Guild Wars 2

Morfedel.4165:

Ice.5162:

Here’s a proposition: Disable condition removal from allies while under the Mallyx legend, tension solved. =) I agree it really ruins the uniqueness of the stance, it just seems like another condition spammer spec…

I don’t think thats something thats easily programmed in.

Then you spend more time on it jesus. They are not first year programmer students.

Hey there, Roy! Just wanted to say thanks for the heads up on the changes. Also, I have a suggestion for the hand-glow; make it an in-combat effect only, much like the elementalist elemental ring around their hands when they’re holding their weapons. It can be kinda distracting when standing around in town clothing.

Killyox.3950:

Banish Enchantment – Bad. Kinda bugger because now it’s 3 and that’s it. Previously it could go to 6 if conditions were met and 3 like that. The way I see it is straight out nerf

it was 2 stacks 6s on activation + same as bonus with 3 condions on you.
So is kinda buff since not always you have 3 condi on you.
Totally agree on rest.

The biggest offender in the changes is Mallyx XD.

Now it will be your generic #52356 thingy. There’s nothing about darkness, corruption, power overwhelming about it anymore.

Unique (although with problems) legend became a generic one.

Why would I even want to absorb conditions from allies if I can’t pulse them ? Is Mallyx support now ?

Why wasn’t Embrace the Darkness upkeep cost reduced? Its power got cleaved with no condition copying. It shouldn’t cost -8 anymore. -8 for 10% stats and some torment is not worth it imo. That’s th energy I will not have to actually use other skills that apply conditions.

You can even remove 10% stats and give it something else like torment + cripple or torment + poison (and suddenly Venom Enhancement would be a decent choice!).

STAT increases are BORING. Games are about having fun.

IMO you should have kept the self conditions even if there was no scaling, they could use self conditions as a reason to have the skills be strong. Also, instead of conflicting with supports, it would benefit from having supports near you.

Mallyx was the only way to try and stall a dd cele ele on a node

@Roy, don’t give up. Don’t make Mallyx (or other legends) bland and generic. Now is the time to actually brain storm it because later it will be too late. Think of something but make Mallyx full of flavour again. This thing here is not Mallyx it’s just some random stuff that applies conditions.

Whole concept of using Mallyx’s power against his will and thus getting afflicted by conditions and all went outside the window. It became a support that pulls in conditions and has no use of them.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

In this stance we had a bit of a bigger change happen. Demon Stance was in an awkward place because it was mechanically cool when you looked at it in a vacuum, but when you were put around other players there was this point of tension which was created. When using demon stance you wanted to manage your conditions and try to keep certain amounts on yourself to empower your skills.

I hate to kvetch about changes that haven’t had a chance to be put to the test, but I think the fix you needed was a lot simpler than what you had. Rather than taking away everything that made Mallyx unique, add this: F2 toggle skill (like Glint’s), no upkeep. While active, the Revenant is immune to allied condi cleanses. Or give it a minor upkeep and something like “burst of damage per condi on Rev” when toggle is disabled. I understand that Glint is supposed to be special, but I liked that I had some support from my other legend even if I wasn’t in that stance at the time; IMNSHO each legend should get an F2 skill (well, F2/F3, because you’d have two legends equipped, but…).

Otherwise, the changes look good, and all I have to say is “Set all Chronomancers to Time Warp, because 23rd Oct can’t come soon enough!”

Can we now address the elephant in the room? Conditions.

With Mallyx being a portion of what it was before, how does Revenant reliably deal with conditions on self? I’m speaking totally from a PvP (and pseudo-solo WvW) play-style perspective.

Claiming that the Revenant needs “some weakness” means it will fall into the launched version of Warrior where it is totally owned and massacred by any opponent condition-heavy build (before Warrior received mega-buffs). Giving Staff a mobile condition cleanse (still at 15 cooldown) is only a small step towards fixing the underlying issue now that weapon autoattacks spam conditions.

As is, how can Revenant be useable in PvP with a condition heavy meta? Do not point to Ventari/Centaur stance and expect every Revenant to play support unless you go the way of the Herald line and give every specialized trait line a bonus F2, F3, F4 skill that supports the mechanics of Revenant when not in that particular legendary stance.

Weapons:
I like the changes to the shield, both of them, they improve it vastly.
I like the changes to the sword main hand, precision strike and unrelenting assault.
I like the changes to staff.

Assassin Stance
Jade winds I feel the 5s cool down is probably needed though a reduction in the stun would have been better in my opinion.

Centaur Stance
I like the energy reductions to the centaur stance across the board.
I don’t like the 5s cool down on Purifying essence as having energy cost was the trade off for the ability to use a skill back to back. I would rather it cost more and no cool down.

Dwarf Stance
Yeah an OK change, perhaps 30 energy cost might be nicer.

Demon Stance
On the whole I welcome the change to drawing conditions to you and pulsing them out. It didn’t work in groups and penalised you for being cleansed and made support roles interact badly.

