Guild Wars 2

It’s completely unnecessary to have both energy requirements AND weapon skill cool downs. I get that the energy design works well with certain slot skills, but having to resource manage weapon skills that are already limited by timers is overdone.

The other day I was thinking about this same subject and came to the same conclusion. Furthermore it could be the opposite of what thieves have. Thieves have no cds on weapon skills but they do have them on their utility slots. Maybe that should be the other way around for revenants.

Only problem with that is that most of the utility skills are not worth using, even if they didn’t have an energy cost or CD, or even both. The jalis roadbuilding could have no CD and no cost and it would still be utter garbage. Before the cost or CD’s get removed, we have to pretty much rework the entire class first.

BlooDyliCious.5824:

Only problem with that is that most of the utility skills are not worth using, even if they didn’t have an energy cost or CD, or even both. The jalis roadbuilding could have no CD and no cost and it would still be utter garbage. Before the cost or CD’s get removed, we have to pretty much rework the entire class first.

? if you think no revenant utility skills are worth using (hello shiro)…

If Inspiring Reinforcement could be spammed it would be spammed.

Yannir.4132:

The other day I was thinking about this same subject and came to the same conclusion. Furthermore it could be the opposite of what thieves have. Thieves have no cds on weapon skills but they do have them on their utility slots. Maybe that should be the other way around for revenants.

Thats how it was supposed to be actually. Short cd on wep skills+energy cost and 0 cd utilities.

Burtnik.5218:

Yannir.4132:

The other day I was thinking about this same subject and came to the same conclusion. Furthermore it could be the opposite of what thieves have. Thieves have no cds on weapon skills but they do have them on their utility slots. Maybe that should be the other way around for revenants.

Thats how it was supposed to be actually. Short cd on wep skills+energy cost and 0 cd utilities.

That’s probably why I thought of it. Stuck somewhere in the subconscious.

IMO they could go back to that now. The weapon skills are fairly balanced, they just cost too much to use effectively. Not sure on utilities as Shiro may be too powerful without cooldowns, and healing skills definitely should have cds even if some of them are too long atm.

People keep suggesting this and I have to disagree with it. Having to properly manage energy costs is what gives rev its depth. Take away energy costs from weapon skills and the class just becomes another low skill floor/cap class where there are minimal repercussions for spamming weapon skills. Just because rev is mediocre to bad in most areas of the game right now doesn’t mean it can’t be balanced properly with energy costs on weapons.

People keep on whining about it, but design concepts aside I really don’t see how removing energy cost from weapons would help. It wouldn’t change PvE gameplay a tiny bit, it would be minor for WvW and in PvP likely result in another attempt at nerfing Shiro’s evade… and basically that’s it.

It really seems like a lot of people in here and on reddit stick to that old idea like a drowning man will clutch at a straw and won’t let it go. Revenant wouldn’t be fixed by it, not a one tiny bit.

Anybody with common sense can see that energy + cooldowns are an unnecessary double standard. Thief gets to have pure energy only skills and warrior gets low cooldown skills without any extra cost. Are there any weapon skills that are anymore effective than most thief or warrior weapon skills? Maybe Coalescence of Ruin but that’s about it.

IMO there are 2 possible solutions for the Rev in this case:

1. Remove energy costs from weapon skills completly. The utility skills are expensive enough.
2. Make AA of each weapon set to restore energy.
1-hand-chain: 1-1-3
2-hand-weapon: 5

Or something like this. Or both…..

There are plenty of games where skills have dual resource cost. Guild Wars 1, for example… Though this topic comes up a lot, I will still claim that removing energy cost from weapon skills will make Revenant very shallow to play and would not be beneficial. Here are my reasons:

1) I argue that many Revenant legend skill energy costs (though not necessarily effects or cooldowns) are well balanced right now: Shiro’s, Glint’s, Mallyx’s, and Ventari’s skills, primarily. Jalis’ skills are still a bit expensive, IMO, but that is probably because they’re just bad skills rather than that they cost too much. In other words, I think most Revenant builds right now do not need more energy, so removing energy costs from weapon skills (giving them more energy) would make them OP.

2) Removing energy costs from weapon skills would break Glint. Glint would be ridiculously OP, and playing Glint would be exceptionally boring.

3) In order to balance Rev around having no energy cost on weapon skills, ANet would probably increase cooldowns even more.

I still think the best solution for Revenant is the opposite of what is proposed here. Shorten the cooldowns on weapon skills and increase the energy cost on some of those weapon skills.

Ideally, a player would make a consideration about energy cost before using any weapon skill. I do not feel compelled to consider energy cost when I use Coalescence of Ruin. I only consider cooldown. Same for Unrelenting Assault, Precision Strike, and some others. I think the balance for weapon skills needs to be pushed more towards energy and less on cooldowns. To balance the increased energy demand, some utility skills costs could be reduced a bit (e.g. Phase Traversal, most of Jalis’ skills, Unyielding Anguish, etc.).

I know it would seem theoretically beneficial to have a wide range of skills with a wide range of energy costs, e.g. from 5 to 50 energy per skill. But in my experience with Rev, there’s really more of a narrow range, let’s say from 10-15 to 35-40 energy instead. Energy skills costing less than 5-10 basically feel free (we do not consider energy cost when debating whether or not to use them). Energy skills costing more 35-40 or more feel prohibitively expensive much of the time. Increasing weapon energy costs (while reducing cd’s) and decreasing utility skill costs will push more skills into this ideal cost range.

fluidmonolith.3584:

3) In order to balance Rev around having no energy cost on weapon skills, ANet would probably increase cooldowns even more.

