’ll make meta tier… its Just So Simplistic… so transparent.

DH had 0 (of a roster of 80 players) usage in the season 1 pro league and seems that will have no use (again) in the season 2. Most of teams had two Revs in season one (some teams even tripled the class) and seems that having at least one per team would be viable in season 2.

Also, the whole season one meta was settled in stone in about 2-3 weeks; after that was utterly clear that using a Warrior, Thief or Guardian was wasting a slot. Since the current patch does only change the classes which are op, but doesn’t balance the viability between classes at all, it will only take a few days or weeks to settle a new meta. And after that, the useless classes will remain vain for 3-4 moths…

Obtena.7952:

I get I’m intruding on your thread but what I’m talking about is true and Anet knows it as well. Sword and Hammer play were not the same quality or level of complexity/difficulty as what you can get from other more developed classes. That simply doesn’t bode well for a new class that Anet SHOULD have applied everything they learned from the other 8 classes in the last 3 years to develop.

Guardian sword has had its strongest DPS in the autoattack chain pretty much since release (with the possible exception of sword/torch condi guardians after the buff to conditions), and nobody claimed that it was boring because of it. Same for necromancer dagger, and probably more that I don’t recall off the top of my head. The skill is in knowing when using the other skills is worth the DPS loss.

There’s no reason that revenant couldn’t have used that model. Frankly, I think having your autoattack (or fast-recharging skill 2, as the case may be) as your main damage-dealer and your other skills being things that you use tactically is more interesting than having a rotation that you have to go through to get your DPS.

Your model just changes it from being one skill that you use mindlessly while being ready to use the others if called for, to 3+ skills that you use mindlessly in a rotation while being ready to use the others if called for.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Drayos.8759:

funny how anyone in top tier SPVP or pro teams is saying they’re still very strong, yet the Lowly Rev Reroller FoTM Love are QQIng that they’re now bad..

If you go by the word of all the folks that lurk in the profession boards, all professions are in a terrible state.

The problem with the profession boards is that they are biased towards a single point of view. There’s very few people who main other professions to go (t)here and tell otherwise.

Most of the crying posts in the profession boards would probably be laughed at if they posted in, say, the pvp board.

This is true, but… to paraphrase Orwell, all profession forums claim they’re underpowered, but some are more underpowered than others.

I play multiple professions myself and… well, I’m planning to play a lot more Necromancer and a lot less Mesmer and Revenant until the next patch.

Varezenem.2813:

midnight tea.3681:

Would it be fairly accurate to say that it’s not so much the across-the-board nerfs in itself that has Revenant players up in arms, but that they’re being applied to a class that’s still only half-functional?

It’s like we were bleeding out on the sidewalk and the much-anticipated ambulance stopped, the paramedics got out and just kicked us in the head before climbing back in and driving off.

Whether the nerfs were justified or not (I’m mostly too casual to accurately assess) I honestly can’t blame the rev community for feeling more than a bit salty about this.

That’s a valid comparison.

Let’s see:

- no racial skills usable
- underwater combat is an afterthought (as in we can barely make do)
- terrible customisation options (due to class design)
- 2 useless legends from a total of 5 (4 if you look at the base class only)
- a LOT of bugs in class skills

Yup, checks out.

Also this heavy bias towards spvp in argumentation. Great, revenants were top tier, some of the 9 classes always will be due to the competative nature of the game (guess it’s thiefs turn now again). What about pve revenants? All they had going for was auto attack damage and boonbot. Conditions were not even on the radar.

While some form of nerfs and changes were justified. The extent of the nerfs coupled with literally 0 changes or fixes to the class while at the same time other classes were way overbuffed or unchanged (see Thief, Necro, Warrior) leaves a very bitter taste.

It leaves the player with the impression that arenanet are only focused on short term solutions that favor mixing up the spvp meta for their new found loveball that is spvp (a game mode that was and still is being shuned by a majority of the playerbase) instead of actual class design and balance.

I do want to say that solo PvE, I’ve not had any problems with my Rev personally. I run a Mallyx/Glint hybrid build that’s mostly Power but with very generous helpings of Tough+Vit so I can condi down enemies w/ Embrace the Darkness and AA. Since I like to use the sword (probably not ideal for Mallyx but w/e, I like applying vuln to make up for sacrificed power) the nerfs did actually sting pretty hard for me. But not too much since I’ve been mostly using sword AA + EtD and a lot of my damage is coming from the latter pulsing.

Underwater, funny enough I find the Revenant to be a bit OP despite being otherwise completely busted. Maybe not to the degree engineer grenades used to be there but it feels like a lot of underwater mobs were definitely not balanced for Impossible Odds + Spear AA. Which is kinda awesome on the player side, but it also feels like it’s the only really valid way to play Rev underwater regardless whether or not you’re a Shiro build.

I guess that actually drives to the heart of the matter: the Revenant is a busted character class not because we lack options, but that 80% of those options are terrible . For instance, I don’t know about any of you, but I hardly ever use my weapon skills because it rarely gives me the same bang for my buck for Energy cost as things like EtD.

All that said, I still love the class and the way I found myself playing it is perfectly functional for my own ends. I’ll even go as far as to say that Revenant is my dream profession for GW2, possessing in theory a class that can emulate almost every traditional MMO playstyle.
But it did take a hell of a lot of trial and error on my part to get to that place and with unilateral nerf waves like these it feels like my grip is pretty tenuous at best.