Empowering misery, pain absorption and banish enchantment I’m fine with the changes.

Unyielding anguish I like the change to displacement as displacement was too strong. I do not like the cool down and if it’s only 1s chill and 1 stack of 6s torment then this is very weak even for a pulsing field.

Embrace the Darkness I felt was weak in BW2 anyway because I kept being cleansed. This change however doesn’t justify the 8 upkeep it has. Max amount of torment you can keep on people is 6 stacks, which takes 6s to achieve at the cost 48 energy. I feel this is too high a cost.

Herald
Fine with the changes.
Hardening persistence and Enhanced bulwark I feel need work as they’re not competitive in my opinion.

Corruption
Pulsating Pestilence I feel is too random, I’d prefer if it was on weapon or legend swap so we have some control over it.
Replenishing despair looks fine.
Venom Enhancement is improved but as you say the real problem is the lack of poison application (only on mace auto) and it doesn’t seem to really fix this as poison wasn’t added anywhere else.

Devastation
Makes the master tier competitive but I now feel that the adept tier is very underwhelming if using a 2 hander weapon mainly.

Retribution
Sensible changes, I like the sound of the new trait.

Generally it’s alright but I have a few concerns.

It feels like the uniqueness of revenant having no cool down on utility skills is disappearing rapidly and I can see more cool downs being added after launch when people complain.

Demon Stance elite upkeep is far too high for what it does now. I’d like to see it at 5 energy upkeep so you can maintain this pulsing pressure (and BA appearance) at the cost of no energy regen.

I feel Demon Stance doesn’t have a lot of condition management options outside of resistance. I’d like to see Unyielding Anguish transfer your conditions. This would work well with pain absorption and enables you to manage conditions much more effectively especially if it’s going to have a 10s cool down.

Just add either condition transfer on use of Mallyx elite or a conversion of conditions to boons while elites is active. Like 1 condi to boon/transfer per 1-3 seconds. That would fix the condition problem.

Hongyuan.3802:

Mallyx was the only way to try and stall a dd cele ele on a node

“DD ele is too strong and we’re looking into it.”
-Proceed to nerf one of the few builds that could counter it

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Morfedel.4165:

Ice.5162:

Here’s a proposition: Disable condition removal from allies while under the Mallyx legend, tension solved. =) I agree it really ruins the uniqueness of the stance, it just seems like another condition spammer spec…

I don’t think thats something thats easily programmed in.

Then you spend more time on it jesus. They are not first year programmer students.

Wow, hostile much?

Morfedel.4165:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Morfedel.4165:

Ice.5162:

Here’s a proposition: Disable condition removal from allies while under the Mallyx legend, tension solved. =) I agree it really ruins the uniqueness of the stance, it just seems like another condition spammer spec…

I don’t think thats something thats easily programmed in.

Then you spend more time on it jesus. They are not first year programmer students.

Wow, hostile much?

No, I simply dont get how you can think the devs can create such a huge game and have issues programming a functionality like that.

There are a lot of great changes here but like most people have been saying, we lost a lot of unique stuff.

Thank you for the dodge FX! That’s freaking awesome!

Downed
Yes it was very buggy but we lost that uniqueness. Would there be a way to make it only stick to a certain range? For example, it would never teleport the target to a range closer than 300. So it would do its job and still work as intended?

Sword
Thanks for the add to precision Strike but was the projectile tested? Because it seemed very buggy and would miss even within its range indicators.
I totally agree with the Unrelenting Assault change. It was a good change because 10s was pretty low for a skill that gives you access to an evade. Sure it can be countered easily but it was just up too quick and this way we can manage our energy better and be less spammy. So overall its a great change!

Staff
Awesome changes here! Thank you so much Roy! These were very much so needed because staff is all about countering and being able to stay on the move.

Shield
Although the breaker bar was buggy I think it should have received more work to make it work as intended because it was really unique to us!
Also as someone said, Envoy of Exuberance could be a blast finisher since we lack those.

Jade Winds
I don’t know why people are against this change. It just prevents you from destroying all your energy so its just seen as a helpful thing in my eyes for new players. Besides there’s no reason you should have to use Jade Winds twice any ways >.>

Ventari
I didn’t get time to try any Ventari stuff but looking at other peoples reply’s this seems like a very welcoming change for the stance.

Mallyx
Really lost pretty much all of its things. Its fun factor and uniqueness are gone with these changes.

Jalis
Thank for this change! It was much needed as it felt pretty hefty. I also think the CD increase is very justified because it could be really bad if spammed on an enemy and wouldn’t promote any skillful gameplay. So great change here!

Herald
Some more great changes here and gives support Revenants a better might gen which overall is a very great change!

Corruption
I remember someone replayed to my feed back thread with a very understandable change to Pulsating Pestilence. Since the changes to Mallyx this trait would sort of not make sense since we lost the condition management.

But the change that was suggested by nearlight:
“It should only trigger at a condition threshold of 3 or more conditions and then have a 100% chance to trigger at or above that threshold. It’s cooldown can be slightly raised accordingly to 20 seconds or so, but that’s the only way to make this trait GM worthy and reliable.’’

