Guild Wars 2

First and foremost, I realise that Beta is Beta and doesn’t represent the final product. However, I’am concerned about the attention (or rather, the lack thereof) being given to the Revenant’s and it’s gameplay capabilities underwater.

After the previous weekend, there was a thread on this issue that recieved no response from ANet, and the fact the issue still seems to persist with no change, concerns me. I would not be surprised if ANet literally have overlooked it, and I feel it’s important we remind them that this issue is still around before the final release of the expansion at the end of the month.

I know ANet right now are trying to phase out underwater content, but the fact of the matter is, alot of the current game world is based underwater, and Revenant’s should have just as much right to play effectively in this water based content as any other class as a result. Especially because some of us actually like this game’s underwater combat system, and wish it would recieve a bit more attention from the devs, but that’s another issue.

Anyway, the problem is this:

Underwater, the Revenant only has access to two sets of utility skills; Shiro and Mallynx. This isn’t necessarily the issue itself, but read on. Now, most classes have a limited pool of skills to choose from underwater, so this in of itself might be fine. However, due to the way the Revenant works and is implemented, it causes problems for the class.

See, the other utility skill sets, Glint, Jalis and Ventari, don’t work underwater. However, as your chosen utility skillsets remain the same for underwater as they do for land, if your chosen Legends are Glint, Ventari, or Jalis, when you enter water you will literally have no access to any utilities (including no self-heal!) whatsoever.

This means that in any fight you will be at a massive and unfair disadvantage. In WvW (which does currently include and will still include underwater combat sections in the expansion), this is basically an automatic loss for the Revenant player if any fight occurs with a body of water nearby. It also basically prevents a Revenant from effectively running the Honor of the Waves explorable dungeon paths, not to mention all the heart quests in the world that require underwater activities.

You could switch Legends whenever you enter water, if out of combat, but this is not possible when dipping between land or water while in combat which happens quite frequently in some PvP formats (WvW). Plus, having to swap Legends whenever you go underwater is unintuitive and annoying anyway, not to mention then having to swap back to what you were originally using when you get back onto land. Once again though, this is not a possible workaround if switching into water mode while already in combat.

To compound this problem, the starting Legend for Revenant’s is Jalis; A Legend without any underwater utilities. What if the player doesn’t unlock Shiro or Mallynx’s utility skillsets till last when levelling?

A solution must be implemented to this issue before final release;
Possible Solutions
1 – Enable all Legends’ utility skills underwater. The best fix, but also the most work for ANet.
2 – Have the game remember a Revenant’s Legend selection when underwater, and swap between a different set of selected Legends whenever you enter water, or come up onto dry land, respectively. This is currently how the Ranger’s pet selection works, so it’s definitely doable and would be less work for ANet. It would also be more consistent with other classes, as other classes can pre-pick a different set of utility skills for underwater combat as opposed to land combat.

in addition, one of these must be implemented:
3A – Make Shiro the starting legend for Revenants instead of Jalis.
3B – Enable the use of the Jalis Legend’s utility skills underwater (preferable).

These changes are necessary to bring Revenant up to the same high standards of polish and general practical usability as other classes in the game in general. Don’t keep ignoring all underwater content ANet! Imagine how off-putting this issue could be to a new player who joins GW2 for Heart of Thorns and creates a Revenant as his first character. It could cause him to quit, or at least reroll with a bitter taste in his mouth, don’t risk losing players, new ones in particular, over this!

Please stop forgetting about the underwater portion of your game ANet!

I agree to op.
And i would like to add about downed state in underwater. Maybe we can make some changes? All classes have different skills if downed on earth or underwater, revenant haven’t.
I’m ok with the first skill but maybe 2 and 3 or must be changed. What about a portal for upping foward the surface or a mist rush or something like this?

PS: Underwater combat it’s one of the most fun thing in this game it’s pretty sad they disabled the underwater pvp arena…

+1 Hope that this get adressed. Would be a bummer if our elite spec Glint couldn’t be used underwater. Has anyone had the chance to test spear underwater? How is the weapon damage wise and how did the skills/synergy with the legends feel?