I know it’s normal for class forums to be extremely indignant when getting completely paddled by nerfs, but it hurts pretty hard when it’s a class that still lacks a lot of basic functionality and the one minor “buff” on the notes actually breaks the functionality of the skill it was trying to improve. A completely lackluster skill that they were trying to get people to include in their rotations, but in practice turned out to be more like that time when your mom forced you to invite the emotionally disturbed kid from your class to your birthday party.

midnight tea.3681:

Underwater, funny enough I find the Revenant to be a bit OP despite being otherwise completely busted. Maybe not to the degree engineer grenades used to be there but it feels like a lot of underwater mobs were definitely not balanced for Impossible Odds + Spear AA. Which is kinda awesome on the player side, but it also feels like it’s the only really valid way to play Rev underwater regardless whether or not you’re a Shiro build.

Wow, I can relate. I facerolled everything 1-80 with spear’s #2 and IO exclusively, I still do, with a lvl 60 spear.

Funny thing to note about our Underwater skills: Unyielding Anguish still works like our old Mallyx skills in the Beta before they “all” got changed.

midnight tea.3681:

I do want to say that solo PvE, I’ve not had any problems with my Rev personally. […]

Well, yes. GW2 PvE is pretty easy (even with HoT if you know where your dodge button is and what ‘animations’ are). Which is okay in terms of allowing many builds to be ‘viable’.
But at the end of the day, all that matters in PvE is DPS. Even Raids with their mechanics are mostly just DPS checks. So of course when you gut the PvE DPS potential of a class then that annoys people.

Based on the problem that PvE is for the most part about dem DPS, of course the Revenant sword 1 was doing the most damage. 2 was a skill to catch running enemies / slow pursuers, 3 was a skill that did okish damage, IF you attacked a single target, that was on your ground level and some other RNG factors. Other times it would not only do 0 damage because your charcter just stood there, at times you wouldn’t even get the evade frames despite it going on full cd. Not to mention you could and probably still can get stuck in walls and props using it. Sword and Axe offhand also had their uses with blocks, gap closers, interrupts. Bottomline is, sword 1 was the only logical source of damage.

BUT we must balance the game around PvP, so it had to change. Sword 2 got a 200% damage buff, IF the projectiles don’t bug out, which they often do, and IF you have a single target.

That’s a lot of ifs for skills that should be reliable. Not to mention that UA also got a nerf (5/7 of the previous hits, where every hit then does 10% more damage is effectively a 22% damage LOSS and you also get 2 stacks of might less for what it’s worth). UA is already unreliable and objectively worse than comparable skills, since Blurred Frenzy or Pistol Whip also cleave and don’t bug out for 0 damage.

Hammer 2 is really strong, but so what? Same things apply. The Hammer auto is pretty slow for okayish damage, 3 is just a glorified evade, 4 is alright and 5 is an unreliable interrupt because of the cast time. Hammer was nerfed in PvE because of WvWvW, where I can see it being way too strong. (And apparently it’s also much different now, as in a source can only hit by ANY CoR every 0,5s).
Hammer 2 made Hammer actually useable in PvE for some decent damage for a ranged weapon. Now it’s back to the shelf because the little utility doesn’t make up for the damage loss compared to melee.

Not to mention that all the other broken stuff is still broken, as it was mentioned countless times. I say it time and again, we need SPLIT BALANCING so this nonsense doesn’t happen. And I’m not buying the argument of ‘it would be too confusing for players’, since there already IS split balancing on a number of skills and effects. How is it not more confusing to have a handful of skills work different or with different numbers instead of the majority of them?

All you really need a revenant for now is the Facet of Nature buff. Might goes back to PS war, Fury can be done by Ele. So overall, meh.

I’m just tired of having my fun in PvE ruined because something is too strong / useful in PvP or WvW.
It’s kind of funny, really. Content updates are mostly for PvE and balancing is usually centered around PvP/WvW. Which frustrates both sides.

midnight tea.3681:

I do want to say that solo PvE, I’ve not had any problems with my Rev personally. […]

When refering to pve people usually mean raids and/or fractals. It should be obvious that any other pve content in this game is faceroll.

Sourde Noire.5286:

I’m just tired of having my fun in PvE ruined because something is too strong / useful in PvP or WvW.
It’s kind of funny, really. Content updates are mostly for PvE and balancing is usually centered around PvP/WvW. Which frustrates both sides.

This.

It’s not even about the nerfs. It’s the fact that the class has seen no type of improvements or fixes. It can’t be about pure damage too since necro and thief got absurd buffs (especially necro) so the only logical conclusion is spite.

It’s absolutely true that non-fractal non-raid PvE is still perfectly accessible for the Rev and indeed isn’t much of a strain for any of the professions. Still, that’s kinda all I need to be happy ultimately. Some of the MMOs I played back in the day regularly broke normal everyday faceroll soloing PvE play without apology or ceremony, such as vanilla WoW. I just want to stop and appreciate that ArenaNet doesn’t do this, even if our MMO standard-of-living has finally increased to the point of this seeming like I’m also appreciating them for not boiling puppies alive.

I’m not disagreeing with any points, mind you. I absolutely think you’re all right about what you’re saying. I’m just saying that casual players like me exist as well and we’re not as affected, which is probably related to why the Rev’s current busted place isn’t considered a prioritized emergency for ANet.

(That said, they absolutely cannot afford to leave this alone. Today’s casuals are tomorrow’s hardcores. I definitely will start feeling it if I try to march my faceroll builds into hardcore content and git gud enough that the busted elements start really making themselves known. In that sense, the Rev is a longterm emergency. But for now I’m okay.)

So funny, that rev has no good downed abilities, cos slow now doean’t work at finishers=)