As for the changes to Replenishing Despair and Venom Enchantment are great! The felt like they had zero impact before but now the traits look good. The heal would be 129 per second of receiving conditions. Which doesn’t seem bad but I think it should work better with healing power now(unless I’m mistaken) The change to Venom Enchantment but it seems better than pulsating pestilence since pestilence seems really weak now. Maybe they could switch places on the trait line unless pestilence is changed into something more reliable.

Devastation
Good changes here that just keep things in line.

Retribution
The loss of having protection on CC seems like a big hit. Eye for an Eye is a kitten CD so it seems kinda weird to have these two traits combined. As for Dwarven Battle Training, the weakness proc seems okay but since its combined with the second part of the make it seem more worthwhile. Would be nice if the weakness proc chance was a bit higher but doesn’t seem too bad. Guess we will know in BWE3.

Overall a lot of these changes were very needed and should be welcomed by players. A lot of people don’t realize what we will have to deal with once Revenants become more common. So these changes make a lot of sense if you think about it in that way. I don’t like how we lost some unique stuff to Mallyx and the breaker bar being removed completely instead of being fixed. Other than that it should be fun testing more of this next BWE.

(Hopefully I can get my PC back up and running by then)

I find the decision to remove the condition copy on the Mallyx elite a bit questionable considering that right now there is a meta build for Necro which is centered around condition transferring. I get how allies with condi removal might make it a little frustrating, but that should hardly deter people from running it anyway considering how much easier it is to apply conditions than it is to remove them from allies.

As it stands now you’ve pretty much effectively removed the Revenant’s best counter to condition builds from classes like Engi and Mesmer.

I never understood why people wanted Assassin’s Presence and Ferocious Strikes swapped. All that did was place two traits that are essentially the same in the same tier. Ferocious Strikes and Vicious Lacerations differ very little. +10% crit damage dual wielding (sword/x obviously) vs. up to +10% damage with a sword. The only reason I can see taking VL over FS is if you run mainly shield offhand as it doesn’t count as dual wielding (or does it?). I honestly would prefer VL to be changed entirely into something not damage focused.

I never heard anyone complain about having too many condis removed from them while running Mallyx. As people are suggesting, this legend is no longer unique from other condi professions. Honestly, what’s the point of having Pain Absorption if you can’t use it offensively with EtD? It just becomes a weaker Save Yourselves! without much option to remove those condis once Resistance wears out. There’s no more condition manipulation that the class was built around. I hope after reading the plethora of comments on this, you reconsider this change.

And I thought Shared Empowerment was op then you even buff it more. 25 might here I come.

Artaz.3819:

Can we now address the elephant in the room? Conditions.

With Mallyx being a portion of what it was before, how does Revenant reliably deal with conditions on self? I’m speaking totally from a PvP (and pseudo-solo WvW) play-style perspective.

Claiming that the Revenant needs “some weakness” means it will fall into the launched version of Warrior where it is totally owned and massacred by any opponent condition-heavy build (before Warrior received mega-buffs). Giving Staff a mobile condition cleanse (still at 15 cooldown) is only a small step towards fixing the underlying issue now that weapon autoattacks spam conditions.

As is, how can Revenant be useable in PvP with a condition heavy meta? Do not point to Ventari/Centaur stance and expect every Revenant to play support unless you go the way of the Herald line and give every specialized trait line a bonus F2, F3, F4 skill that supports the mechanics of Revenant when not in that particular legendary stance.

I think we just need some abilities that give us condi cleanse to be a bit stronger and adding a touch of condi cleanse to some skills. Nothing to major as we still need to be weak against something but at the same time not flat out horrible against.

IMO, the trait Cleansing Channel in the Invocation line should be buffed to remove two conditions instead of one. I also feel like the trait Assassins Annihilation should remove one condition every 10 seconds if you successfully siphon health from an enemy. This would make Assassins Annihilation feel more like a grand master trait. It will also give you a REAL choice between picking from all of the grand master traits in the Devestation line. Instead of everyone picking swift termination all the time because the other two feel really underwhelming. This will also give Shiro better access to a hp threatening condition while being within his ’’theme’’.

Hardening persistence in the Herald line could get a condition removal every second or third tick while a upkeep skill is being maintained. Then it could be moved to master tier and bolster fortification can be moved to adept since it doesn’t seem much like a master tier trait.

Just some ideas/suggestions without giving us insane access to condition removal. We can still have a bit of access here and there while still retaining our big weakness to being condition bombed.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Morfedel.4165:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Morfedel.4165:

Ice.5162:

Here’s a proposition: Disable condition removal from allies while under the Mallyx legend, tension solved. =) I agree it really ruins the uniqueness of the stance, it just seems like another condition spammer spec…

I don’t think thats something thats easily programmed in.

Then you spend more time on it jesus. They are not first year programmer students.

Wow, hostile much?