KotCR.6024:

A solution must be implemented to this issue before final release;
Possible Solutions
1 – Enable all Legends’ utility skills underwater. The best fix, but also the most work for ANet.
2 – Have the game remember a Revenant’s Legend selection when underwater, and swap between a different set of selected Legends whenever you enter water, or come up onto dry land, respectively. This is currently how the Ranger’s pet selection works, so it’s definitely doable and would be less work for ANet. It would also be more consistent with other classes, as other classes can pre-pick a different set of utility skills for underwater combat as opposed to land combat.

Totally agree, so annoying to have to manually change legends – and I guess you can’t even to so in-combat.

Nokturn.8695

How is the weapon damage wise and how did the skills/synergy with the legends feel?

It’s a blast on a condi build. On a power build, so and so, felt like ranger spear. The revenant’s built-in self-healing from traits is a rather too strong for the poor fish in sparkfly fen, I was still alive and near full HP after going afk for a while.

KotCR.6024:

in addition, one of these must be implemented:
3A – Make Shiro the starting legend for Revenants instead of Jalis.
3B – Enable the use of the Jalis Legend’s utility skills underwater (preferable).

I don’t think that’s much of problem: healing skills cost 2 hero points, and you should have managed at least 2 skill challenges by level 8 (when underwater skills start to unlock).

Agreed, particularly since I like underwater combat (I understand why some people don’t, and it certainly needs a lot of polish to become all it could be, but the fundamentals are actually pretty sound).

Personally, I was under the impression that Shiro and Mallyx were just the first underwater legends to be implemented, and that others (possibly not all, but at least some) will be coming. They just require more work. Dragon could be adapted fairly easily – just turn the elemental breath attack into a cone from the user, similar to Drake’s Breath. Ventari could have the tablet be controlled by a three-skill toggle (follows the player by default, skill 1 causes it to start moving outward in a direction, skill 2 makes it stop moving, skill 3 makes it return). Dwarf is probably the most complicated to get to work underwater, but it can probably still be done.

When it comes to low-level character – I think the NPE made it so that underwater combat doesn’t unlock until level 10 or so, so as long as there’s at least one (preferably two) underwater legends available by then, it shouldn’t be a big deal.

I hope all Rev‘s skills can be used in the water,but…
: (

I played a combo that left me completely without skills underwater bwe3; that sucked

well no utilities that is

This is definitely important and requires some attention. I’m one of those people who actually likes underwater combat (and loved the pirate ship PvP map) and it saddens me to think underwater combat is just being ignored. Especially since there are a number of personal story missions that rely on underwater combat. A solution would definitely be to remember underwater legend selection separately to the ones you choose on land, the same way every other proffesion’s utilities swap when they go underwater. And those remaining legends should surely be altered to work in water too, I can’t imagine that being an issue at launch.

people play underwater content?

It a F***** beta !!, ofc we wont have the rest of the legends/utilities! they are still building it or something like that

Looks like a bug. +1, fix that ASAP.

Rich Fuel.7253:

It a F***** beta !!, ofc we wont have the rest of the legends/utilities! they are still building it or something like that

The worrying thing is that it was a beta three weeks before release, with no changes made to underwater combat (apart from the changes that were also made to the dry-land legend skills) since the second. There’s precious little time left to make it functional.

At the very least, legends need to auto-swap to Shiro and Mallyx when underwater. There is content in the game where you have to be ready to fight as soon as you hit the water, and therefore might not have the luxury to be able to switch legends.

Glint seems like it should be one of the easier ones to put underwater compared to most other classes really, at least the passive versions of the skills. Dunno about the actives, but it seems like most of them shouldn’t have to change much from their land version.

Most of them should be easy. Light active is on the Herald, Darkness and Nature on the area around the herald. Strength and Chaos affect an area in the direction the herald is facing. Only difficult one is Elements, and that could simply be made to be a column on your target’s location, similar to Ray of Judgement on the guardian trident.

What about Revenant’s weapon swap? They only have spear underwater AFAIK.