I dont really care for the rest of you said but.. what? Have you compared cds to other classes and what they bring? Other classes have the same or even shorter cd’s with no extra cost behing them and in my cases they bring far more utility as well. Just compare war shield to rev shield, it some sad joke.

Rev wep skills were not only nerfed in cd’s, they were also directly nerfed in damage damage etc to stop please cus right now they arent even strong. Just compare s/s rev to scrapper hammer. Its like day n night.

Burtnik.5218:

fluidmonolith.3584:

3) In order to balance Rev around having no energy cost on weapon skills, ANet would probably increase cooldowns even more.

I dont really care for the rest of you said but.. what? Have you compared cds to other classes and what they bring? Other classes have the same or even shorter cd’s with no extra cost behing them and in my cases they bring far more utility as well. Just compare war shield to rev shield, it some sad joke.

Rev wep skills were not only nerfed in cd’s, they were also directly nerfed in damage damage etc to stop please cus right now they arent even strong. Just compare s/s rev to scrapper hammer. Its like day n night.

I am not disagreeing with you about weapon cooldowns on Revenant skills being similar to those of other professions. I am simply stating that I think ANet would increase Rev’s weapon skill cooldowns if they removed the energy cost. I just don’t think they would remove the energy cost without compensating somewhere else.

fluidmonolith.3584:

Burtnik.5218:

fluidmonolith.3584:

3) In order to balance Rev around having no energy cost on weapon skills, ANet would probably increase cooldowns even more.

I dont really care for the rest of you said but.. what? Have you compared cds to other classes and what they bring? Other classes have the same or even shorter cd’s with no extra cost behing them and in my cases they bring far more utility as well. Just compare war shield to rev shield, it some sad joke.

Rev wep skills were not only nerfed in cd’s, they were also directly nerfed in damage damage etc to stop please cus right now they arent even strong. Just compare s/s rev to scrapper hammer. Its like day n night.

I am not disagreeing with you about weapon cooldowns on Revenant skills being similar to those of other professions. I am simply stating that I think ANet would increase Rev’s weapon skill cooldowns if they removed the energy cost. I just don’t think they would remove the energy cost without compensating somewhere else.

I get what you are saying but they need to ask themselves… Compensating for what? Revenant is already in a bad spot, it only needs buffs/things that could help the class right now and not those stupid “compensation” changes they do like this piece of garbage:

Inspiring Reinforcement October 18, 2016

Stability duration has been increased from 1 second to 1.5 seconds per pulse.
The resource cost has been increased from 30 to 35.

I kittening chuckled when I read that.

no major changes to the base class will be made until the next Expansion.

Still feel free to continue to make suggestions though.

This topic has been around quite a few times. I agree that weapon skills shouldn’t have an energy cost. (Also wish energy above 50% would slowly drain back to 50% when out of combat rather than instantly reverting.)

Rym.1469:

People keep on whining about it, but design concepts aside I really don’t see how removing energy cost from weapons would help. It wouldn’t change PvE gameplay a tiny bit, it would be minor for WvW and in PvP likely result in another attempt at nerfing Shiro’s evade… and basically that’s it.

It really seems like a lot of people in here and on reddit stick to that old idea like a drowning man will clutch at a straw and won’t let it go. Revenant wouldn’t be fixed by it, not a one tiny bit.

This. A hundred times. They just need to balance them better, cause we keep getting increased CDs and energy costs and lower effectiviness. That’s not how it supposed to work. Pick one or the other.

High energy cost = Low CD + Good dmg.
Low energy cost= High CD + Good dmg
High CD = Low energy + Good dmg
Low dmg = Low energy + Low CD
High dmg = High CD + medium energy

Etc, etc, just do the math…

I agree with the “no need to mess with weapon energy costs” approach. Rev was made to be complex and have resource considerations on every step. Take that away and it’ll get spammy/boring/ubernerfed.

Especially since weapon energy costs are in most cases really moderate compared to utilities.
Now utilities here and there could use some energy reductions, but then again the only legend i feel is heavily underperforming (for ridicilous energy costs) is poor Mallyx, and well…he’s already got tons of issues on his own.

What revenant really needs are some bug fixes (hello terrain issues for waaay to many skills, including important sword #3 and vengeful hammers) and serious rework of his condi kit – all that torment applied in forms that favour enemy staying immobile, thus doing only 1/2 of it’s potential damage.

I agree with the above. having cooldowns and energy costs on weapons is just overkill. thieves have energy on weapon skills, and cooldowns on utilities. revenant should have cooldowns on weapon skills and energy costs on utilities and build around that. if utility skill costs need to be adjusted to compensate so be it, but for faster gameplay i think they are fine as they are.

I agree. Cooldowns on weapons, energy costs (perhaps + cooldowns in the case of powerful skills) for utility skills.

The cooldowns are already pretty average/high as if they had no energy (the rest of the classes). Energy costs need to leave asap.

I agree with the idea of removing energy costs on weapon skills since they already have fair CDs. Utilities, Elite, and Heal can keep their current cost+CD or be adjusted for balancing in the future.