No, I simply dont get how you can think the devs can create such a huge game and have issues programming a functionality like that.

hell, I can think of an implementation for something similar right now:

stackable “square” buffs (class effect buffs) that correspond to the number of stacks and durations of the conditions.

these buffs are snapshotted at the cast of EtD and are what are used to apply conditions to the enemy rather than the conditions on the rev at that moment.

that would add a tactical consideration for when you want to snapshot your buffs, do you want to get more bleeds and torments for higher damage? or do you want to keep that blind and use it for defense?

since “square” buffs are nonremovable you don’t need to worry about cleanses killing your DPS until you leave demon mode.

that took me three minutes of thought and uses only preexisting mechanics.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Morfedel.4165:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Morfedel.4165:

Ice.5162:

Here’s a proposition: Disable condition removal from allies while under the Mallyx legend, tension solved. =) I agree it really ruins the uniqueness of the stance, it just seems like another condition spammer spec…

I don’t think thats something thats easily programmed in.

Then you spend more time on it jesus. They are not first year programmer students.

Wow, hostile much?

No, I simply dont get how you can think the devs can create such a huge game and have issues programming a functionality like that.

Simple, programming an entirely new behavior into the game is different than juggling numbers. I suspect they’re adding alacrity was not trivial. So then you want them to go ahead and add a new behavior when we’re just a few weeks from launch, and they’re still trying to balance and fix bugs and things like that. I don’t think they would reasonably have enough time to do that before October 23rd.

And by the way, I used to be a software developer myself. I was a contractor working in the Seattle area. I got out of the business and I’m in the medical field now, but I’m well aware how big systems can be very tricky when you decide to add entirely new behaviors. It’s not something you do quickly and easily.

And yes taking a crack at me calling me Jesus is a little hostile. Thank you very much.

Looks like mostly sensible changes, especially a ventari buff was necessary, but I am unhappy with the mallyx changes the elite skill was great as it was, and will now be useless with – 8 energy regeneration just to pulse out torment every 3 seconds. (10% stat buff is unnoticable compared to the stat buff on tornado, plague or rampage)

I realise that displacement was a big issue but it would probably have been fine if you had simply made it so that it could be countered by stability. With removing the effect completly the viability of the darkness field on mallyx is destroyed, as it has a very high energy cost for a very weak well (compared to necromancer or chronomancer wells). I believe keeping the displacement and making it counterable would have been a better call to preserve the uniqueness of the class. If people get disoriented for a second that is rather good as that is kind of what you want when you apply CC.

Removing the self applied conditions does not really matter to the class as the skills would have given you the condi resistant boon (via trait) anyway and with the bonus for conditions on self gone they are insignificant. Still i think selfapllied conditions was rather nice mechanic especialy in combination with the elite skill in it´s previous form which needs to be restored or heavily altered in some other way as with the darkness field and the elite rendered useless (due to energy management issues) the entire Mallyx legend is endangered in it´s viability.

Another thing that i forgot to post last BWE is that it would be really nice if the sword 5 would teleport you back regardless of whether you hit somebody with it or not

Conclusion: good changes, except for mallyx legend (pls rework pls)

Kronos.2560:

Just add either condition transfer on use of Mallyx elite or a conversion of conditions to boons while elites is active. Like 1 condi to boon/transfer per 1-3 seconds. That would fix the condition problem.

EtD needs to be an offensive skill, and condi to boon conversion would not fit that. If they are really so kitten worried about condi cleanses on the Rev, then maybe have any cleansed conditions copy onto your target.

I honestly think all utility skills (other than heal skills and the herald skills) should not have a CD. If someone wants to waste all their energy on one skill, let them; they made the conscious decision to do so and they should face the rewards/consequences. If you need to tweak the numbers for the skills then so be it. Like give Forced Engagement a 45 energy cost and no CD.

Morfedel.4165:

And yes taking a crack at me calling me Jesus is a little hostile. Thank you very much.

Wasn’t calling you jesus, it’s just an expression of frustration. Ah nevermind.

It’s been said already, numerous times. The easiest fix to the “doesn’t play nice with a team”-aspect would be to deny condition cleanses while in demon stance. That way Mallyx can retain its old functionality. Yay!

Edit: I guess it’s implied, but I really don’t like the changes to Mallyx at all.

This is the difficult part indeed. Legends need to be balanced as a whole due to not being able to slot stuff out. 1 bad skill and that’s 1 bad skill we are stuck with unline others.

Mallyx got hit in so many places

I just want mallyx to be clearly defined, unique and themed legends. Not generic stuff. Got warrior for that.

kankanKk.2748:

any chance to switch Nefarious Momentum and Vicious Lacerations?
You nerf sword because we cant get both sword trait.
These are no choose between 10% damage / 10% critical damage.