I now have my underwater skills but I had to remove and reinstall my game, At that time I had a level 80 boost for the first one and built a level 1 also. When I reinstalled it my 80 boost had her skills but the 20 still had no skills so I killed her off and built another warrior

caerulean.4837:

This is definitely important and requires some attention. I’m one of those people who actually likes underwater combat (and loved the pirate ship PvP map) and it saddens me to think underwater combat is just being ignored. Especially since there are a number of personal story missions that rely on underwater combat. A solution would definitely be to remember underwater legend selection separately to the ones you choose on land, the same way every other proffesion’s utilities swap when they go underwater. And those remaining legends should surely be altered to work in water too, I can’t imagine that being an issue at launch.

I personally think underwater combat is fun, to many people look down on it, there is nothing wrong with combat itself, but some classes need more skills underwater.

Shiro as a starter would be kitten.I’m fine with Jallis…but I think Malyx is just as good a pick for a starter legend.

if your chosen Legends are Glint, Ventari, or Jalis, when you enter water you will literally have no access to any utilities (including no self-heal!) whatsoever.

I’m afraid that is false.

You do not have access to these utilities the very first time you go underwater. The moment you set up the underwater legends the stay in memory and you don’t need to set them again the next time you enter underwater even if on land you were wearing glint/ventari/jalis. (At least for me it has always worked like that).

Beside for every profession the underwater skill are kept in memory as well and may vastly differ from the land skills. There is no real reason to feel upset or more limited than any other profession.

What’s the most crippling in revenant underwater is more how Unyielding anguish work, keeping ennemies out of it.

Dadnir.5038:

What’s the most crippling in revenant underwater is more how Unyielding anguish work, keeping ennemies out of it.

I actually enjoy seeing this as the underwater skill still uses the Beta version of the skill. The Beta version was very sweat! It got nerfed down to its current state because it was a new and interesting mechanic (displacement) that a lot of whiners in PvP complained about because it was “disorienting.” My take was that it was disorienting because it was new and unique which they hadn’t adapted to at the time. If they would have kept it in place (and some other Mallyx beta skills) then we’d have some great mechanics.

So, anyway that one skill is amusing underwater if only because it takes me back. It isn’t the best for underwater though. And Rev. in underwater in general is certainly and painfully broken.

Invictus.1503:

Dadnir.5038:

What’s the most crippling in revenant underwater is more how Unyielding anguish work, keeping ennemies out of it.

I actually enjoy seeing this as the underwater skill still uses the Beta version of the skill. The Beta version was very sweat! It got nerfed down to its current state because it was a new and interesting mechanic (displacement) that a lot of whiners in PvP complained about because it was “disorienting.” My take was that it was disorienting because it was new and unique which they hadn’t adapted to at the time. If they would have kept it in place (and some other Mallyx beta skills) then we’d have some great mechanics.

So, anyway that one skill is amusing underwater if only because it takes me back. It isn’t the best for underwater though. And Rev. in underwater in general is certainly and painfully broken.

I never knew this…While I agree mechanic wise Underwater Malyx is slightly more interesting mechanic wise, I think the version of Malyx we have for ground combat is slightly more practical because it adds some more mobility.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Invictus.1503:

Dadnir.5038:

What’s the most crippling in revenant underwater is more how Unyielding anguish work, keeping ennemies out of it.

I actually enjoy seeing this as the underwater skill still uses the Beta version of the skill. The Beta version was very sweat! It got nerfed down to its current state because it was a new and interesting mechanic (displacement) that a lot of whiners in PvP complained about because it was “disorienting.” My take was that it was disorienting because it was new and unique which they hadn’t adapted to at the time. If they would have kept it in place (and some other Mallyx beta skills) then we’d have some great mechanics.

So, anyway that one skill is amusing underwater if only because it takes me back. It isn’t the best for underwater though. And Rev. in underwater in general is certainly and painfully broken.

I never knew this…While I agree mechanic wise Underwater Malyx is slightly more interesting mechanic wise, I think the version of Malyx we have for ground combat is slightly more practical because it adds some more mobility.