No, you misunderstand the change that has taken place. Assassin’s presence is now in the master tier. It is like Ferocious Strikes, only much better because it applies to your whole group and isn’t weapon specific. You don’t want a sword skill competing with that like it did before. If you were using vicious/ferocious before, use vicious/assassin’s (or ferocious/assassin’s) now. This is better by far.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Downed
Unfortunately, the displace mechanic was interacting poorly in the game as a whole. It was causing undesired behavior with NPCs and pathing, its strength varied by game mode, it was very disorienting to the receiving foe and other issues as well. We made the decision to remove displace and change the skills which had it on them. In this case we changed it to a knockback because it was similar functionality.

• Forceful Displacement: This skill no longer displaces foes, instead it will now knockback the foe 600 distance.

First off I want to say great job on the Ventari and Staff changes, sounds like good alterations all around, but I was really saddened to hear about the Mallyx changes, defiance, and displacement. Yes, Mallyx may create tension with a support boon character (which ironically I play myself quite often), but that simply encourages play and coordination which is not a bad thing.

Regarding Displacement, I understand how that ight cause problems for pathing so my suggestion would be to make it a super high velocity knockback where you cant see the playere (as in it is a knockback in the skill description and functionality, but still feels like displacement). This would give the best of both worlds as you could put the displacements back to their old animations and functionality, but might resolve the pathing issue.

Lastly, I feel like you removed something very interesting by taking the defiance bar out of crystal hibernation and all other player skills. I know it might be hard to balance, but there is a play and counterplay there which I feel is lost by it being removed. I think there are two things which could most definitely differentiate it from stability:

1) It takes a coordinated burst to dispel it rather than a trickle of CC skills, making it a bit stronger than stability
2) If you do mange to break it something bad should happen creating trade off costs

Now I know this wouldnt mesh well with the crystal hibernation at 25% trait, but you could just make it so the trait auto recharges crystal hibernation instead maybe.

These are are just ideas, but i really do believe a lot of these changes might’ve removed some of Revenant’s flair in those areas and maybe should be reconsidered.

Thanks for an awesome game!

After reading through out the whole tread I have to agree with people on Mallyx. It seems Mallyx pretty much lost everything it was known for. The fun and uniqueness factor seem to have been completely gone

Also the only CD change I don’t agree with is for Unyielding Anguish. The Jade Winds change seems acceptable since its an elite but Unyielding Anguish is a utility that costs 35 energy. If it is spammed then you are basically killing your selves and we need that double edged sword. Adds more thinking to skill usage.

The Unrelenting Assault CD increase is justified since 10 was low and 12 bring it more in line and still keep its power in pve.

As for people saying why CD and energy. A lot of skills still don’t have CD and the ones that got changed had great reasons(except Unyielding Anguish) Jade Winds is basically to protect you from your self and lets face it two Jade Winds back to back aren’t really needed unless you’re trolling. UA 2s CD increase was needed. We also got a lot CD reductions. I think we are fine with CDs now. If anything got CD increase then we will have a valid reason to argue against that.

Naleth.6214:

Now I know this wouldnt mesh well with the crystal hibernation at 25% trait, but you could just make it so the trait auto recharges crystal hibernation instead maybe.

this is a great idea

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Downed
Unfortunately, the displace mechanic was interacting poorly in the game as a whole. It was causing undesired behavior with NPCs and pathing, its strength varied by game mode, it was very disorienting to the receiving foe and other issues as well. We made the decision to remove displace and change the skills which had it on them. In this case we changed it to a knockback because it was similar functionality.

• Forceful Displacement: This skill no longer displaces foes, instead it will now knockback the foe 600 distance.

Quick note: I hope you didn’t make it a single target knockback… Because then it’s basically a watered down Guardian downed #2. Make it unblockable if it’s a single target, otherwise it’s worthless.

Gaaroth.2567:

Naleth.6214:

Now I know this wouldnt mesh well with the crystal hibernation at 25% trait, but you could just make it so the trait auto recharges crystal hibernation instead maybe.

this is a great idea

I second this.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

• Embrace the Darkness: Removed the self-applied torment. This skill no longer copies conditions to nearby foes. This skill will increase stats by 10% while active and pulse 6 seconds of torment every 1 second to nearby foes.

This change kill all interest to this stance and destroy an unique and fun playstyle.
Allies have a brain and you just prohibited a new tactic between allies.
ANET please go back on your decision.

Mosharn.8357:

After reading through out the whole tread I have to agree with people on Mallyx. It seems Mallyx pretty much lost everything it was known for. The fun and uniqueness factor seem to have been completely gone

Also the only CD change I don’t agree with is for Unyielding Anguish. The Jade Winds change seems acceptable since its an elite but Unyielding Anguish is a utility that costs 35 energy. If it is spammed then you are basically killing your selves and we need that double edged sword. Adds more thinking to skill usage.

The Unrelenting Assault CD increase is justified since 10 was low and 12 bring it more in line and still keep its power in pve.

As for people saying why CD and energy. A lot of skills still don’t have CD and the ones that got changed had great reasons(except Unyielding Anguish) Jade Winds is basically to protect you from your self and lets face it two Jade Winds back to back aren’t really needed unless you’re trolling. UA 2s CD increase was needed. We also got a lot CD reductions. I think we are fine with CDs now. If anything got CD increase then we will have a valid reason to argue against that.

I disagree with the added cooldowns because I think players should be able to make their own choices with those skills. And using Jade Winds twice can be really useful. Imagine in a sPvP 5v5 and the rev decides to use all his energy to stun the enemies for a long time while his allies go to town. Sure, the rev is limited in what he can do until his energy regenerates but he made the conscious decision to make a play that may reward them.

I for one am extremely happy with these changes. I’m glad what was fixed and made worthwhile is still going to be good.

Skyline Crash.6254:

Mosharn.8357:

After reading through out the whole tread I have to agree with people on Mallyx. It seems Mallyx pretty much lost everything it was known for. The fun and uniqueness factor seem to have been completely gone

Also the only CD change I don’t agree with is for Unyielding Anguish. The Jade Winds change seems acceptable since its an elite but Unyielding Anguish is a utility that costs 35 energy. If it is spammed then you are basically killing your selves and we need that double edged sword. Adds more thinking to skill usage.

The Unrelenting Assault CD increase is justified since 10 was low and 12 bring it more in line and still keep its power in pve.

As for people saying why CD and energy. A lot of skills still don’t have CD and the ones that got changed had great reasons(except Unyielding Anguish) Jade Winds is basically to protect you from your self and lets face it two Jade Winds back to back aren’t really needed unless you’re trolling. UA 2s CD increase was needed. We also got a lot CD reductions. I think we are fine with CDs now. If anything got CD increase then we will have a valid reason to argue against that.

I disagree with the added cooldowns because I think players should be able to make their own choices with those skills. And using Jade Winds twice can be really useful. Imagine in a sPvP 5v5 and the rev decides to use all his energy to stun the enemies for a long time while his allies go to town. Sure, the rev is limited in what he can do until his energy regenerates but he made the conscious decision to make a play that may reward them.

a 6 second stun doesn’t seem like skillful gameplay…
Spamming is never a positive thing for this game and doesn’t promote what the game actually wants you to accomplish. Also you aren’t limited to anything if you used Jade Winds twice. You just switch legends and go to town. Seems pretty cheesy and lame.

After attempting to use Embrace the Darkness to spread poison during the Vinewrath events and getting cleansed by other players constantly, thus preventing me from doing anything at all… I can see WHY the change to Embrace the Darkness is good in theory. There’s just so much condition cleanse in a group, even unintentionally (player just wants to cleanse himself, but only has AoE cleanse, light fields, ect) that even if you can convince the other players to try not to heal you, it probably won’t work. I just hate that it removed all the uniqueness from the skill.

I have to think there would have been another solution of some sort besides just changing it altogether. Disable condition cleansing while Embrace the Darkness is active or something, perhaps. Anything to let EtD keep the condition pulse aspect, because it was really interesting.

However, if its done and over, no chance of having the condition transfer considered again, get over it, then… the upkeep cost is now way too high (or the skill is to weak). It was worthwhile before because you could potentially be pulsing multiple conditions out to foes. But a single stack of Torment every second and a stat boost is in no way worth -8 energy. At this point it really needs to either gain more conditions or have the cost dropped down to probably -6 or even -5 so that you get more time out of it and can continue to use other skills for a while as you keep EtD active. As it is now, I’d probably rather just keep EtD off permanently, keep my energy recharge high, and rely on Unyielding Anguish for Torment without locking myself out of other stuff with a huge -8 upkeep.

In my opinion, most changes were great. But there are some that we need to discuss.

Like a lot of people said, the displacement changes removed a lot of the Revenant unique mechanics, such as removing the possibility of future elite specializations / professions using the same mechanic. The displacement added a lot of good plays to happen, like stopping an stomp, an Hundred Blades, an revive, etc.

Another bad thing (imo) is nerfing Mallyx’s Elite, since the feeling of copying all of the burning back to a burning Guardian was awesome. And I don’t see anything bad on other allies transferring conditions currently on the Revenant to the ally itself, since Revenant doesn’t have great condi removal. Plus, Revenants already have a lot of torment, they don’t need more.

The increase cooldown on the Sword 3 wasn’t needed. It was good how it was, 2 more seconds won’t do too much, actually, it’ll be only annoying. Maybe increasing the energy cost by a little bit would be a better change (I SAID A LITTLE BIT! xD)

I understand the addition of Cooldowns to certain skills, like Jade Winds, but in Unyielding Anguish, it just doesn’t make sense. Spamming Jade Winds is not really a problem, since if you use it 2 times in a row, you won’t have any energy left to cast another skill. Same thing with other skills. There’s no point on spamming them since you won’t have energy left for other skills.

Sword 2 should have an increase range, since it really easy to miss it because of the enemy distance. (Maybe increasing the range to 600?)

Other than that, most changes were great and I really appreciate all the time your giving up to reading our feedback. Thanks!