The original version was still ground targeted (underwater just removes that) so it had the mobility aspect still. What it did was offer a slight sanctuary in PvE where enemies couldn’t melee you for a moment (great against pocket raptors). In PvP it was great for capping/decapping because it could displace people out of the cap zone and they would have to burn some stability to get into your field. It was awesome and very strategic, but too many people complained because they didn’t want to adapt to a new mechanic. Then, as they often do, Anet caved in to the whining of a vocal minority.

A year gone by…I just started the game…my level 15 Revenant has no underwater heal or utility skills. OK I can kill a Veteran mob without healing, but come on! How many levels will it be before I get all my skills?

Even when you get them, you’re missing most… They really need to fix this before this next expansion. It’s really silly that the revenant has 0 choices for underwater combat (malyx and shiro only legends), except traits.

It’s not that crazy to imagine they finish the product they made? It’s just a few animations for some legends to change ground targeting to forward targeting (like they did with engineer) and bam, done!

Please do this, Revenant would feel a lot more complete with at least one additional legend for underwater combat. But if you take the time, please just add them all.

At least they could put jalis underwater and glint for herald.
This would fix a lot of stuff. I doubt that they will put an additional underwater weapon on rev.
I would like trident as a underwater melee though.

I can’t comprehend why ANet can’t at least give us the basic heal ability, o.O

Isn’t Orr still a lot of underwater stuff?

I just got around to starting Rev this week – it just doesn’t fit well with the NPE set-up.

Elva.6372:

I can’t comprehend why ANet can’t at least give us the basic heal ability, o.O

Isn’t Orr still a lot of underwater stuff?

You should presumably have all of your stances unlocked by the time you make it to Orr…

KotCR.6024:

See, the other utility skill sets, Glint, Jalis and Ventari, don’t work underwater. However, as your chosen utility skillsets remain the same for underwater as they do for land, if your chosen Legends are Glint, Ventari, or Jalis, when you enter water you will literally have no access to any utilities (including no self-heal!) whatsoever.
This means that in any fight you will be at a massive and unfair disadvantage. In WvW (which does currently include and will still include underwater combat sections in the expansion), this is basically an automatic loss for the Revenant player if any fight occurs with a body of water nearby. It also basically prevents a Revenant from effectively running the Honor of the Waves explorable dungeon paths, not to mention all the heart quests in the world that require underwater activities.
You could switch Legends whenever you enter water, if out of combat, but this is not possible when dipping between land or water while in combat which happens quite frequently in some PvP formats (WvW). Plus, having to swap Legends whenever you go underwater is unintuitive and annoying anyway, not to mention then having to swap back to what you were originally using when you get back onto land. Once again though,

I don’t know if it’s a problem with your client, or if your Revenant is only level 20 and you’re just speculating this problem, but when I go underwater, it AUTOMATICALLY equips Shiro and Mallyx no matter what stances I had up in dry land. It even remembers which I was using last and starts me off there. And then when I pop out of water, same thing, it switches back to my land set up with my previously active legend up and running.

This is literally only a problem until level 30 or so, which you may notice is way too low of a level for Honor the Waves or worrying about being competitive in WvW .

Figures this would be a necro thread. Still, Ventari should have been the first and the easiest transition. Just treat it the way engineer turrets were treated underwater- have the stone spawn on top of the player. To move it the player has to swim to a destination first and then click the move button again to have the stone travel wherever they are. It should – still heal whatever friendlies it passes through. What more, all the other buttons are point blank area effect abilities centred around the stone so that shouldn’t be a problem either.

Iozeph.5617:

Figures this would be a necro thread. Still, Ventari should have been the first and the easiest transition. Just treat it the way engineer turrets were treated underwater- have the stone spawn on top of the player. To move it the player has to swim to a destination first and then click the move button again to have the stone travel wherever they are. It should – still heal whatever friendlies it passes through. What more, all the other buttons are point blank area effect abilities centred around the stone so that shouldn’t be a problem either.

Centaur’s can’t swim.