Felix Carter.4672:

Legendary Demon Stance didn’t need to be so drastically changed. It now no longer seems “corrupting” and interesting.

A simple solution would be to disable the ability of Allies to cure conditions from you while in Legendary Demon Stance. Whenever a condition would be removed, instead provide a boon like Resistance.

That’s a very good fix, I believe. 1-1,5s of Resistance to Revenant in Mallyx Legend for 1 condition removal effect instead of actually removing conditions.

It’s actually very easy – if you want to get more Resistance to keep on going with your conditions play, let allies give more Resistance to you.
Once you decide you’ve had enough – swap Legends. Coordinate and make decisions.

Far better solution that striking Mallyx with mentioned changes.

Mosharn.8357:

Skyline Crash.6254:

Mosharn.8357:

After reading through out the whole tread I have to agree with people on Mallyx. It seems Mallyx pretty much lost everything it was known for. The fun and uniqueness factor seem to have been completely gone

Also the only CD change I don’t agree with is for Unyielding Anguish. The Jade Winds change seems acceptable since its an elite but Unyielding Anguish is a utility that costs 35 energy. If it is spammed then you are basically killing your selves and we need that double edged sword. Adds more thinking to skill usage.

The Unrelenting Assault CD increase is justified since 10 was low and 12 bring it more in line and still keep its power in pve.

As for people saying why CD and energy. A lot of skills still don’t have CD and the ones that got changed had great reasons(except Unyielding Anguish) Jade Winds is basically to protect you from your self and lets face it two Jade Winds back to back aren’t really needed unless you’re trolling. UA 2s CD increase was needed. We also got a lot CD reductions. I think we are fine with CDs now. If anything got CD increase then we will have a valid reason to argue against that.

I disagree with the added cooldowns because I think players should be able to make their own choices with those skills. And using Jade Winds twice can be really useful. Imagine in a sPvP 5v5 and the rev decides to use all his energy to stun the enemies for a long time while his allies go to town. Sure, the rev is limited in what he can do until his energy regenerates but he made the conscious decision to make a play that may reward them.

a 6 second stun doesn’t seem like skillful gameplay…
Spamming is never a positive thing for this game and doesn’t promote what the game actually wants you to accomplish. Also you aren’t limited to anything if you used Jade Winds twice. You just switch legends and go to town. Seems pretty cheesy and lame.

The real problem here is that Jade winds had a ridiculously long stun to begin with. 3 Second aoe stun is absolutely nuts, the highest stun currently in game actualy, only comparable to warrior mace f1, and it’s aoe.

No fan of the embrace the darkness changes either (really like the unyielding anguish change though, since it was just dumb. ^^‘) and here’s why:

- Embrace the darkness worked really well together with pain absorbtion and the resistance from demonic defiance, both in teamfights and in 1v1’s against certain classes like D/D-Ele.
- It had very clear counterplays though, which aren’t easy to pull off, but had very good results: Boonstrip after pain absorption and maybe a stun and good positioning during embrace the darkness would render it almost useless and often kill the rev instantly.
-> it was a high-risk, high reward play and required good positioning, timing and teamplay both for the rev’s team to set it up properly and protect the rev from a quick counter, but also for the opposing team to react with a quick burst and to have the right classes there to counter the rev (Mesmer, Necro and/or another rev with boonstrip and decent burst).
- With this synergy, pain absoprtion could be used both offensively and defensively, which was IMHO a very good design of how the demon stance worked.

Now, pain absorption is purely defensive, the elite can just be toggled whenever you have enough energy and a few enemies around – you just took all the exciting thing out of it by changing the ult in this manner.

Why did you change it that way? was it too strong? I don’t think so, because as explained above there are very strong ways to counter it. Yes, it’s not gonna be easy for every random solo-Q’er to do it, but thats how it works in a game thats designed to be a teamgame.

I really question this decision and I think it was made hastily on the basis of a few whiners who complained about embrace being too strong, without thinking about how to actually play against it smartly for one second.

The only thing I found kinda weird about it, was that you could apply very strong conditions like fear for longer durations than they have been applied…. So why not just change the application from 3 seconds with 1 seconds pules, to 3 seconds with 3 second pulses? Or 1 second with 1 second pulses….

To all the considering the Mallyx changes to be bad, consider the pre change Legendary Demon Stance:

If you play a Mallyx Rev in any group scenario, you’re gonna be next to useless due to the constant condi clears your own allies give you. Your heal skill won’t do as much and your elite would only pulse out torment.

Roy may not have presented the best solution but no pragmatic person would play Mallyx as it was – Shiro or Glint was far more impactful to the team.

My solution would have been to make some of Mallyx’ skills heal and cleanse your allies and deal bonus torment to nearby foes when conditions are cleansed, scaling with your condition damage and duration. Mallyx’ elite could be what Roy made it now plus giving you bonuses when conditions are cleansed from you such as buffs or heals. Just throwing ideas out there.

Timtimtimmaah.4069:

To all the considering the Mallyx changes to be bad, consider the pre change Legendary Demon Stance:

If you play a Mallyx Rev in any group scenario, you’re gonna be next to useless due to the constant condi clears your own allies give you. Your heal skill won’t do as much and your elite would only pulse out torment.

Roy may not have presented the best solution but no pragmatic person would play Mallyx as it was – Shiro or Glint was far more impactful to the team.

Self-applied conditions had to go away.

Condi-transfering elite didn’t need to go away.

I think that’s what the community is generally arguing about in this thread.

Anet can easily add condi-transfering back to the elite while keeping its new function, and call it a day.

Timtimtimmaah.4069:

To all the considering the Mallyx changes to be bad, consider the pre change Legendary Demon Stance:

If you play a Mallyx Rev in any group scenario, you’re gonna be next to useless due to the constant condi clears your own allies give you. Your heal skill won’t do as much and your elite would only pulse out torment.

Well, that’s kinda the mindset that keeps dumbing down the game.

It’s a TEAMGAME. If I play a Rev in a teamsetting with mallyx, I talk to my team so they don’t condi-clear right before I pull the condis on me. Also, maybe the team wouldn’t run shoutgards and Shoutwar and other stuff with mass condi-cleanses.

This game shouldn’t be balanced with random solo-Q’ers in mind, because that doesn’t work.

In a full premade, Mallyx required skill, timing, communication and could be very useful, but it also allowed the opposing team to react to it and punish the rev and/or the team if they don’t set it up and execute it properly.

It was a beautiful skill with great synergies through and through and the fact that ANet now plans on removing it, shows me that they have no clue what they are doing in terms of PvP.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Timtimtimmaah.4069:

To all the considering the Mallyx changes to be bad, consider the pre change Legendary Demon Stance:

If you play a Mallyx Rev in any group scenario, you’re gonna be next to useless due to the constant condi clears your own allies give you. Your heal skill won’t do as much and your elite would only pulse out torment.

Roy may not have presented the best solution but no pragmatic person would play Mallyx as it was – Shiro or Glint was far more impactful to the team.

Self-applied conditions had to go away.

Condi-transfering elite didn’t need to go away.

I think that’s what the community is generally arguing about in this thread.

Anet can easily add condi-transfering back to the elite while keeping its new function, and call it a day.

Actually yeah, that’s pretty good on it’s own.

I like the changes, like all of them. Unsure about that herald trait buff.
Would like a bit less then 10 seconds cd on unyielding and jalis road, like 8 instead, to still feel that energy is the limiting factor. Speaking of long recharge – I dont like pain absorption much, what about giving it a long cd and adding some new effect,or at least more resistance.
To the poster discussing the (much needed, much wanted) buff to energy expulsion: the skill is limited by the need to resummon the tablet, so you multiple casting times that give it a little cd in effect. I think this skill should be fairly spammable, because sometimes you want to stay in ventari but theres no need to heal others so your energy goes to max.

PowerBottom.5796:

Timtimtimmaah.4069:

To all the considering the Mallyx changes to be bad, consider the pre change Legendary Demon Stance:

If you play a Mallyx Rev in any group scenario, you’re gonna be next to useless due to the constant condi clears your own allies give you. Your heal skill won’t do as much and your elite would only pulse out torment.

Well, that’s kinda the mindset that keeps dumbing down the game.

It’s a TEAMGAME. If I play a Rev in a teamsetting with mallyx, I talk to my team so they don’t condi-clear right before I pull the condis on me. Also, maybe the team wouldn’t run shoutgards and Shoutwar and other stuff with mass condi-cleanses.

This game shouldn’t be balanced with random solo-Q’ers in mind, because that doesn’t work.

In a full premade, Mallyx required skill, timing, communication and could be very useful, but it also allowed the opposing team to react to it and punish the rev and/or the team if they don’t set it up and execute it properly.

It was a beautiful skill with great synergies through and through and the fact that ANet now plans on removing it, shows me that they have no clue what they are doing in terms of PvP.

In small group WvW and PvP, sure. That level of communication should be possible. In large scale WvW that’s a lot more difficult to communicate since you’re likely to get pugs. It’s not about catering to “solo-Q’ers”, it’s about being realistic about the current metagame and you will have to deal with pugs.

So, mallyx was gutted… I understand the reasons behind it but rather than replace his gimmick with something else you simply opted to remove or water it down significantly. UA being reworked was entirely expected, however, that too removes something signifcant from Mallyx mostly.

Couldn’t you just have introduced a persistent buff or another mechanic that reduces or even prevents condition removal from external sources while channeling mallyx and then give him some limited control over this effect (for example, say it is not active for a short duration after the heal skill is used or something).

Edit: re torment suggestion, that seems reasonable if a bit complicated I mean if you were to implement that would the situation be then that when under the effects of torment, when applied by a revenant with this trait line, it might even be the correct “counter” for the target to move rather than to avoid moving (not counting condition cleanse).

The effect seems overly nuanced to be honest.